1196 replies to this topic

[Mjx]

Not exactly a haute cuisine question here, but a co-worker just posed an interesting question.

A different co-worker's child is selling those buckets of cookie dough as a fundraiser. The dough apparently contains raw eggs, so as much as the first coworker would like to just dig into a bucket of raw cookie dough, food poisoning is a concern for him.

He knows a little about sous vide, and that I've been dabbling lately, so he posed an interesting question to me just now. Would it be possible to seal the tub and drop it in the water bath to pasteurize? I know a raw egg can pasteurize at 57C in about 2 hours. Do you think it would be possible to do the same with dough without affecting the texture?

Unless it's a question of rising to the technical challenge (in which case, I think rotuts has it right), using pasteurized eggs would give more predictable results.

[ScottyBoy]

24hrs at 132 for a sirloin tip roast is too long. Meat turned out mushy.

Will try 12 next time.

I always do 12, perfect.

Actually have 2 Snake River Farms kobe tips in the bath right now, timer goes off in 54 minutes

[jmolinari]

24hrs at 132 for a sirloin tip roast is too long. Meat turned out mushy.

Will try 12 next time.

I always do 12, perfect.

Actually have 2 Snake River Farms kobe tips in the bath right now, timer goes off in 54 minutes

Thanks good to know. It was a good lesson in seeing how a piece of meat wont technically overcook sous vide, it can still change by long cooking to the point where eating it isn't that pleasant. It had a strange texture and almost felt dry, even though it was nicely medium.... Odd, and instructive.

[rotuts]

for Tri-Tip Ive found 15 at 131 works. thats Supermarket Beef not Kobe

and TT are a little tougher than ST's

so 12 sounds right to me too.

[Robert Jueneman]

I do practically no baking, so I can't answer the texture question.

However, the mass of the cookie dough would certainly slow down the heating process. Imagine if you were trying to cook a rib roast of the same size as the tub of dough -- it might well take more than the six hour maximum recommended time (depending on the size and shape of the tub), and therefore wouldn't be safe.

I would offer to pasteurize a couple of dozen eggs for the second coworker, instead.

[Justin Uy]

I do practically no baking, so I can't answer the texture question.

However, the mass of the cookie dough would certainly slow down the heating process. Imagine if you were trying to cook a rib roast of the same size as the tub of dough -- it might well take more than the six hour maximum recommended time (depending on the size and shape of the tub), and therefore wouldn't be safe.

I would offer to pasteurize a couple of dozen eggs for the second coworker, instead.

Thanks for all the responses! That was quick.

It was more of a technical challenge/wondering type of question. I doubt he'll be asking me to pasteurize a bunch of eggs for him to make his own "safe for eating" cookie dough, but definitely good to know. :)

[jmolinari]

You can buy, at least here in Atlanta, pasteurized eggs. They look and act entirely identical to unpasteurized.

[Robert Jueneman]

You can buy, at least here in Atlanta, pasteurized eggs. They look and act entirely identical to unpasteurized.

Whole Foods generally carries them. I haven't seen them in more conventional grocery stores. But if I needed some, I would do it myself.

[jmolinari]

My publix carries them. I've made them at home following Douglas' formula, but i found that following his there is a small amount of albumin that ends up cooked...whereas the purchased ones are completely indistinguishable.

[Smokalicious]

I tried to research pasteurizing eggs on the web to no avail. The methods used by large processors are closely held & patented trade secrets. That being said, eggs pasteurized using Douglas' method have been perfectly acceptable for every purpose so far, including delicious edible cookie dough.

[jmolinari]

I tried to research pasteurizing eggs on the web to no avail. The methods used by large processors are closely held & patented trade secrets. That being said, eggs pasteurized using Douglas' method have been perfectly acceptable for every purpose so far, including delicious edible cookie dough.

Somethign is either a trade secret or patented...it would be hard to be both since for it to become a patent everything has to be disclosed.

anyhow...the paseurization of shell eggs is readable in patents..i just read one yesterday.

Take a look here:
http://www.google.com/search?q=shell+egg+pasteurization&btnG=Search+Patents&tbm=pts&tbo=1&hl=en

[ScottyBoy]

for Tri-Tip Ive found 15 at 131 works. thats Supermarket Beef not Kobe

This is my tri tip @ 135 for 18 hours. It was for a group that wanted closer to medium. It was cut with a fork tender.

[Smokalicious]

I tried to research pasteurizing eggs on the web to no avail. The methods used by large processors are closely held & patented trade secrets. That being said, eggs pasteurized using Douglas' method have been perfectly acceptable for every purpose so far, including delicious edible cookie dough.

Somethign is either a trade secret or patented...it would be hard to be both since for it to become a patent everything has to be disclosed.

anyhow...the paseurization of shell eggs is readable in patents..i just read one yesterday.

Take a look here:
http://www.google.com/search?q=shell+egg+pasteurization&btnG=Search+Patents&tbm=pts&tbo=1&hl=en

This was over a year ago & I don't recall any Google patent results. At the time, patent results universally required payment to view. In any case, my main point was to emphasize the suitability of eggs pasteurized using Douglas Baldwin's method.

[Todd in Chicago]

ScottyBoy....

That shore looks good! Is that chimichurri? How did you crust it?

I've had SRF at a restaurant here in Chicago before (Bandera) and it was fabulous.

Jealous... ;-)

Todd in Chicago

[ScottyBoy]

Yup good eye chimichurri.

I charred it on a huge bed of smoldering hickory wood chips when it came out of the bath. I find it gets extra smoke flavor without getting too much of the over cooked ring around the outside.

[jaymer]

I cooked several TOP INSIDE ROUND pieces, 1 inch thick, and at 12 hours they came out YUCKY mushy. Took one bite, couldn't eat it and spit it out. Tried several times.

Other foods have turned out fine (incl. eggs), so I'm not questioning my temps. or equipment accuracy. Unfortunately, I didn't document this and its been a month or so and I can't remember. But I'm sure it was at 125F or 135F, but I remember the meat looked a lot more cooked than it should.

Is there a reason this cut wouldn't work as well as Sirloin?
thx
jaymer...

[e_monster]

I cooked several TOP INSIDE ROUND pieces, 1 inch thick, and at 12 hours they came out YUCKY mushy. Took one bite, couldn't eat it and spit it out. Tried several times.

Other foods have turned out fine (incl. eggs), so I'm not questioning my temps. or equipment accuracy. Unfortunately, I didn't document this and its been a month or so and I can't remember. But I'm sure it was at 125F or 135F, but I remember the meat looked a lot more cooked than it should.

Is there a reason this cut wouldn't work as well as Sirloin?
thx
jaymer...

Mushy means it was cooked too long. By the way, 125F would not be a safe temperature for that length of time.

If it was too mushy don't cook it so long. I would find 12 hours too long for most sirloins -- but everyone has their own preference. What I consider mushy, someone else might think was tender to perfection.

Best,

E

[Anna N]

Did a half bone-in leg of lamb for just under 24 hours at 55C - WOW! Don't think I will ever cook lamb another way again. I dried it off just before serving and gave it a quick sear. It literally melted in the mouth being being in the least mushy. The leftovers - oh so very few - are equally good this morning.

[slkinsey]

I cooked several TOP INSIDE ROUND pieces, 1 inch thick, and at 12 hours they came out YUCKY mushy. Took one bite, couldn't eat it and spit it out. Tried several times.

Top inside round is a specialty tender cut separated from the round. Think of it as being like tenderloin, only leaner, not quite as flavorful and not quite as tender. Not a very exciting cut of meat, but that's why it's inexpensive! I would think it would be best in a kind of scallopini application, with a sauce or crust or other ingredients providing much of the flavor. Also probably good cooked whole to temperature, then chilled and sliced for roast beef sandwiches.

This is not a cut of meat that you should subject to a long cooking time. You have to treat it like a tender cut, and 12 hours is way too long. For tender cuts you want to cook them only for the length of time it will take to come to temperature. Otherwise they have a tendency to be, well, mushy.

[rotuts]

Im going to have to try again the SV lamb. I did some at 131 but I cant find my notes for that

mine turned out mushy so i must have SV'd it too long.

love rare leg of lamb

[RyanC]

Hello everyone, first post here-

I wanted to share my success story with using a propane weed-burner for searing off sous vide food. The weed-burner is a big 500,000 BTU torch that you can buy at home depot for $50 and hook it up to a regular 20 lb propane tank like those normally used for propane grills. Previously I tried a plumbing torch or pan searing (I have a DCS/Paykill commercial stove) and like most SV searing I wasn't too pleased with the amount of grey area in the food. Especially because I like a really thick crust.

The big torch and some spray oil works wonderfully, so far I've done steaks, short ribs, salmon, chicken breasts and all of them can get some great crust without over cooking the inside, or having to ice-bath the meat and then wonder if you are going to be serving in cold. With this technique you can do thin burgers, skirt steaks, sliders etc all exactly how you want in and out.

If anyone is going to try here is my advice; A) outdoors only, this is a very big flame, B) Use it on a grill that is clean, the torch will through a lot of embers around your yard if you aren't careful, C) Make sure to really move it around a lot so that you get an even sear, D) So far it's working best to sear just with salt or suger and then add any other spices and give it one last quick blast, same thing with cheese on a burger, it comes out like croque-monsior...

Here is me doing some sliders...

[RyanC]

I have,

But I figure why not toss a cold smoke generator in there. The first test wasn't overwhelmingly promising because just like SV or BBQ you want the meat to get out of the danger zone in less than 4 hours. My 1 inch thick ribeyes were only at 105F after 3.5 hours in the Sous-Smoker box (with air temp PID regulated @ 130F).

They were also very smokey. I think it will work better for finishing and still holding the meat, next I'm going to try SV/Smoke-Vide(or whatever)/sear.

My SVM pid held the internal temp of the smoker box right at 130 using a hair-dryer...

[Paul Bacino]

Wow...sounds interesting...i uzea weber chimmney charcoal stater...alot

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[Neil Smith]

I wanted to share my success story with using a propane weed-burner for searing off sous vide food. The weed-burner is a big 500,000 BTU torch that you can buy at home depot for $50 and hook it up to a regular 20 lb propane tank like those normally used for propane grills.

Welcome!

I have no sensible comments to make, other than to say that it must be so much fun to watch you doing that!

[&roid]

Hello everyone, first post here-

I wanted to share my success story with using a propane weed-burner for searing off sous vide food. The weed-burner is a big 500,000 BTU torch that you can buy at home depot for $50 and hook it up to a regular 20 lb propane tank like those normally used for propane grills. Previously I tried a plumbing torch or pan searing (I have a DCS/Paykill commercial stove) and like most SV searing I wasn't too pleased with the amount of grey area in the food. Especially because I like a really thick crust.

The big torch and some spray oil works wonderfully, so far I've done steaks, short ribs, salmon, chicken breasts and all of them can get some great crust without over cooking the inside, or having to ice-bath the meat and then wonder if you are going to be serving in cold. With this technique you can do thin burgers, skirt steaks, sliders etc all exactly how you want in and out.

If anyone is going to try here is my advice; A) outdoors only, this is a very big flame, B) Use it on a grill that is clean, the torch will through a lot of embers around your yard if you aren't careful, C) Make sure to really move it around a lot so that you get an even sear, D) So far it's working best to sear just with salt or suger and then add any other spices and give it one last quick blast, same thing with cheese on a burger, it comes out like croque-monsior...

Here is me doing some sliders...

Wow! Just WOW.

I want one of those so much. Wonder if I can get something in the UK like that... Actually, I'm in New Jersey at the moment, maybe I'll try and find a Home Depot, would this fit in a suitcase? How big is it?

[RyanC]

Wow! Just WOW.

I want one of those so much. Wonder if I can get something in the UK like that... Actually, I'm in New Jersey at the moment, maybe I'll try and find a Home Depot, would this fit in a suitcase? How big is it?

It's about 3 feet long, so it would be pretty big for a suitcase but it should fit in a larger one.

Edited by heidih, 25 October 2011 - 08:12 AM.
Fix quote tags

[RyanC]

Wow...sounds interesting...i uzea weber chimmney charcoal stater...alot

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Yeah I used to use the charcoal chimney ala good eat's tuna, it works well except I don't like having to use that much charcoal for a few seconds of searing, and it's a pain to do big cuts. Incidentally this torch is an awesome way to get charcoals up and going, you can get a whole bed of coals red hot in about a minute.

[e_monster]

I have,

But I figure why not toss a cold smoke generator in there. The first test wasn't overwhelmingly promising because just like SV or BBQ you want the meat to get out of the danger zone in less than 4 hours. My 1 inch thick ribeyes were only at 105F after 3.5 hours in the Sous-Smoker box (with air temp PID regulated @ 130F).

They were also very smokey. I think it will work better for finishing and still holding the meat, next I'm going to try SV/Smoke-Vide(or whatever)/sear.

My SVM pid held the internal temp of the smoker box right at 130 using a hair-dryer...

Unless your relative humidity is 100%, your meat won't get to 130F if your oven is at 130F when cooking in air. I tried for a long-time (unsuccessfully) to execute Heston Blumenthal's recipe for perfect roast chicken. His recipe has you cooking the chicken in a 140F oven until the chicken's internal temp gets to 140F. I tried several times with different types of ovens that I was controlling with a PID -- and always noticed a temperature stall about 20F to 30F less than my target temperature. It wasn't until a discussion of the brisket stall phenomenon that I realized that the problem is evaporative cooling. When cooking in air, you have moisture evaporating from the surface of what you are are cooking -- which results in cooling at the surface. This is the famous dry bulb/wet bulb phenomemon.

In short, if you are cooking in air when there is less than 100% R.H., you won't get the temperature rising to the oven temperature unless there is absolutely no moisture on the surface of the food. So, for a particular target temperature, you need to have a higher air temperature than your target. It will take some trial and error to find the right temperature since the precise needed temperature depends on quite a few conditions.

It is quite possible that to reach your desired 130F internal temperature in less than four hours that you might need an oven temp of 150F to 160F.

It might also work to make the smoker humid by having a pan of water on the heating element. I haven't tried that but I did notice that I could get closer to the target temp when I used a PID'ed roaster oven by having some water at the bottom of the roaster.

[RyanC]

E_monster-

Interesting. I'm glad you figured out what I was talking about, I meant to quote another post but I hit the wrong button.

So 100% R.H. would steam the meat though right? I'm not sure my little plastic box with pid regulated hair dryer would be either safe or have enough power to hit 150-160, and also 3.5 hours for the rib-eyes was really too smokey. I have some baby back ribs in the SV bath now and I'm going to try to smoke them for 2 hours before I sear. Eventually I do want to make an insulated smoker with a cold smoke generator that works independently from the heat source. Right now I'm using the tin can/soldering iron CSG and I was thinking about a well insulated wood box with concrete board on the inside and a commercial heat gun for a heat source.

One thing I'm trying to learn about with smoking is understanding what temperatures allow the most smokey flavor to get into the food. Are there any guidelines for that?

[jaymer]

I cooked several TOP INSIDE ROUND pieces, 1 inch thick, and at 12 hours they came out YUCKY mushy. Took one bite, couldn't eat it and spit it out. Tried several times.

Also probably good cooked whole to temperature, then chilled and sliced for roast beef sandwiches.

I had looked at various SV recipes and did not find Top Round, so I tried it like other cuts. I'll reduce the time. Since we usually have it around, it made sense to try it.

We ALWAYS have raw brisket, but I can't seem to make myself SV it - our smoked brisket is just too awesome. It is on my list to do though, probably smoked/rubbed first then into a bag for SV.

We use top round for exactly what you said - smoke it and slice it for our deli sandwiches.
thx for the reply
jaymer...