Jump to content


Welcome to the eG Forums!

These forums are a service of the Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, a 501c3 nonprofit organization dedicated to advancement of the culinary arts. Anyone can read the forums, however if you would like to participate in active discussions please join the Society.

Photo

Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment, 2011


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
1196 replies to this topic

#721 ScottyBoy

ScottyBoy
  • society donor
  • 1,251 posts
  • Location:United States

Posted 15 August 2011 - 06:04 PM

Arzak was the best, I'm very jealous.

Edited by ScottyBoy, 15 August 2011 - 06:05 PM.

Sleep, bike, cook, feed, repeat...
Oakland, CA
My Place
My eGullet Foodblog
eG Ethics Signatory

#722 rotuts

rotuts
  • participating member
  • 4,697 posts
  • Location:Boston MA

Posted 19 August 2011 - 07:44 AM

I thought Id report back on my Tri-Tip experiments so far:

from a single TT i cut three pieces along the grain about equal size. placed in SV bags with Sauer's Prime Rib and Roast Seasoning Rub so that I would cut them against the grain:

10 hr 12 hr 14 hr at 131 F.

10 was tasty but a little too chewy 12 was better, but only a little bit 14 was excellent: not mushy bright red color excellent RB flavor with still a little tooth on it

I used the "drippings" for an excellent RB French dip sandwich or what ever the current name for that is.

I did a 24 hr earlier and as respondents noted: it was a little mealy and mushy. the bright red color was gone.

an OK sandwich, but not up to par for this group. it had lost that Big Beef Flavor, and was just Cow. not unlike the beef sliced for you from the deli, which is probably from the round.

doing a BIg SV tonight with 4 TT's == 17 SV bags. one TT will be cut in 4 not 3.

very tempted to leave a few bags to 16 hrs.

pushing my luck the 14 hr TT was some of the best RB ive had. Big Beef Flavor, some tooth,

Ive had this success a few time with shoulder cuts, but I think those went 48-72 hrs.

#723 PedroG

PedroG
  • participating member
  • 488 posts
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 19 August 2011 - 05:32 PM

PID Tuning Guide Release 2

Finally, the new version of the PID tuning guide (authored by Frank Hsu, Peter Black, Robert Jueneman and Peter Gruber aka PedroG) is available for download. It contains new chapters:

  • Ar: Integral Limit aka Anti – reset windup
  • Output power Limit %
  • Autotuning percentage
  • Impact of Thermodynamic Properties of a cooker on PID-Tuning
It is copyright protected by FreshMealsSolutions, but Frank Hsu of FreshMealsSolutions explicitly gave permission to make the guide available for download in the eGullet forum, but not for publication on other websites (except his own of course) or otherwise.

Attached File  PID-tuning-guide_R2_V006.pdf   270.31KB   2142 downloads
Peter F. Gruber aka Pedro
eG Ethics Signatory

#724 rotuts

rotuts
  • participating member
  • 4,697 posts
  • Location:Boston MA

Posted 20 August 2011 - 03:36 AM

thanks PG !

#725 Simon Lewinson

Simon Lewinson
  • participating member
  • 93 posts

Posted 22 August 2011 - 04:20 AM

Hi all, I have been sous-vide cooking for a few months now with great results but I now have a question for the learned chefs.

I have been given a piece of venison that came from a large, older animal. This animal was a sambar deer and the meat is renowned as being very difficult to cook. I got approximately 6Kg of the backstrap,which I have portiuoned into pieces of aabout 750g. These were seasoned with salt, pepper and dried gbarlic and packed with a glug of extra virgin olive oil. They hhave had 72 hours at 54C (130F) and are still quite tough. The flavour is excellent, is rare and extremely moist but very cchewy.

I have put the remaining pieces back for a longer soak but would love comments and thoughts on how long to leave it in for.

My equipment is basic - a 5L deep fryer with a TET612 PID controller. I vacuum packed the meat quite hard - I have a Chinese chamber sealer that will just boil room temperature water after 60 seconds.

I am tempted to leave it in for another 48 hours but do not want to ruin it.

Thanks in advance

Simon

#726 Genkinaonna

Genkinaonna
  • participating member
  • 577 posts
  • Location:Just west of beautiful Portland, Oregon

Posted 22 August 2011 - 08:18 AM

I made toasted almond ice cream base from The Perfect Scoop in the SVS. I've NEVER had creme anglaise turn out as well as that batch did. I was seriously tempted to eat it over peaches and not freeze it at all. It cooked at 82C for an hour, then icebath for 30 min and then in the fridge overnight before freezing.
If you ate pasta and antipasto, would you still be hungry? ~Author Unknown

#727 &roid

&roid
  • participating member
  • 162 posts
  • Location:Manchester, UK

Posted 23 August 2011 - 08:03 AM

I’ve got some time off work this week so have been going mad trying out new cooking things. Yesterday was a bit of a disaster: apparently “Essence of Rennet” is NOT the same thing as “Rennet” (it’s a rubbish, watered down version for making puddings, not the sort of thing to be adding to 4l of really nice organic milk when attempting my first go at homemade mozzarella). Any way, undeterred, today saw the arrival of some proper rennet and, far more excitingly, my Sous-Vide Supreme! I think the cheese making might keep till tomorrow...

Having spent the last few months desperately waiting for my copy of Modernist Cuisine to arrive I finally bit the bullet and got a water bath. Am really looking forward to some of the things I’ll be able to cook in this contraption, off the top of my head: scrambled eggs, perfect poached salmon, mi-cuit salmon, slow cooked short ribs, beef cheek pastrami, pigs cheek anything, Onsen eggs, foie gras, twice-cooked scallops, duck confit, egg custard, brisket... I’m giving up work, I won’t have time for it with all this nice stuff to make.

So, what was I going to do for my first ever sous-vide meal? I hadn’t really planned on having the SVS for a while so had to just wander around the supermarket looking for inspiration, I wanted something that would be fairly quick to cook (the 72-hour tough cuts will have to wait) and I knew I wanted to do some mashed potatoes with it. So, in the end I came up with the following: Chicken breast with tarragon and butter, retrograded potatoes and chicory with orange and thyme. Not the most adventurous first foray into sous-vide but hopefully achievable and it will give me a good idea where to start from with simple things like lean meat/vegetables.

So far the potatoes have been peeled, sliced into thinnish sections, vac-packed with a little water and put in for an hour at 66C. After they finish I’ll chill them in an ice bath and fridge them till later. Their peelings have been fried in a good chunk of butter (probably about 100g) until they looked (and tasted) like posh crisps. I love it when cooking stuff gives you a tasty by-product! The butter was then strained and fridged, ready to be added to the mash later.

photo 1.JPG
photo 2.JPG
photo 5.JPG
photo 2.JPG
photo 3.JPG
photo 4.JPG

The chicory have been sliced in half lengthways and sealed in a bag with some thyme and a little bit of orange juice, some agave nectar and some salt and pepper. Similarly the chicken breasts are sitting in the fridge sealed up with some butter and tarragon, having been brined for about 45 mins in a 5% salt solution. I’ve gone very sparingly with the fresh herbs in both of these as I’ve read that they can easily overpower things when cooked this way... we’ll see whether I’ve gone easy enough!

photo 1.JPG
photo 5.JPG

More later... (I hope!)

#728 rotuts

rotuts
  • participating member
  • 4,697 posts
  • Location:Boston MA

Posted 23 August 2011 - 08:12 AM

thanks for showing all those steps (above)

look forward to the rest.

#729 &roid

&roid
  • participating member
  • 162 posts
  • Location:Manchester, UK

Posted 23 August 2011 - 02:00 PM

That was good. I mean really, really good. I'm stunned at how good a simple, boring chicken breast can taste. Very, very happy with it :).

So here's the rest of my first adventure in Sous-viding:

The chicory cooked for just over an hour at 85C, pulled them out and they felt perfectly tender so left them bagged up while I got on with the rest. I cooled the water down with some ice cubes and when it got to 61C (for some, inexplicable reason I found the idea of 61C instead of 60C felt "safer"!) the chicken went in. From the tables I'd found it looked like 1.75 - 2 hours would be fine, in the end they stayed in for nearer 3 as wife and child were late getting in (have a look at my homemade mozzarella thread for more whinging about this!).

The potatoes had spent a good 40 minutes in an ice bath then went into the fridge until I was ready to go with them. I was following a recipe from the excellent Kayahara blog which suggested 25 minutes at a hard boil would be all that was needed to get them ready to puree. Unfortunately my tubers were a LOT more resistant than that... another 30 minutes more resistant. Unfortunately even then they ended up quite grainy, a beautiful flavour from the fried peelings (note to self: definitely do this again) and a lot less fat than normal pommes puree. Not really sure what the issue was here - whether they just needed more cooking after the retrograding, a longer chill period.

photo 3.JPG



To finish the chicken and chicory I heated two pans for a good 10 minutes, they both had a lovely texture but looked a little anaemic to say the least:

photo 1.JPG
photo 4.JPG



The chicory I just sautéed in a little oil. I was really surprised with how quickly they coloured, it was one of the things that worried me about searing after sous-viding: even with a good heavy pan on my hottest burner raw food seems to take a while to colour. I was quite concerned that I would end up undoing all the good work of a water bath setup by having to overcook things just to get them nice and brown. Safe to say there was no need to stress about this, warm cooked food is obviously - in retrospect - a different prospect to cold raw food.

photo 2.JPG




Just to squeeze another new technique into today's adventures I used one of Douglas Baldwin's tips and brushed the chicken with some glucose syrup let down with a little water, again it was amazing how quickly I was able to get colour into the meat. There was absolutely no change in the subsurface, even with a decent level of browning to the skin.

So, the finished dish. Not the most exciting looking thing I've ever made (all a bit "brown" isn't it?), but my god it tasted good:

photo 5.JPG



Honestly, I have never eaten chicken breast that tasted so "chicken-y". Both of us said this exact thing with the first bite, the herb flavour was just right (I'm glad I used such a small piece of tarragon). The texture though was unbelievable. I know there are scores of posts saying this exact thing but it's not really something that reading about a new way of cooking food can prepare you for, a normally dry boring meat cooked so evenly, so perfectly, tender, juicy and with more flavour than I'd ever had in even the best chicken I'd had before.

Overall I'm delighted with my first foray into sous-vide. Can't wait to try some of the amazing things I've been thinking of for so long...

#730 gdenby

gdenby
  • participating member
  • 144 posts

Posted 23 August 2011 - 04:11 PM

(snip)

The potatoes had spent a good 40 minutes in an ice bath then went into the fridge until I was ready to go with them. I was following a recipe from the excellent Kayahara blog which suggested 25 minutes at a hard boil would be all that was needed to get them ready to puree. Unfortunately my tubers were a LOT more resistant than that... another 30 minutes more resistant. Unfortunately even then they ended up quite grainy, a beautiful flavour from the fried peelings (note to self: definitely do this again) and a lot less fat than normal pommes puree. Not really sure what the issue was here - whether they just needed more cooking after the retrograding, a longer chill period.(snip)


I, too, have had a similar problem with retrograded 'taters. It seems that the 2nd cooking takes as much or more time than a first cooking without retrograding. I wonder if it is not a matter of perception? That is, the altered starch really feels different on the tongue, and so needs to be cooked as long as would ordinarily turn the mash to glue.

And, aren't you happy you bought the sous-vide rig? As you said, all that brown stuff, but it tasted so good!

#731 Genkinaonna

Genkinaonna
  • participating member
  • 577 posts
  • Location:Just west of beautiful Portland, Oregon

Posted 23 August 2011 - 04:19 PM

Chicken breasts are one of my favorite things to do in the SVS. I know they're pedestrian, not so glamorous, and not requiring transglutimase or other fun chemicals, but it's hard to beat perfectly cooked chicken as an ingredient in about fifty million recipes...
If you ate pasta and antipasto, would you still be hungry? ~Author Unknown

#732 HowardLi

HowardLi
  • participating member
  • 410 posts

Posted 23 August 2011 - 06:35 PM

Can anybody in the last few posts offer their thoughts on how to solve the graininess issue next time?

#733 &roid

&roid
  • participating member
  • 162 posts
  • Location:Manchester, UK

Posted 24 August 2011 - 11:53 AM

Decided to try some steak today, got a nice thick sirloin from my local butcher, their beef is ok but not really up there with the best I've had (from, say East London Steak Co.).

It was about 40mm thick so I packed it up with some salt and pepper and a sprig of rosemary:

photo-3.JPG



Cooked at 54.5C for what ended up being 6 hours, glazed with some glucose syrup and tiny pinch of bicarb:

photo 2.JPG
photo 3.JPG



It had a lovely even medium rare finish but have to say, after yesterday's revelatory chicken breast experience, it was a bit... meh. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't bad, just felt like it had gone a bit mushy and wasn't all that exciting. I'm sure this has something to do with the 6 hours it ended up having, will definitely go for nearer 3-4 next time for this thickness of meat. Also, I want to try it with a REALLY good steak, something with a bit more marbling should be more interesting.

Any way, onwards and upwards, tomorrow I'll try some scallops and mi cuit salmon - what are people's feelings on temperatures for the salmon?

#734 jackal10

jackal10
  • participating member
  • 5,036 posts

Posted 24 August 2011 - 12:05 PM

See chart here: http://www.cookingis...res-the-charts/

I like 50C/122F because I like my salmon to look cooked rather than mi-cuit, but note this temperature is too low to pasteurise

#735 slkinsey

slkinsey
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 11,089 posts
  • Location:New York, New York

Posted 24 August 2011 - 01:41 PM

Can anybody in the last few posts offer their thoughts on how to solve the graininess issue next time?

After you rice the potatoes, work the puree through a tamis or fine mesh strainer. The retrogradation technique doesn't work well with a coarse-textured potato mash, precisely because of the graininess issue.
Samuel Lloyd Kinsey

#736 HowardLi

HowardLi
  • participating member
  • 410 posts

Posted 24 August 2011 - 08:21 PM

Can anybody in the last few posts offer their thoughts on how to solve the graininess issue next time?

After you rice the potatoes, work the puree through a tamis or fine mesh strainer. The retrogradation technique doesn't work well with a coarse-textured potato mash, precisely because of the graininess issue.

Trying to understand what you're saying here... the retrograde doesn't effect a smoother texture if the potatoes are not mashed finely enough? Isn't that sort of... obvious? Or am I missing something?

#737 &roid

&roid
  • participating member
  • 162 posts
  • Location:Manchester, UK

Posted 25 August 2011 - 02:36 AM

Can anybody in the last few posts offer their thoughts on how to solve the graininess issue next time?

After you rice the potatoes, work the puree through a tamis or fine mesh strainer. The retrogradation technique doesn't work well with a coarse-textured potato mash, precisely because of the graininess issue.


I'm also a bit confused about this, are the grains that I can feel actually the grains of starch? So without passing through a Tamis retrograding will give a MORE grainy mash, rather than a smoother one because it keeps these grains whole and stops them bursting?

#738 slkinsey

slkinsey
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 11,089 posts
  • Location:New York, New York

Posted 25 August 2011 - 05:23 AM

Retrograding the at starch is not designed to help with graininess. Traditional potato puree is not grainy at all. Retrograding is meant to help with the gluiness that can result when you work a potato puree.
Samuel Lloyd Kinsey

#739 paulpegg

paulpegg
  • society donor
  • 195 posts

Posted 25 August 2011 - 01:13 PM

We were going up to Vermont this week and I decided to bring along a SV leg of lamb. I had a 5 pound bone in leg of lamb in the freezer so last week I somewhat defrosted it on Thursday, sprinkled it with salt and pepper, wrapped a half dozen garlic cloves and a few sprigs of thyme in paper and bagged the lot to rest in the refrigerator for a day. Friday I put it in the beer cooler version of my DIY SV system at 55C. Sunday I took it out (54 hours), chilled it in ice water and refrigerated overnight. Monday we drove to VT and I brought along the stock pot version of my system to reheat the meat. The bone stuck out of the pot a little but that was of no concern. I reheated it for 3 hours, seared it in his 450F oven for 10 minutes and served it to my host and guests. It was out of this world! Tender, nicely medium rare through and through and the flavor was top notch. I boiled the bag juices and strained them through a paper towel. They were nicely flavored and almost clear. We didn't really need them since the meat was so good by itself. The next day we made lamb sandwiches. The juices had gelled and I smeared one side of the bread with this gel along with the left over lamb. Another home run.

Sorry I didn't take any pictures.

PS: My son gave me a copy of Modernist Cuisine for my birthday/anniversary (75/50) last week. This will most definitely have an impact on the things I do from now on. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks!

Edited by paulpegg, 25 August 2011 - 01:18 PM.

Paul Eggermann
Vice President, Secretary and webmaster
Les Marmitons of New Jersey

#740 PedroG

PedroG
  • participating member
  • 488 posts
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 25 August 2011 - 05:59 PM

I just encountered a nice idea as a supplement to my sous vide thickness ruler on Jason Logsdons souvidecooking.com: use a sewing gauge as a sliding measure. Even better but more expensive would be an X-Ray Thickness Caliper.
Peter F. Gruber aka Pedro
eG Ethics Signatory

#741 bmdaniel

bmdaniel
  • participating member
  • 482 posts

Posted 25 August 2011 - 06:08 PM

Why not something like this:

http://www.harborfre...CFRJX7Aod0UyENg

#742 PedroG

PedroG
  • participating member
  • 488 posts
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 26 August 2011 - 06:55 AM

Jaws are too short (1-9/16").
Peter F. Gruber aka Pedro
eG Ethics Signatory

#743 bmdaniel

bmdaniel
  • participating member
  • 482 posts

Posted 26 August 2011 - 08:20 AM

Jaws are too short (1-9/16").


Having a hard time envisioning common use scenarios where that is going to come into play? At least for myself, chops, eggs, etc. seems like it would be pretty handy and cheap (can get even better deal with free shipping on amazon).

#744 paulpegg

paulpegg
  • society donor
  • 195 posts

Posted 26 August 2011 - 09:02 AM


Jaws are too short (1-9/16").


Having a hard time envisioning common use scenarios where that is going to come into play? At least for myself, chops, eggs, etc. seems like it would be pretty handy and cheap (can get even better deal with free shipping on amazon).


The leg of lamb i did this week was 5 inches (12.7 cm) in diameter. Those short prongs would be useless for large spherical or cylindrical items.
Paul Eggermann
Vice President, Secretary and webmaster
Les Marmitons of New Jersey

#745 PedroG

PedroG
  • participating member
  • 488 posts
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 26 August 2011 - 04:01 PM

When using my ruler, calipers are not necessary anyway, a kitchen table with a rectangular border will do to adjust the ruler exactly vertical/horizontal:

Thickness ruler_on_table_600px.jpg

If your table has rounded borders, just use MC:

Thickness ruler_on_MC_600px.jpg

If you do not have MC at hand, McGee will do:

Thickness ruler_on_McGee_600px.jpg
Peter F. Gruber aka Pedro
eG Ethics Signatory

#746 LoftyNotions

LoftyNotions
  • participating member
  • 161 posts

Posted 26 August 2011 - 04:37 PM

How about Alton? :laugh: Just kidding. That's really nice, Peter.

Larry
Larry Lofthouse

#747 ScottyBoy

ScottyBoy
  • society donor
  • 1,251 posts
  • Location:United States

Posted 26 August 2011 - 04:43 PM

You're just showing off...wish I had a copy of MC... :raz:
Sleep, bike, cook, feed, repeat...
Oakland, CA
My Place
My eGullet Foodblog
eG Ethics Signatory

#748 blackp

blackp
  • participating member
  • 180 posts
  • Location:Sydney, Australia

Posted 26 August 2011 - 05:57 PM

I think I've found just the measuring device. It's a plastic tree calliper and it will measure cylindrical (or for that matter spherical) objects up to 7" (~177mm) in diameter which should be OK for 90+% of SV applications.

Caliper-plastic-ex.jpg

At less than USD$4 - it shouldn't break anyone's discretionary kitchen gadget budget!

Cheers,

Peter.

Edited to show a better picture and a link with a better price.

Edited by blackp, 26 August 2011 - 06:08 PM.


#749 PedroG

PedroG
  • participating member
  • 488 posts
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 27 August 2011 - 12:47 AM

The idea of the plastic tree caliper is brilliant, but unfortunately the resolution of 1cm is not exactly brilliant. Still simpler is the precursor of my ruler I posted 26 February 2010:
Posted Image
Peter F. Gruber aka Pedro
eG Ethics Signatory

#750 Smokalicious

Smokalicious
  • participating member
  • 10 posts
  • Location:Joliet, IL

Posted 27 August 2011 - 08:27 AM

I just encountered a nice idea as a supplement to my sous vide thickness ruler on Jason Logsdons souvidecooking.com: use a sewing gauge as a sliding measure. Even better but more expensive would be an X-Ray Thickness Caliper.


I use a combination square similar to this item. I already owned one, so cost was a non-factor. Mine has a bubble level and measures to 1/64 inch. It works well for all but the very wide cuts.