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Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment, 2011


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#691 rotuts

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 12:51 PM

Boneless 'Country Style Pork Ribs' SV +?

at one of my local markets the above from time to time comes on sale. Ive used these in the past for two recipes:

put them 'plain' on a rack over a pan of shallow water ( stops the dripping from burning ) and in the oven at 425 for about 45 min.

carefully remove, drain away the fat/drippings and place the nicely browned 'ribs' in another baking dish and slather with 'BBQ Sauce' your favorite or one purchased that you 'Goose-Up'

return to a much slower oven 250 or so for as long as an hour. covered. the BBQ sauce gets carmelized, most but not all of the fat is gone and you have delicious "fall of the Non-bone" ribs.

the other was a fast grill and thin slicing

now to the question:

why not remove some of the fat, the big globs, put a rub on them and then seal in a SV bag 2 - 3 /bag.

SV at 130.1 for say 48 hours or longer. chill save.

to eat: over a very hot grill char-ish and then add BBQ sauce on the side?

they would be 1) tender 2) BBQ- ish 3) keep- able for a rainy day

Your Thoughts Much appreciated!

#692 Paul Kierstead

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 01:00 PM

I've no idea what "country style" means in those parts, but I've SV'd both baby back and side ribs, plus 'riblets' (which are kind of off-cuts from ribs). My temps were a lot higher, more like 155 or so. I've used rubs (and not), I've brined (and not), i've tried a little liquid smoke in the bag with a little brine (nice). I've torched and grilled afterwords. All worked very well, and very very tasty. Next I'm going to try a smoke gun.... then, I want to set up a proper cold smoker and try that too.

#693 rotuts

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 01:32 PM

Im only using 130.1 as an idea " rare " 'ribs' ie tender but still rare. Ill ask the store where these come from. they have really great flavor when cooked as I described in the oven. that being said they are hardly 'rare' cooked that way.

I was just wondering what 'rare' tender 'ribs' were like

I SV pork loin cut up into 6" pieces about 6 x 4 pieces with rub to 131 and then slice them very thin after they chill for sandwiches and they are to die for cant buy this type of meat anywhere.

i was just wondering what these 'ribs' would taste like that way

more info on the cut tomorrow !!

many thanks!

#694 PedroG

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 05:43 PM

New sous vide thickness ruler with new tables from Douglas Baldwin's Practical Guide

You may have noticed that on 18 June 2011 Douglas has published a new version 0.4i of his Practical Guide: he updated the food safety chapter and most of the heating, cooling, and pasteurization tables. Heating times are now defined from 5°C/41°F to 0.5°C/1°F less than the water bath’s temperature, valid for target temperatures from 45°C/110°F to 80°C/175°F, and heating times for different shapes are included. Beef pasteurization times now take E.coli into account besides Salmonella and Listeria.
So I adapted the thickness ruler to the new tables. Suggestions for improvement are welcome, as I plan to make a new thickness ruler as soon as Douglas will publish a heating time table for frozen fish.

Attached File  Thickness ruler_v4_0.4i_2.pdf   163.56KB   4104 downloads

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#695 jmolinari

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 04:29 AM

Pedro, thanks for the table. I think your next step is to make it into a slide rule for varying final meat temps :) That would be awesome!

#696 rotuts

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 06:35 AM

Kudos for PG !

#697 PedroG

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 01:59 PM

Pedro, thanks for the table. I think your next step is to make it into a slide rule for varying final meat temps :) That would be awesome!

LOL! Seriously, there is no need for different final meat temperatures. Why? The S-shaped form of the heating curve is always the same. In the same time that starting from 5°C in a 55°C water bath will arrive at 54.5°C, it will arrive at 44.6°C in a 45.0°C bath or at 64.4°C in a 65.0°C bath, an irrelevant difference.

Kudos for PG !


Thanks for the flowers which I pass on to Douglas Baldwin for his new tables!
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#698 mmille24

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 02:30 PM

Didn't like how the 75 degree egg for 15 minutes came out. Egg white was far too runny for my liking.

Going to try the other method (ie 65 degrees for 40 minutes and finish off in boiling water for 2.5 minutes).

#699 e_monster

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 07:56 PM

Didn't like how the 75 degree egg for 15 minutes came out. Egg white was far too runny for my liking.

Going to try the other method (ie 65 degrees for 40 minutes and finish off in boiling water for 2.5 minutes).

Let us know how it goes. It is possible that you needed another minute or two at 75C or you might need to raise the temperature slightly. Have you checked the calibration of your cooking device? Eggs are the thing that I cook that are most sensitive to issues of calibration.

#700 Smokalicious

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 08:50 PM

I must admit that I still have not tried Douglas' latest method at 75C, perhaps because I'm still trying for nirvana with the Khymos 6xC technique. I made eggs today SV at 63C for 70 minutes, to a cool bath for 15 minutes, boiled for 3 minutes, and again to a cool bath for a few minutes before serving. Best results yet.

To Peter's assertion of rubbery whites using this method: yes, there is a very thin layer of white that can be said is rubbery, but this adheres to the shell and mostly unnoticeable unless you make a real effort to scrape it out.

#701 mmille24

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 01:59 AM


Didn't like how the 75 degree egg for 15 minutes came out. Egg white was far too runny for my liking.

Going to try the other method (ie 65 degrees for 40 minutes and finish off in boiling water for 2.5 minutes).

Let us know how it goes. It is possible that you needed another minute or two at 75C or you might need to raise the temperature slightly. Have you checked the calibration of your cooking device? Eggs are the thing that I cook that are most sensitive to issues of calibration.


The temperature in my device is rather consistent. I tried leaving in a few minutes more and the yellow started to set and the white was still too runny for my liking.

Edited by mmille24, 30 July 2011 - 02:00 AM.


#702 Robert Jueneman

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 08:14 AM

I must admit that I still have not tried Douglas' latest method at 75C, perhaps because I'm still trying for nirvana with the Khymos 6xC technique. I made eggs today SV at 63C for 70 minutes, to a cool bath for 15 minutes, boiled for 3 minutes, and again to a cool bath for a few minutes before serving. Best results yet.

To Peter's assertion of rubbery whites using this method: yes, there is a very thin layer of white that can be said is rubbery, but this adheres to the shell and mostly unnoticeable unless you make a real effort to scrape it out.


I completely agree.

I've written up a six page blog, complete with pictures, showing the results with both a 2 minute and 3 minute pre-boil step, followed by chilling for 30 minutes to room temperature, then cooking for 60, 75, and 125 minutes at 63C. The blog has been posted on the Fresh Meals Solutions site (the makers of the Sous Vide Magic), but their new web site is still under construction, perhaps for the next week or so. Check www.freshmealssolutions.com periodically, and I'll post a note once it is available.

But the 3 minute pre-boil followed by 125 minute yolk cooking was fantastic. The egg yolk held together very nicely, there was very little egg white around it (there was a thin coating that stuck to the egg shell which I didn't bother to scrape out, and the yolk itself had a consistency of honey -- not too runny, and not too firm. Perfect!

Asparagus with perfect egg-0097.jpg

#703 mmille24

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 10:48 AM

So here is a 63C egg for 50 minutes, dipped in ice bath for 15 minutes, then thrown in boiling water, then back in ice bath so I can handle the egg.

What I found doing it in this method was:
1) Egg Yoke consistency incredible - far superior to 15 minute at 75C - far superior to traditional method
2) Better to put egg into rolling boil than actual boil. Actual boil cracked my egg.
3) >=3 minutes better than <= 3 minutes in boiling water.
4) You lose a lot of the egg white to the shell

Conclusion: I think if you want an absolutely incredible yolk than go this way, if you want to have some egg white with your yolk than you can't beat traditional methods for poaching an egg.

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#704 jmolinari

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 11:19 AM


Pedro, thanks for the table. I think your next step is to make it into a slide rule for varying final meat temps :) That would be awesome!

LOL! Seriously, there is no need for different final meat temperatures. Why? The S-shaped form of the heating curve is always the same. In the same time that starting from 5°C in a 55°C water bath will arrive at 54.5°C, it will arrive at 44.6°C in a 45.0°C bath or at 64.4°C in a 65.0°C bath, an irrelevant difference.


But wont the pasteurization times be different for different temps, therefore requiring different values on the chart?

#705 PedroG

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 12:02 PM



Pedro, thanks for the table. I think your next step is to make it into a slide rule for varying final meat temps :) That would be awesome!

LOL! Seriously, there is no need for different final meat temperatures. Why? The S-shaped form of the heating curve is always the same. In the same time that starting from 5°C in a 55°C water bath will arrive at 54.5°C, it will arrive at 44.6°C in a 45.0°C bath or at 64.4°C in a 65.0°C bath, an irrelevant difference.


But wont the pasteurization times be different for different temps, therefore requiring different values on the chart?

You're right, but space is limitied, so I had to prioritize.
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#706 PedroG

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 12:05 PM

So here is a 63C egg for 50 minutes, dipped in ice bath for 15 minutes, then thrown in boiling water, then back in ice bath so I can handle the egg.

What I found doing it in this method was:
1) Egg Yoke consistency incredible - far superior to 15 minute at 75C - far superior to traditional method
2) Better to put egg into rolling boil than actual boil. Actual boil cracked my egg.
3) >=3 minutes better than <= 3 minutes in boiling water.
4) You lose a lot of the egg white to the shell

Conclusion: I think if you want an absolutely incredible yolk than go this way, if you want to have some egg white with your yolk than you can't beat traditional methods for poaching an egg.

You might try 63°C/50', cool, plus 80°C or 75°C for a time you have to find out to set the white without making it rubbery.
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#707 jmolinari

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 02:12 PM




Pedro, thanks for the table. I think your next step is to make it into a slide rule for varying final meat temps :) That would be awesome!

LOL! Seriously, there is no need for different final meat temperatures. Why? The S-shaped form of the heating curve is always the same. In the same time that starting from 5°C in a 55°C water bath will arrive at 54.5°C, it will arrive at 44.6°C in a 45.0°C bath or at 64.4°C in a 65.0°C bath, an irrelevant difference.


But wont the pasteurization times be different for different temps, therefore requiring different values on the chart?

You're right, but space is limitied, so I had to prioritize.


Right, of course, but my point was that one cannot just assume the S-shaped heating curve b/c that wouldn't take into account the pasteurization times.

#708 e_monster

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 04:53 PM



Didn't like how the 75 degree egg for 15 minutes came out. Egg white was far too runny for my liking.

Going to try the other method (ie 65 degrees for 40 minutes and finish off in boiling water for 2.5 minutes).

Let us know how it goes. It is possible that you needed another minute or two at 75C or you might need to raise the temperature slightly. Have you checked the calibration of your cooking device? Eggs are the thing that I cook that are most sensitive to issues of calibration.


The temperature in my device is rather consistent. I tried leaving in a few minutes more and the yellow started to set and the white was still too runny for my liking.


Have you calibrated it against a thermometer of known accuracy? A set-up can hold temperature with great stability but still be off by a degree or more and with eggs that makes a huge difference. So, if you have never checked it against a known standard, you won't know whether when your machine reads 75C that it is 75C and not something else.

#709 PedroG

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 05:01 PM





Pedro, thanks for the table. I think your next step is to make it into a slide rule for varying final meat temps :) That would be awesome!

LOL! Seriously, there is no need for different final meat temperatures. Why? The S-shaped form of the heating curve is always the same. In the same time that starting from 5°C in a 55°C water bath will arrive at 54.5°C, it will arrive at 44.6°C in a 45.0°C bath or at 64.4°C in a 65.0°C bath, an irrelevant difference.


But wont the pasteurization times be different for different temps, therefore requiring different values on the chart?

You're right, but space is limitied, so I had to prioritize.


Right, of course, but my point was that one cannot just assume the S-shaped heating curve b/c that wouldn't take into account the pasteurization times.

I was referring to heating times. Of course pasteurizing times are different for different bath temperatures, but there is no room left to incorporate 33 columns for all the pasteurization times. I'll try to squeeze in one more column when Douglas will have calculated the heating times for frozen fish.
I recommend you copy all the tables from Douglas' guide, paste them together on 2 or 3 sheets and glue them to your kitchen door.
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#710 mmille24

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 04:30 AM

You might try 63°C/50', cool, plus 80°C or 75°C for a time you have to find out to set the white without making it rubbery.


I didn't like the consistency of the whites at 75C. Maybe 85C for 3 minutes would be better?

Edited by mmille24, 31 July 2011 - 04:31 AM.


#711 PedroG

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 10:34 AM

That's just at the limit of ovalbumin denaturation. After trying you will know. We should appreciate your report with photos.
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#712 rotuts

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 09:32 AM

yest. I SV'd some tri-tips

this is not a common cut in NE as I was under the impression most of it goes to California for the grill. Ive had it in CA a lot that way.

but it was on Sale, so Id try.

I had 2 2lb pieces and I cut them along the grain into three pieces each, so that out of the bag you could cut them easily against the grain for either thin RBeef sandwiches or as a Hot Roast.

i seasoned 1/2 of the packets with Sauer's Prime Rib and Roast seasoning


http://www.cfsauer.c...ducts.asp?id=24

and the other 1/2 with Penzy's Chicago steak. CS has been a long long favorite for me but the Prime Rib is catching up fast. it has rosemary in it a flavor I love on Roast Beef.

Baldwin suggests 6 - 8 hours I chose 131 as I love rare beef. I probably would like 125 but you know how that goes.

4 bags were pulled at 8 hours and two left for 10 total. chilled.

i just devoured a 10 hour Roast Beef Seasoning sliced thin

I was astonished at the fantastic Roast Beef flavor of the meat. see: devoured above

this was what beef should taste like for me. and it was not just the seasoning that made this great it was the flavor of the Tip itself.

but it might have benefited longer in the SV for tenderness. granted this was thin cut for a sandwich. the beef never made it to a sandwich see devoured above.

how long have people here SV Tri-Tip at 131? Im back to the store tomorrow for a lot more of this cut. will have to pull out the 38 qt cooler and SVM rig.

Ill pot the bags unopened from the first trial in that to give them a few more hours in the SV

so the two questions are:

1) how long for you for Tri-tip beef? 2) can you toss a cooled bag back into the SV to add tenderness?

if you are getting something anyway from Sauers and love traditional roast beef flavor get a ton os the Roast Beef Rub.

thanks

Edited by rotuts, 14 August 2011 - 09:35 AM.


#713 rotuts

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 03:10 PM

another question re SV and 'dry age at home'

in the Pre SV times i used to 'dry age' steaks in my refrig for 3 - 4 days being very careful re contamination then cook them on the hot grill or freeze for another outing.

Ive read several interesting threads here about home Dry Aging.

if one were to DAge some beef for a few days carefully then do the SV

the SV give the rare and tender part

would that Dry age come throught?

thanks

#714 Robert Jueneman

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 04:18 PM


You might try 63°C/50', cool, plus 80°C or 75°C for a time you have to find out to set the white without making it rubbery.


I didn't like the consistency of the whites at 75C. Maybe 85C for 3 minutes would be better?


I think that depends on what you want. In my case, I wanted the yolk only, with no whites, and certainly not gibbery, snotty whites. So for me, 63C for 125 minutes was just right for the yolk, then cool, and then 3 minutes in gently boiling water (so as not to crack the egg) congealed the whites to the point where they adhered to the shell, and the yolk came out very cleanly.

If you are trying to make a soft-boiled egg with whites, maybe to serve on toast, then perhaps a lower temperature would work.

Fortunately, eggs are a lot less expensive than a pound of sirloin, much less a kilo of foie gras, so you can afford to experiment! Cook two or three, or maybe four, and pull them out at varying times, then try higher or lower temperatures.

#715 Robert Jueneman

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 04:26 PM

yest. I SV'd some tri-tips

this is not a common cut in NE as I was under the impression most of it goes to California for the grill. Ive had it in CA a lot that way.

but it was on Sale, so Id try.

I had 2 2lb pieces and I cut them along the grain into three pieces each, so that out of the bag you could cut them easily against the grain for either thin RBeef sandwiches or as a Hot Roast.

i seasoned 1/2 of the packets with Sauer's Prime Rib and Roast seasoning


http://www.cfsauer.c...ducts.asp?id=24

and the other 1/2 with Penzy's Chicago steak. CS has been a long long favorite for me but the Prime Rib is catching up fast. it has rosemary in it a flavor I love on Roast Beef.

Baldwin suggests 6 - 8 hours I chose 131 as I love rare beef. I probably would like 125 but you know how that goes.

so the two questions are:

1) how long for you for Tri-tip beef? 2) can you toss a cooled bag back into the SV to add tenderness?

if you are getting something anyway from Sauers and love traditional roast beef flavor get a ton os the Roast Beef Rub.

thanks


Isn't it interesting how different cuts of meat are or are not available in different parts of the country. I doubt that it is due to scarcity (all tri-tips going to CA), but just regional preferences.

I cook a chuck steak for 24 hours at 131F, and could even go longer, I suppose.

Tri-tip ought to be more tender than chuck, and so perhaps 24 hours would be too long, but on the other hand, I don't think it is going to turn into mush at that point, and there is also the convenience factor to consider.

#716 e_monster

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 04:56 PM

Isn't it interesting how different cuts of meat are or are not available in different parts of the country. I doubt that it is due to scarcity (all tri-tips going to CA), but just regional preferences.

I cook a chuck steak for 24 hours at 131F, and could even go longer, I suppose.

Tri-tip ought to be more tender than chuck, and so perhaps 24 hours would be too long, but on the other hand, I don't think it is going to turn into mush at that point, and there is also the convenience factor to consider.


It might be a name thing. Tri-tip is called Bottom Sirloin in some parts of the country (which is what it apparently used to be called everywhere until someone in Texas started calling it Tri-Tip to see if it would sell better -- and it did).

For tri-tip my recommendation is around 7 hours at 132 to 133F. 12 hours is fine but 24 hours tends to result in it being too soft. At least to my palate. I finish it off with my Iwatani torch.

I also prefer to cook it and then let it rest in the bag on the counter for a a while before torching.

#717 lesliec

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 06:51 PM

I had a 'best-ever' experience with duck breast last night.

Previously I've used confit-type time/temp for both breast and legs. There's been no problem with this - in fact, the last lot of legs I did (82°C for 10-12 hours) was also a best-ever - but last night I decided to treat the breast more as I would chicken. Three hours at 65°, followed by a blast of ultrahot oil on the skin side, gave a beautifully tender, juicy result. Highly recommended.

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#718 ScottyBoy

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 09:18 PM

You were using 82c for breast too?

Oh yes my friend, even down to 55c I would recommend for breast. And take it to the next level, remove the skin before cooking and lay between sheet pans in the over to make a duck skin cracker!
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#719 avaserfi

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 10:57 AM

You were using 82c for breast too?

Oh yes my friend, even down to 55c I would recommend for breast. And take it to the next level, remove the skin before cooking and lay between sheet pans in the over to make a duck skin cracker!


That's pretty much what I do. 54.4C until cooked through and crisp the skin in the oven. Works perfectly.

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#720 lesliec

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 05:55 PM

You were using 82c for breast too?

Yep - 82 works fine; you just get a much softer texture (as with confit legs). But I'm keen to play with lower temps. I'll try your 55 next time.

Crispy duck skin is known in these parts as 'qwackling'. Not sure if that's original ...

Scotty, I'm hoping to reprise your Arzak experience next month. Very much looking forward to it.

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