1196 replies to this topic

[Mikels]

I have had some off tastes when SV garlic. Either I use granulated garlic if I am rushed or, preferably, cook the garlic a bit, either with the other vegetables sometimes I roast it for a different flavor. I also cook any vegetables prior to SVing them, since the SV temperature is too low to cookthem.

While talking about garlic, I remembered wine. I always boil the wine before using it for SV, since I have detected a metallic taste if I haven't done so before. Usually, I boil the wine until is has reduced in volume by at least half. Then I freeze the wine as small ice cubes which are about 1T in volume. When I SV whatever I am cooking, I know that liquid is released from the meat. By having a concentrated wine (the freezing helps keep it solid wben sealing the pouch) it imparts additional flavor when diluted.

Needless to say herbs and spices behave differently when SVing for a long time.

Since I usually SV for long times (24-36 hours), I don't know how they behave for shorter times.

[paulpegg]

I have had some off tastes when SV garlic. Either I use granulated garlic if I am rushed or, preferably, cook the garlic a bit, either with the other vegetables sometimes I roast it for a different flavor. I also cook any vegetables prior to SVing them, since the SV temperature is too low to cookthem.

While talking about garlic, I remembered wine. I always boil the wine before using it for SV, since I have detected a metallic taste if I haven't done so before. Usually, I boil the wine until is has reduced in volume by at least half. Then I freeze the wine as small ice cubes which are about 1T in volume. When I SV whatever I am cooking, I know that liquid is released from the meat. By having a concentrated wine (the freezing helps keep it solid wben sealing the pouch) it imparts additional flavor when diluted.

Needless to say herbs and spices behave differently when SVing for a long time.

Since I usually SV for long times (24-36 hours), I don't know how they behave for shorter times.

The most delicious asparagus you will ever have is SV with a bit of salt, pepper, garlic powder and a Tbsp of butter in the bag and cooked at 83.9C for 40 minutes. I think all vegetables need to cook at this temperature to tenderize them. They are basically being cooked in their own juices and they come out much better than if you blanched them in boiling water.

Thomas Keller, in his book "Under Pressure", advises that you reduce the quantity and wrap any aromatics in paper towel before you put them in the bag to prevent direct contact with the meat. It works great on long cooked meats.

[3rdCookFOWT]

Might as well use silver or silver plated copper.

Wouldn't aluminum pins be better? More than ten times better than SS for thermal conductivity.

[PedroG]

I understood that the maximum safe thickness for sv meat was 70mm. Could this be increased by studding the meat with stainless steel pins of optimal length, diameter, and distribution?

70mm is for a slab. Most often meat of more than 70mm thickness will rather be something like a cylinder or between cylinder and sphere. Douglas Baldwin has published a table "APPROXIMATE HEATING TIMES FOR DIFFERENT SHAPES" taking into account the geometrical factor. So with a cylindrical cut of meat, thickness may be up to at least 100mm, and for an almost spherical cut it might even be 120mm.
Whole animals like turkeys would in fact lend themselves to be skewered on a heat pipe skewer. But how would this be vacuum-sealed?

[Rob Babcock]

Time & temp?

Sorry, Chris- I sort of lost track of this thread! I like to start with a sirloin around 2" thick. The temp is usually 130-131 for around 3 hours. It depends on the thickness; my procedure so far has been to use Doug Baldwin's pasteurization charts. After SV'ing I either finish with my Iwatani or two screaming hot pans, panini-style. The latter only takes about 45 seconds but can generate copious amounted of smoke & mess. Luckily summer is just around the corner, then I can do it outdoors.

[Anna N]

I have been anxious to try sous-vide vegetables and today the moon was in the right quadrant. Asparagus bagged with some salt and pepper and butter and cooked for 35 minutes at 83C. Taste was excellent, texture not so much (I would cut back to 25 minutes next time) and colour, as expected, was meh.







The rutabaga, cooked as per Chris’s method (here) was perfect. The colour is very attractive, the taste was excellent and the texture intriguing. It was tender yet with the tiniest bit of resistance. The “chips” held together with no mushiness.

[KennethT]

I find 83C way too hot for asparagus... In the old SV thread I posted my asparagus time/temp - it was something like 155F for 8-10 min. I think... I'll have to recheck... I also checked out Modernist Cuisine which recommended something similar to my results... I'll have to check it when I get home though...

ETA: OK - just checked the old post (the index is great!!!) - it was 150F for 8 min. Here's the link

Edited by KennethT, 28 March 2011 - 02:13 PM.

[rotuts]

Im learning a great deal from this thread. its fantastic!

I love the photos ( Anna N et.al ) and thank you all for uploading it.

Im about to do a first "meat" SV at 131. some eye chuck ( thanks Anna!) "Rump" and what ever else I can find on sale. eve a few tender cuts (thanks to PedroG) and take them out at the correct time.

I havent figured out how to put the system I use in a 'signature' but its a Coleman beer cooler modified with the SV system from Frank at Fresh Meals Solutions.

Id like to propose an experiment to those who love asparagus. I havent gotten to veg. yet

take one bag's worth and soak (hot or cold?) in water with some bicarbonate of soda.

do two bags one with these and one 'plain' Im interested in the color differences.

if no one has the time to do this Ill try it when I get to the veg.

thanks for everything and those Pics!

[Todd in Chicago]

This ever happen to anyone?

I made some salmon a while back. Cooked (followed Dougs book temp/time), quick chilled, and then froze. A few weeks later I put the salmon (frozen) in the SVS at 130F for about 90 min.

The salmon ended up sticking to the inside of the bag. I don't recall that ever happening before. Although the salmon wasn't bad, I was so bummed because most of it ended up shredded that I think it may have "damped" the taste (to me). Anyone have any ideas? Is it because I froze it? Could I possibly have overcooked it? My wife LOVES salmon so I would love to be able to make some and keep it frozen and just do a "heat and serve". I realize this is not the best approach for absolute quality, but the ability to do this sucessfully would go a long way to being able to make a quick and healthy meal. Did I mention my wife loves salmon? ;-)

Todd in Chicago

[PedroG]

Todd:
What was in the bag besides the salmon? What was the thickness/time/temp. of the first cooking before chilling? How much vacuum did you apply (chamber? clamp? ziploc?).

[Anna N]

I find 83C way too hot for asparagus... In the old SV thread I posted my asparagus time/temp - it was something like 155F for 8-10 min. I think... I'll have to recheck... I also checked out Modernist Cuisine which recommended something similar to my results... I'll have to check it when I get home though...

ETA: OK - just checked the old post (the index is great!!!) - it was 150F for 8 min. Here's the link

Kenneth,
Thanks. I did make note of your times and temperature but also noted that you found the finished asparagus a little too "crunchy". Have you tried it again and reached a texture you approve of? I will try again today with a lower temperature and shorter time. Again, thanks.

[blackp]

This ever happen to anyone?

I made some salmon a while back. Cooked (followed Dougs book temp/time), quick chilled, and then froze. A few weeks later I put the salmon (frozen) in the SVS at 130F for about 90 min.

The salmon ended up sticking to the inside of the bag. I don't recall that ever happening before. Although the salmon wasn't bad, I was so bummed because most of it ended up shredded that I think it may have "damped" the taste (to me). Anyone have any ideas? Is it because I froze it? Could I possibly have overcooked it? My wife LOVES salmon so I would love to be able to make some and keep it frozen and just do a "heat and serve". I realize this is not the best approach for absolute quality, but the ability to do this sucessfully would go a long way to being able to make a quick and healthy meal. Did I mention my wife loves salmon? ;-)

Todd in Chicago

Why not do it the other way around? Most oily fish freezes well and can be defrosted in the microwave if time is important and cooked SV to order.

I usually buy a whole side of salmon, portion it, vacuum bag it and then freeze it.

I have even tried fresh bought and defrosted portions at the same time and have not been able to detect any significant difference.

Cheers,

Peter.

[Anna N]

So I re-tried the asparagus sous vide at 66C. After 10 minutes it remained rock hard so I returned it to the bath and cooked for another 5 minutes. I opened the bag and it was still much too “toothy” for my taste. I prepared more asparagus and cooked it for 20 minutes. It remained about the same. Finally I re-bagged 2 stalks from the 20 minute test and cooked for a further 10 minutes for a total of 30 minutes. The colour is good but it is just on the wrong edge of what I would consider texturally “right”. The “doneness” of asparagus is obviously a very personal thing but to give you my comparison: when I steam asparagus I consider it “done” when the stalks just barely bend when lifted with tongs situated at about the centre point.



After 10 minutes.



After 15 minutes




After 30 minutes.

There are a number of variables too. The thickness of the stalks and I would guess the freshness of the asparagus. I tried for consistency in thickness and will be interested to try locally grown asparagus when it arrives.

[JBailey]

I need help and advice to avert a sous vide disaster. Last night, I pulled out some pork ribs which had come in a cryovac bulk package. The 'buy' date was about ten days to two weeks ago. When I opened the package there was a distinct 'briney' smell to the meat (it did come advertised as coming in a saline brine solution). That may be clue one that the meat may not be right. I don't know what the meat packers and resellers believe are relatively safe windows to use product subsequent to the 'buy' date.

Next, I rinsed all the meat, cut the slabs into smaller sizes from the larger ribs and seasoned them. I vacuumed packed them in bags using a chamber vacuum with a high vacuum setting. the ribs were still cool and well above room temp when vacuumed. Then I put them in a sous vide bath at 140 F at about 11 PM last night.

A few minutes ago when I awoke, I looked at my sous vide bath. All the bags had bloated and there was lots of air in each of them.

I don't want to eat or serve something that is bad. Please share your thoughts.

[Chris Amirault]

Throw them away.

Posted from my handheld using the Tapatalk app. Want to use eG Forums on your iPhone, Android or Blackberry? Get started at http://egullet.org/tapatalk

[jmolinari]

were the ribs frozen? I would not use something that is 2 weeks from an already insanely long best-buy date (cryovac pork often has best buy dates a month + ahead of when it was packaged).
As for the bloating, i believe that can happen if you're unable to evacuate all the air out of the package before heating, and it expands..

Either way, i wouldn't eat them. I wouldn't even have started the process though.

[KennethT]

I find 83C way too hot for asparagus... In the old SV thread I posted my asparagus time/temp - it was something like 155F for 8-10 min. I think... I'll have to recheck... I also checked out Modernist Cuisine which recommended something similar to my results... I'll have to check it when I get home though...

ETA: OK - just checked the old post (the index is great!!!) - it was 150F for 8 min. Here's the link

Kenneth,
Thanks. I did make note of your times and temperature but also noted that you found the finished asparagus a little too "crunchy". Have you tried it again and reached a texture you approve of? I will try again today with a lower temperature and shorter time. Again, thanks.

Anna - I usually use 155F for about 12 minutes now... but I also usually peel the asparagus unless they're super-skinny... I think the skins take a lot more heat to soften than the interior... and, not to mention that the asparagus in the store is typically pretty old (very old by Robuchon standards, who says that asparagus becomes a different (and inferior) vegetable 24 hours after it's picked!) Unfortunately, I don't have access to his purveyors so we do with what we have... Anyway, when peeled and cooked, I like my asparagus texture to bend when held at the end, but not flop over... so I like some toothfullness (is that a word?) but not crunchy.... I think the skins have a lot to do with the extra time/temp necessary to soften though...

[JBailey]

Thank you Chris and Jmolinari...thrown away. That was my instinct, but I wanted to ask.

[rotuts]

yes, toothfullness is a word: its an Italian word : 'Al Dente"



sorry I couldnt resist

[Todd in Chicago]

Todd:
What was in the bag besides the salmon? What was the thickness/time/temp. of the first cooking before chilling? How much vacuum did you apply (chamber? clamp? ziploc?).

Hi Pedro! Thanks for asking and offering a suggestion.

So, I've cooked salmon before using the temp/times from Doug's book before, but have never frozen them after cooking.

I can't remember what was in the bag with the salmon, but I believe very little. Most likely only either some butter or a splash or two of olive oil.

This was sushi grade Norwegian salmon that was typical of what they sell here in the states; about an 1.5 inches in the middle tapering down to "very thin" on both ends (no skin). I sealed the salmon using the Sous Vide Supreme vacuum system - most likely running on automatic. In looking in my "Sous Vide for the Home Cook" book; I would have cooked them for about 45 minutes @ 140. I would have then quick chilled them in a pot of icewater for 30-40 minutes and then put them in the freezer.

On the reheat, I would have set my bath (Sous Vide Supreme) for 130 and placed the frozen salmon in for approx. 1.5 hours.

I don't recall ever having the problem when I simply cooked the salmon and then ate it right away, but I never froze it before.

Once again, since my wife LOVES salmon, it would be uber cool to be able to buy a large portion and cook/quick chill it and then freeze it.

In response to another reponse here, my thoughts on why I don't simply buy the salmon and vaccuum and freeze it raw was that I thought I read the the quality would be higher by cooking it first. For example, a cooked piece of salmon frozen would be in better shape and taste better on the reheat 3 weeks from freezing than a raw piece of salmon being vacuum packed and froze. Is this a misunderstanding on my part? Which is better? Freezing raw product or freezing cooked/quick chill product. Specifically salmon.

Thanks all!

Todd in Chicago

P.S. My VP112 just arrived today! I can't wait to check it out tomorrow!

[Borgstrom]

So I re-tried the asparagus sous vide at 66C. After 10 minutes it remained rock hard so I returned it to the bath and cooked for another 5 minutes. I opened the bag and it was still much too “toothy” for my taste.

I made some sous vide asparagus tonight, using Modernist Cuisines's best bet -- 15 min at 85c. The stalks were pretty thick, so I was worried it would come out too hard. But for my taste, it had just the right amount of "toothiness'. I gave the bag a 30-second dunk in boiling water (followed by a shock in cold water/freezer for a few minutes) before putting in the water bath to try to preserve the color.



In the end, I think it was a fine, light preparation. However, I still really prefer grilled asparagus, with lots of brown/black marks...

[PedroG]

Todd:
What was in the bag besides the salmon? What was the thickness/time/temp. of the first cooking before chilling? How much vacuum did you apply (chamber? clamp? ziploc?).

Hi Pedro! Thanks for asking and offering a suggestion.

So, I've cooked salmon before using the temp/times from Doug's book before, but have never frozen them after cooking.

I can't remember what was in the bag with the salmon, but I believe very little. Most likely only either some butter or a splash or two of olive oil.

This was sushi grade Norwegian salmon that was typical of what they sell here in the states; about an 1.5 inches in the middle tapering down to "very thin" on both ends (no skin). I sealed the salmon using the Sous Vide Supreme vacuum system - most likely running on automatic. In looking in my "Sous Vide for the Home Cook" book; I would have cooked them for about 45 minutes @ 140. I would have then quick chilled them in a pot of icewater for 30-40 minutes and then put them in the freezer.

On the reheat, I would have set my bath (Sous Vide Supreme) for 130 and placed the frozen salmon in for approx. 1.5 hours.

I don't recall ever having the problem when I simply cooked the salmon and then ate it right away, but I never froze it before.

Once again, since my wife LOVES salmon, it would be uber cool to be able to buy a large portion and cook/quick chill it and then freeze it.

In response to another reponse here, my thoughts on why I don't simply buy the salmon and vaccuum and freeze it raw was that I thought I read the the quality would be higher by cooking it first. For example, a cooked piece of salmon frozen would be in better shape and taste better on the reheat 3 weeks from freezing than a raw piece of salmon being vacuum packed and froze. Is this a misunderstanding on my part? Which is better? Freezing raw product or freezing cooked/quick chill product. Specifically salmon.

Thanks all!

Todd in Chicago

P.S. My VP112 just arrived today! I can't wait to check it out tomorrow!

Hi Todd,
in my experience, salmon gets falling apart when cooked for substantially more than the minimum required heating time. Heat-freeze-reheat more than doubles your cooking time. After cooking fish sous vide, you will notice a layer of albumin that has leached out of the fish and coagulated and which you would dab off before searing; this might have glued to the plastic during freezing.
So I would recommend to buy your fish frozen. Frozen fish is fresher than fresh fish as it is frozen immediately after catching, and I guess deterioration of quality be freezing is less in professional freezing than in home freezing, and furthermore you are safe from parasites like Anisakis after professional freezing.
As a cooking temperature for salmon, I prefer about 45-46°C and post-searing in smoking hot rice bran oil or grape seed oil, so the center remains a little bit translucent.

P.S. Be happy with your new Vacmaster VP112, but be careful not to apply more than 90% vacuum to fish, or else it may get mushy, see wikiGullet.

[zemvpferreira]

Guys,

I'm currently starting to design a sous-vide cooking appliance. This thread has been a great source of both inspiration and information, so I'd like to ask you all to help with the design process by answering a couple of questions. I hope I'm not out of order, but I think this thread is possibly the biggest collection of sous-vide cooks in the whole internet, and you're exactly the people I'd like to design a better sous-vide machine for. When I get further down the project I'll share sketches and prototypes, and hopefully any knowledge I've picked up along the way. Please feel free to add any comments.

1- What kind of sous-vide gear do you have (and how much did you pay for it)?

2- How regularly do you use it?

3- How much food do you usually cook at once?

4- What annoys you in the process of cooking sous-vide?

5- Would you make any improvements to your gear?

Thanks a lot!

[Anna N]

.....

Anna - I usually use 155F for about 12 minutes now... but I also usually peel the asparagus unless they're super-skinny... I think the skins take a lot more heat to soften than the interior... and, not to mention that the asparagus in the store is typically pretty old (very old by Robuchon standards, who says that asparagus becomes a different (and inferior) vegetable 24 hours after it's picked!) Unfortunately, I don't have access to his purveyors so we do with what we have... Anyway, when peeled and cooked, I like my asparagus texture to bend when held at the end, but not flop over... so I like some toothfullness (is that a word?) but not crunchy.... I think the skins have a lot to do with the extra time/temp necessary to soften though...

Afraid I have run out of asparagus for this experiment. When I get more I will continue my explorations.

[rotuts]

Sous Vide home 'dry-aged' meat?

in the past Id dry-age various cuts of supermarket beef at home: on very clean surfaces ( perhaps a hot bleach rinse on the cutting boards) I loosely wrap the beef and place on a stainless steel rack in the refrig in the coldest place for 3 - 4 days then cook 'conventionally' Id make stake and chuck-burger this way. the taste improved dramatically. can these cuts be bagged and SV'd safely?

it seems they meet the safety standards mentioned in Baldwin et al. they would be SV to 130 for the time needed /cut type.

has anyone done this?

[paulpegg]

Guys,

I'm currently starting to design a sous-vide cooking appliance. This thread has been a great source of both inspiration and information, so I'd like to ask you all to help with the design process by answering a couple of questions. I hope I'm not out of order, but I think this thread is possibly the biggest collection of sous-vide cooks in the whole internet, and you're exactly the people I'd like to design a better sous-vide machine for. When I get further down the project I'll share sketches and prototypes, and hopefully any knowledge I've picked up along the way. Please feel free to add any comments.

1- What kind of sous-vide gear do you have (and how much did you pay for it)?

2- How regularly do you use it?

3- How much food do you usually cook at once?



4- What annoys you in the process of cooking sous-vide?

5- Would you make any improvements to your gear?

Thanks a lot!

Please check out my design at Les Marmitons NJ and also posted on page 147 of the Previous thread on this subject I use a large beer cooler for larger quantities and a stock pot for smaller amounts. It cost me $165 to build and I have spent a few dollars more on improvements. Total is still less than $200.

I use the system several times a week.

The amount I cook depends on the cut of meat, how much I have purchased and how long it takes to cook. For example, when I do short ribs that take 72 hours i will do 10 or 15 pounds, serve some on the final day and freeze the rest. For a steak that needs only a few hours I will just cook the portion of the day. I use the beer cooler for the larger amount and the stock pot for smaller ones.

I really don't find anything particularly annoying about sous vide cooking. It has simplified meal preparation because the timing is not all that critical and you can concentrate on other things as serving time approaches. This is a big help when entertaining or cooking for a large group. I have used this system for events up to 150 people and it has totally changed the way we think about meal preparation.

i have made one change since I built the system in the article I pointed you to above. The original circulating pump was not up to the high temperatures needed for vegetables (as Pedro pointed out). Pedro gave me an ebay source in Hong Kong for a pump rated at 80C+. It took a month to arrive (I actually bought two) and works as advertised.

My future plans include using a two position PID that a friend is giving me so that I can control both cookers at different temperatures. I may start to build a vacuum chamber if I can locate an appropriate pressure vessel and a sealer I can put in it.

Edited by paulpegg, 30 March 2011 - 08:47 AM.

[nextguy]

Has anyone seen there is a new circulator from sousvidesystems.com. Their website isn't done yet but they have a facebook page. I think it only went on sale this month and is only $499 + shipping. Their facebook page is not very detailed so I emailed them. The guy who answered said he is heating a 20 gallon bath and holds temperature to within 1 degree. I would take the plunge but I am hoping that someone reviews it first.

[blackp]

Has anyone seen there is a new circulator from sousvidesystems.com. Their website isn't done yet but they have a facebook page. I think it only went on sale this month and is only $499 + shipping. Their facebook page is not very detailed so I emailed them. The guy who answered said he is heating a 20 gallon bath and holds temperature to within 1 degree. I would take the plunge but I am hoping that someone reviews it first.

One degree doesn't sound very good to me. I can hold a tank within 0.1 degree using my Sous Vide Magic for way less than $500!

[nextguy]

One degree doesn't sound very good to me. I can hold a tank within 0.1 degree using my Sous Vide Magic for way less than $500!

Yes I agree. I am guessing it is +-1 C as well. But at least it is a good sign that there is some competition for real immersion circulators.

[paulpegg]

One degree doesn't sound very good to me. I can hold a tank within 0.1 degree using my Sous Vide Magic for way less than $500!

Yes I agree. I am guessing it is +-1 C as well. But at least it is a good sign that there is some competition for real immersion circulators.

My DIY system holds to +-.1 degree C with no problem. Not bad for less than $200.