1176 replies to this topic

[PedroG]

Hi Phaz,
welcome to the sous vide community!

Sous vide cooking of tender cuts of meat may give results equal to or at best a trace better than skillful conventional cooking; the advantage is fool-proof achievement of the desired doneness, and that you are flexible when to take your meat out of the water bath after the minimum cooking time (see guru Douglas Baldwin's Practical Guide http://amath.colorad.../sous-vide.html ) or an hour or two later, but extended cooking times will lead to more liquid loss and at worst dryness and a mushy texture. See http://forums.egulle...ost__p__1726689
And listen to blackp http://forums.egulle...ost__p__1733977 !
For juiciness, see

The Nature of Juiciness
Food scientists who have studied the subjective sensation of juiciness find that it consists of two phases: the initial impression of moisture as you bite into the food, and the continued release of moisture as you chew. Juiciness at first bite comes directly from the meat's own free water, while continued juiciness comes from the meat's fat and flavor, both of which stimulate the flow of our own saliva. This is probably why well-seared meat is often credited with greater juiciness despite the fact that searing squeezes more of the meat's own juice out. Above all else, searing intensifies flavor by means of the browning reactions, and intense flavor gets our juices flowing.

You may enhance continued juiciness by spicing or marinating your meat before bagging, or eventually by larding or injecting oil, see http://forums.egulle...ost__p__1690291 , or by serving it with a spicy sauce.

When cooking tough meat (e.g. brisket) sous vide, you can achieve something that is not possible by conventional cooking: an evenly pink and fork-tender roast or steak with the texture of a steak and with perfectly gelatinized collagen giving it an unparalleled succulence. Try http://forums.egulle...ost__p__1729111
Longtime cooking will lead to liquid loss up to 20%, and it is worthwhile using the gravy (which is especially tasty when the meat was dry-rubbed or marinated) immediately for a sauce or preserving it in a screw cap glass by heating in the microwave to pasteurize (with the cap only loosely closed to allow steam to escape), cooling rapidly in ice-water and keeping it refrigerated.

Regards
Pedro

[nickrey]

... it is worthwhile using the gravy (which is especially tasty when the meat was dry-rubbed or marinated) immediately for a sauce or preserving it in a screw cap glass by heating in the microwave to pasteurize (with the cap only loosely closed to allow steam to escape), cooling rapidly in ice-water and keeping it refrigerated.

Wouldn't the glass crack if you plunged it straight into ice water?

[PedroG]

I've done this many times, by microwave or in a bain marie, and the glass never cracked.

[e_monster]

Sous vide cooking of tender cuts of meat may give results equal to or at best a trace better than skillful conventional cooking; the advantage is fool-proof achievement of the desired doneness, and that you are flexible when to take your meat out of the water bath after the minimum cooking time (see guru Douglas Baldwin's Practical Guide http://amath.colorad.../sous-vide.html ) or an hour or two later, but extended cooking times will lead to more liquid loss and at worst dryness and a mushy texture.

I just want to add a little emphasis to Pedro's point that might be lost. With sous-vide, just about anyone can prepare a perfect steak that is the equivalent of one prepared using traditional means by a skillful chef (a perfect steak by traditional means requires a lot of baby-sitting and is easy to overcook). People that we have served our sous-vide/torch-seared ribeye consistently say that it is the best steak they have had.

I am sure that if you use Alain Ducasse's traditional method that you will get one just as delicious -- but that requires that the steak have been brought up to room temperature followed by about 45 minutes of active participation including baby-sitting the steak on a medium-low flame and if you don't pay attention you burn the butter and ruin the steak or you over or undercook it. Also, that method really requires a steak at least 2 inches thick for the center part to not get overcooked.

With sous-vide, the only critical issue is not leaving it in the bath too long and then searing it quickly so that you only brown the outside. But once you have done it once or twice, it is hard to mess it up.

Anyway, that is my feeling.

[slkinsey]

Longtime cooking will lead to liquid loss up to 20%, and it is worthwhile using the gravy (which is especially tasty when the meat was dry-rubbed or marinated) immediately for a sauce or preserving it in a screw cap glass by heating in the microwave to pasteurize (with the cap only loosely closed to allow steam to escape), cooling rapidly in ice-water and keeping it refrigerated.

It's worth noting that this osmazome (the liquid exuded from the meat by cooking) needs to come to a simmer in order to coagulate out the various substances that don't coagulate at the lower temperatures used for sous vide cooking. Otherwise you can end up with an unattractive, cloudy scum in your sauce. I find that the easiest thing to do is cut a corner of the bag and pour out the liquid into a small saucepan; then bring the liquid to a simmer long enough to coagulate the scum; then pass it through a fine sieve. This typically yields a clear, particle-free liquid that can be used straight away in a sauce or saved.

As for saving it, I have a hard time understanding why one would go to all the trouble of trying to "pseudo-Pasteurize" it in the microwave. Just put it in the freezer.

[PedroG]

I think microwave-boiling is not "pseudo-pasteurization", it is pasteurization in the fraction of a second; pasteurization time at 80°C is 0.17 sec, so near the boiling point it is almost nul, only spores may be left, and by rapid cooling you prevent outgrowth of spores. It also coagulates the scum, and you may pass it through a strainer (mandatory for a nice clear sauce). For deglazing I use it without sieving and I did not notice any adverse effect. Of course freezing is safe, but keeping in the 1°C-compartment will do for a few weeks and the gravy is available spontaneously without thawing.

[nickrey]

In an earlier post (link here), I explored extracting osmazome from sous-vide cooked mince.

The pictures go through the process of extracting the osmazome from the liquid in your sous vide bag.

More recently, I just heat to coagulate the scum and then filter it through muslin only once.

Like slkinsey, I also freeze this. This is done in an ice-cube tray with the resultant cubes stored in a zip-lock bag. You can then take out an appropriate amount to use in sauces.

[RoyK]

OK, been experimenting quite a bit with some successes and some failures. Experimenting on temps, amount of product in the 35 cup Rice Cooker with SV Magic ("Water Oven") and struggling with new ziplock bags and learning to use foodsaver. Cooked short ribs, prime brisket, spare rib cuttings, and chicken breast.

First of all, has anybody else noticed that the ziplock double zip freezer bags have changed? Now, not only is the zip portion double, but there is a liner bag inside of the bag. This makes removing air really really difficult. Has anybody figured out how to get the air out of these new bags? This forced me to take out my foodsaver (does not have the "pulse" button) and really making the SV process much harder than before. I need to score some of the "old" ziplock gallon freezer bags.

1. Short Ribs. After trying short ribs at Providence and then Cache here in Los Angeles, I can proudly say that neither of them are as good as the SV short ribs. Both efforts tasted more like pot roast then the wonderful steak-like texture from SV short ribs. Let alone, I have found that if you go to the Costco Business Center (different than the regular Costco -- targeted to restaurants, delis, etc.), you can buy 10 to 15 pound choice boneless short ribs for $2.69 per lb. These ribs are double to triple the size of the short ribs I get from the regular Costco and I can trim them the way I like. They're also $0.80 to $1.30 per lb. cheaper than at the regular Costco. If you can use the entire case (75 lbs), then it drops to $2.49 per lb. Nothing special in the prep -- granulated garlic powder, onion powder, salt, pepper, fresh thyme, marjoram and rosemary and a nice slab of salted butter. 131F for 48 hours. On 1 effort, I tried it without the butter as suggested by Kenji Alt in the Serious Eats blog but for my taste, I do like the extra fat from the butter in there assuming you are aggressive in trimming the fat from the meat. The other effort had the extra butter and I decided I like it better that way.

2. Brisket (prime). Another "find" at Costco Business Center -- $3.19 per pound for USDA Prime brisket. This effort followed Kenji Alt's advice and so, it was trimmed aggressively, granulated garlic powder, onion powder, thyme, rosemary, marjoram and no butter. I bought some mixed herb plants at Costco a couple weeks ago and went a little heavy handed on the herbs on the brisket. Cooked at 135F for 48 hours. I typically cook brisket, pork shoulder, and tri-tip at 131F. The purpose of cooking it at 135F instead of my typical 131F was to see how different 4F degrees would make on the finished product as well as to see if there would be additional collagen breakdown.
When I pulled it, there was lots of liquid in the foodsaver bag -- 1/2 way up the bag. I cut the bag, drained the liquid into a sauce pan and boiled/strained the liquid and saved for later. The meat came out much too herby. Lesson learned -- do not use too much fresh herbs in SV. I know that this topic has been written about before but I learned first hand this time. Also, I learned that there is significant difference in perceived "juiciness" between 131F and 135F. The brisket was incredibly flavorful (too much herbs though) but next time will be done at 131F and for 36 hours. My alternative preparation on SV Short Ribs is to do my version of kalbi marinade with less salt, honey instead of sugar, worcestershire sauce, soy sauce, ginger, scallions, and a touch of sesame oil. I also do this with flap meat which seems to have jumped in price over 30% in the last 3 weeks.

3. Spare Rib cuttings. Typically, when I do ribs, I take a whole spare rib slab and cut it into St Louis Style ribs and then save the cuttings. They're great for stews, chili, nachos, or anything you might want pork shoulder/carnita like meat. Salt, pepper, gran garlic, onion powder, thyme, marjoram, and rosemary. Cooked it at 135F for 36 hours. Came out GREAT!!!. Just gnawed on the soft cartiledge and the meat was super flavorful and juicy. The meat came out like I wanted my brisket to come out. So, lesson learned -- higher temp on the fattier pork cuts (so not for pork chops or pork loin) results in better break down of the collagen without losing any juiciness.

4. Chicken Breast. Brined whole chicken breast, bone in, skin on, for 4 hours. Rinse, drained, added thyme, rosemary, marjoram, and foodsavered it. Cooked it for 2 hours at 135F with the Spare Rib cuttings. Took it out at the 2.5 hour mark and threw it immediately into the fridge for dinner the next night. I had previously done chicken breast at 140F for 3 hours and it came out fine. This time, I throw the chicken bag in to the Water Oven (with the spare rib cuttings that are still cooking) for 20 minutes to warm up. Take it out and make preliminary cut and totally raw on the inside. Not a little pink -- totally raw. Oh well, spare rib cuttings look good so I crank up the oven at 300F, and throw in the chicken breasts for 25 minutes. Came out great.

Lessons learned:
1. Temperature really matters. Certain cuts of meat, like fattier pork cuts, benefit from higher temperature. Other cuts of meat, even though it might be USDA Prime, like this brisket, prefer the lower temperature. 5F for cooking chicken is the difference between perfect and raw.
2. Need to learn how to use foodsaver or better yet, find old stock of ziplock freezer bags.
3. Amount of food cooking at one time matters. Stacking of food in Water Oven needs to be done carefully. One of the reasons why I believe the chicken was so raw was that I had the spare rib cuttings and the chicken cooking at the same time. I'm going to need a water bath and circulator before I can successfully SV larger amounts of food at the same time.
4. Less is better when using fresh herbs.

R0Y

[jk1002]

@ e_monster

I tried the same 93% fat burger at 56c and as you said it is coming out very much as a different thing. Well worth the wait, turned the burger from meh into something great I didn't want to stop eating.

Thanks for that hint.

[e_monster]

Glad that helped. You can individually pack your burgers and pasteurized a bunch at once. Then rapidly chill following the instructions in Doug Baldwin's sous-vide guide and freeze them. That way you won't have to wait so long when you want a sous-vide burger. Then when you want to eat a burger you won't have to leave then in the bath so long since they will be already pasteurized.

I also recommend experimenting with some ground chuck that has a somewhat higher fat content, too.

[dougal]

...

4. Chicken Breast. ... Took it out at the 2.5 hour mark and threw it immediately into the fridge for dinner the next night. ... I throw the chicken bag in to the Water Oven ... for 20 minutes to warm up.

You'll get a much faster (thus safer) quench, if you chill it in cold water. Even better is the advice to use ice with just a very little water.
And also, by using water, you avoid warming up all the other stuff in the fridge.

[RoyK]

dougal
Very good point. Just out of laziness. Now, a safety question. Let's assume you screw up like me and put it in the fridge or even leave it outside for a while.
2 potential situations:
1. Cooked for more than 4 hours (or the minimum based on temp and size of meat) following Doug Baldwin's tables and believe to be fully cooked. My understanding after reading Doug Baldwin's guide and this thread is that safety issues at that point are no different than safety issues with any other fully cooked food. So, there's no increased danger than if you serve chicken and leave it out on the table for 2 hours and then throw it in ziplock and into the fridge as leftovers.

2. Cooked less than the minimum. Now you have raw (or not fully cooked) product. Like me, you don't chill it and you just put it straight into the frig. If you finish this at 300F for sufficent cooking time to bring chicken to 150F using a meat thermometer, is this piece of meat safe to eat? Obviously, this does not work with red meat unless you like eating red meat at 150F, but I typically cook chicken to 150F or higher when cooking conventionally.

Thanks
R0Y

[Phaz]

Thanks again for all the tips.

I did some more expiramenting and learned that time is a big factor with SV cooking. I did some salmon for lunch today at 120 for 20 minutes which was amazing. It was almost a creamy texture, simply awesome.

Then for dinner I tried the steaks again. This time it was a 1.2 pound ribeye just a hair over an inch thick. I put it in at 125 for an hour and 20 minutes. I seared it briefly with the torch before putting it in. There was only a tiny bit of juice in the bag after it was done. I took the torch to it after and was quite impressed with the results. I'd say just about perfect:



Again my crappy iphone picture, but you get the idea. It looks smaller in the picture than it was, but that's right at about an inch thick. You can see the juice and the pink from end to end. Delicious.

One interesting tidbit though was on this ribeye I did trim the fat on the plate. I normally don't do that at all. The fat was very white in color and mushy, it just didn't look done or appetizing. When I grill these I usually eat them fat and all. What I found, was that the fat was actually really delicious, it was just a mental thing preventing me from eating it. I do steaks all the time but almost always ribeyes or fillets. I think this might give me an excuse to try out some NY strips or some of the leaner cuts. I also want to try some different seasonings. I used my normal stuff on this one and it was good, but not quite as good as when grilled, the meat itself was better quality, but the overall taste just didn't fit the seasoning.

[percyn]

Its been a while since I posted on this thread. I love breakfast, so decided to make soft scrambled eggs.

72 Degree Sous Vide Scrambled Egg
Blend 6-8 fresh eggs with a splash of half and half and a pinch of salt.

Place blended eggs in a food grade bag with a long neck and vacuum seal it (you can place bag over the countertop and seal it.



Placed it in the water bath. Started at 68 deg C and slowly kept increasing the temp until the eggs started to get to the desired consistency. For me that was between 72 and 73 degrees.


The consistency of the eggs once they came out of the water bath and were cooled. The eggs were super rich and err...eggy. There was a custard like consistency which made the eggs jiggle a bit even on the spoon. Beautiful.


I had to serve some on Toasts with White Truffle Butter


and what better way to use up some leftover Taiwanese pork belly and Sichuan chili chicken.

[e_monster]

Thanks again for all the tips.


One interesting tidbit though was on this ribeye I did trim the fat on the plate. I normally don't do that at all. The fat was very white in color and mushy, it just didn't look done or appetizing. When I grill these I usually eat them fat and all. What I found, was that the fat was actually really delicious, it was just a mental thing preventing me from eating it. I do steaks all the time but almost always ribeyes or fillets. I think this might give me an excuse to try out some NY strips or some of the leaner cuts. I also want to try some different seasonings. I used my normal stuff on this one and it was good, but not quite as good as when grilled, the meat itself was better quality, but the overall taste just didn't fit the seasoning.

When you seared, did you make sure to sear the fat nicely? It can be browned nicely with a torch and has a delicious flavor.

[e_monster]

Just a quick note that I did some experimenting with Snake River Farms Wagyu brisket cooked at 134 for 25, 31, and 48 hours. We found the differences between the 24 and 48 hour wagyu to be fairly minimal but preferred the 24 hour version as it was slightly juicier than at 48 hours -- but both were delicious and quite tender. The Wagyu brisket is the only one that I have cooked that was tender enough after 24 hours to be considered a success.

It was bagged with a few tablespoons of 6% brine and a cap of liquid smoke. Next time, I will put two caps of liquid smoke.

We ate it with creamed horseradish.

We also had some 48 hour boneless short ribs last week, and we have decided that we like them more than the brisket. The brisket is great but there is something about the short ribs that is almost sinful.

[Phaz]

Thanks again for all the tips.


One interesting tidbit though was on this ribeye I did trim the fat on the plate. I normally don't do that at all. The fat was very white in color and mushy, it just didn't look done or appetizing. When I grill these I usually eat them fat and all. What I found, was that the fat was actually really delicious, it was just a mental thing preventing me from eating it. I do steaks all the time but almost always ribeyes or fillets. I think this might give me an excuse to try out some NY strips or some of the leaner cuts. I also want to try some different seasonings. I used my normal stuff on this one and it was good, but not quite as good as when grilled, the meat itself was better quality, but the overall taste just didn't fit the seasoning.

When you seared, did you make sure to sear the fat nicely? It can be browned nicely with a torch and has a delicious flavor.

Yeah, I got as much of the fat as I could around the edges. The main issue was the fat on the inside of the steak which I could only get the top and bottoms of.

[RoyK]

e_monster:
How aggressively do you trim away the fat on the the brisket and the short ribs? As I said in the post above, I have these USDA Prime brisket that I'm going to try at 134F for 24 hours. I'm wondering if I should experiment with the fat cap on, or should I aggressively trim away the fat like I did the first one.

Also, now that I've experimented with shorts ribs quite a bit, I have to say that its a huge letdown eating short ribs at a restaurant that are braised vs. sous vide. The braised version tastes like pot roast, while SV short ribs properly, tastes like incredible steak. What I mean, is that the meat comes apart in strings for the "pot roast" style, while cooking it SV, you can slice it and the meat melts in your mouth.

Anybody else have comments?

What about the new freezer gallon ziplocks that I mentioned with the liner bag that seem really difficult to remove the air?

Thanks
R0Y

[Merridith]

I cooked Duck again tonight in the Sous Vide Supreme. 57.5C for 1.25 hours. This was a moulard duck breast I got from Hudson Valley Fois Gras. I have read several posts talking about how this kind of duck breast is tough and not good. Boy was I worried since I spent a lot of money getting those breasts. So, I am here to tell you this has not been my experience, at all. The first time I prep'd one of these breasts last week, I cooked it at 59C for 4 hours. It was good, and it was soft and tender and nice and pink but it was bordering on too soft (not steak-like) and I like mine more rare.



This time, at 57.5C, it came out exactly the right doneness. Also, by shortening up the cooking time, I got a product that had a more steak-like chew but it was not at all tough. It was like a perfectly cooked, tender ribeye. I removed the skin before bagging, seasoned the meat with salt and chinese 5 spice. I fried the skin in a skillet under a bacon press, after seasoning it with salt and Chinese 5 spice and served the crispy bacon-like pieces of fatty goodness right on top.

I served it with steamed parsnips which I glazed with a brown, nutmeg infused butter and haricots vert.

[e_monster]

e_monster:
How aggressively do you trim away the fat on the the brisket and the short ribs? As I said in the post above, I have these USDA Prime brisket that I'm going to try at 134F for 24 hours. I'm wondering if I should experiment with the fat cap on, or should I aggressively trim away the fat like I did the first one.

Also, now that I've experimented with shorts ribs quite a bit, I have to say that its a huge letdown eating short ribs at a restaurant that are braised vs. sous vide. The braised version tastes like pot roast, while SV short ribs properly, tastes like incredible steak. What I mean, is that the meat comes apart in strings for the "pot roast" style, while cooking it SV, you can slice it and the meat melts in your mouth

You need to trim aggressively. At 134F the fat will soften but it won't render. So you only want fat in there that you are going to want to eat. A thin layer (very thin) can be nice if you do a good job searing -- because the browned fat is very yummy. If I cook a whole brisket, I will reserve the fatty end for making hash.

The place where I get the Wagyu brisket trims it nicely but they only have the center cut. It is only $5.99 a pound which blows me away. It is the only brisket that I have done that is tender after 24 hours. Let us know how yours turns out. I have never tried prime-rated brisket.

[Paul Kierstead]

I seen some pork side ribs in a big pack for dirt cheap, so bought them hoping for a plan later :) Yesterday, tried doing a rack sous-vide; I used Baldwin's instructions and rub as a starting point. Did the brine overnight, then the sousvide during the day (80 C for about 11 hours). I must say, I was pleasantly surprised. I smoke ribs a lot during the summer and wasn't expecting a lot out of this technique (especially since I didn't have the greatest of luck with the smoking of side ribs, only back ribs). They don't taste the same as smoked, but they were extremely good with a little BBQ sauce. Very very succulent and moist and flavourful; a duck confit type texture and moistness (and richness of flavour). I'll likely use the meat for pulled-pork style sandwiches this evening, but I think I can foresee it in salads and just plain alone too.

[Guy MovingOn]

I cooked the pork gammon (ham) joint I posted about earlier at 60C for 24 hours. Beforehand, I marinaded it for 24 hours in a alcoholic cider, honey, and many other spices mixture.
I served it with some random vegetables leftover in the fridge, and reduced marinade to form a sauce.
The texture was nice, but honestly not that much superior to traditional cooking methods. Definitely not worth the time involved in the preparation. However, it could have been my technique, marinade, time/temp which caused the less than spectacular results.

iPhone Pic:





I was planning to cook beef brisket for 48 hours, but unfortunately it expired before I got a chance :(
However I defrosted some pork ribs... i forgot to brine them, but put them in the bag with some budweiser honey bbq marinade, some hickory liquid smoke, a mixture of smoked chilli salt and pepper, some dark soy sauce, and some normal cracked black pepper. Not really sure what that will taste like, but who cares? At the moment I'm just after amazing texture. Since I started the cooking at 12:30am, and planning to eat tomorrow evening, I chose a temperature of 72C. I guestimate they will be in there for about 20hours or so.
Will post results later :)





This was also the first time that I used my new Foodsaver V2860.
I have to say, despite just using the pulse mode and instant seal buttons, I was really impressed with the results! You can tell from the feel of the machine that it is well built. It also has a huge host of features and useful design. It managed to get almost all the air out, I was quite hesitant since there was quite a bit of marinade in the bag. However it sealed with absolutely no problem at all! I did a second seal, just in case!
It's really easy to use, comes with 2 instruction/guide booklets, has a vacuum canister, and a selection of bags and a long roll.

I would really recommend it to sous-vide newbies! Even though I have only been doing sous vide for less than 2 months, I was really really tempted to get a vacuum chamber machine, but now I really don't think I would need one at all!
Before this, I was submerging my ziploc bags in water and trying to squeeze out the air. The Foodsaver DEFINITELY beats this method!!!

[dougal]

...

This was also the first time that I used my new Foodsaver V2860.
I have to say, despite just using the pulse mode and instant seal buttons, I was really impressed with the results! You can tell from the feel of the machine that it is well built. It also has a huge host of features and useful design. It managed to get almost all the air out, I was quite hesitant since there was quite a bit of marinade in the bag. However it sealed with absolutely no problem at all! I did a second seal, just in case!
It's really easy to use, comes with 2 instruction/guide booklets, has a vacuum canister, and a selection of bags and a long roll.

I would really recommend it to sous-vide newbies! Even though I have only been doing sous vide for less than 2 months, I was really really tempted to get a vacuum chamber machine, but now I really don't think I would need one at all!
Before this, I was submerging my ziploc bags in water and trying to squeeze out the air. The Foodsaver DEFINITELY beats this method!!!

Well, I could say "I told you so".


There is a common misconception that "Foodsaver" specifies a specific product.
Its a RANGE of products. Or rather multiple ranges of products.
This one was the top end of the obsolescent 2000 series.
It makes a decently wide seal, and has 'damp sealing', seal now, pump while pressing ("pulse"), and variable pump speed. All worthwhile features for sv.
A full-auto machine is practically useless for sv. This has great manual control.
At clearance prices its a bargain.
Used with just a little care, its great as a domestic machine.
Only slight snag is the size of the 'neck' on the bag, a couple of inches, due to the geometry of the sealer.


To make sealing liquid stuff easier, use the slow pump speed, and have the machine raised slightly above your work surface, so the bag is "more upright". A stack of magazines makes an adjustable shelf, while you experiment.


BTW a good UK source for bags is Nisbets. http://www.nisbets.c...GroupCode=10806 but remember (trade supplier) prices don't show the VAT.

The V2860 package in the UK includes a rectangular vacuum box, which is great for vacuum marinading. (Save bags!)

[Guy MovingOn]

Ive been browsing the Nisbets site since there are a few other items I want to purchase, but I didn't realise their prices dont include VAT :(

My V2860 didnt include a rectangular box!!!!!!!! I just got a cylindrical vacuum canister, 5 small bags, 5 large bags, and a roll! I'm upset now!

Also I paid £108 including delivery. Do you think that was an ok price to pay?

[dougal]

Absolutely standard to quote prices without VAT when you expect to be selling to business people who are VAT registered -- for them its not a cost as its reclaimable.
Free delivery is of purchases over £70+VAT by phone (or £30+VAT online).
Nisbets will bombard you with catalogues after they have your address. (Good or bad, you decide.)

I thought the UK V2860's all had the rectangular one! Its ideal for marinating, but I'm sure you'll find plenty stuff to do with your jar.

That's almost exactly the same price as I paid a few months ago. I think its less than half what they were originally.

I'm very happy indeed with my purchase.

[Guy MovingOn]

Yes I understand the VAT exempt thing, I was just disappointed :(
I don't mind the catalogues, something interesting to read at least :)

BTW, when you do your vacuum marinading, you put the meat and marinade in the canister and vacuum on high... but then do you release the vacuum immediately to return the pressure so that the marinade can penetrate? Or just leave the canister with a vacuum applied?

Cheers!

[dougal]

...

BTW, when you do your vacuum marinading, you put the meat and marinade in the canister and vacuum on high... but then do you release the vacuum immediately to return the pressure so that the marinade can penetrate? Or just leave the canister with a vacuum applied?

Probably deserves its own thread.

However, marinade under (partial) vacuum ("sous vide" ).

I too reckon that the RE-pressurisation must drive the marinade in.
But originally, it was done in bags (minimising the marinade quantity) but basically a a single depressurisation.

I tend to vacuum, (sometimes wait a while), release, rearrange in the container, vacuum, leave to marinade, release and cook.

No idea if that is optimal. Always open to suggestions for improvement!

Beware that the V2860 isn't rated for continuous duty. (That's what commercial machines are about.) So give the motor a chance to cool off between exertions. Emptying a (much bigger than a bag) cannister on high speed pumping is about as hard as its life gets. Be kind to it! Don't vacuum/release/vacuum too often, too swiftly ...

[PedroG]

Don't mind the catalogues, something interesting to read at least :)

BTW, when you do your vacuum marinading, you put the meat and marinade in the canister and vacuum on high... but then do you release the vacuum immediately to return the pressure so that the marinade can penetrate? Or just leave the canister with a vacuum applied?

I guess meat does not contain air, so vacuum infusing meat with marinade will not have the same effect as vacuum infusing fruits and vegetables (see http://sousvide.wiki...bers_melons_etc and http://sousvide.wiki...Instant_rum_pot ). Marinade is said to penetrate 1cm/day. For vacuum-sealing meat with marinade see http://forums.egulle...ost__p__1699482 . If you want to cook with more liquid, just use ziploc-bags.

[jk1002]

I think also it is important that it is not just about penetration, marinades sometimes contain an acid component that helps tenderizing the protein.

I think the benefit of using bags and vacuum is that you will need much less marinade then if you float the protein in a container.

[Phaz]

I've had a chance now to try a few things and am starting to get the hang of SV. It seems like it takes a bit of trial/error to really get things right.

Here's a question I have for people, so far, I've been converting recipes I use (mostly on the grill) to SV, using the same kinds of rubs/marinades. They are either as good (like a steak with a dry rub that is better cooked but not quite as flavorful on the outside) or slightly worse (Like a couple salmon recipes I did SV that I normally do cedar plank, soy sauce/brown sugar & a hone/lime/mustard or some scrambled eggs I did).

What is the one kind of meat or recipe that I should try that will really show me the advantages of SV? Short ribs? Brisket? etc?