1176 replies to this topic

[alanjesq]

Of all the SV cooks I have done in the last six months, Which is when I first started SV, the Chicken Breast reigns supreme. ( no pun intended).

alanjesq

[jrshaul]

I'm curious - what's the go-to water heating method for DIY sous vide? I'm pretty handy with a soldering iron, but the old go-to of connecting two razor blades to line power and submerging them in water seems just a little crude.

[JBailey]

Merridith thank you for your thoughts on slow roasting a prime rib. One side of my oven is committed to the hotel pan with two turkeys and the other side is for some roasting and preparing of the sides. I have roasted with success many times and agree that the rendering/softening/and crusting imparts a marvelous flavor to the meat. Yet, I am fascinated by trying this sous vide.

Douglas, my appreciation and thanks to you for your comments. Yes, mine is a boneless prime rib choice cut from Costco. I am going for 8 to 12 hours (which means a middle of the night start) in my SVS. I may do about 140 F. I also found PedroG's turbo-aging links and thoughts informative.

My other question is about fat that was not trimmed off the meat at the store. Since the heat will be about 140 F, my experience is that the fat is soft, but unlike the results of conventional roasting. Logically, I want to trim the excess off the roast, but reserve it and place it on the meat when I vacuum seal it in my chamer vacuum. There would still be enough residual fat that when I sear the roast the exterior will bubble, crust and impart flavor with each slice. However, I find that with the lower sous vide temps that by the time it is carved or passed around the table the temperature of the slices is declining to room temperature (we are slow passers and eaters at our table). Will larding with the cut fat help flavor as the roast is done sous vide or is putting it back in the bag unnecessary? I am going to season, seal and put it back in the refrigerator, then awaken later to put it in the SVS.

I had written earlier about doing Phillip Preston's turkey breast recipe with sage and cider. I have two breast to pop into my SVP at 160 F for 4 hours followed by putting them in the oven at 350 F for 30 minutes (I cover mine in buttered cheese cloth while finishing in the over).

May everyone trying sous vide, thinking about sous vide, dreaming about sous vide or fortunate enough to be opening presents of sous vide equipment have a very MERRY CHRISTMAS!

[PedroG]

....
My other question is about fat that was not trimmed off the meat at the store. Since the heat will be about 140 F, my experience is that the fat is soft, but unlike the results of conventional roasting. Logically, I want to trim the excess off the roast, but reserve it and place it on the meat when I vacuum seal it in my chamer vacuum. There would still be enough residual fat that when I sear the roast the exterior will bubble, crust and impart flavor with each slice. However, I find that with the lower sous vide temps that by the time it is carved or passed around the table the temperature of the slices is declining to room temperature (we are slow passers and eaters at our table). Will larding with the cut fat help flavor as the roast is done sous vide or is putting it back in the bag unnecessary? I am going to season, seal and put it back in the refrigerator, then awaken later to put it in the SVS.
....

I like larding very much, see an earlier post. It's fine with veal or beef prime rib! So if you can cut the fat into strips and have a larding needle at hand, DIY (before bagging and cooking).
As SV meat is not very hot, always serve on warmed plates. You might post-sear the whole roast, slice for the first serving, (put the rest of the roast in a 55°C oven to await the second serving) and quickly sear every slice on both sides.

[PedroG]

I'm curious - what's the go-to water heating method for DIY sous vide? I'm pretty handy with a soldering iron, but the old go-to of connecting two razor blades to line power and submerging them in water seems just a little crude.

You find several links in my earlier post, or enter "immersion heater" into the search field and search "this topic", you will find several discussions.
Merry Xmas.
Pedro

[mark28209]

For my initial foray into SV, the combo of a PID with a very large slow cooker (has to be one with a simple on/off switch to work with the PID) was the most affordable approach (with a fish tank bubbler to circulate the water). All in about $50-75 for cooker and bubbler. And perfectly adequate to many, many SV tasks. BUT think ahead. You'll end up popping for $200-250 for the PID/cooker/bubbler combo and once you get the SV bug (which is highly contagious), you're going to want either a simpler to use, all in one device or a more powerful/larger set-up. IMHO.

[Chris Amirault]

A few attempts at making an ice cream base over here in my eG Foodblog. Following a recipe by Paula Wolfert, 82C for an hour. Also a trick for keeping a floating bag vertical in there (string is involved.) Will report there on results.

[gfweb]

Of all the SV cooks I have done in the last six months, Which is when I first started SV, the Chicken Breast reigns supreme. ( no pun intended).

alanjesq

For me, turkey benefits even more from SV. Breast is perfect every time (if turkey can ever be perfect).

[Kim D]

I've done turkey legs three times since Thanksgiving. This last time I also did turkey thighs. Slathered the meat with a bit of duck fat, 175 F for 6 or 8 hours. Simply incredible.

I would not have thought it possible to make something this good at home. I can honestly say I've never had better.

[paulpegg]

I am using a 1000 Watt bucket heater with great success. I built my first sous vide cooker using this heater in a larger cooler. You can read an article I wrote about it at Les Marmitonsnj Links page. The article is the second one in the list. This setup is based on the Seattle FoodGeek but has no soldering and allows more flexibility. You can have two pumps and two heaters for really large containers or just move the heater, pump and thermocouple to any convenient vessel you want to heat. You can also use smaller heaters for smaller vessels as well.


Good luck,

Paul

[PedroG]

Hi Paul,
welcome to eGullet!
Very smart solution for 165$! Price and tinkering time are between the 75$ and the 232$ solutions (see also at getsatisfaction.com).
In your detailed description you show your rig with a beverage cooler which is of course much better insulated than the stock-pot in your image above. Did you cut a notch in the lid to accomodate the heater and the cables, or how do you cover the bath to avoid evaporation in longtime cooking? With an uncovered bath you may easily evaporate 5 liters in 48 hours, see upthread.
Happy cooking!
Pedro

[Chris Amirault]

We're very excited to announce the beta version of an index to this sous vide topic. As stated in the beta header:

For many years, the Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques, & Equipment topic has been the best resource on the internet for information related to sous vide cooking and related subjects. It's one flaw? It's a massive, unwieldy behemoth, and there have been no good ways to negotiate it.

Until now. For months, eGullet Society volunteers have been working behind the scenes to build the index you see here. We hope that this will enable newcomers to sous vide, as well as grizzled, PID-adept experts, to explore the topic and its remarkable contents.

This topic will be open until Dec 31 for comment by Society members. Non-members can send their feedback to feedback@egullet.org.

On January 1, the index will be posted with any needed corrections and with comments removed, and the original SV topic will be closed so that a new topic can start.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

We hope that the terrific members who have contributed so much to this topic and to sous vide cooking with appreciate this recognition of their efforts, which will allow those unable to wade through thousands of post easy access to their recipes, rigs, discussions, and determinations.

[paulpegg]

Hi Paul,
welcome to eGullet!
Very smart solution for 165$! Price and tinkering time are between the 75$ and the 232$ solutions (see also at getsatisfaction.com).
In your detailed description you show your rig with a beverage cooler which is of course much better insulated than the stock-pot in your image above. Did you cut a notch in the lid to accomodate the heater and the cables, or how do you cover the bath to avoid evaporation in longtime cooking? With an uncovered bath you may easily evaporate 5 liters in 48 hours, see upthread.
Happy cooking!
Pedro

Pedro,

Thanks for your comments and links.

I did cut a notch in the cover of the cooler. It is just big enough to allow the wooden blocks that hold the heater to grab the edge of the cooler. I have not yet used it for a long cooking time but immediately saw that the uncovered surface was evaporating a lot of water. I am going to do 48 hour short ribs this weekend and will be monitoring the water loss closely.

The stock pot certainly is radiating a lot of heat but I have found that the temperature does not change at all. Initially I was using the PID as it came from the supplier and the temperature would overrun by a few degrees. After I set it up using the parameters I included in my article it is rock solid. The 1000 Watt heater has plenty of power to maintain the temperature and the controller does a great job of keeping it on the set point. I am using a Thermopen thermometer to check the accuracy and everything is spot on. I am really happy with the performance of this setup.

[VibeGuy]

I face a bit of a challenge; the first attempt turned out delicious, and nobody's dead, but I'd like some guidance...

Kroger (and their local affiliates QFC and Fred Meyer) has introduced a surprisingly clever product - they call it a "ready roast" turkey - I call it hours of knife work in a box. It's a smallish bird (I would guess on the order of 14 pounds or so) that is essentially brined and boned out (leaving skin, breast meat, thigh meat and bone-in legs), then stuffed (standard bread stuffing, with apples and dried cranberries). The whole affair is formed into an 8.5 lb oblate spheroid about 9" in diameter, with legs seductively arranged at a 45 degree angle to the mass, tied, and bagged in a heavy polyethylene-type bag. Retail price is $40, which I find laughable for factory poultry, but with on-pack coupons and in-store promos, I bit at $15. Color me curious.

The OEM instructions are to cook from frozen, venting the bag in five places, place in a roasting pan with an inch of water, and roast at 350F for 5 to 6 hours until the stuffing reads 165F. Said instructions make my head explode, as there's no way that bird would ever be moist and/or tender. Thus, I thawed the bird under flowing 40F water until poking at the bag and flexing the mass indicated I was pretty close to thawed. I then circulated it at 160F until I was dying of starvation, 4.5 hours. I removed the bag from the bath and allowed it to rest 15 minutes, then removed the bag and netting, wiped the skin clean and temped the bird with a two-point-calibrated Thermapen, at which point the breast and thigh meats both read 155F but the stuffing was a dismal 130F. I rubbed the skin with compound butter and roasted it at 350F until the stuffing read 160F, about 45 minutes.

It was frankly a reasonable success. Moist, juicy, even-textured; skin, while not crispy, had a pleasing chew and roasty flavors. The drippings responded nicely to the boil-strain-saute method and made a delicious if slightly salty gravy. I wanted to leave it in the bath longer, but hunger and the emerging desire for a sandwich of thigh, stuffing, cranberry and butter lettuce on homemade white, just after midnight, got the better of me. It was good enough and required so little hands-on time that I bought two more. (seriously, those sandwiches are my downfall).

My belief is that I would be better off with a longer circulation and finishing under the non-preheated broiler with the door open, no resting. Given a 45L preheated bath, should I skip the thawing step and just plunge bird into bath and walk away? How long would you anticipate I should circulate? Thermodynamics isn't my strong suit and my mechanical engineer partner thinks it's a ridiculous way to cook a turkey because it doesn't make the house smell delicious. He does, however, believe it makes a very moist breast.

E

[Lisa Shock]

I'd like to mention that canning jars can be used for sous vide instead of bags. There are standard sized and wide-mouth sized attachments for FoodSaver vacuum sealers the cost is around $10.

These jars are designed to be used in preserving food with both the water-bath canning method and the pressure canning method. They can easily withstand the temperatures of an immersion circulator, and, they hold a vacuum very well.

The jars themselves are obviously BPA-free. The lid is two parts: a metal retaining ring that is used for safety, and a metal lid that has a coated rubber ring fused to the underside. The underside of the lid has a very thin plastic coating which does contain BPA. However, since safe sealing of the jars requires about an inch of head room, or more, between the food and jar rim, the food will never come in contact with the lid. If operators are careful to not tip jars on their sides, exposure to BPA should be extremely limited.

For home canning, cooks are warned to discard the lids after one use. This is to ensure good, safe results with lids that are expected to hold a vacuum seal for a year or more in storage. For sous vide, I have been able to re-use lids for quite a while, I cannot say precisely how many uses. I wash them carefully by hand never use abrasive cleansers or abrasive sponges on them, and sanitize with a non-corrosive sanitizer. The main concern is how well they maintain vacuum. I check my vacuum before cooking, and before serving. Obviously, if the vacuum doesn't exist then I'm not accomplishing what I set out to do. Your results with lids may vary.

For several years now restaurants have been serving items in the jar itself, making plating easy. They provide structural support not possible with bags, so, layered dishes are possible, among other things. I have experimented at home with sauces, vegetable gratins, and scalloped potato variations in them.

In the US, they are available in many sizes, from several manufacturers. Common sizes include: 4 oz, half-pint, pint, quart, and half-gallon in regular and wide mouth versions. (These are the common names for the jar sizes as they appear on manufacturer labels, I know that the terminology isn't consistent.) Half-pint and 4oz jars are also available in a quilted jelly version, which has slightly thicker glass and an attractive outer texture. Boxes of jars generally come packed with one set of rings and lids for each jar. Extras can be purchased separately as sets of rings & lids or individually.

Jars are available at ordinary grocery stores, mass-market big-box retailers, some restaurant supply retailers, and some hardware stores. Prices vary by size, but most are available for under $2 per jar.

I hope this helps some of you get started experimenting with sous vide in jars!

[MartinH]

...
My belief is that I would be better with a longer circulation and finishing under the non-preheated broiler with the door open, no resting. Given a 45L preheated bath, should I skip the thawing step and just plunge bird into bath and walk away? How long would you anticipate I should circulate? Thermodynamics isn't my strong suit and my mechanical engineer partner thinks it's a ridiculous way to cook a turkey because it doesn't make the house smell delicious. He does, however, believe it makes a very moist breast.

E

I haven't cooked this kind of pre-prepped fowl before, but here's a couple of general responses. Mostly it's better with sous vide to cook different parts of the bird at different times/temps - so legs are better a bit hotter and longer than breasts. That's why most of the discussion is about cooking them separately. Thawing can indeed be skipped with sous vide. The reason: in sous vide outer parts will not overcook while inner parts stay frozen (as long as you cook it for enough time overall). For best times, check the tables upthread (and now more accessible via Chris Amirault's SV Index). No resting needed with SV. Browning the skin will be a challenge, since you cannot put it in a frying pan. I would think a blowtorch is the best option, since a broiler will probably not give an even browning. Skin areas further from the radiant heat are likely to remain unbrowned.

Hope this is of some help.

[VibeGuy]

The "resting" was more a case of "ponder sides, wait for oven to be free". I'm the only one around here who gets even remotely excited about turkey skin, so I may just torch the exposed stuffing to get a bit of crust. The finicky one doesn't care for dark meat, stuffing, skin or medium-rare white meat, so really I want to optimize the safety of the stuffing and get awesome dark meat. Also, there's really something to be said for a high-quality convenience product that I can just stick in the bath and walk away from - there are days that facing my FoodSaver Pro III seems unbearable.

Given the unusual shape and substantial size, I've read backwards to page 62 in toto, and I still haven't found a calculation method for spheroids - the infinite slab calculations don't seem to be applicable. Extrapolating a bit, I'm looking at temps between 160 and 170, and I'm guessing that 24 hours +- would have both the desired pasteurization and gustatory effects. What I really need to have more confidence in is that given the size and shape, I'm getting through the danger zones in an appropriate amount of time, even from frozen.

[e_monster]

I would think a blowtorch is the best option, since a broiler will probably not give an even browning. Skin areas further from the radiant heat are likely to remain unbrowned.

Hope this is of some help.

Blowtorches are not very effective for crisping/browning poultry skin -- I continue to try every once in a while but have never found it to be very satisfactory. (Blowtorching works great for beef, though).

For crisping the skin, a broiler is better than a blowtorch although it is not ideal.

Pour-over frying (which I haven't used) is often mentioned as ideal for this by people who have tried every possible method -- it is a bit messy and you have to be careful not to splatter oil all over yourself.

[e_monster]

...
Given the unusual shape and substantial size, I've read backwards to page 62 in toto, and I still haven't found a calculation method for spheroids - the infinite slab calculations don't seem to be applicable. Extrapolating a bit, I'm looking at temps between 160 and 170, and I'm guessing that 24 hours +- would have both the desired pasteurization and gustatory effects. What I really need to have more confidence in is that given the size and shape, I'm getting through the danger zones in an appropriate amount of time, even from frozen.

The big issue with big pieces like this is whether the center gets up to temperature fast enough. If the inside doesn't get up to temperature fast enough, it turns into an incubator.

[nickrey]

Blowtorches are not very effective for crisping/browning poultry skin -- I continue to try every once in a while but have never found it to be very satisfactory. (Blowtorching works great for beef, though).

For crisping the skin, a broiler is better than a blowtorch although it is not ideal.

Pour-over frying (which I haven't used) is often mentioned as ideal for this by people who have tried every possible method -- it is a bit messy and you have to be careful not to splatter oil all over yourself.

If pour over frying works, deep frying must as well. You'd just need to be very careful that the outside of the chicken piece was well dried to stop erupting oil going everywhere.

[DouglasBaldwin]

...
Given the unusual shape and substantial size, I've read backwards to page 62 in toto, and I still haven't found a calculation method for spheroids - the infinite slab calculations don't seem to be applicable. Extrapolating a bit, I'm looking at temps between 160 and 170, and I'm guessing that 24 hours +- would have both the desired pasteurization and gustatory effects. What I really need to have more confidence in is that given the size and shape, I'm getting through the danger zones in an appropriate amount of time, even from frozen.

I link to a chart I made for heating spheres, cylinders, and slabs in this post.

[VibeGuy]

I am barely allowed to shallow-fry at home after a memorable potatoes parisienne incident the first time I had him over for dinner. Nothing makes for an awkward date quite like a grease fire....(fyi, cold dry potato balls turn into cold wet potato balls if it's a humid day and you linger over a glass of wine - jus' sayin'). I am still allowed to do deep-fried whole pork loins at friends' houses if their homeowner's insurance is paid. Since I'm the only one who gets excited about the skin, it's no big deal if the browning is a little mottled.

Back to the OEM directions. Given their open-to-atmosphere bag roasting method and "350F for 5 to 6 hours to reach 165 with a few cups of water in the pan to get things started" instructions, I'm guessing that in 350F saturated air, the time between 40 and 140 is borderline four hours (its at least an hour from "fully frozen" and it took 45 minutes to get from 130 to 160. So, does anyone have a resource or method for calculating the heat transfer difference between air / saturated air at a given temperature and water at a given temperature?

E

[VibeGuy]

I link to a chart I made for heating spheres, cylinders, and slabs in this post.

Oooh! How I missed that is beyond me. I reviewed your guide earlier to come up with the range of 160 to 170 (effective pastuerization, esp. of the sketchy stuffing meets the time/temp requirements for tender dark meat). The way I read that chart is that it's the time to reach equilibrium temperature with the bath given a particular shape.

Is there a similar chart (or, better, an equation) that models the specific case of frozen-to-long-cook, where the bath temperature is > pasteurization temperature? Stated another way, I'd like to model a system where for, a given shape with "forcing dimension" X, Starting Temperature Tstart and bath temp Tbath, the time to a given temperature of interest Tinst is calculated, including accounting for the heat required to make the phase change if Tstart<1C

E
(edited for clarity)

Edited by VibeGuy, 29 December 2010 - 07:56 PM.

[DouglasBaldwin]

I link to a chart I made for heating spheres, cylinders, and slabs in this post.

Oooh! How I missed that is beyond me. I reviewed your guide earlier to come up with the range of 160 to 170 (effective pastuerization, esp. of the sketchy stuffing meets the time/temp requirements for tender dark meat). The way I read that chart is that it's the time to reach equilibrium temperature with the bath given a particular shape.

Is there a similar chart (or, better, an equation) that models the specific case of frozen-to-long-cook, where the bath temperature is > pasteurization temperature? Stated another way, I'd like to model a system where for, a given shape with "forcing dimension" X, Starting Temperature Tstart and bath temp Tbath, the time to a given temperature of interest Tinst is calculated, including accounting for the heat required to make the phase change if Tstart<1C

E
(edited for clarity)

The usual suggestion for cooking from frozen verse thawed is increase the time by half; in many cases, this works quite well.

As for a formula for the time.... With some knowledge of Fourier series methods and Sturm–Liouville problems, you can fairly easily find a formal solution of the heat equation for a sphere, cylinder, or slab. Indeed, several students in the upper-division engineering math course I TAed last semester did it as part of their class project. Solving the heat equation from frozen is not as easy. From thawed is a linear problem while the from frozen is a nonlinear problem (since the thermal diffusivity is highly nonlinear near the freezing point); nonlinear problems are much harder to solve than linear problems; so most people approximate it as two linear problems with a moving boundary condition and it's referred to as the Stefan problem --- needless to say, all of this is way beyond the scope of this forum and is why Nathan and I give tables instead of formulas.

[VibeGuy]

Thankfully the Vibe in my nick has absolutely nothing to do with the vibraphone, nor do I think Eigenvalue is an Austrian marketer of low-cost Gruner Vetliner. While partial differential equations aren't exactly my idea of a good time; neither do they scare me, per se - I just didn't want to reinvent the wheel where avoidable.

I'd actually moved in the direction of the Stefan task late this evening, because I recognized the moving-boundary condition of a thawed layer of continually increasing thickness riding on the solid core of continually diminishing thickness, and promptly realized that I needed both another glass of wine and to reconsider abandoning the modelling approach for a more experimental one.

Still, backing up once again, trying to find a generalizable approach to a specific problem...how are people approaching the issues of time spent in the temperature range from 5C to 54C in frozen-to-long cook applications? Is reduction of cross-section really the most-viable method? I'm somewhat loathe to open the package to get a probe in the middle, but that's looking like the lowest-hanging fruit right now.

E, realizing that the love of a sandwich has morphed into something else entirely when mustard is replaced by math

[infernooo]

Just another datapoint to add to the wealth of experimental knowledge.

Disclaimer: Descriptions are subjective, cuts of meat used can and will result in varying degrees of similarity to my results.

BOTH WERE COOKED AT 55.7c (132.26F)

Chuck steak purchased from Coles supermarket each piece approximately 1.2cm thick (0.5"), 10cm x 6cm (4" x 2.4") length x width (grain running width ways, i.e. 2.4" long), 90 grams (3 ounces):

24 hours - Rare texture, after first bite, "blood" (I know it's not blood, but it is shorter than saying "protein saturated water from the meat" or "a combination of the water in the muscle & pigment from the muscle cells") started coming to the bitten surface. Some parts soft and very tender and I would consider perfect, however other parts of the steak were still noticably chewy from connective tissue. Definitely needs longer for most parts. Fat is soft but not rendered.
48 hours - TBD Tonight
72 hours - TBD Tomorrow Night

Veal spare ribs (cut into separate ribs, appearance similar to pork spare ribs with cartilage at the thick end running width-ways) purchased from Joes Meat Market (average butcher, meat quality perhaps in between supermarket cheapest and medium grade butcher), approximately 1cm thick at thin end (0.4"), 3cm thick at thick end (1.2"), 13cm x 3cm (5.11" x 1.2") length x width, 200g (7 ounce):


24 hours - Rare texture, some parts deeper in closer to the bone soft in almost a mushy way. Membrane still completely inedible (chewy as a rubber band), some parts perfect texture, others too chewy (as above with chuck steak). Definitely needs longer even though it is "tender" veal. Bone still very hard, cartilage still very hard. Fat softened but not rendered.
48 hours - TBD Tonight
72 hours - TBD Tomorrow Night

[technophile50]

For the "ready roast" turkey, I'd be inclined to finish it by removing the stuffing and microwaving it in a shallow layer in a pyrex baking pan to 160+, then restuffing and browning the skin in a 450 preheated oven. It would probably be quicker, and less likely to overcook the meat while bringing the stuffing to temperature - plus you get to use 3 pieces of equipment - sous vide, microwave, and oven &;>).

It's interesting that the Kroger website recommends -
"Can I stuff the turkey the night before?
To be safe, stuffing a turkey is not recommended. For more even cooking and to prevent the spread of bacteria, it’s best to cook stuffing in a casserole dish according to the package or recipe directions."

FWIW, I often split a turkey in half, smoke over charcoal and green applewood cuttings while preparing nuked stuffing, then reassemble the bird plus hot stuffing and finish in the microwave. The steamy stuffing cooks a moist bird from the inside, while the brown/smoked skin stays crisp, and juice/fat renders into the microwave dish for making gravy.

[Guy MovingOn]

Nathan, I recall that one of the controversies of the book is the statement that steamed duck brushed with duck fat tastes the same as duck confit. People didn't believe this, but blind tasting showed that they couldn't tell which was which.


Many people also say that duck confit "matures" and improves over time by being stored in the duck fat. Do you think this is true?

[nathanm]

Nathan, I recall that one of the controversies of the book is the statement that steamed duck brushed with duck fat tastes the same as duck confit. People didn't believe this, but blind tasting showed that they couldn't tell which was which.


Many people also say that duck confit "matures" and improves over time by being stored in the duck fat. Do you think this is true?

Yes, what you say above is covered in the book. We did blind tastings and could not tell the difference between confit cooked in a steam over or sous vide without fat, then had fat put on at the end. The temperature you cook at and the time matter, but whether it is immersed in oil during cooking does not matter.

Duck confit is a cured meat product that was originally done for preservation - you salt the duck to cure it, then cook it, then (traditionally) you store it in a cool place in the congealed fat which was a sort of oxygen barrier, a bit like sous vide packaging.

During that storage, the fat will oxidize a bit (i.e. get slightly rancid), which you definitely can taste. However you can achieve that by putting aged fat on the meat.

[runwestierun]

Just to let you know how mainstream this is becoming, Costco online now offers the Sous Vide Supreme with a vacuum sealer, bags and a cookbook.

http://www.costco.co...matchallpartial