1176 replies to this topic

[therippa]

Doing them Sous Vide will work but seems over kill when tey can be done just as well on a hob, with good control and stirring. Or use a thermomix or the new kenwood if you want to do custards etc, with no attention they are perfect for that.

Far from being overkill, I find it easier to do a custard (defined broadly) by the SV method rather than in the traditional ways on the stove top or in the oven. Wouldn't it be overkill to purchase a thermomix or a new kenwood for this when a SV set up does the job just fine?

May I add that SV more generally is not unnecessary, not overkill, not more than is needed to do the job for the simple reason that it is often the best way to do the job.

I sv'd custard once for ice cream, and it was the best batch of ice cream I've ever made. Only complaint is how the bag fills with air unless you have a chamber vacuum...what would be handy are bags with one way valves so the air can escape, but I think that'd be overkill

[FoodMan]

Doing them Sous Vide will work but seems over kill when tey can be done just as well on a hob, with good control and stirring. Or use a thermomix or the new kenwood if you want to do custards etc, with no attention they are perfect for that.

Far from being overkill, I find it easier to do a custard (defined broadly) by the SV method rather than in the traditional ways on the stove top or in the oven. Wouldn't it be overkill to purchase a thermomix or a new kenwood for this when a SV set up does the job just fine?

May I add that SV more generally is not unnecessary, not overkill, not more than is needed to do the job for the simple reason that it is often the best way to do the job.

I sv'd custard once for ice cream, and it was the best batch of ice cream I've ever made. Only complaint is how the bag fills with air unless you have a chamber vacuum...what would be handy are bags with one way valves so the air can escape, but I think that'd be overkill

Yeap. Certainly not overkill! I have not made ice cream custard base on the stove top in a long time. SV is just ideal. I use the Pulse feature to get more or less a perfect air-free seal using the FoodSaver and I cook at about 82 C per the instructions in Under Pressure. I think my favorite part, in addition to how simple the whole thing is, is that the sealed bag is not pasteurized and can rest in the fridge for quiet some time until I am ready to churn.

[FoodMan]

I am looking to cook some quinces and am wondering what the consensus for timing would be. I think about 85C is fine for temp, but quince is hard and am not sure if I should go for a couple of hours or more. Ideas?

[Chris Birkett]

Hi Chris! I have to say that I've been happy with my FoodSaver (click here for information) and think that there's no need for a home user to upgrade to anything much more than that.

I'm wondering more specifically whether the SVS vac sealer is so basic that it's not worth considering, even cheaply, instead of a basic Foodsaver unit that's more expensive. I will definitely be trying out the Ziploc bag technique, but I don't want to pay extra for a vac sealer that's a waste of money, and I have to decide up front since I live in Canada (shipping is $80 per order). It seems like a lot of people use the pulse feature on their Foodsavers, which the SVS model doesn't have. I am happy to spend a bit extra on a Foodsaver if it's more useful for sous vide.

[FoodMan]

Hi Chris! I have to say that I've been happy with my FoodSaver (click here for information) and think that there's no need for a home user to upgrade to anything much more than that.

I'm wondering more specifically whether the SVS vac sealer is so basic that it's not worth considering, even cheaply, instead of a basic Foodsaver unit that's more expensive. I will definitely be trying out the Ziploc bag technique, but I don't want to pay extra for a vac sealer that's a waste of money, and I have to decide up front since I live in Canada (shipping is $80 per order). It seems like a lot of people use the pulse feature on their Foodsavers, which the SVS model doesn't have. I am happy to spend a bit extra on a Foodsaver if it's more useful for sous vide.

My suggestion is to skip theirs and either just use Ziploc bags or spend the extra cash on a better FoodSaver with Pulse. I use that Pulse feature 99% of the time honestly because even "dry" items will still leach liquid once you push that "Vaccum" button.

[therippa]

Doing them Sous Vide will work but seems over kill when tey can be done just as well on a hob, with good control and stirring. Or use a thermomix or the new kenwood if you want to do custards etc, with no attention they are perfect for that.

Far from being overkill, I find it easier to do a custard (defined broadly) by the SV method rather than in the traditional ways on the stove top or in the oven. Wouldn't it be overkill to purchase a thermomix or a new kenwood for this when a SV set up does the job just fine?

May I add that SV more generally is not unnecessary, not overkill, not more than is needed to do the job for the simple reason that it is often the best way to do the job.

I sv'd custard once for ice cream, and it was the best batch of ice cream I've ever made. Only complaint is how the bag fills with air unless you have a chamber vacuum...what would be handy are bags with one way valves so the air can escape, but I think that'd be overkill

Yeap. Certainly not overkill! I have not made ice cream custard base on the stove top in a long time. SV is just ideal. I use the Pulse feature to get more or less a perfect air-free seal using the FoodSaver and I cook at about 82 C per the instructions in Under Pressure. I think my favorite part, in addition to how simple the whole thing is, is that the sealed bag is not pasteurized and can rest in the fridge for quiet some time until I am ready to churn.

I was talking more about how the bag fills with air while you SV it...I released it twice, was afraid it wouldn't cook evenly if I didn't since it displaced so much space.

[alanjesq]

Does Hollendaise sauce = custard?? Anyone tried to make SV???

[Paul McMichael]

Doing them Sous Vide will work but seems over kill when tey can be done just as well on a hob, with good control and stirring. Or use a thermomix or the new kenwood if you want to do custards etc, with no attention they are perfect for that.

Far from being overkill, I find it easier to do a custard (defined broadly) by the SV method rather than in the traditional ways on the stove top or in the oven. Wouldn't it be overkill to purchase a thermomix or a new kenwood for this when a SV set up does the job just fine?

May I add that SV more generally is not unnecessary, not overkill, not more than is needed to do the job for the simple reason that it is often the best way to do the job.

I sv'd custard once for ice cream, and it was the best batch of ice cream I've ever made. Only complaint is how the bag fills with air unless you have a chamber vacuum...what would be handy are bags with one way valves so the air can escape, but I think that'd be overkill

Yeap. Certainly not overkill! I have not made ice cream custard base on the stove top in a long time. SV is just ideal. I use the Pulse feature to get more or less a perfect air-free seal using the FoodSaver and I cook at about 82 C per the instructions in Under Pressure. I think my favorite part, in addition to how simple the whole thing is, is that the sealed bag is not pasteurized and can rest in the fridge for quiet some time until I am ready to churn.

I was talking more about how the bag fills with air while you SV it...I released it twice, was afraid it wouldn't cook evenly if I didn't since it displaced so much space.

I have been using the SV water bath as a heat source for ice cream base for the last few months - works great. I messed with bags just once. I now use a quart jar with a plastic storage cap. Simple and easy. After the custard thickens (about an hour) the jar can go into an ice bath if I am in a hurry or just into the fridge to churn the next day.

[MartinH]

Does Hollendaise sauce = custard?? Anyone tried to make SV???

A "quasi-custard" perhaps? It is similar to a custard being egg-thickened, but water-based rather than milk-based. I haven't tried it SV, but I can think of two different ways to do it. Either cook the egg+liquid then whisk in the butter; or, slightly warm the egg+liquid enough to blend in the butter and then cook. No idea if either works.

[ScottyBoy]

Hollandaise is an emulsification. I wouldn't think SV would have any use in making that sauce.

[Corymoto]

FYI - The Modernist Cuisine website has an 'about the book' pdf file that has a recipe for Sous Vide Instant Hollandaise. I made it about a week ago, worked very well, pretty foolproof. Here's a link.

[epicureanrebel]

my thoughts exactly but it only uses sv to cook the egg with the wine reduction, then removing it and blending in butter as usual. So i think its could work i'm going to try it, the book it comes from is very interesting and with a $625 dollar list price with recipes from Grant Achatz and some of the other great food scientist, it looks promising gonna try it wednsday i will post pics and recipe we will see how it gos.

[HiRoller]

Curious to know how our experts would handle this...

It looks like I'll have more guests than expected for Thanksgiving. Keeping with tradition, I'll be doing a fried turkey. Can't go with a larger turkey because of the limitations of the fryer, so I thought I'd do some extra turkey legs on the side. I love SV'd turkey legs. But the wife wants them to have crispy skin. Turkey legs come out of the bag so moist that frying the legs directly afterwards would be difficult, if not dangerous. Not sure that merely patting them dry would be enough. I could SV them the day before, let them dry out in the fridge and then throw them in the fryer the next day until they come up to temperature, but I'm not sure that they wouldn't be overcooked in the fry process. Any thoughts?

TIA.

[therippa]

Since the meat will be cold from being refrigerated overnight, I would put them in a warm oven until the meat comes up to plating temperature, then throw them in the fryer. They'd only need a couple of minutes and wouldn't (shouldn't) overcook.

Just curious, what temp are you doing the legs at? If you're doing it confit style (176F), you won't have to really worry about it overcooking anyway.

edit: readability

Edited by therippa, 17 November 2010 - 12:47 PM.

[HiRoller]

I will be cooking them for 10-12 hrs at 180F. I'm not worry about overcooking during the SV portion, but overcooking while bringing it up to temp in the fryer. Your suggestion would resolve that - assuming that warming doesn't bring juices back to the surface...

[therippa]

I will be cooking them for 10-12 hrs at 180F. I'm not worry about overcooking during the SV portion, but overcooking while bringing it up to temp in the fryer. Your suggestion would resolve that - assuming that warming doesn't bring juices back to the surface...

Even if juices come to the surface, most of it would be fat which would just meld with the fat in the fryer. I think your legs will turn out crispy as hell :)

[Paul Kierstead]

FYI - The Modernist Cuisine website has an 'about the book' pdf file that has a recipe for Sous Vide Instant Hollandaise. I made it about a week ago, worked very well, pretty foolproof. Here's a link.

I'm very interested in your results. Looking at another's results, I wonder if you had the same 'foam' outcome ... the recipe calls for a siphon (I presume a soda siphon?) and the blogger used a "whip" which I am guessing is a whipped cream dispenser, which is quite likely a different outcome? I have no idea about these devices.

Was yours foamy?

[PedroG]

HiRoller,
did you read the turkey throw down ?
Maybe a blowtorch instead of a broiler would do the job as well.

[Montreal]

I have now a shoulder pork roast in the 59.5 C bath for the last 27 hours. The temp in the center has been at 59.5 c for several hours.

The amount of callogen transforming is incredible.. It seem that the piece is actually melting. Is there a rule on how many hours I should let it sit at that temp ?

It seems to be a consensus on ribs at 48 hours

Tks in advance for your help

[PedroG]

I have now a shoulder pork roast in the 59.5 C bath for the last 27 hours. The temp in the center has been at 59.5 c for several hours.

The amount of callogen transforming is incredible.. It seem that the piece is actually melting. Is there a rule on how many hours I should let it sit at that temp ?

It seems to be a consensus on ribs at 48 hours

Tks in advance for your help

See upthread, 48h/55°C is fine, at 59.5°C somewhere between 24h and 36h may do.

[PedroG]

Sous Vide Thickness ruler revisited, post 3711
I was not satisfied by the stiffness of the cardboard I had at hand, now here's the final solution, sacrificing an old lever arch file:

To download the PDF, follow the this link.

[Corymoto]

FYI - The Modernist Cuisine website has an 'about the book' pdf file that has a recipe for Sous Vide Instant Hollandaise. I made it about a week ago, worked very well, pretty foolproof. Here's a link.

I'm very interested in your results. Looking at another's results, I wonder if you had the same 'foam' outcome ... the recipe calls for a siphon (I presume a soda siphon?) and the blogger used a "whip" which I am guessing is a whipped cream dispenser, which is quite likely a different outcome? I have no idea about these devices.

Was yours foamy?

Yes, I had very similar results. I did scale the recipe down a little bit for the amount of yolk I had on hand and used citric instead of malic acid. I used a thermowhip (not a soda siphon) just like the linked blogger.

I assume the foamy-ness is kinda the point of using a siphon (that and being able to hold it and dispense as required as the blogger pointed out...). It is a thick and rich foam, but seemed maybe a little 'lighter' than the traditional sauce. Maybe only 'lighter' in that it is less dense and as such, you may end up using less on a mass basis..? It was good on omelettes.

[alanjesq]

Michael Voltaggio in his sous video for Williams Sonoma sv's turkey thighs in duck fat. No clue where to purchase in St. Louis, but chicken fat is readily available. In his video he recommends using the fat nearest the product he is cooking. I would think chicken fat would be similar to duck fat. Any thoughts???

[Merridith]

Michael Voltaggio in his sous video for Williams Sonoma sv's turkey thighs in duck fat. No clue where to purchase in St. Louis, but chicken fat is readily available. In his video he recommends using the fat nearest the product he is cooking. I would think chicken fat would be similar to duck fat. Any thoughts???

You can order duck fat from Hudson Valley (and other wonderful and reasonably priced things). They send it REALLY fast, too!

In St. Louis, try the Wine & Cheese Place in Clayton, Local Harvest Grocery in the City or Winslow's Home in U City. Another possiblity is to call The Shaved Duck restaurant and see about getting some from them. If that does not work, put out an APB on StLBites.com and those great folks will probably be able to help you. I think that I have seen it around here (St. Louis) but I just can't recall where.

All that having been said, chicken fat is much more delicate than duck fat. It breaks down more easily in the rendering, I think. It liquifies instantly whereas duck fat stays coagulated much longer. I would suggest using good fresh lard as a duck fat replacement.

[nathanm]

Here are some replies or comments on recent posts.

The "siphon" in the instant hollandaise recipe is a cream whipping siphon, such as ISI or Liss. A soda siphon won't work. The point of this recipe is that you can make a hollandaise foam that is foamed to order. You can of course just make the hollandaise in a blender.

I prefer pork ribs at 60C/140F for 48 hours, but everybody has their own notion of what "ideal" means.

Duck fat is great stuff - you can render your own, or buy it. However, there is really not much point in cooking with large amounts of it. Just a small amount puts the flavor in. You can even cook without out (sous vide in a bag with no oil) then dress with some duck fat at the end. The turkey thighs (from the Voltaggio video) will come out the same either way - it is not necessary to have a lot of duck fat.

The point of the duck fat is flavor at the end of the cooking process - that's all. Chicken fat would also be good tasting - but a very different taste. Frankly if you are looking for flavorful fat, cook the thighs/legs sous vide then dress with rendered bacon fat at the end.

Reheating something cooked sous vide, then chilled is best done using sous vide again. That avoids overcooking. You can then sear at the very end, or in the case of a fryer, fry at the end. The warm oven suggestion will also work, but harder to control.

[MartinH]

Michael Voltaggio in his sous video for Williams Sonoma sv's turkey thighs in duck fat. No clue where to purchase in St. Louis, but chicken fat is readily available. In his video he recommends using the fat nearest the product he is cooking. I would think chicken fat would be similar to duck fat. Any thoughts???

I don't put duck fat (or chicken fat) in the bag because the meat gives off juices and then those fats just get poured away at the end with the liquids. It seems like a waste of good fat.

Not sure that using the fat "nearest" the product is best. Butter drizzled over meat is superb, but butter fat isn't "near" any meat.

Duck fat is easier to render than other fats because it melts at a relatively low temperature. Put some fatty duck skin in a bag, SV at 70 to 80, and lots a delicious fat is released.

[Borgstrom]

Michael Voltaggio in his sous video for Williams Sonoma sv's turkey thighs in duck fat. No clue where to purchase in St. Louis, but chicken fat is readily available. In his video he recommends using the fat nearest the product he is cooking. I would think chicken fat would be similar to duck fat. Any thoughts???

In a trial run for Thanksgiving, I made some turkey confit tonight based on Keller's approach for duck confit. They turned out awesome - definitely a keeper in my growing sous vide repertoire!

The night before, I processed some kosher salt and fresh thyme together and packed around two whole turkey leg/thighs. I bagged these, vacuum sealed and kept in fridge overnight.

In the morning I rinsed the turkey off well with cold water, patted dry and bagged again with three tablespoons of duck fat. After vacuum sealing, I put in the water bath at 82C for 10 hours.

Just before dinner, I took them out of the water bath & de-bagged. The meat was falling-off-the-bone tender and very juicy. I tried doing a quick fry to crisp up the skin and add some crunchy bits, but the meat just fell apart in the hot oil. I ended up just lifting the limp skin off the meat and frying it separately into a nice crispy sheet to serve with the meat. Yum!

Edit: I actually got the duck fat from Amazon.com! It's really amazing what you can get there...

Edited by Borgstrom, 19 November 2010 - 10:42 PM.

[Chris Amirault]

Thanks for the particulars, Borgstrom. I'm going to try this method for the big day....

[nathanm]

Monday we will be posting a recipe for turkey wings to the Modernist Cuisine blog for turkey wings cooked sous vide - you cure them with salt first (as for duck confit) then you cook them 12 hours at 58C/137F for 12 hours.

[travellin chef]

Hi All,
This is my first post but I've been reading this site, especially this thread, for quite some time...
First off, thanks to all on this thread for the wealth of information -it's unbelievable! Special thanks to Douglas Baldwin, nathanm, and Pedro for their hard work and research. Can't wait for 'Modernist Cuisine'!

I was hoping for a bit of clarification...

We're serving an Atlantic Ocean Trout at the moment and I want to be sure that it is as safe as possible...
Upon arrival the trout is cleaned, then cured with citrus, herbs, salt, sugar, and honey for 3hrs. Next it is portioned and cooked sous-vide in clarified butter @45C for 25min. We use a chamber type professional vacuum pac machine and a Polyscience 7306. Calibration is routinely checked with infrared and digital stick type thermometers. The trout is immediately chilled in an 80% ice bath, then is held on ice for a maximum of 48hrs. Any unsold pcs are discarded. For service, they are re-heated in a 45C bath for 5min and served. The portions are generally 15-20mm thick, around 50g. Guests are advised that the trout is served mi-cuit; not for pregnant ladies or immune compromised individuals.

Hygeine is quite strict in the country where I am at the moment so I have sent some samples to the lab for validation; would rather be safe than sorry!

My question is for the scientifically minded of the group: is this method as safe as can be, aside from serving the fish well-done? Am I being over-cautious by discarding un-sold portions after 2 days?

Thanks in advance!

Cheers.