1176 replies to this topic

[therippa]

Can finally get ahold of serious meat wholesale. Some Snake River Farms Kobe short ribs. See you in 48 hours meat!

Christ those look spectacular...I see you live in Oakland, can I drive over the bridge and have some of those Friday?

[IndyRob]

Holy crap. That's some serious food porn. It looks like butter with some meat in it.

Anyway, regarding Keller's book, the thing I found after I got it is that he's maddeningly specific about ingredients. If you're not willing or able to get your radishes from "Jermaine, under the 146th street bridge, between the hours of 2:00PM and 4:00PM on Wednesday or Thursday" then all bets are off. Yes, that's an exaggeration. But not far off.

I learned a couple of valuable facts (primarily that you can overcook sous vide) and some interesting techniques, but won't be cooking through it.

[eac]

Yes, but if you *do* go there between 2 and 4 pm, the results are spectacular.

I did drive to Sonoma County Poultry and personally talk to his duck man Jim Reichardt to pick up a duck, and got regaled with accounts of how (paraphrased) he asked Corey Lee whether you really have to use all that salt to cure the duck legs for duck confit, and they said no, not really, it's jus to fill the container and make sure all the surfaces have salt touching them. And the duck was noticeably better than the duck I tried from other places.

So the specificity of ingredients isn't all bad. And the stuff worked just fine with the other ducks. It was still spectacular, but didn't have that extra oomph from the super-duper duck.

[jaymer]

I just wanted to report that this method of rendering lard --

[I]f you really want to render the fat well you must grind or homogenize the fat with water first. Put the fat to render in a blender with water (nearly to cover). Blend it until it is very fine and smooth.

...

4. Seal the fat-shake mix in a sous vide bag and cook in a water bath or other method at 180F/82C for 12 hours. The fat can be poured off the top. If you clip the top corner off the bag, you can pour the fat off pretty well.

--

works like a charm. Be sure to blend that fat up well: I didn't get too worried about the few chunks that didn't get whipped to pork mayonnaise in the blender, but 12 hours later those bits hadn't rendered much at all.

Chris
Daily, I have a Winston CVAP thats running around 205 for retherm purposes. Would be a whole lot easier for me to put "fat shakes" into this.
Do you have any idea what the difference would be compared to 180 deg. heat?
thx

[nathanm]

205 will be fine for fat rendering.

[nathanm]

There is a big article on my cookbook in the issue of Food Arts that just came out.

Also, the publication of the book has been delayed.

[ScottyBoy]

Awe delayed? I'll have to pick up that food arts.

Edited by ScottyBoy, 16 September 2010 - 09:46 PM.

[percival]

Scotty, that is some amazing wagyu. I've had SRF wagyu before, in Idaho. Best beef I've ever had. I'm in the Bay Area, too. Where can I find that stuff wholesale?

[ScottyBoy]

If you go to Golden Gate Meat Co. on 7th street, not the ferry building but the main plant. Even though you aren't a restaurant just say that you'd like to fill out a credit app. Tell them you just want to do "Will call, C.O.D." So that means you pick it up and pay cash when you do. I don't they care if you're a restaurant or not because you aren't running on credit. It's literally 60% less than on the SRF website.

Edited by ScottyBoy, 17 September 2010 - 08:22 AM.

[ScottyBoy]

The 30 minute editing window throws me off sometimes...

Just to add, sous vide vegetables are just plain awesome. The fact that I can cook, shock and transport to my event with perfect results every time makes my job a lot easier.

[KennethT]

Those look great... I've had mixed results with veggies... asparagus at 180F=yuck, but at 140 or 150 (I forget which) they're fantastic...

What were temps and times for yours?

[ScottyBoy]

I can put both in at 183 for 40 minutes and they're perfect. A little butter salt and sugar on the carrots and a little butter and salt for the artichokes The artichokes are great because prep-wise all I do is peel off the leaves until I reach the yellow and trim the tops. After they come out and are cooled then I trim the stems and clean them up. So much easier for me.

Yeah I can't wait to try white asparagus SV, they would get so tender curious about purple too). Green I always prefer a little bite to them, growing up on steamed over-cooked asparagus is a bad food memory...

Edited by ScottyBoy, 17 September 2010 - 11:59 AM.

[KennethT]

Just checked my notes... nice thick asparagus, 150F for about 8 minutes with s&p and a couple pats of butter in the bag, then shocked in ice water and held in refrigerator until service - put back in 140 or 150F water (whatever's convenient if you have other things going) for a couple of minutes to reheat: results in a vibrant green color, crisp but tender texture... I thought they were a little too crisp still, but others loved them... maybe I'd try 10,12 and say 15 min. next time I can get really good asparagus... had a very green, grassy flavor... more than normal steaming etc...

[therippa]

If you go to Golden Gate Meat Co. on 7th street, not the ferry building but the main plant. Even though you aren't a restaurant just say that you'd like to fill out a credit app. Tell them you just want to do "Will call, C.O.D." So that means you pick it up and pay cash when you do. I don't they care if you're a restaurant or not because you aren't running on credit. It's literally 60% less than on the SRF website.

Do you still have to buy things in wholesale quantities or is it more like buying something from Polarica?

[ScottyBoy]

That's what's great, no minimums. Although you can't really help buying 8 lbs of SNF short ribs since it's already packed. But I say $68 for 8 pounds of wagyu is well worth buying and portioning/freezing. Just looking at the prices on the SRF website makes me laugh.

[therippa]

Wow, that's only like a dollar or two more expensive than costco shortibs. Thanks for the tip!

[Edward Dekker]

Does anyone know about a similar vender for wagyu beef in the Boston area (or Southern New Hampshire)?

If you go to Golden Gate Meat Co. on 7th street, not the ferry building but the main plant. Even though you aren't a restaurant just say that you'd like to fill out a credit app. Tell them you just want to do "Will call, C.O.D." So that means you pick it up and pay cash when you do. I don't they care if you're a restaurant or not because you aren't running on credit. It's literally 60% less than on the SRF website.

[IndyRob]

Does anyone know about a similar vender for wagyu beef in the Boston area (or Southern New Hampshire)?

Or anywhere else an eGulleteer might reside?

[jackal10]

Anyone have a pork normande SV recipe or experience (pork with apples, cider, cream)?
My instinct is to cook the cubed shoulder pork somthing like 12 hours at 60C in the hard cider, then finish with cream, apples, vegetable garnish etc
Its not confit - it needs to be meltingly tender but retain some structure

[percival]

Quick Q: anyone ever SV banana leaf for an extended period of time? Wondering if it will go bitter like aromatics.

[nathanm]

Anyone have a pork normande SV recipe or experience (pork with apples, cider, cream)?
My instinct is to cook the cubed shoulder pork somthing like 12 hours at 60C in the hard cider, then finish with cream, apples, vegetable garnish etc
Its not confit - it needs to be meltingly tender but retain some structure

This all depends on the final texture you want. We do pork shoulder for up to 48 hours at 60C. You get different texture at 24, 48 and 72 hours. We also like it at 65C for 36 hours, or pressure cooked for one hour. Each is very different result.

I think you will find that the fatty portions are not quite tender enough if you do only 12 hours.

Given your description I would guess 24 to 48 hours at 60C is your best bet.

[KennethT]

Quick Q: anyone ever SV banana leaf for an extended period of time? Wondering if it will go bitter like aromatics.

I've done things wrapped in banana leaf - like a yucatan style pork shoulder, rubbed with achiote and lime, wrapped in a banana leaf and cooked at either 155F for 24 hours, 176 for 12 hours, or 182 for 8 hours... the banana leaf didn't impart that much flavor at 155, but it imparted a lot of aromatics at both 176 and 182... neither of them were bitter, although we didn't actually eat the banana leaf (does anyone actually do that?)

[ScottyBoy]

Anyone have a pork normande SV recipe or experience (pork with apples, cider, cream)?
My instinct is to cook the cubed shoulder pork somthing like 12 hours at 60C in the hard cider, then finish with cream, apples, vegetable garnish etc
Its not confit - it needs to be meltingly tender but retain some structure

When I want the the shoulder to be tender but still retain some structure in "chunks" I can carve on the plate. I go 65 for 36 hours, good luck and I'd like to hear about the outcome! Are you going to burn off the alcohol from the hard cider before the vacuum?

[jackal10]

The shoulder is cubed before cooking. Maybe brined.The skin crisped and puffed seperately

I ws going to seal it with some apple juice, apple brandy (not burnt off - only a small glassful), some cider vinegar, softened onions, bay leaf and seasoning.
After cooking, reduce the bag juice and finish with creme fraiche and caramelised apple slices.
I think red cabbage, rice or mashed potato might go well,

[dougal]

The shoulder is cubed before cooking. Maybe brined.The skin crisped and puffed seperately

I ws going to seal it with some apple juice, apple brandy (not burnt off - only a small glassful), some cider vinegar, softened onions, bay leaf and seasoning.
After cooking, reduce the bag juice and finish with creme fraiche and caramelised apple slices.
I think red cabbage, rice or mashed potato might go well,

Is the alcohol in the best place?
Might it not be better to leave it out of the sv bag and perhaps flambée the meat (or maybe simply (rustically?) fortify the sauce) before service?



One of the appealing (to me anyway) concepts of sv is the possibility of accurate 'prototyping' or 'test driving' - making a single portion of a recipe to test the idea (or perhaps a few single portions with variations, for example to compare different durations) - before making a large quantity for any sort of 'event'.
This approach is surely particularly apt with materials like cubed pork ... isn't it?
It mainly requires enough time (just simmering time, rather than man-hours) before the event, rather than any other resources.

[nathanm]

One of the appealing (to me anyway) concepts of sv is the possibility of accurate 'prototyping' or 'test driving' - making a single portion of a recipe to test the idea (or perhaps a few single portions with variations, for example to compare different durations) - before making a large quantity for any sort of 'event'.
This approach is surely particularly apt with materials like cubed pork ... isn't it?
It mainly requires enough time (just simmering time, rather than man-hours) before the event, rather than any other resources.

That is a REALLY good point - SV does not rely on size effects, so you can test drive a small portion and it will work well. Indeed that is how we test things for the book - we do multiple pieces and then cook them for various times. When we like a time-temp combintaion we do a larger sample to be sure.

[FoodMan]

The shoulder is cubed before cooking. Maybe brined.The skin crisped and puffed seperately

I ws going to seal it with some apple juice, apple brandy (not burnt off - only a small glassful), some cider vinegar, softened onions, bay leaf and seasoning.
After cooking, reduce the bag juice and finish with creme fraiche and caramelised apple slices.
I think red cabbage, rice or mashed potato might go well,

I just recently cooked and wrote about a sous vide pork shoulder I did here. I found out that arount 70C for about 20-22 hours worked great for my purpose and it is similar to what you are looking for. It sliced great and crisped nicely but was also tender and unctuous.

[PedroG]

Some time ago I cut a pork shoulder in three parts, bagged them with marinade (9 days at 1°C) and cooked them SV at 55°C for 24h / 48h / 72h, post-searing in almost smoking-hot rice-bran-oil.
72h was fork-tender, succulent and almost falling apart, but in its lean parts a bit dry.
24h and 48h were tender, succulent and juicy, but not perfectly fork-tender.
In all three cases the fat was perfectly soft, there was a nice crust, and the interior was pink after some contact with air.

[lennyk]

I'm looking to SV pork spare ribs with dry rub as a means of shortening the time in the smoker.
My intention is SV beforehand for however long, freeze, then on day of serving thaw and stick in the smoker for hour or so at higher than normal(220-250) smoking temps,
eg 300 to get them colored fast and fat rendered for taste.

I know the rub should be reduced a bit, any suggestions for temps and time ?
Don't want to do 812hours cooks though.
Actually, I've just read Douglas's site and have a starting point, although his method is intended for complete cook.

Edited by lennyk, 22 September 2010 - 07:46 PM.

[percival]

For pork, you could brine for a day, then do 131-135 Fahrenheit for 6-8 hours to get the collagenase to do its duty on the meat and get it medium rare. It'll still be tough and none of the fat will have rendered. You intend to finish the cooking in the smoker, right?