724 replies to this topic

[qrn]

Yes, I dried the legs well , semi froze the fat and vac packed with a Foodsaver.
Then used a big sauce pan on the gas range, and monitored the water temp with a wireless insertable meat thermometer. Weighted down the bag with a big spoon to keep it covered.
Since I was not using the 141º temps it wasnt critical to keep the super tight temp regulation .
I could have used the oven, but the thing has fans that run all the time when it's on, and the burner was easier.

Bud

[s_sevilla]

I bid on ebay for a few months before I landed my hands on a waterbath that was in my price-range. It's not a circulating model and doesn't have ramping controls, but it works like a charm and holds temperatures within .2 degree(F). If you have a little knowledge about simple circuits, then it is possible to set up a fairly accurate system using an off-the-shelf PID (Proportional-integral-derivative) controller, electric hob, and if you want better uniformity, then a heat-tolerant immersible pump. Going this route should cost around 150-200$, and the used baths on ebay can be found in the same price-range.

[ChefCrash]

Yes. Kind of like this.

[BRM]

I'm sorry if this question has been answered in an earlier thread, but are all of you guys who are doing sous vide cooking at home using home-model cryovac machines, then just using a pot of water and keeping the temperature stable...or did you guys go the thermal immersion circulator route?

Just curious. I've seen and done a little sous vide professionally, and liked the results enough to try it at home in the near future.

I got a Haake immersion circulator on e-bay for $100 and a vaccuum sealer from Target. Another route you cold go might be to modify your stove or a hot plate as in this post. The stove mod is also intriguing because it woudl also allow constant temp for things like deep frying.

[Pielle]

I guess you wanted to link to my previous thread but you added an http: too much!

So here is the actual link I am actualy VERY happy with this stove mod and use it frequently. My only regret was not the get the 0.1 degrees precision thermistor for very little more money. Its cost is low, it takes no space at all and is polyvalent (sous vide, slow cooking, deep frying) and precice.

I have tried a lot of sous-vide recipies, taking a long time, or short time, precision or not and all came out wonderfly.

One very nice "security feature" is that the PID will automaticly adapt itself to the setting of the knob. So you can heat up your pot at full blast (240V so 2200 Watt) and then once the temps is reached, you can bring and down to 2 or 3. So for long time cooking (few days or overnight) even if the PID breaks on the ON position (unprobable) it will only bring the pot of water to a gentle boil that will last forever (I alaways leave the lid of my pot on it).

[coffeekev]

...

One very nice "security feature" is that the PID will automaticly adapt itself to the setting of the knob.  So you can heat up your pot at full blast (240V so 2200 Watt) and then once the temps is reached, you can bring and down to 2 or 3.  So for long time cooking (few days or overnight) even if the PID breaks on the ON position (unprobable) it will only bring the pot of water to a gentle boil that will last forever (I alaways leave the lid of my pot on it).

Very nice mod indeed Pielle, a true inspiration and being in Australia, where almost everything cost 2-3X as much (and 2ndhand equipment is definitely more scarce), I think DIY is the way to go for me. Also, working in the medical field, I REALLY cant bear the thought of using 2ndhand water baths that could have had biological agents thawing in them

I had 2 questions re: your mod,

First question was answered in that thread of yours, namely whether auto-tuning needs to be repeated when using different amounts of water - it is necessary it seemed, however given u always keep a lid on, is evaporation a factor at all? I can imagine myself marking the inside of the pot to make sure the same quanity of water is being heated, in long marathon sous vides i reckon...

Question no. 2, you said above that you can actually use the knob to adjust the power, now, wouldn't that affect the tuning process too? and therefore needs to be auto-tuned again?

I am planning to modify a slow-cooker (or a rice cooker, because it has greater wattage) in the next 1-2 months. Will definitely post my results!

-coffeekev

[Pielle]

I have answered to this post on the thread concerning the PIDed stovetop.
Link

Edited by Pielle, 18 December 2006 - 09:40 AM.

[andiesenji]

A vendor on ebay has some current auctions for several scientific/laboratory water bath units.

If anyone is interested, click here then click on the "visit seller's store" link.

I am not sure if these are the types of units desired but I purchased a mixer from this vendor and noticed the lab equipment on the auction list.

[woodburner]

So after months of following this thread, I've yet to invest in a water bath circulator, or for that fact cooked anything sous vide yet. Pitiful me.

But alas something has now suddenly appeared locally to me, skate wing. Ok previously frozen but it looks good in the market and my trusted food friend headed right out that first morning made available and procured a few pounds only to gave it his thumbs up.

Now I stumble over the following:

For the Laminated Skate Wing:
Stack a large skate fillet with one of the smaller fillets so that the thinner side of the small fillet is on top of the thicker side of the large fillet, forming one fillet of uniform thickness. Layer another small fillet and top with the remaining large fillet in a similar fashion. Lightly season with salt and thyme. Place the stack of skate into a large sous-vide bag and cover with fumet. Seal the bag with significant pressure according to the sous-vide machine's instructions.

Bring a large pot of water to 165ºF, using a thermometer to maintain this temperature. Cook the skate for approximately 25 minutes. Remove the bagged skate carefully, cool at room temperature, then chill in an ice bath. Once the skate is chilled, lightly press the bagged skate between 2 sheet pans with approximately 3 pounds of weight on top. Press and chill in the refrigerator for at least 4 hours.

Remove the laminated skate from the bags, peel off the thyme, and gently scrape off any jellied fumet. Trim the skate and cut into 5-ounce rectangular portions. Refrigerate the skate until ready to finish the dish.

Laminated Skate Sous Vide

I'm more than certain I can keep a pot of water on my stove at 165ºf for about 25 minutes as the recipe suggests. Does anyone with some experience with sous vide have any comments regarding the stated time and temperature stated here?

woodburner

[Ruth]

The temperature sounds far too high to me. I would never cook fish at more than 140°F

[Michaeltheonion]

We poach lobster in beurre monte at my restaurant. This requires emulsifying about 4 pounds of butter into itself everynight over a double boiler. This takes loads of time but the result is fantastic. Generally we keep the Butter in the steam table but this ends up raising the cost on the lobster quite abit. Were getting a sous vide machine to cut down on labour. Now we can put a couple tablespoons of butter into the bag with a lobster tail and seal it shut. Drop it in the circulator and it bascially takes care of itself. It also has the added effect of cutting down on prepping lobster because the butter generally preserves them longer than if they were sitting in the botton of a reach in. I also encountered a chef who makes his rattatoullie sous vide, the result was lso tender...

[Chef Rich G]

Hey Michaeltheonion-

Time temperature? What are you doing with the tail after you remove from the bag? You're not placing the "lobster in shell" within the bag are you?

[Chef Rich G]

What's the status of your approvals by your local health department. I started a whole thread to discuss the legality of MAP cooking here:

http://forums.egulle...=

I would be interested, as I am sure most other professional sous vide proponents would be, for some insight as to how local health departments are reacting to uncovering vacuum chamber or foodsaver machines alongside thermal circulators.

[alwang]

Thinking about dipping a tentative, vacuum-packed toe into the world of sous vide, but like many others, I'm trying to experiment on a budget. I'm curious whether anyone has had any experience using this product?

http://www.amazon.co...d=324PZK555R091

Essentially a crockpot, but one with a thermostat-regulated temperature control that goes pretty low. Obviously no PID and non-circulating, so I'm not expecting the world, but I'm wondering whether it can hold a steady temperature well enough for at least some sous vide applications (seafood for relatively short times?).

Hey, it's 35 bucks, I'll probably just buy one and test it for myself. Even if it doesn't work for sous vide, I could use a good crock pot.

-a

[Michaeltheonion]

Hey Michaeltheonion-

Time temperature?  What are you doing with the tail after you remove from the bag?  You're not placing the "lobster in shell" within the bag are you?

Sorry sometimes I leave out the importnat stuff. The temperature is 140 exactly, I suppose because this is standard poaching temperature. It takes around 5 minutes to poach it properly. Its better to have it be just underdone, because it begins to fall appart after 6 minutes in the butter. And nope, I use the shells to make oils and the like.

[Pielle]

I want to serve some eggs tonight with a confit salade I am doing. I want to cook the eggs in a thermostated bath in order to get a special texture. What temperature do you recommend cooking this and what are the textures expected?

Thanks!

[Ruth]

Several chefs cook eggs this way, usually at about 147° (the temperature at which the whites are supposed to congeal) for 45-50 minutes. The texture is very unusual and difficult to describe. The whites are barely congealed and the yolks runny. They say this will only work with very fresh eggs. Some people go crazy about them. I can take them or leave them.

[BryanZ]

I think they're delicious. I go 62-63ish C for at least 45 minutes.

[s_sevilla]

on the studio kitchen thread shola did them at exactly 63.8 Celsius for about an hour. See here: http://forums.egulle...0

[cookingkid]

While not new to sous vide cooking and storage, I am new to having to put together a system for my kitchen. In essence, I've worked for others who already had the machines to make sous vide work well. Now, I need help tracking down some items and not recreate the wheel.

The restaurant recently bought a vacuum chamber sealer that feels ancient as far as the control panel is concerned. The machine came from Machine World USA, with the brand name as Ding Li. Anyone who has or currently uses this machine, please reply as to how to efficiently use it for cooking purposes. I'm having problems getting a full vacuum, which seems to be related to the size of the bags.

Speaking of bags, I'm in Missouri and I have found one purveyor for the supply of 8x10 bags. I'd like to know if there are any other local purveyors of these bags in the state, with different sizes and functions. Also, if there is a better source on-line, I'm up for that info as well.

I feel like I'm putting together the sous vide program on a whim and on a shoestring budget. The recipes that we use are ones that I have done before, but are now forced to adapt them to less than ideal circumstances (i.e. foodsaver bags and induction burners). Basically, I could use a mentor. Thanks for any help that can be given.

[Marc Olson]

I purchased my vacuum sealer and continue to buy bags from here: http://www.dougcare.com/.

They sell in bulk and the prices are reasonable.

[alwang]

A couple more practical questions I have for the more experienced folks on this thread, mostly dealing with using immersion circulators:

1) I've been using a hotel pan that's about 6" deep for my cooking vessel: with my immersion circulator, that means that the bottom of the heating element is resting on the bottom of the pan. I'm wondering if maybe that's not such a good idea? I do have a large 16-qt stockpot that would be taller, but when I tried clamping the 10+ lb circulator to the wall of stockpot, it felt like either the stockpot wall or the clamp was about to give. Just curious how others are mounting their circulators.

2) I'm also getting a lot of noise and vibration from the circulator- I'm wondering if that's not partly due to the fact it's resting on the floor of my pan. I did buy my circulator used, and I have no idea how much noise it's supposed to generate. How loud are other people's units?

3) I have pretty hard water in my area, and I'm getting some serious lime scale issues when I try for longer cooking times. I'm using a citric acid solution to descale, similar to what you'd do for a coffee machine, but it got me thinking: could I just regularly add some citric acid to my water bath liquid while cooking, to make it lightly acidic and prevent scale buildup? In theory, it shouldn't affect the food. I'll probably give it a try, but I'm curious what experiences others have had.

Overall, I'm having fun experimenting. Slow-cooked eggs are a simple and gratifying success. I've done boneless chicken breast a couple of times, and the flavor is distinctive, though not radically so. I did a pork belly for about 48 hours, and then finished it off by roasting at low heat for another few hours, a la Shola from StudioKitchen: good, but I think perhaps I would have been better off with just a quick sear or broil. I tried to poach some Bosc pears with some lavender honey and nothing else: I don't think I got the temps or timing quite right, and the texture wasn't as soft as I was looking for (though the flavor was yummy). I'm going to try it again at a higher temp, coring the pear, and perhaps adding a little bit of liquid (tea? mulled wine?)

-a

Edited by alwang, 26 February 2007 - 06:12 PM.

[Ruth]

I use heavy duty stainless stockpots with my circulator - from 14 to 23 quarts depending on quantity and have never had a problem The citric acid might affect the bags when you are cooking for 24 hours or more but I have had no experience with that as I have no serious scaling. It is fun to experiment - total failures are rare but, yes, sometimes the results are less than perfect.
I tried veal shanks and was unhappy with the result. Duck confit did well from the point of view of texture and flavor but far too much fat remained under the skin. On the other hand chicken or any poultry breast are supeior cooked sous vide (and then seared) and there is nothing better than a steak brought to 120° sous vide and then quickly seared on a hot grill

[nathanm]

2) I'm also getting a lot of noise and vibration from the circulator- I'm wondering if that's not partly due to the fact it's resting on the floor of my pan.  I did buy my circulator used, and I have no idea how much noise it's supposed to generate.  How loud are other people's units?

This varies a lot depending on the model. I have some that are very quiet (VWR, Lauda), and some that are medium (Fisher) and some that are noisy (Cole Parmer). However even within those brands it varies a lot. The noise comes from the pump motor. Water baths without a pump are totally silent, but you miss the benefit of the circulation which keeps the temperature even.

3) I have pretty hard water in my area, and I'm getting some serious lime scale issues when I try for longer cooking times.  I'm using a citric acid solution to descale, similar to what you'd do for a coffee machine, but it got me thinking: could I just regularly add some citric acid to my water bath liquid while cooking, to make it lightly acidic and prevent scale buildup?  In theory, it shouldn't affect the food.  I'll probably give it a try, but I'm curious what experiences others have had.

This should work just fine. Having the water slightly acidic will not hurt the water bath, nor will it affect the bags.

However, you might be better off getting a water filter and filtering your water.

[DocDougherty]

2) I'm also getting a lot of noise and vibration from the circulator- I'm wondering if that's not partly due to the fact it's resting on the floor of my pan.

Check to see if the circulator pump drive shaft protrudes from the bottom of the housing. It may be spinning on the bottom of your steam pan and that will be noisy.

If this turns out to be the problem you can probably extend the height of the end-wall of the pan with a piece of appropriate material and a C-clamp. A chunk cut from a polyethylene cutting board or a Corian sink cutout should work, and a piece of 1/2" plywood would be a temporary approximation. Just enough height to get the circulator off the bottom of the pan.

Cheers,
Doc

Edited by DocDougherty, 03 March 2007 - 06:39 PM.

[alwang]

Thanks to everyone for the replies. I think I probably do need to find some way to get the circulator off of the bottom of the pan. Meanwhile, I'm starting to get used to falling asleep to the high-pitched buzzing emanating from my kitchen. :)

However, you might be better off getting a water filter and filtering your water.

You know, I tried getting one of those Brita on-faucet filters, only to read afterwards that only the Brita pitchers remove calcium and magnesium ions; the on-faucet filters do nothing for water softening. Oh well. A Brita pitcher would take forever to fill my pan, and a full water softening system is a little more than I'm willing to spring for right now.

-a

[minichef]

hi guys I know this has probably been dicussed already- but what is a safe time/ temperature for chicken breasts? I have tried one hour at 64 degrees C, following a previous trudge through nine pages of posts, one that I did see said; 51 mins @ 58.5 degrees C or something to that effect.....
but the meat still looks pinkly juicy. I think that it looks fine, but maybe customers would object to any pinkness in chicken breasts. I worry about clostridium, as I am making a cook chill product (for a product development module for college.... I am not a danger to public health). I have tried doing low temp ie 60 degrees C/ 1 Hour, followed by a 'botulinum cook' or 1 min at 90 degrees C, there is a noticable difference in texture, however.

Thanks.

[nathanm]

There are tables and FDA recommended times elsewhere in the post. 60C for about 1.5 hours to 2 hours should be OK, and is accepted in some FDA documents posted elsewhere in the thread.

Not all health inspectors know this - they are very poorly informed about the reality of food safety.

Your "botulinum cook" step does absolutely nothing for food safety, especially not against Clostridium botulinum or botulism. This explained elsewhere in the thread.

If you eat the chicken breast without storing it in vacuum there is NO threat of botulism.

If you store the chicken breast in a vacuum bag at low temperature (34F/1C) then FDA says you can keep it a week with no botulism threat. Botulism is a threat if you either store for longer than that, or store warmer than that. There is an FDA time table for other temperatures.

So, in most cases for sous vide botulism is not a concern. BUT, you should know that if there is a concern, your "botulinum cook" is not sufficient. 1 min at 90C is NOWHERE NEAR enough to kill the spores.

Whether your customers like the color, taste and texture is a different issue from food safety. Many people are used to overcooked chicken!

[DocDougherty]

hi guys I know this has probably been dicussed already- but what is a safe time/ temperature for chicken breasts? I have tried one hour at 64 degrees C, following a previous trudge through nine pages of posts,  one that I did see said; 51 mins @ 58.5 degrees C or something to that effect.....
but the meat still looks pinkly juicy. I think that it looks fine, but maybe customers would object to any pinkness in chicken breasts. I worry about clostridium, as I am making a cook chill product (for a product development module for college.... I am not a danger to public health). I have tried doing low temp ie 60 degrees C/ 1 Hour, followed by a 'botulinum cook' or 1 min at 90 degrees C, there is a noticable difference in texture, however.

Thanks.

Nathan is a minimalist when it comes to temperature. And he probably thinks I am overcooking them, but 153°F for 1.5 hr has proven to produce tender, juicy, non-pink chicken breasts. Turkey breasts seem to need 2 hr.

[Pielle]

followed by a 'botulinum cook' or 1 min at 90 degrees C, there is a noticable difference in texture, however.

Thanks.

You probably were thinking about a salmonela cook? Salmonela is the probelm with undercooked chicken (salmonela is destroyed in under 1 sec at around 70C). However, since meat's thermal conductivity is so low, a 1 min at 90C will only solve the problem for the outer layer of the meat (i.e. completely uneficient). You would be better off just searing the meat at that point : same (probaly useless) microbial destruction results, better flavor.

Anyways, read trought this thread, you will get all the answers you need and much more. Very much worth it!!