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And how do you like it cooked?


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#1 PSmith

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 05:57 AM

I have always been a medium to rare when it comes to steak. However, a chef friend of mine suggests that it is better (especially for ribeye) to have it medium-well done.

In their view the fat is where the taste is and unless the meat is well cooked, the fat doesn't melt and therefore distributes the taste into the meat.

Must admit that I did try a steak medium-well done and I think they might have a point (or I just might have got a really nice piece of meat).

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#2 scubadoo97

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 06:02 AM

Not sure you have to get in the well done territory to have the marbling melt. Medium should get you there

#3 gfweb

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 06:21 AM

When I was younger and had a bad case of testosterone poisoning, I wanted my steaks bloody. It was the manly thing to do. But about 15 years ago I started to get them medium to med rare because I found that they tasted better and weren't so damn chewy..

#4 PSmith

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 06:36 AM

When I was younger and had a bad case of testosterone poisoning, I wanted my steaks bloody. It was the manly thing to do. But about 15 years ago I started to get them medium to med rare because I found that they tasted better and weren't so damn chewy..

So it is not just me then.

Like you I have previously had my steaks bloody - probably more because I thought it was cool.

Personally I still can't get my head round the fashion of eating burgers rare too. I am a bit fussy about having ground beef fully cooked unless I am 100% sure it is freshly ground from steak beef.

Edited by PSmith, 04 January 2013 - 06:41 AM.

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#5 Panaderia Canadiense

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 06:40 AM

I want most steak medium rare to medium, hamburgers well-done, but I want my slices of prime rib blue rare.
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#6 huiray

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 07:23 AM

I'm not sure if this old article has been discussed here... http://www.gourmet.c...8/frenchlaundry

Quote from the article:

They are shocked by the rare flesh of the lamb, although it’s the most perfect I’ve ever tasted. (“Dangerous,” says Xiao Jianming, who refuses to touch it. “Terribly unhealthy.”)

:smile:

I've always thought this article was a good one.

By-the-by, although you talk about steaks in your OP, the title of the thread ("And how do you like it cooked?") ought to allow for quite a wider range of discussion involving how different folks/cultures/cuisines like things cooked, such as touched on in that Gourmet magazine article. Would that be OK, or do you want to keep it on just beef steaks/hamburgers?

I, myself, once upon a time in my distant youth ate beef steaks well-done, as was normally the case with folks of my milieu. After I moved away and grew older it became "medium"...then, over time to the present, "medium-rare". In effect I find the steaks I get in restaurants tend to come out closer to medium if I order it medium-rare, except at the better places where it would come out correctly. I like my beef burgers medium to medium-rare too - and for a while, was discouraged by places being *required* (so they claimed) to serve them "well-done"... but that tendency seems to have abated in my area.

#7 cdh

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 07:29 AM

There is a very fine line between undercooked enough to affect my digestion and just perfect. Probably a little on the medium side of medium rare. Too far into medium and the overly denatured proteins develop texture I don't want... too far into rare and my guts are gurgling all night and Alka-Seltzer is my nightcap.
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#8 PSmith

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 07:33 AM

By-the-by, although you talk about steaks in your OP, the title of the thread ("And how do you like it cooked?") ought to allow for quite a wider range of discussion involving how different folks/cultures/cuisines like things cooked, such as touched on in that Gourmet magazine article. Would that be OK, or do you want to keep it on just beef steaks/hamburgers?


More than happy for it to include other areas rather than just steaks. Pretty sure I wouldn't be that enthusiastic about eating chicken feet.

Here in the UK we have recently had some councils coming down on chefs for undercooking various dishes after a spate of food poisioning.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...london-20318319

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#9 huiray

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 08:21 AM

More than happy for it to include other areas rather than just steaks. Pretty sure I wouldn't be that enthusiastic about eating chicken feet.

Here in the UK we have recently had some councils coming down on chefs for undercooking various dishes after a spate of food poisioning.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...london-20318319


OK, great!

Liver - another one. I like my calf's liver pink in the center but will take it just done - so long as it is *not* rendered into shoe leather. Chicken livers I like to be just done through, and if I make liver sauces (duck or chicken) of course the liver bits (such bits as remain after mashing it up) will become well done. Foie gras I like the classic way - seared on the outside, warm and definitely pink on the inside. Don't like foie gras torchon and all those fanciful and foamy renditions of foie gras so enamored of Molecular Cuisine and "Tasting Menus".

My veggies? Depends. This, I think, is another huge area. :-) Most of them I prefer to still have quite a bit of crunch in them - think blanched or stir-fried in the Chinese idiom. Boiled to death or soft (so-called "tender" by some) generally provokes pursed lips from me. Creamed spinach, or that "traditional" (Western) blob of formless goo called "spinach" beloved of cartoonists and (Western) school cafeterias & etc - ick, ick, ICK. Blanched whole leaf spinach with stems on, drizzled w/ oyster sauce or ponzu sauce and dusted w/ a few grinds of white pepper - Yum! US-Southern style collard greens w/ pot likker - that would be an example of an exception of sorts for me regarding "cooked to death" veggies, as it is this peculiar dish with that defining characteristic. But if I made collard greens myself, I would be more than likely to do something like chiffonade it then throw then in chicken broth and cook for just a few minutes so that they are softened but still have a "bite". No stewing it for hours and hours with a ham hock etc. I'll go to a down-home soul food place for that.

#10 Crouton

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:16 AM

But if I made collard greens myself, I would be more than likely to do something like chiffonade it then throw then in chicken broth and cook for just a few minutes so that they are softened but still have a "bite".



I don't think you'd be very happy with Collards if you prepared them that way. They really do take better to longer braising. This time of the year I'll frequently braise a big cut of guanciale/hog jowl in nothing more than Collards, water, salt and pepper. After a few hours I remove the gaunciale and pop it under the broiler to brown the top. Sliced and served over the greens with a bit of vinegar is truly amazing.


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#11 sigma

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:33 AM


More than happy for it to include other areas rather than just steaks. Pretty sure I wouldn't be that enthusiastic about eating chicken feet.

Here in the UK we have recently had some councils coming down on chefs for undercooking various dishes after a spate of food poisioning.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...london-20318319


OK, great!

Liver - another one. I like my calf's liver pink in the center but will take it just done - so long as it is *not* rendered into shoe leather. Chicken livers I like to be just done through, and if I make liver sauces (duck or chicken) of course the liver bits (such bits as remain after mashing it up) will become well done. Foie gras I like the classic way - seared on the outside, warm and definitely pink on the inside. Don't like foie gras torchon and all those fanciful and foamy renditions of foie gras so enamored of Molecular Cuisine and "Tasting Menus".

My veggies? Depends. This, I think, is another huge area. :-) Most of them I prefer to still have quite a bit of crunch in them - think blanched or stir-fried in the Chinese idiom. Boiled to death or soft (so-called "tender" by some) generally provokes pursed lips from me. Creamed spinach, or that "traditional" (Western) blob of formless goo called "spinach" beloved of cartoonists and (Western) school cafeterias & etc - ick, ick, ICK. Blanched whole leaf spinach with stems on, drizzled w/ oyster sauce or ponzu sauce and dusted w/ a few grinds of white pepper - Yum! US-Southern style collard greens w/ pot likker - that would be an example of an exception of sorts for me regarding "cooked to death" veggies, as it is this peculiar dish with that defining characteristic. But if I made collard greens myself, I would be more than likely to do something like chiffonade it then throw then in chicken broth and cook for just a few minutes so that they are softened but still have a "bite". No stewing it for hours and hours with a ham hock etc. I'll go to a down-home soul food place for that.


Seared foie gras is not the "traditional way." A torchon is much more "traditional."

#12 Wholemeal Crank

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:35 AM

I fell in love with collards through 2 recipes: greens with pomegranate molasses from Paula Wolfert, which called for mustard greens. I didn't care for the mustard greens very much, and found collards to be just perfect in this dish: a brief boil of torn greens, then sauté with garlic and finish with pomegranate molasses--they end up softened but nowhere as soft as spinach. The other thing I've loved to do with them is a brief pressure cooking of thin strips of leaves, and putting beans over the leaves ("collard spaghetti" from Lorna Sass). Both involve more than a delicate steaming, but not hours of cooking.

#13 huiray

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:36 AM

But if I made collard greens myself, I would be more than likely to do something like chiffonade it then throw then in chicken broth and cook for just a few minutes so that they are softened but still have a "bite".

I don't think you'd be very happy with Collards if you prepared them that way. They really do take better to longer braising.
(snip)


Oh, but I *do* do collard greens like what I described all the time. I like them just fine that way. Yes, I do know which vegetable is called "collard greens". :-) I buy them all the time. In season, I get lovely young collards from the farmers' markets; at other times from the usual groceries. With young collards I'll cook them in the broth for maybe 5 minutes or less, with older leaves maybe 10 minutes or so. I may de-rib them if they are older leaves, but young leaves just get cut up rib and all. I do a reasonably fine chiffonade with them - and on occasion when I did a finer cut and walked away for a little longer than I intended they turned into an overly softened mess - for my preference.

Edited by huiray, 04 January 2013 - 09:55 AM.


#14 Wholemeal Crank

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:37 AM

Meant to finish that by saying that I prefer the collards cooked these ways to the several times I had them cooked the traditional way for hours.

#15 huiray

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:46 AM

Seared foie gras is not the "traditional way." A torchon is much more "traditional."


OK, let's say instead the "usually seared" way.

#16 Panaderia Canadiense

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:20 AM

Oooh, we can talk veggies? I like most things (with the exception of green beans, which I want to be tender) steamed just enough to be hot through but retaining their crunch. Particularly asparagus - I like them when they've just turned emerald green. The minute they go that olive-drab colour they're limp toast as far as I'm concerned - the texture is ruined and so is the flavour.

For greens (I usually eat either chard or beet greens) I want them just wilted then tossed with vinegar. The long-stewed shmoog that passes for spinach, beet greens, or kale in most people's kitchens just makes me shudder. Never been overly fond of collards done in any way, ditto to poke.
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#17 huiray

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:49 AM

Oooh, we can talk veggies? I like most things (with the exception of green beans, which I want to be tender) steamed just enough to be hot through but retaining their crunch. Particularly asparagus - I like them when they've just turned emerald green. The minute they go that olive-drab colour they're limp toast as far as I'm concerned - the texture is ruined and so is the flavour.

For greens (I usually eat either chard or beet greens) I want them just wilted then tossed with vinegar. The long-stewed shmoog that passes for spinach, beet greens, or kale in most people's kitchens just makes me shudder. Never been overly fond of collards done in any way, ditto to poke.


Ditto!

I particularly like asparagus with very definite crunch. Shaved raw asparagus in a salad is also very nice. "Olive-drab" asparagus (or reheated asparagus - alone or in another dish (e.g. a stir-fried dish) is pretty ugly and faintly repulsive to me.

#18 rotuts

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 11:56 AM

certain beef cuts in the past I like in the FR fashion: 'Bleu' I think it wiggled a little on the plate. this might be being younger, but also beef in the day was better:

there was real Prime, and supermarket was one grade below. now they dropped the standards and the beef you get is no ware the same.

now I like beef med to med rare: most of the beef I now eat is SV 130.1 . the .1 makes me feel good.

burgers in the past were charred but rare in the middle. now a little more cooked. that rare-ness seems to stay with me now that Im a little older.

:huh:

then again, steak tartare will always be tartare!

:biggrin:

however,

Duck breast must be as rare as possible, after carefully removing two sets of tendons.

and Lamb also as rare as I can make it, removing most of the fat.

#19 IndyRob

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 05:38 PM

IMHO, ribeye (as mentioned in the original post) is two different cuts of meat that really shouldn't be cooked together as a steak. You have the cap/deckle/calotte, and the rest.

It's kind of like cooking white and dark meat of chicken together in the exact same way without making allowances for their differences. It doesn't work.

In a rib roast (or prime rib) it does work, because the fatty, sinuous bits are more towards well done, while the inner bits are med-rare.

#20 ChrisTaylor

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 05:45 PM

Depends on what it is, really. Rare to medium rare for most steak-type things. Leaning towards even rarer for things like skirt steak or red-fleshed game such as wallaby and venison. However with some cuts I do prefer them at a higher temperature. Pork belly, for instance. The low temperature sous vide versions are nowhere near as good as a slow-roasted (or high temperature sous vide confit) version. I like duck in all its forms. I like rare duck breast but I also like duck that's slow-cooked in an oven or smoker to the point of well-done-ish greasiness.

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#21 The J

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 07:03 PM

For steaks, I prefer medium rare to medium. Burgers I generally order medium, and they usually come out medium well, which is about where I like them.

For vegetables, it all depends -- sometimes I want them super crispy, sometimes I want them kind of soggy.

Eggs I like having well done.

#22 huiray

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 08:45 PM

Regarding eggs:

I don't particularly care for the "French" ways with them - both that scrambled stuff which is custardy/fluffy-soft etc, nor that folded-over/rolled pale thingy where any browning is considered a sin. I much prefer my scrambled eggs to have slightly crisped edges with soft centers** and my omelettes done** so that it is slightly bubbly, crispy with "wok hei". No milk, no cheese in either.

Soft-boiled eggs - I like them runny, some uncooked white is just fine (some call it "spermy" some call it "snotty" - eh, I don't think of it that way. Whatever - I like the eggs that way). Typically, I'll break them into a bowl (e.g. a rice bowl), sprinkle some soy sauce on it plus a few grinds of white or black pepper, then drink it. Yup, bowl to lips/mouth, drink the eggs. Masticate the yolks a bit. Down the hatch. Yum. All done in a minute. :-)

Oh, if presented with the "French" versions (at a dinner or wherever) I'll eat them - but it's rare for me to order them that way and at home I'll generally do eggs the way I describe here.

** Both basically done in a hot pan with veggie oil. Not butter, and preferably not olive oil. With scrambled eggs I typically crack the eggs and dump the contents into a hot pan w/ hot oil (almost smoking is good) and quickly break the yolks and "scramble" them with a spatula, turn off the heat (gas) when they are half-done (the eggs continue cooking), get my plate or bowl, and dump the eggs onto the plate/bowl. All done within a minute or two. Crispy-edged, soft centers. I've read where someone else who did it this way too called them "marbled" scrambled eggs. With omelettes, for a plain one I whip the eggs in a bowl with a little oil (yes, oil) plus a bit of water, very lightly salt it (maybe), then pour it into a hot pan with hot oil (as with my scrambled eggs), roll the liquid around then let it sit on the heat and within the minute I have a nice, slightly browned setting omelette which I usually flip over to brown the other side briefly, then slide it onto my plate. Done. (There needs to be enough oil)

#23 huiray

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:05 PM

Eggs, continued:


As for "Western Brunch" or "Breakfast-type" fried eggs - sure, I like them when in the mood - and in that case I like them sunny-side up. I eat them by cutting off the whites bit by bit around the yolk, then maneuver the remaining yolk (with teeny bits of white left edging it) onto my fork and pop it into my mouth and chomp down to get that nice explosion of yolk in my mouth. :-)

Eggs Benedict (standard or crab versions) are just fine too, when I'm in the mood.

Proper frittatas, Huevos Rancheros, etc - rare for me.

SE/E Asian-type oyster omelettes, hmm - never really had many of them when I was growing up and can't say I hanker for them now, delicious though they are. Many mentions of it here on the forum, I know - and various folks have talked about it.

#24 benthescientist

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:10 AM

IMHO, ribeye (as mentioned in the original post) is two different cuts of meat that really shouldn't be cooked together as a steak. You have the cap/deckle/calotte, and the rest.

It's kind of like cooking white and dark meat of chicken together in the exact same way without making allowances for their differences. It doesn't work.

In a rib roast (or prime rib) it does work, because the fatty, sinuous bits are more towards well done, while the inner bits are med-rare.


Yes! They're two distinct muscles: the cap being the spinalis dorsi and the rib eye being the longissimus dorsi.

If I'm doing beef, then I'l generally try and hit 54 C for a medium rare. I do feel though, that the rib eye does demand either a higher temp to break down the marbling, or a longer cooking time. If I'm doing a rib eye sous-vide then I'll let it sit at temp for about 4 hours. It needs more than just bringing it to 54.

Heston's take on the cap: http://ovendriedtoma...-1723-course-3/

#25 nickrey

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 03:52 AM

Mostly, I'll cook to 56C.

I think that the cooking method and final temperature depends on the steak. Thick cut wagyu, with its extensive marbling, should not be eaten rare because the fat will be chewy.

Since cooking tougher cuts low and slow sous vide and finishing with a high temperature sear, I've decided that the traditional tender cuts [eg,. Fillet (tenderloin)] are mostly tasteless and not worth the money that you pay for them however they are cooked.

Edited by nickrey, 05 January 2013 - 03:53 AM.

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#26 PSmith

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:06 AM

Fried Eggs

Now I am a bit odd where fried eggs are concerned. I guess if I actually thought about it, I don't really like egg white. My Dad (sadly now departed) was the only one who could fry an egg to my liking.

Sunny side up but the white should be crispy round the edges (almost burnt underneath), but the yoke should still be slightly runny.

Using a very high heat and vegetable lard, I can get close but usually end up with a solid yoke. My Dad was the master.

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#27 nickrey

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:57 PM

Fried Eggs

Now I am a bit odd where fried eggs are concerned. I guess if I actually thought about it, I don't really like egg white. My Dad (sadly now departed) was the only one who could fry an egg to my liking.

Sunny side up but the white should be crispy round the edges (almost burnt underneath), but the yoke should still be slightly runny.

Using a very high heat and vegetable lard, I can get close but usually end up with a solid yoke. My Dad was the master.

Try using more lard than you normally would as this get a deeper fry going with the high heat. Also take the egg off before you think it is done, it will continue cooking after it leaves the pan.

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