Jump to content


Welcome to the eG Forums!

These forums are a service of the Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, a 501c3 nonprofit organization dedicated to advancement of the culinary arts. Anyone can read the forums, however if you would like to participate in active discussions please join the Society.

Photo

Home Made Ice Cream (2013– )

Dessert

  • Please log in to reply
327 replies to this topic

#61 JoNorvelleWalker

JoNorvelleWalker
  • participating member
  • 1,642 posts
  • Location:New Jersey USA

Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:53 AM

I've never made chocolate ice cream that I can remember, but the sorbet has the consistency of ice cream, even though it contains no dairy. In my experience milk products tend to dull chocolate flavor (not that I don't love milk chocolate). But this sorbet gives a full bitter hit of intense chocolate along with the lovely mouthfeel of cocoa butter. Not to mention theobromine intoxication. (Says she, sitting here salivating uncontrollably and twitching to herself.)

#62 Heartsurgeon

Heartsurgeon
  • participating member
  • 258 posts

Posted 30 January 2013 - 02:19 PM

Seville Orange season is about to start here, and i'll be whipping up another batch of seville orange/caramel/Grand Marnier ice cream.
It's the adult version of a orange dreamsicle...

#63 Ruben Porto

Ruben Porto
  • participating member
  • 31 posts

Posted 30 January 2013 - 03:16 PM

Hi guys, does anyone have a good sugar/water/total solids ratio for sorbet? I'm working with 34% total solids, 65% and 15% sugar content. Texture has been smooth but a bit chewy; I think the water content needs to be slightly higher.

Would be interesting to see what everyone else is doing with sorbet. I don't think it's caught on here in the UK as much as ice cream.

Many thanks in advance.

#64 JoNorvelleWalker

JoNorvelleWalker
  • participating member
  • 1,642 posts
  • Location:New Jersey USA

Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:33 PM

I'm sorry you didn't ask the sorbet question yesterday! I just returned Ice Cream 6th edition, Marshall et al that I had on Interlibrary Loan. There was a chapter on sherbets/sorbets/ices with lots of formulation information.

Today I got a copy of Migoya's Frozen Desserts. Haven't read it yet, but maybe there is something in there.

#65 Tri2Cook

Tri2Cook
  • participating member
  • 3,747 posts
  • Location:Ontario, Canada

Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:13 AM

Today I got a copy of Migoya's Frozen Desserts. Haven't read it yet, but maybe there is something in there.


It's definitely in there. Still my personal favorite book on the subject.

I'm sure there are internet sources to be found with a little digging but there's a recipe for milk chocolate sorbet in Frozen Desserts and a darker chocolate sorbet in the Fat Duck book. I think I remember there being one in one of the Plated Dessert (Art of, Neoclassic View, Modernist View) books but I haven't looked in those in years so I could be making that up.
It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

#66 Ericpo

Ericpo
  • participating member
  • 73 posts

Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:19 AM

Hi guys, does anyone have a good sugar/water/total solids ratio for sorbet? I'm working with 34% total solids, 65% and 15% sugar content. Texture has been smooth but a bit chewy; I think the water content needs to be slightly higher.

Would be interesting to see what everyone else is doing with sorbet. I don't think it's caught on here in the UK as much as ice cream.

Many thanks in advance.



I really wish I could answer your question with a simple ratio. The problem is that with different types of fruit, there is wide variation with both sugar and water content. Even with the same fruit, ripeness can throw calculations way off.

That being said, I generally measure fruit with a scale. 1.5 lbs fruit(peeled pitted etc) to one batch simple syrup(1/2 cup water, 1 cup sugar). This ratio works for a lot of fruits, peaches, strawberries, etc. At the least, it gives me a good starting point.

With other fruits...I generally start with those ratios unless the fruit is extremely ripe, or if it has an unusually high water content(melons, mostly).

Other than that, you just have to experiment :wink: .

One last trick to try: when making the simple syrup, it's a nice touch to infuse it with some fresh herb flavor. Mint, basil, etc. In summer, mint is really nice. Just add fresh herbs to the water and sugar befor you heat. As you combine the water and sugar, crush the herbs occasionally with a wood spoon. As the syrup cools, let the mixture steep. Once cool, strain out the herbs and proceed with the recipe.

Hope that helps!
Do or do not. There is no try.
-Yoda

#67 Kerry Beal

Kerry Beal
  • participating member
  • 9,885 posts
  • Location:Ontario, Canada

Posted 31 January 2013 - 02:38 PM

Here is what I do based on Madeline Kamman's instructions in The Making of a Cook.


Madelaine Kamman Fruit sorbet

Source: The making of a cook


  • fruit pureed and put through food mill
  • syrup
  • lemon juice


Make syrup of equal amounts water and sugar, simmer 5 minutes. Keep in fridge. Put fruit puree in narrow tall container, put clean egg in it. Add enough syrup that egg floats up to between dime and quarter size. (start with about 1/3 volume of syrup as puree) Add 1 1/2 tbsp lemon juice, a bit of corn syrup and a pinch of salt. Chill several hours before churning


#68 Ruben Porto

Ruben Porto
  • participating member
  • 31 posts

Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:04 PM

Jo, Tri2cook, Eric, and Kerry,

Many thanks for the helpful feedback. I came across Migoya's Frozen Desserts a while back but never gave it a try; sounds like there is some interesting stuff in there so will give it a go. Might have to be a lot of experimentation to get sorbet right.

I'm going to try some mango sorbet tomorrow and will let you guys know once I have a recipe that I am happy with.

Many thanks again.

#69 JoNorvelleWalker

JoNorvelleWalker
  • participating member
  • 1,642 posts
  • Location:New Jersey USA

Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:53 PM

If it helps, Migoya has the following recommended min/max percentages for sorbet:

fruit puree (sweet) 40-60%
fruit puree (acidic) 25-40%
dry extracts 31-36%
stabilizer 0-1%
sugar 25-32%


I am really enjoying Migoya's book and it is pretty, as well as informational. Unfortunately he has me wishing for an anti-griddle. I bought a SS hotel pan as the best thing I could think of for hardening my ice cream, and I see that is what Migoya uses in his pictures,

In other news, even after several days, my chocolate sorbet has no iciness!

#70 Ruben Porto

Ruben Porto
  • participating member
  • 31 posts

Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:30 AM

Jo, you are a king amongst men, or a queen amongst women if Jo is short for Joanne - my bad.

Many thanks yet again.

#71 Baselerd

Baselerd
  • participating member
  • 460 posts
  • Location:Texas

Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:04 AM

If it helps, Migoya has the following recommended min/max percentages for sorbet:

fruit puree (sweet) 40-60%
fruit puree (acidic) 25-40%
dry extracts 31-36%
stabilizer 0-1%
sugar 25-32%


I am really enjoying Migoya's book and it is pretty, as well as informational. Unfortunately he has me wishing for an anti-griddle. I bought a SS hotel pan as the best thing I could think of for hardening my ice cream, and I see that is what Migoya uses in his pictures,

In other news, even after several days, my chocolate sorbet has no iciness!


In the Alinea cookbook (iirc), they recommend an easy replacement for the anti-griddle:

Simply go to the store and pickup a nice brick of dry ice. Place a kitchen towel on the counter, place the dry ice block on top, and then place a metal sheetpan ontop of that.

Edited by Baselerd, 01 February 2013 - 09:04 AM.


#72 JoNorvelleWalker

JoNorvelleWalker
  • participating member
  • 1,642 posts
  • Location:New Jersey USA

Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:12 AM

Jo, you are a king amongst men, or a queen amongst women if Jo is short for Joanne - my bad.

Many thanks yet again.


You are most welcome, and thanks for the wonderful help you have given me. (Jo is short for Jo Norvelle, I am a girl.)

#73 JoNorvelleWalker

JoNorvelleWalker
  • participating member
  • 1,642 posts
  • Location:New Jersey USA

Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:24 AM

In the Alinea cookbook (iirc), they recommend an easy replacement for the anti-griddle:

Simply go to the store and pickup a nice brick of dry ice. Place a kitchen towel on the counter, place the dry ice block on top, and then place a metal sheetpan ontop of that.


Unfortunately neither an anti-griddle nor a block of dry ice are very practical for me: the anti-griddle for price, and the difficulty of dry ice. I've never seen dry ice for sale, and if I did I'd have no way to bring it home.

But dry ice does remind me of the ices and frozen confections of my youth. In the summer at the shore the vendors would store their wares in chests of dry ice. The products were sold very cold. To this day I cannot enjoy a popsicle or similar served at normal freezer temperatures. It just does not seem right.

#74 Kerry Beal

Kerry Beal
  • participating member
  • 9,885 posts
  • Location:Ontario, Canada

Posted 01 February 2013 - 05:36 PM

Most reasonable sized towns will have places with dry ice - check the outfits that supply gases to industry like Praxair. The have it available in a variety of grades for different purposes.

#75 JoNorvelleWalker

JoNorvelleWalker
  • participating member
  • 1,642 posts
  • Location:New Jersey USA

Posted 02 February 2013 - 06:32 PM

The nearest town here is about 700 people, but there seems to be a Praxair about 15 miles away. I don't have a vehicle, which makes fetching dry ice impractical, although I see Praxair will deliver.

In other news my cream supply has spoiled, and it seems to be a good time to defrost my freezer.

#76 JoNorvelleWalker

JoNorvelleWalker
  • participating member
  • 1,642 posts
  • Location:New Jersey USA

Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:53 PM

Lesson in Freezing Point Depression:
My chocolate sorbet came to a sad, inglorious end. I did defrost my freezer. Tonight is fairly cold, -4 deg C, so I dumped my sorbet and its freezer-mates outside. It completely melted.

Dessert was a warmed slice of munavalgekook (made with almond flour), a drizzle of hazelnut syrup, covered in the quondam sorbet. A fine dessert, to be sure. But not a frozen dessert.

#77 ElsieD

ElsieD
  • participating member
  • 843 posts
  • Location:Ottawa, Ontario

Posted 03 February 2013 - 03:48 PM

Lesson in Freezing Point Depression:
My chocolate sorbet came to a sad, inglorious end. I did defrost my freezer. Tonight is fairly cold, -4 deg C, so I dumped my sorbet and its freezer-mates outside. It completely melted.

Dessert was a warmed slice of munavalgekook (made with almond flour), a drizzle of hazelnut syrup, covered in the quondam sorbet. A fine dessert, to be sure. But not a frozen dessert.


Never having heard of munavalgekook, (except that, with my Dutch heritage I was pretty sure kook was cake, as it sounds the same as the Dutch word koek) I did a Google search. It looks like something I would like. Did you completely sub the almond flour for the flour called for in the recipe? Did you use any citrus?

#78 JoNorvelleWalker

JoNorvelleWalker
  • participating member
  • 1,642 posts
  • Location:New Jersey USA

Posted 03 February 2013 - 05:40 PM

Here is the blog and recipe that I started with:

http://nami-nami.blo...ake-recipe.html

As I recall the nami-nami author is a poster on eGullet. I've made this recipe a few times and I eventually bought a bundt pan to bake it in. Sometimes I use almond flour and sometimes I don't. I believe for the cake I was eating with my sorbet last night I used 60g almond flour and 100g King Arthur organic white flour. I'm pretty sure I once tried a bit of Fiori di Sicilia and orange flower water for citrus flavor.

I got the idea to serve the munavalgekook with my chocolate sorbet because it was in the freezer too.

#79 JoNorvelleWalker

JoNorvelleWalker
  • participating member
  • 1,642 posts
  • Location:New Jersey USA

Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:47 AM

I made another batch of vanilla using Ruben's heating method. This time I used 750 ml heavy cream, 250 ml whole milk, 8 egg yolks, 160 g sugar. In other words a much higher percentage of sugar than before. The result was smooth, rich, scoopable -- and disgustingly sweet and sticky. The flavor was dull and I had a feeling that the total solids were too high. The ice cream melted too quickly. Not something I would have sent back in a restaurant perhaps, but not as good as I had hoped.

I melted it down, added a lot of milk and a little cream to the melted mix, and tried again. Now the sweetness is just right, the vanilla flavor is clear and refreshing. But the texture is icy. And the mouthfeel is thin.

Worse, the munavalgekook I made with all the egg whites turned out dry. I used Fiori di Scilia for citrus flavor but I think I like almond better. If only there were some way to melt down and respin a cake.

#80 ElsieD

ElsieD
  • participating member
  • 843 posts
  • Location:Ottawa, Ontario

Posted 07 February 2013 - 04:49 PM

Jo, thanks for posting the recipe. I assume that it does not usually come out dry?

#81 JoNorvelleWalker

JoNorvelleWalker
  • participating member
  • 1,642 posts
  • Location:New Jersey USA

Posted 07 February 2013 - 05:28 PM

I have a confession (not to be confused with "a confection") to make: in the munavalgekook recipe the dry ingredients are folded into the whipped egg whites and then the melted butter is folded into the resulting batter. This time I was rushing. After the egg whites were whipped in my ancient KitchenAid, I added and whipped the dry ingredients in three stages, then I whipped in the butter. Very easy. Thought I had found a shortcut. But no. Made properly and not over baked the munavalgekook should not be dry. It looked beautiful though.

A bit off topic but I'd love to hear how others fold ingedients into egg whites. I used to use my hands but got tired of the mess.

Last night's icy ice cream is melting down again.

#82 JoNorvelleWalker

JoNorvelleWalker
  • participating member
  • 1,642 posts
  • Location:New Jersey USA

Posted 08 February 2013 - 01:16 AM

Well, I respun the mix the third time. What a disappointment. I dug out the xanthan gum. I mixed a tablespoon or two of sugar with a quarter teaspoon of zanthan gum, and then whisked in some cream. Don't ask, I didn't measure. I then added the melted mix and hit it with the immersion blender.

It was the best mix I had ever tasted. I could have eaten it all night. But it did not make good ice cream. It was not sweet enough! Which for me is saying something. Plus it is icy. Not as icy as the last iteration, but it doesn't have the clear vanilla flavor either. I think xanthan gum is an evil ingredient in ice cream. A Band Aid as it were.

The first iteration would have been about perfect, had I not stupidly used so much sugar.


------------
"Rein in the sugar. Sugar can overwhelm and disguise flavors -- and mistakes too. Overly sweet desserts are not desirable."
"You will very likely make a fair amount of mistakes, but that is part of the process."
-- Francisco Migoya

#83 jjahorn

jjahorn
  • participating member
  • 53 posts

Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:52 AM

Hi guys, does anyone have a good sugar/water/total solids ratio for sorbet? I'm working with 34% total solids, 65% and 15% sugar content. Texture has been smooth but a bit chewy; I think the water content needs to be slightly higher.


I've never tried it, but Heston Blumenthal says in his books that he always brings his fruit to a specific infraction level (26 Brics I believe). Then he can always use the same base. The instrument for reading the sugar level is not expensive - I think you get it at good wine stores.

My daughter asked for a peanut butter ice cream last week - so I tried one this weekend, with a raspberry swirl to make it a PB&J. Not so impressed. The cold really dulled the nutty flavour, and the consistency from the peanut butter was a little like a custard that had split. A little grainy.
Well, I like that she wants to try new things... I'll keep looking for the ultimate ice cream.

#84 paulraphael

paulraphael
  • participating member
  • 3,031 posts

Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:24 AM

My best flavor this year is one I call Quartet of Dark Sugars. The flavor comes from the sweeteners: dark muscovado sugar, caramel, maple syrup, and chestnut honey. There's also salt and a bit of vanilla, just because those flavors blend so well. It's not overly sweet; I keep the total sugar levels relatively low. The honey includes some inverted sugar, which helps suppress the freezing point at at lower sugar levels.

There's ample bitterness from the chestnut honey and the caramel, and a sense of a lot of layers. People tell me it's full of familiar flavors that they can't quite name. And that it's grown-up's ice cream ... it takes a bit or two to decide you like it.

#85 JoNorvelleWalker

JoNorvelleWalker
  • participating member
  • 1,642 posts
  • Location:New Jersey USA

Posted 11 February 2013 - 01:58 PM

Could you list the recipe?

I seem to be out of the ice cream making process at the moment, as the pot I use is currently full of onion soup. Oh, one thing I wanted to mention about the munalavgekook -- I had a piece from a portion of the last cake that I had frozen, the cake I had said was dry. It was a bit dense but not really dry. I think I may have been confusing dry with stale.

#86 Ruben Porto

Ruben Porto
  • participating member
  • 31 posts

Posted 11 February 2013 - 04:12 PM

Hi jjahorn, many thanks for the Heston recommendation. I've been reading Heston's The Fat Duck Cookbook for a few days now and found his sugar, water, and Total Solids ratio helpful. Have you used the thingy that he recommends for measuring the sugar content in fruit? I'm very interesting in buying one and giving it a go. I'm working through a mango sorbet recipe at the moment and will post my results as soon as I am happy with the texture.

#87 Luke

Luke
  • participating member
  • 88 posts
  • Location:Melbourne, Australia.

Posted 12 February 2013 - 06:32 AM

While making another batch of my Pistachio Ice Cream, it occurred to me that my extraction of Pistachio Flavour was not ideal, probably due to the course crumb like texture of the Pistachios after they were blended dry.

So I fiddled with the techniqe, and by adding a small amount of warm water, I was able to turn the "crumb" into "paste. It worked really "well! Probably still not as good as the Pistachio paste the commercial shops use, but pretty darn close.

This is the recipe I use (I am not expert, so my ratios are probably flawed) but it tastes pretty darn good and my friends all like it so why change...

Ingredients:

Beat

175g of caster sugar

6 egg yolks

Bring to just below boiling

500ml (2 cups) full cream milk

add to custard base as per normal methods.

Cook out custard...

Add

600ml of cream

1tsp of ground cinnamon

1/2tsp of ground cardamom

1/4tsp of ground nutmeg

1/4tsp of ground clove

Strain and add

175g of unsalted shelled pistachios blended with a little warm water into a thickish paste

Chill and into machine.


Cheers

Luke


#88 Ruben Porto

Ruben Porto
  • participating member
  • 31 posts

Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:10 AM

Hi guys, here is my recipe for pistachio ice cream:

http://icecreamscien...e-cream-recipe/

Would be great to get some feedback if anyone does give it a try.

Hope this helps! :smile:

#89 paulraphael

paulraphael
  • participating member
  • 3,031 posts

Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:20 AM

Has anyone tried using a Vita Prep to pulverize pistachios? What about toasting them, and then blending them at high speed with the milk or cream?

If I had the machine I'd try...

#90 Luke

Luke
  • participating member
  • 88 posts
  • Location:Melbourne, Australia.

Posted 14 February 2013 - 05:50 PM

Ruben,

I will definitely try that Pistachio recipe! Will let you know how I go. Thanks.

Luke





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Dessert