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Home Made Ice Cream (2013– )

Dessert

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329 replies to this topic

#31 Nathalie

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:04 AM

I was going to suggest adding protein powder but then I saw that Ruben suggested milk powder instead, much better!

Wouldn't it be possible to instead of milk use another dairy product with more protein in it? There's a type of yoghurt over here in England with 9 grammes of protein / 100 g which is a lot more than normal milk. I guess it'd affect the flavour though.

#32 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:34 PM

I just finished two large bowls of the licorice ice cream. I am surprised at how good it is. It does not have the funny taste I reported for the mix, though there is a residual sweetness after one stops eating. The texture is not quite as silky as the vanilla I also made by Ruben's method, probably because there is less fat this time and much less sugar (to account for the glycyrrhizin). Fortunately the total sweetness is just right for my taste.

I wonder if I could play with the parameters of extraction and get less glycyrrhizin and more paeonol and ambrettolide?

#33 jrshaul

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:12 PM

I made canteloupe sorbet. The first draft was done with Alton Brown's recipe substituting all the sugar for invert sugar (I was interested in finding what would happen - it retarded freezing, but not completely.)

For the second batch (not pictured.), I juiced the melon and added 0.5g of guar gum to about a quart of liquid. It was much smoother. I also omitted the lemon juice and used ascorbic acid instead. It's very good, though 12oz sugar to 27oz liquid is a bit sweet.

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#34 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 12:57 AM

I have now read Jeni's Splended Ice Creams at Home, that Bojana mentioned. Jeni uses cream cheese, corn syrup, and corn starch in her mix. No eggs. I didn't follow Jeni's recipe -- for one thing I don't have corn syrup without HFCS that she specifies. But I made a batch of peach ice cream using cream cheese in the mix, with the following recipe:

Frozen Peaches -- 280 gm
water -- 50 ml
heavy cream -- 500 ml
sugar -- 140 gm
cream cheese -- 113 gm (4 oz)
vanilla paste -- about a teaspoon
almond extract -- 1/4 teaspoon

I cooked the frozen peaches in water to give about 225 ml fruit mixture. I processed this with heavy cream, sugar, and cream cheese, added almond extract and chilled over night. Next day I stirred in vanilla paste just before spinning. The mix was the texture of soft serve even before adding to the ICE-100. I was pleased and surprised that the ICE-100 would even handle a mix so firm, but once I gave the dasher a push by hand, it worked just fine. I spun for 15 minutes and hardened in the freezer for about 12 hours.

It tastes OK. It is a frozen dessert, though I'm not sure I would call it ice cream. The taste and texture is that of a cream cheese cake with little bits of peach. Not a bad cheese cake either, but not quite what I was hoping for. Certainly not what I would call peach ice cream. For one thing it doesn't melt. Somehow I doubt Jeni uses cream cheese in her commercial ice cream. On the positive side, it is not icy at all.

Disclaimer: I was not following a Jeni recipe and this strange result should not reflect on Jeni or on Jeni's book.

#35 lesliec

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 07:12 PM

Jo, I'm interested in your liquorice ice cream. I had a fantastic one in a restaurant several years ago but my own experiments haven't come close.

Can you expand on making the infused milk? How much liquorice, how long, heat?

Thanks,

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#36 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:17 PM

I used about 30 gm chopped licorice root. The brand is Frontier. The milk was about 60-70 deg C. (I did measure the temperature, but with an old analog thermometer.) I put the licorice and the warm milk in the iSi, pressurized, and let sit for about 30 minutes. I then strained the milk before adding to the creme anglaise.

I pressure infused in the iSi because I had the iSi. If I do this again I plan to leave the licorice in the creme anglaise while it cooks for an hour. Different flavor components of licorice are more or less soluable under different conditions. Alcohol infusion might get more flavor. My ice cream had a nice licorice taste without being overwhelming.

What were your experiments?

#37 lesliec

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 07:54 PM

OK, thanks - not sure if I can get liquorice root here, but there's some people I can ask.

My 'standard' ice cream method is to bring the milk, sugar and half the cream to a simmer with whatever I'm using for flavouring - fresh ginger has been a great success recently - then leave it to infuse for an hour or so. I bring it back up to a simmer, temper the egg yolks and pour into the other half of the cream. Then an overnight sit in the fridge before churning. It works very well, but for my liquorice experiment I used a commercial sweet/soft liquorice. It nearly worked, but the texture was odd - too much glycerin, or something.

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#38 Bojana

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 01:53 AM

Jo,

Jeni's original recipe does not taste like cheesecake at all, it uses much less cream cheese than you used so that may explain the weird taste. I have made at least 10 different recipes, maybe more and all turned out great. Dark chocolate one had a deep and rich chocolate flavour without being too sweet (for my taste) and my absolute favourite was brown butter and almond brittle. Sugar plumped fruit recipes are good but can be sweet.

I cannot wait my machine to be working again!

#39 rlibkind

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 02:08 PM

I can't puree canteloupe as fine as I'd like in my cheap food processor. Any solutions for this short of a Vita-Mix?

A blender works better, but in either case I would then use some elbow grease and strain through a chinoise.
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#40 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:00 PM

A blender works better, but in either case I would then use some elbow grease and strain through a chinoise.



I think a tamis would be easier than a chinoise.

#41 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:47 PM

Jo,

Jeni's original recipe does not taste like cheesecake at all, it uses much less cream cheese than you used so that may explain the weird taste. I have made at least 10 different recipes, maybe more and all turned out great. Dark chocolate one had a deep and rich chocolate flavour without being too sweet (for my taste) and my absolute favourite was brown butter and almond brittle. Sugar plumped fruit recipes are good but can be sweet.

I cannot wait my machine to be working again!


I just got up from the computer to go find Jeni's book, forgot what I was doing, and came back with a bowl of ice cream instead. But now I have her book in front of me. I agree I did not give her book a fair try, so after dinner I prepared a batch of Ugandan Vanilla Bean Ice Cream (pages 148-149) as accurately and as close to the recipe as I could.

I hope it does not violate any rules to list the ingredients:

2 cups whole milk
1 tablespoon plus 1 teaspoon cornstarch
1 1/2 ounces (3 tablespoons) cream cheese, softened
1/8 teaspoon fine sea salt
1 1/4 cups heavy cream
2/3 cup sugar
2 tablespoons light corn syrup
1 vanilla bean, split, seeds scraped out, seads and bean reserved

I had to make some substitutions: Kosher salt for fine sea salt, Karo for light corn syrup, and NM Madagascar Bourbon Pure Vanilla Bean paste for the Ugandan bean.

The mix is chilling now.

#42 rlibkind

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 12:29 PM


A blender works better, but in either case I would then use some elbow grease and strain through a chinoise.



I think a tamis would be easier than a chinoise.

I'm sure you're right, but I don't have one...
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#43 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 02:14 PM

I'm sure you're right, but I don't have one...


I confess I have not used mine since two ice cream makers ago. However it is wonderful for raspberries!

#44 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 01:37 AM

I've now had two bowls of the Jeni's recipe vanilla and can report. It may sound like damning with faint praise but it was better than I thought it would be. It scooped readily. Consistency seemed appropriate for ice cream. I could not tell that it was made with cream cheese. Melting was as I would expect. I believe I could detect cornstarch in the taste (but then I enjoy eating pastry cream). The finish was clean. Sweetness was more than I care for, but probably about right for normal people.

The major defect was a slight iciness. Perhaps a limitation in my equipment, though not a problem I have had with other recipes. A pinch of xanthan gum would probably cure the iciness, and that way the cornstarch could be omitted.

And of course, as you have guessed by now, I prefer a richer tasting ice cream.

#45 ChrisZ

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 03:58 AM

Yes, I know it is not quite 2013 here in New Jersey but after a long period without an ice cream maker I am back to making ice cream and would enjoy a discussion of recipes and technique.


I've just skimmed through this thread and was surprised that no-one has mentioned 'Frozen Desserts' by Migoya. It's a popular book - perhaps not as obvious as 'The Perfect Scoop' - but it's quite industrial/scientific in it's coverage of recipes and ice cream categories and the use of ratios, and judging from your in-depth discussion I think you would enjoy it.

I had a cheap domestic ice-cream machine many years ago which wasn't much more advanced than the ice/salt buckets used centuries ago. I spent a lot of time and eggs trying to find a way to make lovely soft ice cream at home that didn't freeze into a hard block or have an icy texture. I kinda concluded after a few years of casual experiments that the recipe wasn't nearly as important as the machine. I think ice cream is one area where it's OK to blame your tools!

So my opinion is that if you have a cheap ice-cream machine, I don't think there's much point worrying about the exact temperature the base is cooked at, I think you're facing an uphill battle to begin with. The most important thing to do is get an ice cream machine that isn't complete rubbish.

More recent demonstrations by those with access to liquid nitrogen (or dry ice) tend to agree- the faster you can freeze the stuff the better it will be. Have you tried to source any liquid nitrogen or dry ice?

I've mentioned this before in other ice-cream threads, but part of the reason I bought 'Frozen Desserts' was the hope that it would contain a holy-grail like recipe for ice cream that would have the perfect texture even if made in a cheap domestic ice-cream machine. Unfortunately Migoya basically concluded that the best way to make ice-cream is in a Pacojet, which is fine if you have a few thousand dollars to spare but not much help if your ice-cream machine is at the crappy-christmas-stocking-filler end of the range.

BTW- Pacojet is the answer to LancasterMike's question about success without sugar. It sounds like you can freeze pretty much anything and a Pacojet will turn it into perfect ice cream, but they cost a lot...

#46 Ericpo

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 07:51 AM

- I can't puree canteloupe as fine as I'd like in my cheap food processor. Any solutions for this short of a Vita-Mix?


jrshaul, have you ever tried an immersion stick blender? I'm a huge fan of home made sorbet, and I swear by mine. It makes the whole process so much easier, and easier on cleanup too. You can blend, mix, and chill, all in one bowl(I use glass). It also makes it easier to chase down those stray bits that are a little chunkier than one would like.

My favorite immersion blender is the Cuisinart Smart Stick CSB-76 - Hand blender - 200 W. It is a workhorse, and very attractively priced at around $30.

Hope this helps!
Do or do not. There is no try.
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#47 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 02:12 PM

I've just skimmed through this thread and was surprised that no-one has mentioned 'Frozen Desserts' by Migoya. It's a popular book - perhaps not as obvious as 'The Perfect Scoop' - but it's quite industrial/scientific in it's coverage of recipes and ice cream categories and the use of ratios, and judging from your in-depth discussion I think you would enjoy it.

I had a cheap domestic ice-cream machine many years ago which wasn't much more advanced than the ice/salt buckets used centuries ago. I spent a lot of time and eggs trying to find a way to make lovely soft ice cream at home that didn't freeze into a hard block or have an icy texture. I kinda concluded after a few years of casual experiments that the recipe wasn't nearly as important as the machine. I think ice cream is one area where it's OK to blame your tools!

So my opinion is that if you have a cheap ice-cream machine, I don't think there's much point worrying about the exact temperature the base is cooked at, I think you're facing an uphill battle to begin with. The most important thing to do is get an ice cream machine that isn't complete rubbish.

More recent demonstrations by those with access to liquid nitrogen (or dry ice) tend to agree- the faster you can freeze the stuff the better it will be. Have you tried to source any liquid nitrogen or dry ice?

I've mentioned this before in other ice-cream threads, but part of the reason I bought 'Frozen Desserts' was the hope that it would contain a holy-grail like recipe for ice cream that would have the perfect texture even if made in a cheap domestic ice-cream machine. Unfortunately Migoya basically concluded that the best way to make ice-cream is in a Pacojet, which is fine if you have a few thousand dollars to spare but not much help if your ice-cream machine is at the crappy-christmas-stocking-filler end of the range.

BTW- Pacojet is the answer to LancasterMike's question about success without sugar. It sounds like you can freeze pretty much anything and a Pacojet will turn it into perfect ice cream, but they cost a lot...


Chris, Frozen Desserts was suggested by gap in post #7. I have Frozen Desserts on its way to me via interlibrary loan (annoyingly our library does not have a copy of Frozen Desserts, though we do have Migoya's Elements of Dessert). The current ice cream book I'm reading is Ice Cream 6th edition, Marshall et al. The 7th edition of Marshall is being published this month.

I tend to agree with you about the importance of hardware, not only of the ice cream maker itself but of the freezer used for hardening. For better or worse $233 was more than I should have spent, and I don't know of anything better than the ICE-100 without spending a lot. My previous machine was a Kitchen Aid that was more than $1000, and the ICE-100 is superior on all counts. Liquid nitrogen sounds like a good way to go, but I have not investigated liquid nitrogen beyond checking the prices of dewars! But I wonder, what would be the next step up from what I have without getting into the prices of a Pacojet?


Edit: what machine do you use, if any?

Edited by JoNorvelleWalker, 20 January 2013 - 02:15 PM.


#48 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 12:56 AM

Respin: I wasn't happy with the batch I made from Jeni's recipe. For me iciness in ice cream is a fatal flaw. I melted it down and used my Kitchen Aid immersion blender to incorporate a tiny pinch of xanthan gum (sorry, I do not have a mg scale). I also added more cream. (I like cream.) And I added more vanilla to hopefully cover up the cornstarch taste. Forgive me for not having been more scientific with the measurements.

To my taste the recipe is much improved. It is very good Philadelphia style ice cream. Though having grown up in Philadelphia I don't think people put cornstarch in their ice cream, nor xanthan gum for that matter.

The respun ice cream is still quite scoopable. And very easy to eat. Does it compare with the batch of vanilla I made by the icecreamscience method? No. On the other hand it was not a debilitating amount of work to make.

On an almost completely different subject, I've been reading Giorgio Locatelli's Made in Italy. What should I come upon when I reached page 566 but a recipe for gelato alla liquirizia! Locatelli uses 45g licorice root powder rather than chopped licorice root.

#49 Bojana

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 01:50 AM

Reading Jo's experiments promoted me to think about my own experience. I did not experience any iciness in the Jeni formula and I was using a crappy 20 EUR freeze overnight machine. What perhaps does make a difference in my case is the freezer - mine is at -30 C.

What do you guys mean when you say "readily scoop-able ? What I do when we want to eat ice cream is move ice from -30 freezer to -18 freezer for about 12-24 hours, then leave it outside 5-10 mins before serving.

Recently I've bought 2nd hand stella musso pro machine and then managed to break something while cleaning it. Now my father in law will repair it when he finds some time, cannot tell you how excited I am to have it and to start playing with ice cream again. This thread is really tormenting me right now.

#50 Darienne

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 09:17 AM

I have a question about cornstarch in ice cream...which is what I use.

What are folks tasting when they say...'I don't like the taste of cornstarch in my ice cream'. Apparently I can't taste it nor can anyone else who has eaten my ice cream and I have asked.

Now when folks say...'I don't like the taste of eggs in my ice cream'. I do understand. I don't like the eggy taste in ice cream either.

But what about the cornstarch taste? I might add that I wasn't raised on cornstarch puddings if that's of any consequence.

Thanks.
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#51 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 03:21 PM

My freezer temperature, when I checked a moment ago, is -21.1 deg C. I wish I had one that would go to -30! But it could be worse.

I don't know if that difference would account for why my attempt at Jeni's recipe was icy. I may have done something wrong, but considering none of the other batches I've made in the ICE-100 have been unacceptably icy, I tend to blame the recipe. Jeni's recipe has less butterfat than the other batches.

By "scoopable" I mean I can take the ice cream container from the freezer and easily serve a portion. The ice cream is neither too hard nor too soft. In this respect Jeni's recipe was just perfect, similar to the alcohol containing recipes. For other batches I've made, such as the licorice, I have had to warm a serving spade and lean on it with all my weight. In other words, brick hard. Fortunately my weight seems to be increasing.

Darienne, I don't think I said "I don't like the taste of cornstarch in my ice cream," even though I believe I could taste it. The cornstarch flavor did not bother me as much as the alcohol taste in the alcohol based batches that I made. But I would prefer that there not be unintended incidental flavors in my ice cream. Xanthan gum (or maybe one of the other similar gums) should work as a stabilizer in place of cornstarch and not add any taste. I say should, because, except for this last batch of ice cream that I made, my attempts at using xanthan gum have given strange results, such as a salad dressing you could turn upside down and not spill.

#52 Darienne

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 04:37 PM

Darienne, I don't think I said "I don't like the taste of cornstarch in my ice cream," even though I believe I could taste it. The cornstarch flavor did not bother me as much as the alcohol taste in the alcohol based batches that I made. But I would prefer that there not be unintended incidental flavors in my ice cream. Xanthan gum (or maybe one of the other similar gums) should work as a stabilizer in place of cornstarch and not add any taste. I say should, because, except for this last batch of ice cream that I made, my attempts at using xanthan gum have given strange results, such as a salad dressing you could turn upside down and not spill.

Hi JoNorvelleWalker, Sorry if it sounded as if I implied that you and/or your words were the reason for my question. Not at all. Your words simply reminded me that others have said they didn't like the taste of cornstarch. I've always wondered just what it was that they tasted that they didn't like. Egg taste I can understand. Too sweet. Too sour. But what are they tasting when they taste the cornstarch? Oh well...
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#53 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 05:53 PM

But what are they tasting when they taste the cornstarch? Oh well...


Your question made me wonder so I consulted McGee, On Food and Cooking:

"During this wet processing, the starch granules absorb odors and develop their own when their traces of lipids are oxidized, so cornstarch has a distintive flavor unlike that of wheat flour, which is milled dry." (p. 614)

#54 Ericpo

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 01:41 PM

This seems to be the best place to pose this questoin:

Does anybody have sorbet recipes that are really exceptional? And, if so, would you be willing to share them?

Dearly as I love Ice Cream, sorbet's are my particular frozen dessert Obsession. With a capital O.
Do or do not. There is no try.
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#55 ChrisZ

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 10:06 PM

Now when folks say...'I don't like the taste of eggs in my ice cream'. I do understand. I don't like the eggy taste in ice cream either.


I saw an Italian documentary on the history of ice-cream which included an Italian company showing how they made gelato in the "traditional" way. They started with a normal egg-based custard but included lemon rind in a bag of muslin, which they said stopped the base from tasting like eggs. I thought that was interesting.

I assume there is a temperature point at which a custard begins to taste like eggs (maybe over 80 degrees?) and using a thermometer to keep the custard below that point would help.

(PS - I don't currently have an ice cream machine. I just buy it by the carton.)

#56 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 11:37 PM

This seems to be the best place to pose this questoin:

Does anybody have sorbet recipes that are really exceptional? And, if so, would you be willing to share them?

Dearly as I love Ice Cream, sorbet's are my particular frozen dessert Obsession. With a capital O.


Don't know if this will help or not: years ago, before anyone around here had heard of Lyme disease, my sons and I had gone raspberry picking. I smushed and scraped the fruit through the aforementioned tamis, and put the puree in the refrigerator. I don't remember what my plans were, but my younger son had the idea to spin it. (We had a good Simac at the time.) The result was rather tart, but one of the more delightfully refreshing things I have eaten. I don't think there was any added sugar.

#57 Ericpo

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 11:57 PM

YUM. I hardly even read a recipe if it says raspberries, I just fast forward to when I get to eat them. lol If you picked the raspberries fresh and they were properly ripe, no sugar would really be needed. Thanks JoNorvelleWalker.

I should just say that my sorbet Obsession includes a few foibles...I like seeds, pulp, skin...in other words, texture. I really believe an awesome sorbet is an experience that leaves you in NO doubt about what was in it.

I know that a traditoinal sorbet is filtered beyond any natural texture, but in a mass produced, artificial flavor dominated world, a REAL fruit flavor and mouthfeel are superlative experiences.

One of my most popular recipes is a peach/mint sorbet. I only make it with fresh, unpeeled peaches. It melts slowly enough in your mouth to feel like you are eating a fresh peach, with subtle differences. The color, texture, flavor, and perceived sweetness all say "Peach".
Do or do not. There is no try.
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#58 Bojana

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:24 AM

The quality of fruit where I live is poor. My alternative are the Boiron fruit purees. Texture is removed, but the tastes one can achieve are pretty amazing. My favourite sorbet is raspberry with a touch of sugar and some raspberry liquor. Creamy and tart, amazing. Also love pineapple/mint sorbet. I tried Jeni's peach/beer sorbet but as expected I did not like it - I do not like beer.Has anyone tried chocolate sorbet? While the idea never appealed to me, I am getting more curious about it since I started making sorbets myself.

#59 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:56 AM

Has anyone tried chocolate sorbet? While the idea never appealed to me, I am getting more curious about it since I started making sorbets myself.


The sacrifices one must make for science! Here is my novel, possibly original contribution to the art of sorbet.

The concept of chocolate sorbet had never occurred to me. However another recipe from Giorgio Locatelli's Made in Italy, one that I had filed away in my mind to one day make, was for mineral water chocolate foam. Now what, I wondered, would result if I froze mineral water chocolate foam? Fortunately I am in the US and sorbets are not a defined food in the United States. My chocolate sorbet can be whatever I want for it to be!

Locatelli's recipe had almost no sugar, and I knew it would not freeze properly. I kept his proportion of mineral water to chocolate but added much more sugar, dash of Grand Marnier, vanilla paste, and a pinch of xanthan gum:

Lindt Excellence 70% -- 100 g
Lindt Excellence 99% -- 100 g
Sugar -- 100 g
San Pellegrino -- 250 ml
Grand Mariner -- 25 ml
Nielsen Massey Madagascar Bourbon Pure Vanilla Bean Paste -- 5 ml
Xanthan Gum -- very small pinch


Melt chocolate over warm water. Mix sugar with xanthan gum, and dissolve in San Pellegrino. Bring to the boil. Remove from heat and slowly whisk in melted chocolate. Stir in Grand Mariner and vanilla paste. Pour hot mix into iSi, charge with nitrous oxide, and chill overnight. Discharge foam into prepared ice cream maker bowl and spin. Transfer to cold pan and harden in freezer.

That's all there is to it. I have to say the foam was great by itself but even better frozen. It would be neat to fry it on an anti-griddle, not that that's something that I have. It might work to hard freeze the foam without spinning it.

After hardening texture was just scoopable. Possibly more Grand Mariner would be warranted. I would not want to add more sugar. Gluten-free, probably vegan, what could be more healthful? I keep reminding myself that chocolate is a fruit.

Edited by JoNorvelleWalker, 28 January 2013 - 12:58 AM.


#60 Bojana

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:24 AM

Hahaha Joe, fantastic! How would you compare it to the regular chocolate ice cream?





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