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Home Made Ice Cream (2013– )

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327 replies to this topic

#301 paulraphael

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 07:47 AM

I wonder what Haagen Dazs is doing.

Well, I got this from a source that may not be trustworthy in this context ... a conversation with Jerry Greenfield of Ben & Jerry's. He said that Haagen Dazs molecularly alters milk proteins to act as emulsifiers and stabilizers.

 

I've never been able to confirm this with routine interwebs research. It seems more plausible that they're doing something more like Jeni's process. It would let them keep an old-timey looking ingredients list ... the molecular modifications would probably require the word "modified" somewhere. And we know that Jenni's process actually exists!



#302 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 06:54 PM

It was almost worth my life but the mix is in the ice bath.  Sometimes I suppose one must put up or shut up, as they say.  Comparing nutrition labels with regular non-fat milk, Over the Moon Fat Free has about 27 percent of the water removed vs 60 percent of the water removed for Jeni's milk.  (For some reason when I logged into my amazon account tonight they recommended Jeni's book...small world.)

 

Here were my ingredients:

 

heavy cream 600 ml

Over the Moon Fat Free milk 300 ml

medium/large egg yolks 7 (normally 6, the eggs did not look very big so I added an extra yolk)

sugar (sucrose) 90 g

trehalose 20 g

kosher salt pinch

vanilla paste 1 tablespoon (approximate)

 

Note, this is less cream and more milk than in my typical recipe.  I know well enough to change only one variable at a time, but of course I did not.  I cooked the mix by Ruben's method.  Recording peak temperature, the mix never exceeded 71.2 deg C.

 

After cooking I homogenized, or pretended to as best I could, with an immersion blender, per Michael Laiskonis.  Now it is about time for the mix to go in the refrigerator overnight.  We shall see.



#303 paulraphael

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 03:19 PM

What's the difference between using over-the-moon and using regular milk with nonfat dry milk added?



#304 timpoblete

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 03:22 PM

Paulraphael, I noticed that in your past posts you've used both gelatin and two yolks in your recipes. How do you incorporate the gelatin into the mix (bloom in liquid or right in and heat for a while, etc)? And does aging in the fridge with the gelatin affect anything?

#305 paulraphael

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 03:48 PM

I'm not using gelatin anymore, but when I did I used the powdered kind (easier to use in small quantities than sheets). I just mixed all the dry ingredients together thoroughly, including the sugars. This keeps ingredients like gelatin, gums, and milk powder from clumping.

 

Aging in the fridge is important for several reasons, so I never experimented with omitting this step. Theoretically it should allow gelatin to reach a higher viscosity.



#306 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 09:42 PM

What's the difference between using over-the-moon and using regular milk with nonfat dry milk added?

 

I don't know yet, but folks like Cook's Illustrated think dry milk tastes bad in ice cream.



#307 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 12:08 AM

Success.  This is very good ice cream.  Which does not mean it can't be yet improved.



#308 paulraphael

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 08:24 AM

I don't know yet, but folks like Cook's Illustrated think dry milk tastes bad in ice cream.

Bad dry milk does. I don't think you can detect good quality, 100% milk solids versions. Every pastry chef I know uses it, with the exception of one who uses a paco-jet exclusively.



#309 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 06:47 PM

With regard to use of powdered milk in ice cream, I have no personal experience.  Rose Levy Beranbaum's ice cream does not call for powdered milk and it is possibly the best ice cream I had made prior to Ruben's method. The Cake Bible (pp 285-286).  The cinnamon ice cream I made from CIA's The Professional Chef (9th edition 2011) did not use powdered milk.  I've not seen powdered milk in Dave Arnold's ice cream recipes.  Migoya does call for powdered milk, at least in his modern method recipes.  Migoya also heats his mix at 85 deg C, which is higher than many authorities recommend.

 

I'd say if you like powdered milk and it works for you, then use it.  I consume a fair quantity of powdered milk in Instant Breakfast.



#310 paulraphael

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 08:07 PM

Powdered milk is just the most straightforward way to increase the nonfat milk solids, which improves body and texture, and helps with freezing point suppression. It's certainly not the only way to do this. My point earlier is just that you you shouldn't expect flavor problems with this approach, considering that pastry chefs like Migoya and Laiskonis and Adria use it in their recipes.


Edited by paulraphael, 05 June 2014 - 08:08 PM.


#311 paulraphael

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:13 AM

Regarding Migoya's using an 85°C water bath ... this may have to do with the hydration temperature of the gums he uses. 



#312 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:34 AM

Still, I've never tasted reconstituted milk that would pass for fresh.



#313 Perrin

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 01:09 PM

RE: powdered milk, that was a turning point for my ice cream.  It made a huge difference in texture and the only detectable difference in flavor is a creamier taste.  I find the Cook's Illustrated recipe highly suspect for this reason.  I noticed that they show a photo of a big bag of Horizon Organic powdered milk, while I use a cheaper brand called Elba that comes in 100g sealed foil packets for freshness.  Maybe theirs was not fresh enough.

 

At any rate, Laiskonis, Migoya, Corvitto, and the new Ample Hills cookbook all call for it in their recipes, so it's clearly the norm for commercial ice cream.  Ample Hills describes it as a way to reduce the ratio of cream to milk so that they can get the right texture without too much fat, but I know you like it with more milkfat Jo.



#314 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 03:18 PM

What was your recipe?



#315 Perrin

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:47 AM

The basic Migoya recipe with powdered milk has worked for me.  That vanilla recipe that Laiskonis posted in his new blog looked good too.  Then there's the Ample Hills one, which is a bit on the creamy side:

http://www.houstonch...ase-5594172.php

(I used the Migoya "modern custard" mixing technique, rather than tempering eggs.)

 

The basic recipe from Giorgio Locatelli (which is adapted from Angelo Corvitto) is a good one if you want a recipe without eggs:

http://cookalmostany...-ice-cream.html



#316 Perrin

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 05:25 AM

Have you folks seen ChefSteps?  There's quite a bit of good ice cream info here: http://www.chefsteps...sses/ice-cream/

 

Their forum has some discussions as well.  I'm very interested in soft-serve ice cream, so the discussion about that was great.



#317 lebowits

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 07:42 AM

Have you folks seen ChefSteps?  There's quite a bit of good ice cream info here: http://www.chefsteps...sses/ice-cream/

 

Their forum has some discussions as well.  I'm very interested in soft-serve ice cream, so the discussion about that was great.

 

I've been following ChefSteps for a little while.  In fact, I made mint chocolate chip ice cream this weekend after being inspired by a recent article.  I even ordered Xantham Gum since I'd never tried using it before.  I have to say, that I like the creamy texture that comes out.  The ice crystals seem smaller resulting in a much smoother product.


Steve Lebowitz
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Steven Howard Confections

Slicing a warm slab of bacon is a lot like giving a ferret a shave. No matter how careful you are, somebody's going to get hurt - Alton Brown, "Good Eats"

#318 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 10:48 AM

Ruben had asked about the butterfat content of the milk and cream I use for ice cream.  The milk and cream I buy are not labeled for butterfat content.  However I believe by US regulations whole milk must be at least 3.25 percent butterfat and heavy cream at least 36% butterfat.

 

Anyhow, I like butterfat.



#319 jrshaul

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 01:43 PM

Has anyone here had success with soft serve from a soft serve machine, a lá Momofuku Milk Bar? The stabilizer and emulsifier requirements appear to be very specific, but the great success of commercial products with high acidity, zero dairy content, and other unusual specifications indicate there's a lot of potential for the technology. 

 

 

And does anyone know where I can get one at a sane price for home use? There seems to be some overlap with margarita machines, of all things. 



#320 mgaretz

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 02:18 PM

I use softserve mix in my home ice cream maker all the time. I have the Kitchenaid attachment. When it comes out of the bowl, it is soft and it hardens up like regular ice cream once it's in the freezer. I think the only reason to have a "real" soft serve machine is if you need to dispense it soft over a long period.

Edited by mgaretz, 15 September 2014 - 02:18 PM.


#321 Lisa Shock

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 05:25 PM

Depending on where you live, there should be a used restaurant equipment company somewhere in your vicinity. Look around and ask around, they often have great deals on items that were only used for a few months. And, there's always eBay, catch is that shipping of larger equipment isn't cheap. But, you might get lucky and find a listing for something you can pick up locally.



#322 DiggingDogFarm

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 05:30 PM

Craigslist, but research available machines VERY carefully.

Some of those machines are notorious for hard-to-find spare parts.


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#323 jrshaul

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 04:49 PM

Craigslist, but research available machines VERY carefully.

Some of those machines are notorious for hard-to-find spare parts.

 

More importantly, all of them have immense power requirements. I could use a step-up transformer for 220 volts, but the 20+ amps would blow the breaker. 



#324 DiggingDogFarm

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 05:06 PM

There are are 110V machines, but if you're set-up for ample total amps, installing a 220v breaker isn't a big deal...no transformer required.


~Martin
 
Unsupervised rebellious radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, self-reliant homesteader and adventurous cook. Crotchety cantankerous terse curmudgeon, nonconformist and contrarian who questions everything!
 


#325 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 10:33 AM

Ruben, any update on your dried milk recipe?



#326 Ruben Porto

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 11:50 AM

Hi Jo!

 

I've been playing around with this recipe for a while now but am still not 100% satisfied. Please give it a go and let me know what you think.

 

 

Use heavy cream at at 36% fat and reduced fat milk at 2% fat – very important that you use the exact fat percentages. Let me know if you can't get these exact fat percentages in the U.S and I will calculate a new recipe with the fat content you guys get.
 
Cream 587g
Milk 303g
Skim milk powder 50g
Sugar 169g
Egg yolks 91g
 
That will give you a 1200g mix. Make sure you use a large 23cm diameter pan and heat the mix for 35 minutes at around 71.4°C. It is extremely important that you reduce the mix by 19% to end up with 50.2% total solids, 20.21% fat, 10.16% non-fat milk solids, 15.75% sugar and 4.08% fat.
 
Before you start heating, weigh your pan (A). Then add the ingredients and weight your mix and the pan together (B). Then heat for 35 minutes and weight the pan and ingredients together again ©. Then do the following to get a reduction percentage B-A= x. C-A=y. x-y/x times 100 = percentage reduction.
 
If you haven’t reduced your mix by 19% after 35 minutes, whack it back on the heat for a couple of minutes and repeat the equation above until you reach 19%.
 
Make sure you age your mix overnight before you churn it. You should get about 811g after heating.
 
Hope that helps. Please let me know how you guys get on with this if you try it.
 
All the best,
 
Ruben 


#327 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 02:08 PM

Ruben, I am confused by your paragraph:

 

"That will give you a 1200g mix. Make sure you use a large 23cm diameter pan and heat the mix for 35 minutes at around 71.4°C. It is extremely important that you reduce the mix by 19% to end up with 50.2% total solids, 20.21% fat, 10.16% non-fat milk solids, 15.75% sugar and 4.08% fat."

 

Fat appears twice in the list at two different percentages.  Sugar at 15.75% sounds sweeter than I would like.

 

I don't have the technology to weigh my pan unfortunately.

 

I would like some ice cream though.



#328 Ruben Porto

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 11:22 AM

Hi again Jo!

 

My bad. '4.08% fat' should read 4.08% egg yolk.

 

Try the following recipe if 15.75% sugar is too sweet:

 

 

Cream 621g
Milk 278g
Skim milk powder 49g
Sugar 161g
Egg yolks 91g

 

This will give you a mix containing 50.40% total solids, 21.32% fat, 10.05% non-fat milk solids, 14.96% sugar, and 4.07% egg yolks.

 

I haven't tried this recipe yet but I suspect it will be quite rich because of the increase in fat from 20 to 21.32%, which may not actually be a bad thing. Just remember to use cream at 36% fat, milk at 2% fat, and reduce your mix by 19%.

 

Please let me know the outcome if you give it a try.

 

Feel free to send questions my way if you need help.

 

All the best, Ruben







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