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Cooking & Curing from "Charcuterie": Part 4

Charcuterie Cookbook

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#61 ronnie_suburban

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 05:16 PM

Thanks, Abra, for the terrific information. It's much appreciated -- as are the great, illustrative pictures.

BTW, how do you like that Ken Onion multi-chef knife? I bought one about 2 years ago and it instantly became one of my faves.

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#62 Chris Amirault

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 05:16 PM

Triumphant. An inspiration. Thanks, Abra!
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#63 Abra

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 06:49 PM

Ron, I love love love that knife. It's my instant fave too. The grip is just phenomenal, and since I always rock, it's the exact thing for me. I do have huge hands, bigger than lots of guys do, and it fits me perfectly. A person with small hands might not love it that much.

And yes, next time I'd use hog casings. Skinny dogs might be authentic to Chicago, but I like more meat in my bun, if you know what I mean.

Edited by Abra, 08 September 2006 - 04:34 PM.


#64 snowangel

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 07:13 PM

Abra, forgive me if you've covered this in the preceeding 61 pages (!), but what kind of stuffer do you use?

Michael, do you wish to share a recipe with us? I sure don't want to buy another book because the one I have is so nicely marked and splattered up!
Susan Fahning aka "snowangel"

#65 Abra

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 07:57 PM

I use the Grizzly vertical stuffer. It's wonderfully easy to use, although it does go better with four hands.

#66 Michael Ruhlman

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 01:59 PM

that's a fantastic report from abra. notice the clean grind, love it. the abundant fat! the difference between the smoked and non, the difference between the texture of the KA and the food processed.

no secrets, recipes are a dime a dozen.

what I like about this that i haven't seen before is using short rib meat, good ratio of meat to fat, not that expensive, and the fat is soft enough to be emulsified. 2.5 pounds diced

second, the ground meat and salts are combined for a day or two so that the salt can work on the salt-soluable myosin, which will help develop a good texture, the main problem with do-at-home emulsified sausages. have i already said this--can't remember if i was writing this in the headnote. 1/2 ounce and one tsp pink salt with 8 oz of ice water

meat is then mixed with seasoning and ground again (garlic, paprika, coriander, mustard, sugar in proportions listed in current recipe, but i encourage improvising), partially freezing each time to ensure the emulsion. than processed for a minute or two, stuffed and smoked to 150. the smoke is really important on this sausage.

so there it is. I had one today on a soft bu with onion and dijon and it was outstanding.

Edited by Michael Ruhlman, 08 September 2006 - 02:03 PM.


#67 FoodMan

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 02:27 PM

Abra-
Thank you for the fantastic report. How many pounds of short ribs did you need to make 2.5 pounds of diced boneless meat?

1/2 ounce and one tsp pink salt with 8 oz of ice water

So is that 1/2 oz or 1 tsp? or is 1/2 oz = 1 tsp?
Thanks for sharing Michael.

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#68 Michael Ruhlman

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 03:15 PM

sorry, you need about 4-1/2 pounds of bone in short ribs.

salt ratio is 1/2 ounce kosher, one teaspoon pink.

#69 mdbasile

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 03:18 PM

Hey All,

Been somewhat remiss in my charcuterie lately, but getting back on track...

You all have been doing some nice work - it would be interesting to compare what we have all been making now vs a few months ago... just seems that the quality has really increased....

I just made the cold smoked Chirizo - it says only 3-5 days for hanging - I assume this means the sausage should still be cooked and not completely dry?

Also - I have a Guiancale question.

I have 2 one I will hang, but the second one I want to smoke.. recomendations please... Cold or hot and for how long ---- and then do I hang it?

Thanks

#70 Abra

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 04:30 PM

I have to say, even though it's anathema and heresy, that adding 1/8 tsp of liquid smoke to the meat will give it much more of a recognizable hot dog flavor, for better or for worse.

I got extra meat for another purpose, and I got 10 lbs of meat and fat from a little over 12 lbs of ribs - it really depends on the ribs. I had the butcher bone them out, and she probably did a lot better job of cleaning the bones than I would have.

I've never heard of smoking guanciale, so I'll be interested to see what poeple have to say about a method. I made a good guanciale using Mario Batail's recipe, but it still wasn't as good as what his Dad Armandino makes at Salumi in Seattle. With no samples or hints, I just asked Armandino "why is my guanciale boring in comparison to yours?" and he right away said "Did you use juniper?" Why no, I didn't, but next time I will.

Edited by Abra, 08 September 2006 - 04:36 PM.


#71 tristar

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 06:36 PM

Hi Abra,

Fantastic documentary, very well done, that is the sort of thing which will encourage newcomers into our 'hardcore' ;-) world!

Regards,
Richard
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#72 mdbasile

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 05:46 AM

Here is my last Guiancale - 1 week cure and 3 weeks hanging:

As I said above trying to decide what to do with the next 2 - smoke one for sure...

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..and cooking some up... man is it good stuff... and really rich...

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Edited by mdbasile, 09 September 2006 - 05:50 AM.


#73 Wurst Case

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 10:30 AM

i have no idea where Rulhman or Brian got the idea that coppa is made with chunks. It NEVER is. It is made from a piece of the pork shoulder, a very specific piece, which is basically behing the head of the pig.

It is hard to explain without pictures where the coppa is located. In italy this is a butchered cut that is sold in supermarkets as a roast. Here you have to buy the whole shoulder (from costco or sam's or whereever) and "carve" it out yourself. Some shoulders come so mangled from the packers that it is almost unretrievable.

jason

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I deferred to brian on that one. I'd had a discussion about it with Anne Burrell, the ace dry curer at mario's italian wine merchant, where it is a whole muscle, shoulder, but she didn't say that it was a particular cut from within the shoulder.

I'd love to know specifics of inner shoulder cut if anyone knows them.

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Hi Michael,

Len Poli's site has photos of the muscle used for coppa. Here's the site: http://home.pacbell....li/page0005.htm

#74 ronnie_suburban

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 10:34 AM

Welcome aboard, Wurst Case. Thanks for the link.

Love the handle, btw :smile:

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#75 mdbasile

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 11:58 AM

So I decided to smoke one Guanciale and cold smoke(for about 1hour) and hang the second.

Here is the smoked one.... totally fell apart when I took it out... but man is it tasty...


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Looks like a turkey doesn't it...

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Here it is after and then a close-up of a small piece:

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#76 ronnie_suburban

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 12:15 PM

Mark, I'm drooling over the guanciale and the 'jowl bacon.' Absolutely beautiful stuff. And yeah, in that one shot, it does look like turkey -- but I'm sure it's a whole lot better than turkey. :wink: :biggrin:

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#77 Wurst Case

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 01:44 PM

I am going to try the soppressata recipe from the book.  Can anyone tell me how to gauge the pH?  Is this done after it is in the casing and has incubated?  If so how do you test with pH paper?  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Jim

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See Paul Bertoli, Cooking by Hand, where he has you testing the pH as it goes into the casing, then 24 hours later, then eight hours later. wHAT IT involves is putting a little stuffing into plastic wrap, then making a slurry with distilled water at each stage. I just ordered the Oakton pHtestr 2 meter that he recommends.

#78 Abra

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 02:10 PM

Welcome, Wurst Case!

Mark, that crisped guanciale looks great. How hot was your smoker on the smoked guanciale attempt? It looks kind of melty, as if it had been up over 160 for at least some of the time.

#79 edsel

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 02:52 PM

See Paul Bertoli, Cooking by Hand, where he has you testing the pH as it goes into the casing, then 24 hours later, then eight hours later.  What it involves is putting a little stuffing into plastic wrap, then making a slurry with distilled water at each stage.  I just ordered the Oakton pHtestr 2 meter that he recommends.

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I'm pleased to see you citing Bertoli's book. The chapter on cured meats is just a small portion of the book, but I find it to be both informative and inspirational. The Ruhlman/Polcyn book is a great resource, but I'm glad that Bertoli devoted so much of his book to the art of hand-cured meat.

FWI: As I type this, John T. Edge is being interviewed on NPR's All Things Considered regarding Armandino Batali's Salumi in Seattle. I think that charcuterie is going mainstream. :smile:

#80 Kerry Beal

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 03:26 PM

I have a technical question for all you charcuterers out there.(is that a word?)

I made pastrami, used a 6 1/2 lb brisket. I decided to use a dextrose dry cure because I really like the stick it in a vacuum sealed bag idea rather than dealing with a wet brine. Search as I might online I couldn't find anything that told me if there was a difference in time between a wet and dry cure.

So after 3 days in the cure the brisket had not attained that stiffness that I found with pork belly at the end of the 1 week dry cure for bacon, but I took it out, let a pellicle form and smoked it to 150 F.

After steaming today I noticed an area in the centre of the meat that the cure had not penetrated.

The question would be - what endpoint are we looking for to determine that a cure is finished? Would that change in texture detected as stiffening be accurate, or are there tables out there that allow you to calculate?

#81 Wurst Case

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 05:40 PM

We're so hardcore!

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Have to admit, it's not the first time I'm been accused of that! It does sound better than fanatical though.

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Halp! Meat curing is taking over my life. I think I am turning into a big sausage!

#82 Ore

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 06:33 PM

Quick question...

Anyone out there hanging any meats to dry for longer then 3 weeks? We would hang Guanciale and Pancetta for at least 3 months prior to eating. I guess the main difference is that we would eat the dryed meats without the addition of heat. We would simply slice and enjoy.

Is anyone curing like this?

Thanks

#83 snowangel

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 06:33 PM

We're so hardcore!

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Have to admit, it's not the first time I'm been accused of that! It does sound better than fanatical though.

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Halp! Meat curing is taking over my life. I think I am turning into a big sausage!

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Welcome, Wurst Case! Yes, this Charcuterie can take over your life. I'm just waiting until I've finished doing some home maintenance and getting the kids re-installed in school until I can get back to the job at hand -- stuffing and curing!
Susan Fahning aka "snowangel"

#84 Wurst Case

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 06:36 PM

Speaking of pork loin.

After my first attempt at lomo curado using a tenderloin (and failing miserably) I tried again with a loin.

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Wonderful, slightly sweet, with a nice fennel and garlic taste.

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The lomo is beautiful. What's your recipe?

#85 jmolinari

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 07:11 PM

Ore, my pancetta is done for at least 30 days, my lamb prosciutto about 45, and i have a pancetta that will be 1 year old in october.

#86 francois

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 08:13 PM

Could there be an error in the 'smoked chicken and roasted garlic sausage' (p. 162)?

It calls for 1 1/2 pounds of pork shoulder for 3 1/2 pounds of chicken. The non-smoked counterparts, (turkey sausage, p. 132, or the chicken sausage with basil (p. 124), call for 1 1/2 pounds of pork fat back for the same amount of chicken/turkey. Considering that pork shoulder is about 30% fat, that makes a big difference in fat content.

In the recipe introduction, it is written that the sausage is not low in fat. It seems to be much leaner than the others. Any thoughts?

#87 Bombdog

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 08:35 PM

Quick question...

Anyone out there hanging any meats to dry for longer then 3 weeks? 

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My salted ham has been hanging for 6 months so far. I weighed it the other day and it still needs at least a month, minimum.
Dave Valentin
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#88 Catherine Iino

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 09:35 PM

My deepest apologies to Bombdog and everyone else for posting a query and then seemingly disappearing, and not acknowledging your kind response. For some reason, "notification of replies" wasn't working for me in midsummer, and so I thought no one had answered. And although I checked in somewhat regularly on the topic, somehow I just missed your response. I must have seemed very inconsiderate. A very belated thanks.

Well, just now I have access to some very fresh, line-caught yellowfin and albacore right off the boat and reasonably priced. I'm ready to try to cure a loin or two. If anyone has any further advice, I'm all ears--and eyes: I will check in religiously.

#89 pedrissimo

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 05:45 AM

Two things:


I too would love to learn from you all about how to tell when a piece of meat has cured- I imagine by touch, but I suppose weight could be used, even when it is in a dry cure- messy as that would be. There ought to be many years of experience among the members of this board by now, especially some of you who mess around with more than one project a week like me!

Also- Salt. Reading this book and Mark Kurlansky's book on salt have filled my imagination for the last six months. First, where can one get large quantities of un iodized salt? Neither Costco nor the more evil twin of it seem to carry it (though I once was able to get unbleahed flour at 25lbs/$5). Any ohter ideas? Also, where might one find other salts? I am happy to pay a bit of money for hand-made salt, but would really love to find interesting salt with mineral 'impurities' for better than the boutique prices I would pay now- after all, natural salt is not all that rare...


Thanks again for this wonderful resource!


This week I made my first successful confit. That duck seemed to be half fat! But oh, how tasty it was, all garlic and sage and juniper and salty

#90 mdbasile

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 07:29 AM

Mark, I'm drooling over the guanciale and the 'jowl bacon.'  Absolutely beautiful stuff.  And yeah, in that one shot, it does look like turkey -- but I'm sure it's a whole lot better than turkey. :wink: :biggrin:

=R=

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Thanks Ron... I am liking the Jowl Bacon -- nice a sweet with a big smokey flavor.

I will be interested to see how the cold smoked one that is hanging turns out.

I have one problem though. I will be leaving on a 2 week trip in about 2.5 weeks. Do I keep it hanging for the 5 weeks or pull it down after 2.5 weeks?





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