52 replies to this topic

[offcentre]

Couldn't agree more with this article..

http://m.guardian.co...at=lifeandstyle

[david goodfellow]

Don't miss the comments section. Its very illuminating in its own right.

[Harters]

Funnily enough, when I was leaving a restaurant recently (not a top flight one), the chef asked me how it had been and if there was anything to be done to improve the experience. I hadnt got my thoughts together so just muttered that it had been OK. Next day, I emailed him with some comments - some good, some not so good. Never heard anything back from him. Not even "You're talking bollocks, Harters"

[david goodfellow]

Some of the other papers have picked up on it now. This one is from The Mail.

http://www.dailymail...e-A-review.html

[PSmith]

It does seem however, that there are a few bloggers out there who will give a bad review in order to gain a higher profile for their blog (and therefore hopefully some freebies)

Just saying.........

[liuzhou]

It does seem however, that there are a few bloggers out there who will give a bad review

But he didn't give a bad review. He didn't enjoy one component of his meal and said so. What is wrong with that?

These chefs are pompous, egotistical idiots. They should be ashamed. And shunned.

[PSmith]

Seems that there is more to the story than being reported in the media.

The blogger was on a freebie - was invited by the chef, also taken into the kitchen, met with Bosi and when asked, told Bosi what a wonderful meal he had eaten.

However, Bosi was wrong to react in the way he did, but the blogger didn't have the balls to say what he really thought to his face.

In my view the whole system is crock. The chefs for flirting with bloggers and bloggers who give bad reviews without being qualified or understanding the ratifications. My old Dad used to say "If you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all". Wish I could live up to that..... ;)

[liuzhou]

The blogger was on a freebie - was invited by the chef, also taken into the kitchen, met with Bosi and when asked, told Bosi what a wonderful meal he had eaten.

Do you actually have any evidence for that?

He has denied every being in the kitchen. He admitted he said his meal was OK when asked, as 99% of customers do. No one has mentioned "what a wonderful meal".

And even if he was on a freebie (something I haven't seen mentioned anywhere else) then he is still entitled to say he didn't like one part of his meal without being subjected to a torrent of abuse.

Edited by liuzhou, 09 November 2012 - 07:57 AM.

[marcusjames]

To provide a further piece of context, the word c$%t is frequently bandied around in the catering industry - high-end professional kitchens in particular - and doesn't hold the same level of taboo and insult as it does in the wider world.

That being said, although Claude may have had a justified grievance, the use of the word did overstep the mark a tad and it would be nice to see some form of contrition from #chefsunite moving forward.

Still, it proves the theory that anger and / or drinking don't mix with social media (which in itself is a sub-division of don't drink and dial). One can only wonder what fun we would have had if Twitter had been around during Marco Pierre White's Harvey's heyday!

Edited by marcusjames, 09 November 2012 - 09:57 AM.

[PSmith]

To provide a further piece of context, the word c$%t is frequently bandied around in the catering industry - high-end professional kitchens in particular - and doesn't hold the same level of taboo and insult as it does in the wider world.

Indeed - I worked in the building industry for many years and you get numb to the "C" word after a week as it is part of every sentence

Must admit that I spent many years in the

The blogger was on a freebie - was invited by the chef, also taken into the kitchen, met with Bosi and when asked, told Bosi what a wonderful meal he had eaten.

Do you actually have any evidence for that?.

Nah - hands up - it is just kitchen gossip

[david goodfellow]

I do wish people would get their facts right instead of blabbing off.

This piece refutes any hint of freebies whatsoever.

http://www.spearswms...-responds.thtml

Edited by david goodfellow, 09 November 2012 - 10:36 AM.

[Jaymes]

To provide a further piece of context, the word c$%t is frequently bandied around in the catering industry - high-end professional kitchens in particular - and doesn't hold the same level of taboo and insult as it does in the wider world.

Indeed - I worked in the building industry for many years and you get numb to the "C" word after a week as it is part of every sentence

What is it about supposedly-mature men that the worst thing they can think of to call one another is something relating to female genitalia?

Just like infantile adolescent boys in a schoolyard calling one another pussy.

They seriously should be embarrassed if that's the best (worst) they can do.

.

Edited by Jaymes, 09 November 2012 - 10:36 AM.

[radtek]

Ah such a shame. Some of the Chef's I've worked made a fine art out of sarcasm and had little to no respect for anyone unless they could gain something from them. Bullies would be an apt description. Sounds like things haven't changed one bit.

[PSmith]

Ah such a shame. Some of the Chef's I've worked made a fine art out of sarcasm and had little to no respect for anyone unless they could gain something from them. Bullies would be an apt description. Sounds like things haven't changed one bit.

You are totally correct in your observation, but it also applies to a lot of very successful high profile people. I don't expect that Donald Trump or Alan Sugar got where they are by being nice.

[radtek]

Agreed. Thankfully it isn't the only path to success. Some of the most successful prolific people I know are also the most gracious generous forgiving folk one would care to meet. It is amazing however, how some of the most rotten douchebags emerge cleanly from the the chaos they've caused on their way to the next step up.

[Tim6]

Ignore the blogger, whatever. It's still a horrible way for these chefs to act. These guys are celebrities in this industry and running their mouths like that where anyone can see is disgusting. It's not the way you run a business and it's a very immature way for grown men to act.

P.S. I've been to Hibiscus, it really wasn't very good. Mr Isherwood's gave a better review than I would have.

[olicollett]

To provide a further piece of context, the word c$%t is frequently bandied around in the catering industry - high-end professional kitchens in particular - and doesn't hold the same level of taboo and insult as it does in the wider world.

Indeed - I worked in the building industry for many years and you get numb to the "C" word after a week as it is part of every sentence

What is it about supposedly-mature men that the worst thing they can think of to call one another is something relating to female genitalia?

Just like infantile adolescent boys in a schoolyard calling one another pussy.

They seriously should be embarrassed if that's the best (worst) they can do.

.

Sorry to divert the thread briefly but please note that using the "C" word in parts of the UK is not the same as using it in the US.

Anyway, both parties could have come out of this a lot better by not engaging in the whole thing. All rather silly.

[david goodfellow]

I thought this little blog about #Bosigate was hilarious. What a pith take and it mentions my mate Scrat Brains. Love it.

http://yugnicheats.w...ozi-got-angrey/

[Man]

We know the characters of the pathetic play:

The self-important 'amateur' blogger who announces his visit beforehand and asks for an interview.

The self-important chef who is hurt by any criticism and can only react with vulgar insults.

If only bloggers just turned up, took pics, ate and wrote. And if only chefs cooked, shut up and stopped whoring to bloggers and bitching about them when it doesn't work. Any blogger who asks for an interview should be banned from the kitchen, not invited in...

[liuzhou]

Any blogger who asks for an interview should be banned from the kitchen, not invited in...

Why?

[PSmith]

We know the characters of the pathetic play:

The self-important 'amateur' blogger who announces his visit beforehand and asks for an interview.

The self-important chef who is hurt by any criticism and can only react with vulgar insults.

If only bloggers just turned up, took pics, ate and wrote. And if only chefs cooked, shut up and stopped whoring to bloggers and bitching about them when it doesn't work. Any blogger who asks for an interview should be banned from the kitchen, not invited in...

+ 1 - nicely put Mr Man

[Scott]

The blogger was on a freebie - was invited by the chef, also taken into the kitchen, met with Bosi and when asked, told Bosi what a wonderful meal he had eaten.

Do you actually have any evidence for that?

He has denied every being in the kitchen. He admitted he said his meal was OK when asked, as 99% of customers do. No one has mentioned "what a wonderful meal".

And even if he was on a freebie (something I haven't seen mentioned anywhere else) then he is still entitled to say he didn't like one part of his meal without being subjected to a torrent of abuse.

Bosi's reaction was OTT, offensive and wrong; Kerridge & particularly his wife were wrong to get involved; and Bains' might have been worst of all

Tristan Welch's comments weren't needed either, suggesting maybe James shouldn't write a review if he was too drunk to remember what happened it kitchen

However the blogger is a clown too. He's changed his story, and told a few porkies to make sure momentum keeps going in his favour. For example he's started reinventing the content of deleted tweets, suggesting they said they were going to get a gun and come find him. This did not happen, i watched unfold live at the time. There was no suggestion of any real threat or coming to find him, its just an embellishment

There are a few things we know, and isherwood doesn't come off smelling of roses either.

- he is a new food blogger of very modest knowledge & writing ability
- he met Bosi at the cube and made introductions & entreaties about interviewing him
- Bosi invited him to hibiscus, and they exchanged a number of messages to set things up (cannot comment on
Whether freebie or not)
* worth noting Bosi was aware that "dining with james" had only a handful of posts, was written by someone just starting out with little real knowledge, but plenty of enthusiasm. I think he was generous in his time, and was trying to help the guy out, give him a leg up.
- the meal happened
- extra courses were sent
- he was invited into the kitchen after and went (both sides acknowledge this).
- Bosi claims he asked how it all was (of course, its not credible after all the pre-amble msgs etc to believe he didn't enquire) and that he was told it was all great
- Isherwood tweets afterwards to Bosi about what a great time he and his (first) date had
* footnote James first denied going into kitchen, then suggested bosi didn't ask how it was, then accused claude of deliberately lying about asking him, and has now finally settled on the story that he was in kitchen, was asked, and only said it was fine because he was put on spot and didnt want to cause a scene in front of his date. Nb tweet after meal gushing about great it was
- published review and posted on trip advisor (very low quality review. Clumsy & badly written with a bitchy final slap in face suggesting it wasn't really a 2* meal like wareing or the ledbury).
- Bosi sees it on trip advisor, flips and thinks this young guy he was trying to help has just kicked him in balls; especially seeing how he sucked up at the cube, in email & in the kitchen afterwards
- other chefs frustrated with idiot bloggers themselves pile in and ultimately start bullying this one guy

James Isherwood clearly didn't think he was doing anything wrong, and almost certainly didn't mean to. His problem is that he's an idiot himself, and thought he had an obligation to tell it like it is, and that Bosi should respect that as a peer.

He was ultimately too inexperienced to realise that you can't buddy up to a volatile chef, take all the benefits, and then bite the hand that has literally fed you. He is quite simply a tosser, but not the only one in this situation

And what's more he has gotten to liking his 15mins...

[marcusjames]

There was a debate on here last year about taking photos in restaurants focusing on those that allowed it and those that didn't. This debate is now becoming a slight extension of that considering blogging and social media is another form of possible promotion: ultimately, should chef's embrace it or not? I think the disclocate comes - and here's the gamble on their part - when these bloggers give negative reviews, in most cases they are people who haven't trained in the industry, know nothing of the processes involved and often expose their, albeit passionate, ignorance. I can see how that would get my professional back up; as MPW once said of Michelin, "You're ultimately being judged by people who know a lot less about cooking than you." Same is true of professional critics as it goes; these are journalists who usually migrate into their positions with absolutely no catering background whatosever. You do, therefore, have to sympathise with chefs at a certain, trailblazing level. I think in their world the only justifiable criticism they actually feel comfortable with, or respect, is that of their peers.

As Man points out, maybe it should all be done anonymously, if the chef hasn't courted or engaged the blogger they can not feel betrayed. That being said, if they know they're coming in, why shouldn't they fluff them a bit and make them feel special? It's no different to any more traditional business showing hospitality to their clients in order to grow and further their business. However, therein lies the answer (I think), if a more traditional business does pursue a client and the contract still remains elusive, they don't jump to Twitter to profanically (new word?) denounce them. Yes, it's a disappointment, but all you can do is absorb, smile and roll with it in a politcially polite manner. But that neatly brings us back round to the dislocate issue and, as we all know, isn't something chefs are renowned for. Although it may take a certain degree of colour from the industry (for who honestly doesn't like the romantic notion of the anarchic chef?), it's something they may well have to learn in the digital age.

Edited by marcusjames, 10 November 2012 - 07:58 AM.

[Scott]

I do wish people would get their facts right instead of blabbing off.

This piece refutes any hint of freebies whatsoever.

http://www.spearswms...-responds.thtml

Steady on, he has already flip flopped a few times on his version of the facts

Notice he doesn't mention the post meal tweet on how good it was, how much he'd been drinking, or how he had been denying ever having been in the kitchen (source: his tweets as it unfolded)

[Chaihana Joe]

Everyone - Isherwood and the chefs - has dropped a bollock here.

The only issue is whether or not the meal in question was a freebie. If it wasn't, Isherwood's dropped bollock was a simple case of naivete. If it was, I really hope this incident goes a long way towards bring to an end the practice of blogger freebies. Food blogging seems to me to be a worthwhile and entertaining pastime, but only if the bloggers are getting the very same experience as every other punter. If they're not, it becomes pointless and vain.

[Scott]

Everyone - Isherwood and the chefs - has dropped a bollock here.

The only issue is whether or not the meal in question was a freebie. If it wasn't, Isherwood's dropped bollock was a simple case of naivete. If it was, I really hope this incident goes a long way towards bring to an end the practice of blogger freebies. Food blogging seems to me to be a worthwhile and entertaining pastime, but only if the bloggers are getting the very same experience as every other punter. If they're not, it becomes pointless and vain.

By & large agree.

Problem is bloggers are often attracted by the promise of freebies & superior access.

What has gotten lost is that its only the quality of the commentary that matters, not just that you made the effort.

[Jaymes]

To provide a further piece of context, the word c$%t is frequently bandied around in the catering industry - high-end professional kitchens in particular - and doesn't hold the same level of taboo and insult as it does in the wider world.

Indeed - I worked in the building industry for many years and you get numb to the "C" word after a week as it is part of every sentence

What is it about supposedly-mature men that the worst thing they can think of to call one another is something relating to female genitalia?

Just like infantile adolescent boys in a schoolyard calling one another pussy.

They seriously should be embarrassed if that's the best (worst) they can do.

.

Sorry to divert the thread briefly but please note that using the "C" word in parts of the UK is not the same as using it in the US.

Anyway, both parties could have come out of this a lot better by not engaging in the whole thing. All rather silly.

Sorry to continue the diversion but I know that the "C" word in parts of the UK is not the same thing as using it in the US. "Pussy" isn't considered in most quarters to be the most vile and vulgar and obscene choice of name-calling either.

But my original point still stands.

[david goodfellow]

Everyone - Isherwood and the chefs - has dropped a bollock here.

The only issue is whether or not the meal in question was a freebie. If it wasn't, Isherwood's dropped bollock was a simple case of naivete. If it was, I really hope this incident goes a long way towards bring to an end the practice of blogger freebies. Food blogging seems to me to be a worthwhile and entertaining pastime, but only if the bloggers are getting the very same experience as every other punter. If they're not, it becomes pointless and vain.

By & large agree.

Problem is bloggers are often attracted by the promise of freebies & superior access.

What has gotten lost is that its only the quality of the commentary that matters, not just that you made the effort.

I am not defending Isherwood but why would he risk his credibility lying about paying for the meal. Here is his quote

"He mentioned I was given freebies, but I'm wise enough to know these were amuse bouches - they even appeared on the pre-printed menu they gave to me at the end of the meal "

This never ending accusation that bloggers get free meal after free meal is pure fiction especially from my point of view. In all of my years of dining I have only ever received five in decades, and we eat out an awful lot.

I for one would be very interested if people would name and shame those bloggers who receive these financial incentives. It would help clear up these never ending accusations.

After much annoying innuendo The Critical Couple now put a disclaimer on their site.

Edited by david goodfellow, 10 November 2012 - 11:01 AM.

[PSmith]

Problem is bloggers are often attracted by the promise of freebies & superior access.

Plus the chance to do a bit of Food Bragging to their friends. Some diners get quite sycophantic about the celebrity chef dining scene - it is like collecting Michelin stars are the new cigarette cards.

[olicollett]

Everyone - Isherwood and the chefs - has dropped a bollock here.

The only issue is whether or not the meal in question was a freebie. If it wasn't, Isherwood's dropped bollock was a simple case of naivete. If it was, I really hope this incident goes a long way towards bring to an end the practice of blogger freebies. Food blogging seems to me to be a worthwhile and entertaining pastime, but only if the bloggers are getting the very same experience as every other punter. If they're not, it becomes pointless and vain.

By & large agree.

Problem is bloggers are often attracted by the promise of freebies & superior access.

What has gotten lost is that its only the quality of the commentary that matters, not just that you made the effort.

I am not defending Isherwood but why would he risk his credibility lying about paying for the meal. Here is his quote

"He mentioned I was given freebies, but I'm wise enough to know these were amuse bouches - they even appeared on the pre-printed menu they gave to me at the end of the meal "

This never ending accusation that bloggers get free meal after free meal is pure fiction especially from my point of view. In all of my years of dining I have only ever received five in decades, and we eat out an awful lot.

I for one would be very interested if people would name and shame those bloggers who receive these financial incentives. It would help clear up these never ending accusations.

After much annoying innuendo The Critical Couple now put a disclaimer on their site.

Hang on David - I'm not saying all do but someone did bring up the point of the Cube on twitter - hardly anyone paid for that!