62 replies to this topic

[mskerr]

Hey all-

I would love to make my own chicken stock, but I try to only buy free range and/ or organic chicken from the supermarket. I'm just not that interested in a whole chicken that only costs $5. Problem is, a whole organic chicken at my supermarket costs $18. I could probably use just legs, but even those are really expensive for any sort of quality, at least where I live.
Better than bouillon costs $5 for a jar that makes almost 10 quarts.
What to do?
Every chef I read says making your own stock is essential for taking your cooking to the next level, but it's just not economically feasible for me - except maybe for a special occasion.

[dcarch]

If possible, raise you own chicken.

Don't expect free range organic anything to cost less.

Sorry can't help you much.

dcarch

[Chris Hennes]

There's no magic bullet here: high-quality ingredients cost money (even if you grow/raise them yourself: I'm sure my home-grown tomatoes are actually costing me more than the ones at the supermarket in a full-cost-accounting sense). If they aren't in your budget, they aren't in your budget. That said, I can guarantee you that a chicken stock made using standard supermarket-grade chicken tastes far better than "Better than Bouillon."

[mskerr]

We considered raising chickens this summer, but didn't. For one thing, we would have to be here to feed them and lock them away every night, but we go out of town a lot. Second, with the cost of building a coop, the feed, etc, we wouldn't be saving any money. Third, there's all sorts of wildlife around, so it would've been a bit of a struggle raising chickens here. The coyotes would love to sink their teeth into those little buggers.

I don't doubt that homemade chicken stock from a cheap chicken would taste way better than Better than Bouillion, but like I said, I'm just not interested in buying a whole chicken for $5. I prefer to go without a lot of meat/seafood rather than buy really cheap, low- quality, god- knows-how it-was-raised-or-what-it-ate stuff. My partner finds $5 chickens disgusting as well, so that settles that.

Hmmm, then again, the Better than Bouillon is probably made from cheap chickens too. Damn.

Anyone else think that eating decent food is getting way too complicated in some ways?

[Emily_R]

I know it might not be as good as stock you can make with meat, but stock made with the bones from whatever organic chicken you buy and cook (for roasting or any other meal purposes) can still be tasty... That's what I currently do -- I buy whole free range chickens from a local farmer, and freeze the carcasses after roasting them. Then when I have a few of the carcasses I make stock in my pressure cooker...

[Hassouni]

I know it might not be as good as stock you can make with meat, but stock made with the bones from whatever organic chicken you buy and cook (for roasting or any other meal purposes) can still be tasty... That's what I currently do -- I buy whole free range chickens from a local farmer, and freeze the carcasses after roasting them. Then when I have a few of the carcasses I make stock in my pressure cooker...

I'll take a whole chicken, debone it, use the meat, and then boil the bones. Or you can poach the chicken, get some meaty effect in the broth, bone it, and return the bones and simmer.

OR find organic wings or feet? Those must be cheap.

That being said, Trader Joe's usually has organic free range chickens in the 10 buck range. If you can't find those, try Kosher chickens, which are basically raised the same and sometimes even cheaper.

[nibor]

I am with Emily_R: Save meaty carcasses in the freezer. I recently went on a chicken galantine kick. I made stock from each carcass, then used that stock to poach the next galantine, which produced another carcass, and so on. I have so much (totally delicious) stock in my freezer right now that it is almost a problem.

[jorach]

I save carcasses in the freezer until I have enough to make stock, also sometimes I go to the market they have ethical chicken backs or wingtips super cheap and I'll buy a couple pounds. That's normally when "stock day" happens.

Sit on the carcasses until you see a deal on the backs / tips, and make stock whenever you can.

[FrogPrincesse]

Same here - I use the carcasses with whatever meat is left on them to make stock in my pressure cooker.

[LindaK]

I save carcasses in the freezer until I have enough to make stock, also sometimes I go to the market they have ethical chicken backs or wingtips super cheap and I'll buy a couple pounds. That's normally when "stock day" happens.

Sit on the carcasses until you see a deal on the backs / tips, and make stock whenever you can.

Another vote here. You don't need an $18 chicken for good stock. Adding a lb of wings to a carcass not only adds flavor but body, and if you have any raw chicken scraps to grind and toss in, even better. Quality wings don't have to cost you a lot, I can get them for $2-3 lb at Whole Foods.. A pressure cooker will also make a big difference.

Not as cheap as "better than boullion" but you don't have to make it everyday, just when it really matters to a recipe or when you hit a sale.

[Edward J]

Hey all-


Better than bouillon costs $5 for a jar that makes almost 10 quarts.

I don't quite follow you. You want to use organic chicken, O.K., fair enough.

But-tum----eh....uh, well, what does the ingredient label on the "better than bouillone" say? "made with organic chicken"? or does it say: "Yeast extracts, modified starches and carmelized sugar for colouring"???

[Dexter]

I'm in the "save the carcass" camp as well. I buy whole birds and break them down when I get home with them. Backs, wing ends, etc all go into a bag in the freezer until I've got enough for a batch of stock. Yeah, if you wanted to buy a fresh bird for nothing but stock, you'd spend a fortune, but that's not at all necessary. And, while it's probably got its uses (never tried, so can't really make a call), I noticed that the Better Than Bouillon products are not made with organic meats or veg... So if you are really trying to keep organic, it's not helping.

[SobaAddict70]

At USGM, a free-range, antibiotic-free, organic chicken costs about $25 give or take a few pounds. (USGM = Union Square Greenmarket, our largest farmer's market here in NYC.)

One of those babies will make about five to six quarts of chicken stock. I won't use it all in a week and it begins to pay for itself after the first dinner. When you factor that in, the savings realized over time outweighs the initial cost.

[Mjx]

Have you looked in the freezers? I've found frozen organic broiler chickens (and parts) for way, way less than the cost of a fresh one, and in stock, the possibility of the meat texture being compromised by freezing isn't an issue. I've also occasionally been given elderly, athletic (i.e. almost inedibly tough) roosters by owners who'd become seriously sick and tired of the miserable bastards heralding the sun on an hourly basis starting at 2.00 a.m; and they make incredibly tasty broth.

[ChrisTaylor]

A whole chicken? Use necks, wing tips, whole wings and, too, carcasses.

[haresfur]

At USGM, a free-range, antibiotic-free, organic chicken costs about $25 give or take a few pounds. (USGM = Union Square Greenmarket, our largest farmer's market here in NYC.)

One of those babies will make about five to six quarts of chicken stock. I won't use it all in a week and it begins to pay for itself after the first dinner. When you factor that in, the savings realized over time outweighs the initial cost.

You get 5 quarts of stock out of one chicken? I probably end up with less than a quart after reduction. I usually use chicken frames but I may go to necks or wings that are usually less expensive. Then again I live in a country where you can still get those things - although they are getting harder to find in the supermarkets.

OP could either start with a whole chicken and pull the meat off the bones to eat after cooking and return the bones to the pot or try to find appropriate bits and pieces. Would making stock from cheap necks, wings or bones be ok or do you want free-range stock? I like the idea of raising your own chickens.

[ScottyBoy]

How much are you looking to make? If you contact your local wholesale purveyor they will have organic and non organic options for cases of chicken backs.

[nickrey]

I use free-range chickens, taking off the breasts for other purposes. If you buy these breasts alone, they come close to the cost of the whole chicken so I've rationalised that the stock costs me not very much at all. Plus have you ever looked at the price of real stock that can be purchased in some specialty stores? Home made comes in much cheaper, even if you were to buy organic chickens.

One last question: Why go to the trouble of buying organic or free-range chicken if you then buy bouillon that is not only likely to be stuffed with chemicals but is also a by-product of unfortunate battery hens that were not suitable for selling any other way?

Edited by nickrey, 29 August 2012 - 03:29 AM.

[dcarch]

<sup>Stock Options (for cooking ) :

1. Turkey parts, necks, wings, etc. Very good for "ckicken" stock.
2. Chicken necks, hearts, gizzards.
3. Chicken livers make very flavorful stock, if you like liver flavor.

dcarch</sup>

[SobaAddict70]

At USGM, a free-range, antibiotic-free, organic chicken costs about $25 give or take a few pounds. (USGM = Union Square Greenmarket, our largest farmer's market here in NYC.)

One of those babies will make about five to six quarts of chicken stock. I won't use it all in a week and it begins to pay for itself after the first dinner. When you factor that in, the savings realized over time outweighs the initial cost.

You get 5 quarts of stock out of one chicken? I probably end up with less than a quart after reduction. I usually use chicken frames but I may go to necks or wings that are usually less expensive. Then again I live in a country where you can still get those things - although they are getting harder to find in the supermarkets.

OP could either start with a whole chicken and pull the meat off the bones to eat after cooking and return the bones to the pot or try to find appropriate bits and pieces. Would making stock from cheap necks, wings or bones be ok or do you want free-range stock? I like the idea of raising your own chickens.

Whoops. I thought that was a little too generous as well, then went back and looked at my notes. More like 2.5 quarts, but I don't reduce it as much as some folks do. At some point, my stomach can't handle the amazing aroma that comes out of my kitchen.



But still, I don't see the OP using all that in a week, unless he's making risotto every few days.

[slkinsey]

Better than Bouillon brings practically no gelatin to the table and doesn't taste all that great to begin with. So you have to factor that in to your comparison. Meanwhile, as others have pointed out, chicken stock can be effectively free if you buy chicken on the bone, debone it yourself and save the meaty bones (along with all the trim and scraps) in the freezer until you have enough saved up to make a batch of stock. If you have the freezer space, there really is no reason to buy any of the ingredients specifically to make chicken stock. You should be able to make it all from scraps, reserved meaty raw bones, vegetable trimmings, etc.

[SobaAddict70]

and don't forget the feet.

if you live in NYC, an inexpensive option is to get the chicken from Chinatown. as in "live". but I don't know whether it's organic or free-range.

[Brown Hornet]

mskerr, I sympathize with your concerns -- always trade offs with food quality v. cost.

I think part of your problem is the assumption that one would use an $18 whole chicken simply to make stock. When I'm not being lazy (which is most of the time) I buy whole chickens instead of parts so I can make full use of all the chicken parts including the carcass and wings tips for stock. After you process 2-3 whole chickens you should have most than enough parts to make plenty of great stock. You can also re-use the carcass from a roasted whole chicken for stock as well. If you can get in the habit of always buying whole chickens, you'll never be at a loss for stock fixins'.

[nibor]

I used to avoid buying whole chickens due to the laziness factor.
Once I got a sharp boning knife I started viewing them as fun....

[mskerr]

Thanks for all the input! I am starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel - using a variety of cheaper parts and saving carcasses sounds like the way to go for me. Also, I probably should make the shlep to Trader Joe's to get a better deal (it's 2-3 hours away, but we pass it on the way to visit friends or work out of town).
A lot of the recipes I've been reading lately call for a whole chicken. How does stock made from a whole chicken compare to stock made from a variety of bones and cuts compare in your experiences? Over the last few months, I've come to really appreciate bones after realizing how much better my lamb soup is now that I make it with meaty bones instead of ground lamb. So much more body and flavor! Plus, there is something so satisfying about eating meat off a bone.
I do make heaps and heaps of soup, so homemade stock is becoming more and more inevitable.

As for using Better than Bouillion... It's a very imperfect compromise while I figure out a better way. I have a pretty haphazard approach to buying conventional/ free- range/ organic/ what- have- you. I am totally confused right now about how to balance ethics and economics. I'm only 26 and do not have regular employment or steady income. I have annoyingly persistent ethical pangs about food, but also appreciate all kinds of food, especially affordable or just plain tasty food. I used to try to only buy organic food, but it basically consumed my entire budget. And then I read in the news about how a lot of organic stuff isn't that flash anyway, and... It all just goes in circles! My favorite meal out is a burrito from the local roach coach, so I eat my fair share of cheap and questionable meat. I buy Better than Bouillion for now because (1) it is recommended in the Cooks Illustrated taste tests, and the supermarket chicken (Foster's) is not, and (2) it's economical. Yep, I realize now that it's made from cheap chickens, but alas, I still can't quite bring myself to buy a $5 whole chicken myself at the supermarket. I wish I could because supermarket chicken (and pork) is just unbelievably cheap. Dunno how much flavor it has though!

Nickrey: I really like your suggestion of buying a whole chicken, setting aside the breasts and using the rest for stock. An organic chicken breast alone costs $10 at my supermarket, so a $12-13 chicken from Trader Joe's would basically give me stock for free.

Mjx- I haven't noticed any chickens in the freezer yet, will look around.

I have been keeping an eye out for kosher chickens but haven't noticed any yet. Any tips where to look?

On another note - I read in Michael Symon's cookbook that soup can create its own stock as it cooks. He said something like 'What's in stock? Meat, bones, vegetables... What's in soup? Meat, bones, vegetables...'. Any ideas on how to use this approach?

Once again, thank you for all the input!

[CaliPoutine]

Hey all-


Better than bouillon costs $5 for a jar that makes almost 10 quarts.

I don't quite follow you. You want to use organic chicken, O.K., fair enough.

But-tum----eh....uh, well, what does the ingredient label on the "better than bouillone" say? "made with organic chicken"? or does it say: "Yeast extracts, modified starches and carmelized sugar for colouring"???

I actually like the organic Better than boullion in a pinch. Say, I just need a cup of stock or so, its a good products with real chicken as an ingredient.

[ojisan]

FYI - Costco sells the organic/lower sodium version of Better Than Boullion, both chicken and vegetable. The chicken has no unusual ingredients except maltodextrin.

[mkayahara]

If you have a good source for organic eggs, ask them what they do with their spent hens. Where I am, they're still more expensive than grocery-store roasters, but cheaper than organic free-range roasters.

[mskerr]

Nice! I haven't seen the organic version yet, even at health stores. I will have to track some down. Even when I do start making my own stock, it's always nice to have a back- up in a pinch.

Plus, no one that I cook for is fussy at all. My partner and friends (and, lots of time, I) are all quite happy to have fish sticks and fried eggs for dinner. But over the long- term, I would like to cook as well as I can.

Anyone have tips on finding local chickens from farmers? And do they work out any cheaper, or is it all about better quality? I think Craigslist would probably work.

[Broken English]

I'm not sure exactly what this thread is about. Does it not make sense to buy a whole organic chicken, break it down and make stock from the carcass?

Unless you're ripping through it, that much stock should be more than enough for a week, and you can always boost it a little with powder if you're running short (I find that the MSG in the powder actually makes regular chicken stock taste better).