152 replies to this topic

[RDB]

I have spent an evening having a few oyster stouts with Richard and he is sound, however would not like to get on the wrong side of him.
Another good guy Chris Bell seems to be heads above the other two, who are either trying way too hard or being too simplistic. I miss Chris's presence in nthe northwest, must give his restaurant a try in NI.

[Toufas]

What was that elastine/elastic blend that Johnny mountain was using? He mention carrageenan/agar amongst the ingredients

[david goodfellow]

Twitter is buzzing with comments on Mr Mountain's departure and of course Aiden Byrne's stunning 10/10 for his salmon dish. Bet the viewing figures for tonights episode were through the roof.
Be interesting to see who goes through. Its neck and neck now between Aiden and Simon.

[Prawncrackers]

Shame about Rogan's lobster dish not being lobstery enough, maybe he should have used a real native lobster. But Aiden's salmon looked like a 10/10 on appearance alone, stunning.

[Toufas]

I am sure Marcus doesn't mind. Let's not forget for who he was working for before :P

[&roid]

From the looks of the clips of tomorrow's episode it would appear that Johnny has flounced out altogether. Pretty ridiculous behaviour if he has, why would you put yourself into the competition if you can't take criticism?

[KaffirLime]

Actually I think Marcus was completely out of order, heaping high praise on the other two dishes (even though the lobster dish was flawed) and then basically telling Johnny he was a silly little boy who was just playing with toys. It seemed clear thought that knew how to 'play with his toys' because the execution of the dish seemed spot on. Marcus just couldn't get his head around it because it didn't have 'fish' in it. What did he want, a lump of cod in batter? Johnny's dish certainly had shell-fish and anchovy elements anyway. I also can't believe that in all the years of Great British Menu this is isn't the first time anything like this has happened but just as surely as they have been edited out in the past, it seems this was left in for effect.

From the info about tomorrows programme that I've read it seems that Johnny is back.

[Digijam]

What was that elastine/elastic blend that Johnny mountain was using? He mention carrageenan/agar amongst the ingredients

I believe Sosa's Elastic is a carrageenan and bean gum blend, not agar - the addition of lbg gives something stronger and more stable than a regular kappa gel. They often use the same sort of blend with jellies for store-bought desserts and pet foods.

[Simon_S]

Well obviously I can barely stick the excitement of it all, but I think 2/10 was a bit ridiculous for that dish. I feel a bit sorry for Johnny really.

[david goodfellow]

Well obviously I can barely stick the excitement of it all, but I think 2/10 was a bit ridiculous for that dish. I feel a bit sorry for Johnny really.

I agree. Marcus Wareing went for the throat with that score. Johnny has come over well this year also.

Surely the dish could not have been that bad if Ashley Palmer Watts cast an eye over it.

Still I'm not a chef and did not taste it, but 2/10 is just, well, unbelievable.

[Prawncrackers]

He was using a lot of smoke flavours in that jelly. If he overdid it then I can imagine a solid puck of fishy smokey jelly would be close to inedible. Contrast the fish dish that Colin whathisname did a couple of weeks back. An elegent sheet of thin jelly to represent the sea and more importantly a good chunk of red mullet to represent er, the seafood.

[RedRum]

When I saw the dish, with the jelly-fish like thing on the side, I thought it looked inedible. He tried to mimic Heston's Sound of the Sea. But he forgot that Heston spends a least two years before he puts a new dish up, Jonny boy wanted to recreate something like that in a couple of hours of research... Aiden's reaction when he ate the jelly was indicative that the dish was almost inedible. If that is the case, Marcus had two choises. Playing it PC and giving him a mark of 4-5, or be honest and give him what he really thought. I am glad he did the latter!

[KaffirLime]

Yes but the brief is to push boundaries and I don't think they are given two years to come up with a dish. I don't want to come across as Johnny Mountain's No 1 fan but did either of the other two dishes push boundaries, or were they just safe dishes with a little tweak? Arguably Johnny Mountain is the only guy answering the brief by pushing himself beyond his comfort zone. How hot under the collar did Rogan get grilling a salad for his starter?

But apart from that, the duty of a judge is surely to be even-handed and fair. Rogan bought in a miniature science lab which suceeded in adding diddly squat to his lobster and he under-cooked the beetroot yet he still got a more than decent score. Mountain's dish would have had to be gag-inducingly bad to warrant a 2 and I doubt it was that. To me it was nothing short of an unjustified kicking and I can fully understand Mountain's reaction.

Edited by KaffirLime, 09 May 2012 - 09:30 AM.

[david goodfellow]

You may (or may not) like to read someone elses view on the Marcus Wareing v Johnny Mountain debate including many comments for and against on twitter.

http://www.catererse...e-mountain.html


Love @nutsfood photo its ace.

Edited by david goodfellow, 09 May 2012 - 09:49 AM.

[MaLO]

The score of 2 did seem harsh although no one beside Johnny seemed to like anything about it. It seemed to me that as an item on a large tasting menu it might have been ok - supposing it didn't taste bad, it could be ok as one plate in 15 or 20. As a fish course on a four course menu then I would expect to see fish, very good fish please. I dont know what Johnnys food is like generally, never eaten it, but he seems like an interesting chap.

I think the pushing boundaries / innovation aspect of the spec is a pointless distraction as it has generated some fairly odd concepts and gimicks.I would have prefered the olympic bit to be about perfection not innovation. Maybe Usain Bolt will turn up for the 100 metres on a pogo stick?

[KaffirLime]

Regardless of whether we agree with the brief or not, that is what it is and to my mind neither of the remaining chefs are really answering it and Marcus is guilty of very poor judging - marking highly for food that he personally likes rather than food that answers the brief. Tell me what pushed the boundaries with tonights dishes? Byrne attempted it with his spherifcation but failed and Rogan somehow thought using vegetables that had been stored in sand was ground breaking. I've yet to see Rogan do anything other conventional cooking but he can seemingly do no wrong in Marcus's eyes.

Nice to see that a lot of the comments on 'Satellite Dishes' that David linked to agree with mine. Particularly liked the one that said 'hilarious that a 2* chef doesn't know anchovy is a fish'

Regardless though I think the quote of the entire series must go to Aiden for "You can't stand there championing a dish with a turnip that isn't your own".

Edited by KaffirLime, 09 May 2012 - 12:13 PM.

[&roid]

Yes but the brief is to push boundaries and I don't think they are given two years to come up with a dish. I don't want to come across as Johnny Mountain's No 1 fan but did either of the other two dishes push boundaries, or were they just safe dishes with a little tweak? Arguably Johnny Mountain is the only guy answering the brief by pushing himself beyond his comfort zone. How hot under the collar did Rogan get grilling a salad for his starter?

But apart from that, the duty of a judge is surely to be even-handed and fair. Rogan bought in a miniature science lab which suceeded in adding diddly squat to his lobster and he under-cooked the beetroot yet he still got a more than decent score. Mountain's dish would have had to be gag-inducingly bad to warrant a 2 and I doubt it was that. To me it was nothing short of an unjustified kicking and I can fully understand Mountain's reaction.

Which is exactly what Aiden did when he ate it.

As PrawnCrackers and RedRum said, if that lump of jelly was overly smoky and fishy I can imagine it being horrible. Then what are you left with? A couple of anchovies and some sand ripped off a five year old Heston idea.

At the end of the day he KNEW he was taking a risk doing what he did, it clearly didn't come off as far as the person judging was concerned, so why the hissy fit when he was marked badly?? Want to ensure yourself a 6+? Go for something pedestrian (like todays meat courses). Want to shoot for a 9/10 with the possibility of bombing? Go for something like the Mountain dish, it'll either work or it won't, but if it doesn't don't quit the whole competition.

[Toufas]

I have to say that I feel bad for Johnny, but I really enjoyed the main course episode. Maybe they should implement that in the next years GBM, having the mentor helping both chefs to improve their dishes so their region can be better represented at the final?

Edited by Toufas, 09 May 2012 - 01:25 PM.

[KaffirLime]

You have a point &roid but the main argument against you is the fact that the brief does not call for pedestrian. That fact that both main courses today were and went on to get high marks just makes Marcus's judgement even more laughable. He's the guy that should be out of the competition in my books for gross incompetance. Following shortly after him should be the televison production company. Continuing to film after Johnny walked out to allow viewers to hear pots being thrown about off-set was completely unprofessional. I understand that the series is waning but to try to inject interest into it in this way has turned a so called proffesional competition into Big brother car crash TV.

Edited by KaffirLime, 09 May 2012 - 01:19 PM.

[Patrick_O]

I think there was enough technical ability shown in Johnny's dish to merit more than a 2...very insulting score to give him.

Marcus clearly leans towards classical dishes as we saw last night when we raved about essentially a couple of high end meat and two veg plates.

[Chris Hill]

As Ashley Palmer Watts pointed out though, technical ability is not really the aim, every element on the plate still has to taste nice. Clearly that wasn't the case with the dish, everyone that tried it really didn't like it at all. They want boundary pushing food that will be eaten in a celebratory dinner. Serving something that very few people (if any) will like is *massively* missing the brief.
That said, we've only seen what the producers wanted us to see. I'm sure it's all been edited to suit a particular narrative.

[olicollett]

Rotovap action

[spanielking]

The GBM format reminds me a little of this

[olicollett]

The GBM format reminds me a little of this

I think US TV Started it

[&roid]

As Ashley Palmer Watts pointed out though, technical ability is not really the aim, every element on the plate still has to taste nice. Clearly that wasn't the case with the dish, everyone that tried it really didn't like it at all. They want boundary pushing food that will be eaten in a celebratory dinner. Serving something that very few people (if any) will like is *massively* missing the brief.
That said, we've only seen what the producers wanted us to see. I'm sure it's all been edited to suit a particular narrative.

Exactly.

The GBM format reminds me a little of this

Love it

[david goodfellow]

So who's going to win it?

We have eaten both Simon's and Aidens food in the last few weeks, and today actually eaten Aiden's GBM dishes, and do you know what. They are both great chefs, its very difficult to choose.

I am very interested to see what the judges think of all of the dishes, because these guys have been neck and neck throughout the competition.

Not long now.

[marcusjames]

Felt very sorry for Aiden. I do like that classical approach, perfectly executed with contemporary presentation. I don't quite know what happened over Aiden's tenure at The Dorchester, but it would have been very interesting to see where he would be today had he remained... multiple stars would be my guess.

Going back to Johnny, I don't know how much editorial production and the guest judges liaise, but giving him 2 was asking for it. Compared to the other scores, it put him so far out of touching distance what was the point of carrying on? He could never have caught up. Having said that, and again a BBC issue, it would help if they gave a chef with an actual restaurant a shout. Have I got it wrong, or is Johnny currently a chef without portfolio? Even if he did/does have a venue, he was totally outclassed. I think any member here could have told them that well in advance of the competition. Aunty, if you're reading, call me, I could spare you these blushes! ;-)

[MaLO]

That was very close. Simon's food loked fantastic, as did Aiden's.
I cant imagine pork winning the main though - I guess there will be too many non pork eaters for it to win. I think Daniel's chicken creation will take some beating.
I think I will try to fit in a visit to L'enclume some time over the summer.

[Toufas]

I was actually on the fence for it. Aiden didn't come as a nice guy during his past 2 attempts, but this year he seemed more mature to be honest. Both menus looked really good.

[david goodfellow]

Personally this has been one, if not the best week of GBM. Three big personalities in the kitchen with Simon and Aiden cooking their socks off.
Aiden has upped his game this year, his dishes were excellent. just a shame for him that Simon was, as always, on top form, or this would have been Aiden's year.

Must not forget John Mountain who has suffered deep depression through being publically humiliated on national television. His gut wrenching fall into the dark cavernous pit of despair can be read below.

http://chefhermes.com/

He has publically stated thankfully that he is better now.

Edited by david goodfellow, 12 May 2012 - 01:09 AM.