293 replies to this topic

[baroness]

Pecan: peh-KAHN

I'll take mine roasted with a touch of salt!

[BrentKulman]

I once heard the owner of the Young Pecan Company speak at an awards banquet. He said, "Mah bidness is turnin' PEE-cans into pe-KAHNS." Great line and it sums up the debate.

[Hassouni]

Mocha of course comes from the Yemeni city of Mukhaa, pronounced just as it looks (I can't really think of another way to break it down - perhaps m-oo like in "book" and kha with the a in "father" and of course a very hard "kh" in the throat, harsher than German - think Dutch.

[slkinsey]

As a non-American, I'm curious how 'croissant', 'habanero', 'chipotle', 'jalapeño', and 'mocha' are all pronounced up there.

Is there any consensus on 'pecan', too?

As far as 'gyro/gyros' goes, is it at all common to see it written as 'yeeros', in the US/UK?

The most common approximations into English are:

croissant = kwa-sawn(t) (also sometimes simply as "crescent")

habanero = one most often hears ha-ba-nyeh-row (despite the fact that there is no diacritical mark over the "n" and it should be ah-ba-neh-row)

chipotle = chih-poe-tlay

jalapeño = ha-la-pain-yo (one does also hear: ha-la-peen-uh)

mocha = mow-ka

pecan = pih-kawn (one does also hear: pee-can)

gyros is never written as yeeros in the US, to my knowledge.

[Jaymes]

jalapeño = ha-la-pain-yo (one does also hear: ha-la-peen-uh)

gyros is never written as yeeros in the US, to my knowledge.

As you point out, one may "also hear" hal-a-PEEN-no, but that's so wrong that it's irritating to the ear and grating on the nerves. We have an enormous Spanish-speaking population in the US and the popularity of Mexican food and its ingredients can't possibly be overstated. It's not like jalapeño is some exotic ingredient from some foreign land like Outer Slobovia and it's asking waaaaaay too much for Americans to be able to correctly pronounce the names of even the most obscure Outer Slobovian ingredients. And nobody takes Slobovian in our high schools.

But there's not a single American that hasn't heard 'Jalapeño' pronounced correctly a million times. All they'd have to do is to care enough to listen once or twice and make just the tiniest effort to get it right.

I've never seen "yeeros" on a menu here, either. But you do see "heros" quite a lot. So often, in fact, that I doubt most Americans even make the connection to gyros.

Edited by Jaymes, 12 December 2011 - 09:54 AM.

[slkinsey]

jalapeño = ha-la-pain-yo (one does also hear: ha-la-peen-uh)

As you point out, one may "also hear" hal-a-PEEN-no, but that's so wrong that it's irritating to the ear and grating on the nerves. We have an enormous Spanish-speaking population in the US and the popularity of Mexican food and its ingredients can't possibly be overstated. It's not like jalapeño is some exotic ingredient from some foreign land like Outer Slobovia and it's asking waaaaaay too much for Americans to be able to correctly pronounce the names of even the most obscure Outer Slobovian ingredients. And nobody takes Slobovian in our high schools.

I get your point. But, yanno... the places where we tend to hear it that way are the same places that have been saying San Jacinto as "san jah-sin-tuh" and Amarillo as "am-a-rill-uh."

I've never seen "yeeros" on a menu here, either. But you do see "heros" quite a lot. So often, in fact, that I doubt most Americans even make the connection to gyros.

I think people don't make that connection because there isn't one. Heros (as in "hero sandwich") are associated with Italian-Americans, not Greek-Americans. "Gyros" also didn't enter the American lexicon until the late 1960s.

Edited by slkinsey, 12 December 2011 - 11:06 AM.

[Hassouni]

Gyros of course is simply a calque from döner (which means "turning" in Turkish - think gyroscope in English), being invented in slightly different form in Bursa (western Anatolia) in the 19th century. (And shawarma is an Arab pronunciation of çevirme, Turkish for "rotating/spinning")

[cmling]

croissant = kwa-sawn(t)

Let's put a touch of an "r" in there (krwa), and omit the final "t".
This, of course, is nit-picking.

[phatj]

In my experience in the US, croissant is most commonly pronounced "cruh-SAHNT", with an English "R" sound, and the "T" is definitely vocalized. And I'm OK with that - generally Americans trying to pronounce French as French people would come across sounding absurd. (Myself definitely included - I was once pretty good at French but now I'm better at nitpicking others' pronunciation than at speaking it myself. )

[Kim Shook]

peh-cahn: what we make pies from

pee-can: what long haul truckers use

Edited by Kim Shook, 12 December 2011 - 09:02 PM.

[slkinsey]

croissant = kwa-sawn(t)

Let's put a touch of an "r" in there (krwa), and omit the final "t".
This, of course, is nit-picking.

In my experience in the US, croissant is most commonly pronounced "cruh-SAHNT", with an English "R" sound, and the "T" is definitely vocalized.

What phatj said. I wasn't writing how it should be said, just how it is said. And in the grand scheme of things, leaving in the T and using an English R or largely leaving out the R are pretty low on the list of proper pronunciation faults around here. Hey, I'm still fighting the (losing) battle to get people to stop referring to a single Italian-style pressed sandwich as a "panini."

[emannths]

Hey, I'm still fighting the (losing) battle to get people to stop referring to a single Italian-style pressed sandwich as a "panini."

You'll sooner get people to stop making every restaurant name possessive (Panini Grill --> "Panini's") than you'll get them to get the Italian singular/plural thing right. As my college linguistics professor said, "accidents happen to vowels."

[cmling]

I think making an effort is always a good thing.

[Fernwood]

You'll sooner get people to stop making every restaurant name possessive (Panini Grill --> "Panini's")....

PET PEEVE!

And (in an effort to stay on-topic) we could count that as a mispronunciation, though I think it is really some other kind of cognitive error.
Fern

[David A. Goldfarb]

Likewise, "pierogi" (pyeh-ROH-ghee) is already the plural form for the Polish dumplings (not "pierogies"), and if you ever have occasion to talk about one of them, the singular is "pieróg" (PYEH-roog).

Edited by David A. Goldfarb, 14 December 2011 - 04:19 AM.

[cmling]

Right, and the same goes for blini/blin.

[conifer]

I run a mojito bar in Barcelona and occasionally get Italians coming in and asking for "due mojiti".

[Panaderia Canadiense]

The ones that get me are "squids", "shrimps" and "octopi" - the proper plurals are squid, shrimp, and octopusses or octopodes.

[Mjx]

A lot of mispronunciations of Italian words bug me, but one of the ones most spectacularly butchered in Denmark is 'espresso', for which you generally hear ex-PRA-so. Ouch.

[Karri]

Next time you hear someone say BAY-zill give them a slap for me please. I'm currently living and working in Spain and what tourists often misinterpret is the interchangeable nature of the hard b and v sound. Based on region and accent. So as an example I was covering a co-workers shift at the omelette station at breakfast and a german man came and ordered a tortilla con jabòn. Now I don't know how and why but jamòn is ham and jabòn is soap. So I smiled my inner smile and prepared him a HAM omelette.

[Karri]

Ah please, a headache of yesteryear. Moët et Chandon. Especially the first name. Traditional pronounciation rules would have it the same as Citroën. As an extended vowel with a hint of nasal. But I've personally heard sommeliers some French, pronounce it from Mo-ei, like the Japanese bodypillow relationship to Müt as in German umlaut. And the one I am currently using Möet.

[Hassouni]

Next time you hear someone say BAY-zill give them a slap for me please.

Done! I can't stand it either.

Everyone should just think Fawlty Towers...

[cmling]

This sounds very interesting, but I confess I can't figure it out.

[IndyRob]

... - generally Americans trying to pronounce French as French people would come across sounding absurd....

Indeed. While reading some earlier posts I was thinking that I'd never say frahnce when referring to France in a conversation in English.

And of course, regional variations become local dogma. New Orleans is pronounced N'awlins, and Louisville is pronounced Loowahvul (after Le Roi Loowah, I presume).

And I take care never to miss an opportunity to mispronounce crudite. "Oooh, look...crud-ites!"

[Snadra]

A lot of mispronunciations of Italian words bug me, but one of the ones most spectacularly butchered in Denmark is 'espresso', for which you generally hear ex-PRA-so. Ouch.

But you do have to give kudos to any speakers of a language with phrases like 'rødgrød med fløde'. Surely that gets them a pass on Italian pronunciations! (I haven't spoken Danish in over 20 years but I can still say that one well enough to please a Dane!)

My husband used to say "broh-cole-lie" until my death stares began to shorten his lifespan.

[phatj]

I was under the impression that "bay-sil" was the accepted American pronunciation. I've never heard it with the short "a" sound (as in "cat") except as a man's name, and then only as spoken by English people (as in Fawlty Towers).

[gfweb]

How do you say "Bret Favre"? Unless you pronounce it "Fav-ruh" you are incorrect in France.

But you say" this isn't France and he and everyone else says Farv" .

And I say exactly.

[MikeHartnett]

New Orleans is pronounced N'awlins

Certainly not by people who live here.

[demiglace]

Is it Mar-cella Hazan or Mar-chella ?

[ambra]

Is it Mar-cella Hazan or Mar-chella ?

Depends on where she is from. ;)

In Italy, it'd be Mar-chella for sure.