148 replies to this topic

[andiesenji]

It's too late to edit my previous post so I should note here that I was referring to what I consider regular "southern pot beans, aka: boiled beans"

With other varieties of beans, black beans, various brown and speckled beans, black or yellow eye beans (often called "peas"), flagolets, and etc., I add different meats and vegetables that are essential for those types of ethnic dishes.

I have several bean cookbooks, including Heirloom Beans from RG.

However I also have the Bean Bible, Magic Beans, Easy Beans and More Easy Beans, Full of Beans and the Complete Bean Cookbook and some that are completely vegetarian. Also some grain and bean cookbooks that work for me.

However, there are no so many good bean dish recipes on the web that it really isn't necessary to spend money on a book if $$ are short. Spend your money on good beans, wherever you find them.

[Snadra]

Andie and Jaymes, thanks so much for this. I have limited access to a smaller variety of beans, but I can get cannellini, kidney, borlotti, lima and black eye beans from the grocery store, and pinto and black beans from online sources. When I first made pinto beans from dried beans both my husband and I couldn't stop just taking beams from the pot, they were that good. I still haven't made refriitos from them that I'm quite happy with though. Maybe overly influenced by the canned stuff...

Andie, I've made a bit of cornbread here using polenta - i soak the polenta in buttermilk overnight, and I've been whipping the egg whites to get a lighter texture, which is lovely for breakfast, but wouldn't be good with something more solid. And when I looked up 'southern style cornbread' recipes most of them came up with sugar and cheese and sour cream and the rest - I know just enough about southern food to know that can't be quite right. I'm thrilled to have a 'proper' recipe that i can make using locally available products.

For both of you (and anyone else) are there flavoung combinations you would recommend with particular beans? Also, Jaymes, I take it you put the flavouring in as the beans cook, while Andie adds it towards the end? I'm almost wishing it was cold enough for me to try this now. Almost.

[Dakki]

How are you making the refried beans? I've seen some pretty screwed-up recipes online and in English-language cookbooks.

This might be something for a new topic, though.

[Jaymes]

Also, Jaymes, I take it you put the flavouring in as the beans cook, while Andie adds it towards the end?

I definitely would not say that.

For me, anyway, cooking up a big pot of beans is such a "by the seat of your pants" sort of endeavor that it's impossible to come up with any kind of definitive routine recipe/method. I do usually add a clove or two of garlic with the initial water, but often nothing else until the beans are tender, and sometimes not even then. I have a clay bean pot (olla) that I got in Mexico, and I'll put in the beans and water and put that pot on a low fire and add nothing else to it at all until it's done, when I sprinkle in a little salt, and then serve the beans in individual bowls with some fresh pico de gallo or salsa cruda made with onions, chiles, cilantro and tomatoes on the side to garnish.

But sometimes I will saute onions, celery, jalapenos with a little pork fat or bacon or something and some cumin or cilantro or other herb in the bottom of my big stew pot and then add the liquid and the beans. I don't usually add salt until the beans are tender, but sometimes I cook them in chicken broth, which definitely has salt. I will say that no matter what, I don't ever add acid (like tomatoes) until the beans are tender. I heard once, long ago, that adding acid will cause the beans to never soften, although I've heard others dispute that, so who knows.

I will say that what seems in my view to be the number-one most-popular bean dish in Texas is Mexican/Cowboy-style pot beans, and the main way to cook them is called Charro Beans, or Borracho Beans (you can google either term for recipes). They're usually made with pintos or Peruana or Flor de Mayo or Flor de Junio, but you can make them with basically anything. There are as many recipes as there are bean cooks, but for the most part, you cook the beans in chicken broth or water with a clove or two of garlic, until tender. "Borracho" means "drunk" in Spanish, so this denotes the addition of beer to the cooking liquid at some point. Then, after the beans are well-cooked and tender, you fry up the "seasonings," which usually include lard, some sort of chiles, onions, more garlic, cilantro, perhaps bacon or salt pork, and tomatoes. After the seasonings are fried, you add them to your pot of tender beans and simmer another half-hour or so. These soupy beans are always meant to be eaten with a spoon, in order to slurp up the juices. They are never served in a heap on your plate in the manner of sweet baked-baked beans. They are either served in bowls (at home and in many restaurants), or in paper cups or something similar (at picnics, etc.) and a spoon. The mistake many folks unfamiliar with this type of bean make is to drain them, and then try to eat them with a fork. So much of the flavor is in the juice, and it's lost if you don't slurp it up with the beans.

Fascinating subject. Never-ending possibilities.

Edited by Jaymes, 02 December 2011 - 03:17 PM.

[andiesenji]

Andie and Jaymes, thanks so much for this. I have limited access to a smaller variety of beans, but I can get cannellini, kidney, borlotti, lima and black eye beans from the grocery store, and pinto and black beans from online sources. When I first made pinto beans from dried beans both my husband and I couldn't stop just taking beams from the pot, they were that good. I still haven't made refriitos from them that I'm quite happy with though. Maybe overly influenced by the canned stuff...

Andie, I've made a bit of cornbread here using polenta - i soak the polenta in buttermilk overnight, and I've been whipping the egg whites to get a lighter texture, which is lovely for breakfast, but wouldn't be good with something more solid. And when I looked up 'southern style cornbread' recipes most of them came up with sugar and cheese and sour cream and the rest - I know just enough about southern food to know that can't be quite right. I'm thrilled to have a 'proper' recipe that i can make using locally available products.

For both of you (and anyone else) are there flavoung combinations you would recommend with particular beans? Also, Jaymes, I take it you put the flavouring in as the beans cook, while Andie adds it towards the end? I'm almost wishing it was cold enough for me to try this now. Almost.

Real southern cornbread is just cornmeal, salt, baking soda, eggs and buttermilk. No wheat flour, no sugar.

You can add a tablespoon or so of wheat flour but I seldom do. The first photo on my blog page is of the finished product just out of the oven. The last photo at the bottom of the page shows a wedge split and buttered.

In certain areas of the south "hot water cornbread" is favored but it is fried, not baked and to my taste is not what I consider real cornbread. Unless it is done exactly right you have corn rocks as an end result.

Edited by andiesenji, 02 December 2011 - 03:07 PM.

[Snadra]

There's a whole lot of deliciousness going on here. Jaymes I love the idea of plain beans with accompaniments - I imagine this is especially good with really good beans. I'm getting a better sense of what a 'pot of beans' means to some people now!

Andie, thanks for the cornbread tips. I had completely forgotten about that post!

[Jaymes]

Well, as the kids say, OMG. I can't believe that when discussing the most-popular pot beans of Texas, I forgot about "Ranch Style."

If you're invited to the home of a Texan for Mexican food, or barbecue brisket, sausage, ribs, chicken, etc., you will indeed get a bowl of cowboy/Mexican-style charro/borracho/olla beans.

But if you're invited for steak, the chances are excellent that you'll be offered some "ranch style" beans to nestle up to your T-bone, alongside your baked potato with all the fixin's.

It's been my experience that, rather than in a separate individual bowl like charro/borracho beans, ranch-style beans are most-often served drained somewhat, and in a juicy spreading pile on your plate. The idea is that you cut yourself a piece of steak and you waller it in the ranch-style chili-gravy juices a bit before popping it into your mouth.

Every Texan is familiar with the iconic black "Ranch Style Beans" can. It's got a grinning man logo on the top right-hand side of the label, along with the words "Appetite Pleasin.'" But when I first encountered them, back in 1969, they said, "Husband Pleasin'" and they sure were. Which was why I had some.

I was living in the Philippines, where I had just met and married my native-Texan husband. Of course, the subject of foods that we missed from home often came up in our conversations. For my husband, it was Ranch Style Beans and Pearl Beer. So I had his mother send me a six-pack of each. That night, before he got home, I opened the beans and poured them into the saucepan to simmer. I took the tell-tale empty cans out to the big garbage bin in the garage to hide them, and waited for him to come home.

I don't mind telling you that I wasn't much of a cook in those days so, when hubby came in from work, he was rarely greeted with enticing aromas wafting about our small home. Most often, he was greeted with me, dressed and ready to go out to dinner somewhere. So when I told him that I had found a recipe for Texas Ranch Style Beans and had worked on them all day, there was no way he was buying it. He dumped out the kitchen garbage can and, upon finding nothing, headed for the big bin. "Ah HA," I heard him holler through the open door to the garage. "I knew it. Here they are!"

I've made them from scratch many, many times since that first experience so long ago. For those of you unfamiliar with Ranch Beans, they're actually very reminiscent of chili, with basically the same flavor profile. If you are someone that thinks of chili as a savory, spicy beef dish that has some beans added, think of Texas Ranch Beans as a savory, spicy bean dish that has some beef added.

Most of the Ranch Beans recipes call for pintos, but you can make them with red beans, chili beans, kidney beans, etc.

You cook them in beef broth. I always add a little beef as well - stewed chopped chuck, or BBQ brisket deckle, or browned hamburger meat.

This is yet another dish for which I don't have a formal recipe, but you can find many of them on the web if you google "ranch beans" or "ranch style beans."

The Homesick Texan does a pretty good job of explaining about these beans on her blog, although I note she doesn't add any beef to hers. Honestly, she should fry up about 3/4 lb or so of good-quality hamburger meat, and maybe a handful of chorizo or other bulk sausage, and try adding that.

I'll bet she'd never go back:

The Homesick Texan Ranch Style Beans

I got rid of the husband a few years ago, but I cook up pots of these wonderful homemade Ranch Beans quite often.

I've heard he's still eating his out of a can.

Edited by Jaymes, 02 December 2011 - 05:56 PM.

[Norm Matthews]

Not wanting to get off topic or start an argument, but my mom was a Southerner from the git go and grew up poor to boot. Her family always made cornbread with white flour added. When I think of corn bread without any flour, I think of Johnny cake which originated in New England, not the south.

[andiesenji]

Not wanting to get off topic or start an argument, but my mom was a Southerner from the git go and grew up poor to boot. Her family always made cornbread with white flour added. When I think of corn bread without any flour, I think of Johnny cake which originated in New England, not the south.

I don't doubt it, Norm.
Some people in the south do add a bit of flour and a few people do make the cake-like stuff that is like Marie Callendar's but where I grew up it was made without flour. White flour was reserved for biscuits, dumplings, cakes, flapjacks and etc.

My grandfather owned a grist mill and farmers from all around the area brought their corn to be ground.
I ate at the homes of neighboring farmers and at church socials &etc., and no one I knew made cornbread with flour or sugar. (My dad's family has been in Kentucky since the late 1700s, before it became a state, emigrating there from North Carolina and Virginia.)

I don't think Johnny cake originated in New England (Rhode Island in particular where it is very popular), there is a history of it, then called Journey cake, in South Carolina in 1739 and it is one of the recipes in The Carolina Housewife in 1851. A note about that here.
The corn dish that certainly did originate in the New England area was Indian Pudding, sweetened with maple syrup.

I think it is interesting to speculate about how foods migrated from colony to colony during our early history.

It's also interesting that all over this continent the native peoples raised beans, corn and squash together, the "three sisters" plants and in combination these provide a complete amino acid chain as a fairly good substitute for meat proteins.

Edited by andiesenji, 02 December 2011 - 06:54 PM.

[cathyeats]

Sorry I'm getting in on this discussion so late. I am pretty bean obsessed myself. I sometimes wonder if I should have made my blog a bean-only blog!

Agree on the Good Mother Stallards, they are the best. But the big revelation for me was Rancho Gordo's Christmas Lima beans. I put off buying them for so long because of the name – I really dislike lima beans. But it turns out these have nothing in common with regular old lima beans. First, they are gigantic. And they have a really unique flavor and texture, very earthy. I wasn't sure what to do with them but someone from Rancho Gordo said they were really good with mushrooms. So I made up a simple bean and mushroom stew and it blew me away. I also made the best baked beans with their Goat's Eye beans.

[EatNopales]

Also, Jaymes, I take it you put the flavouring in as the beans cook, while Andie adds it towards the end?

I definitely would not say that.

For me, anyway, cooking up a big pot of beans is such a "by the seat of your pants" sort of endeavor that it's impossible to come up with any kind of definitive routine recipe/method. I do usually add a clove or two of garlic with the initial water, but often nothing else until the beans are tender, and sometimes not even then. I have a clay bean pot (olla) that I got in Mexico, and I'll put in the beans and water and put that pot on a low fire and add nothing else to it at all until it's done, when I sprinkle in a little salt, and then serve the beans in individual bowls with some fresh pico de gallo or salsa cruda made with onions, chiles, cilantro and tomatoes on the side to garnish.

But sometimes I will saute onions, celery, jalapenos with a little pork fat or bacon or something and some cumin or cilantro or other herb in the bottom of my big stew pot and then add the liquid and the beans. I don't usually add salt until the beans are tender, but sometimes I cook them in chicken broth, which definitely has salt. I will say that no matter what, I don't ever add acid (like tomatoes) until the beans are tender. I heard once, long ago, that adding acid will cause the beans to never soften, although I've heard others dispute that, so who knows.

I will say that what seems in my view to be the number-one most-popular bean dish in Texas is Mexican/Cowboy-style pot beans, and the main way to cook them is called Charro Beans, or Borracho Beans (you can google either term for recipes). They're usually made with pintos or Peruana or Flor de Mayo or Flor de Junio, but you can make them with basically anything. There are as many recipes as there are bean cooks, but for the most part, you cook the beans in chicken broth or water with a clove or two of garlic, until tender. "Borracho" means "drunk" in Spanish, so this denotes the addition of beer to the cooking liquid at some point. Then, after the beans are well-cooked and tender, you fry up the "seasonings," which usually include lard, some sort of chiles, onions, more garlic, cilantro, perhaps bacon or salt pork, and tomatoes. After the seasonings are fried, you add them to your pot of tender beans and simmer another half-hour or so. These soupy beans are always meant to be eaten with a spoon, in order to slurp up the juices. They are never served in a heap on your plate in the manner of sweet baked-baked beans. They are either served in bowls (at home and in many restaurants), or in paper cups or something similar (at picnics, etc.) and a spoon. The mistake many folks unfamiliar with this type of bean make is to drain them, and then try to eat them with a fork. So much of the flavor is in the juice, and it's lost if you don't slurp it up with the beans.

Fascinating subject. Never-ending possibilities.

Just wanted to point out that in Mexico there is distinction between Frijoles Borrachos & Frijoles Charros... Charros often (usually) have Chorizo wheras the Borrachos don't & the Charros don't typically have Beer while the Borrachos do... and also some regional recipes call for Tequila, Sotol, Pulque, Tepache or Tejuino (with secondary fermentation) instead of Beer.

And then of course there is the closely related Frijoles Maneados... which can best be thought of as the "Risotto" of pot beans... where the beans are cooked low & slow with additional broth / seasoned water until the beans distingrate into a cloudy, velvety texture on their own / not mechanically... there is also the familiar garlic, chorizo & bacon that finds there way into the dish & then finished off with Asadero melting cheese that is allowed to disintegrate into the body.

Never ending possibilities indeed.

[EatNopales]

Sorry I'm getting in on this discussion so late. I am pretty bean obsessed myself. I sometimes wonder if I should have made my blog a bean-only blog!

Agree on the Good Mother Stallards, they are the best. But the big revelation for me was Rancho Gordo's Christmas Lima beans. I put off buying them for so long because of the name – I really dislike lima beans. But it turns out these have nothing in common with regular old lima beans. First, they are gigantic. And they have a really unique flavor and texture, very earthy. I wasn't sure what to do with them but someone from Rancho Gordo said they were really good with mushrooms. So I made up a simple bean and mushroom stew and it blew me away. I also made the best baked beans with their Goat's Eye beans.

Lima beans are pretty fantastic.. in their dried form they have a very interesting muskiness to them that evoked truffle oil, but have suffered character assassination at the hands of commodity frozen vegetable mixes. Nopales in pureed Lima Bean soup is a classic of Mexico State.. and would convince any doubters with a single bite.

BTW... fresh green Lima Beans are fantastic as well...

Edited by EatNopales, 03 December 2011 - 12:29 AM.

[Norm Matthews]

Not wanting to get off topic or start an argument, but my mom was a Southerner from the git go and grew up poor to boot. Her family always made cornbread with white flour added. When I think of corn bread without any flour, I think of Johnny cake which originated in New England, not the south.

I don't doubt it, Norm.
Some people in the south do add a bit of flour and a few people do make the cake-like stuff that is like Marie Callendar's but where I grew up it was made without flour. White flour was reserved for biscuits, dumplings, cakes, flapjacks and etc.

My grandfather owned a grist mill and farmers from all around the area brought their corn to be ground.
I ate at the homes of neighboring farmers and at church socials &etc., and no one I knew made cornbread with flour or sugar. (My dad's family has been in Kentucky since the late 1700s, before it became a state, emigrating there from North Carolina and Virginia.)

I don't think Johnny cake originated in New England (Rhode Island in particular where it is very popular), there is a history of it, then called Journey cake, in South Carolina in 1739 and it is one of the recipes in The Carolina Housewife in 1851. A note about that here.
The corn dish that certainly did originate in the New England area was Indian Pudding, sweetened with maple syrup.

I think it is interesting to speculate about how foods migrated from colony to colony during our early history.

It's also interesting that all over this continent the native peoples raised beans, corn and squash together, the "three sisters" plants and in combination these provide a complete amino acid chain as a fairly good substitute for meat proteins.

I don't doubt anything you say. As I said before, I don't want to argue or open a debate, especially about a subject that is ancillary to the main topic but my maternal great grandfather and grandfather were both dirt poor Southern farmers. My grandfather lost the farm during the 30's and the family became itinerate cotton pickers. I have eaten cornbread in homes in Missouri, Arkansas and Mississippi and never had it except as a quick bread with wheat flour and baking powder/soda added, but no sugar usually. I just don't feel that it is entirely accurate to say "Real southern cornbread is just cornmeal, salt, baking soda, eggs and buttermilk. No wheat flour, no sugar."

[andiesenji]

Not arguing, not debating, Norm. There are indeed variations all over the south and even among neighborhoods and even families. Some time ago I compiled several pages of links to web sites with "Real Southern Cornbread" in their titles. The recipes are all over the map from plain cornmeal to a little flour to equal flour. They are all interesting and fun to try. Some agree with my preference, some do not, but they are all "authentic" for the people who prepare them.

Perhaps the gal who wrote this has the best idea.

Today I have a batch of Mark beans soaking and will partially cook them later today in preparation for making cassoulet from Saveur tomorrow. I have everything for the recipe except the confit duck legs but as they are optional anyway, I'm omitting them.
The recipe calls for great northern beans but I want to see how it works with the Mark beans.
They are pretty.



I'm partially cooking the beans ahead of time because on one occasion in the past I made cassoulet with beans that I had simply soaked, as instructed in the recipe and had marbles in my finished dish. Not at all nice. Taking no chances now.

Edited by andiesenji, 03 December 2011 - 12:51 PM.

[patrickamory]

This thread just made me register at Rancho Gordo and order a pound of pinto beans and a pound of Good Mother Stollard beans.

I shall report on results. (I usually dried Goyas from the local supermarket here in NYC.)

[Katie Meadow]

Mmm, 'snakes in a pot! Just curious, Andie, have you cooked the Rattlesnakes you got recently from Purcell? I made my first batch the other day and think they are really great. Better even than I remembered.

And I received my latest order from RG with beans I've never had before: Mayacobas, Baby Limas and Bolitas. It will be interesting to see how the Bolitas fare in a straight up Mexican preparation, where I would otherwise use a Pinto or, nowadays, Rattlers. Also included were my two oreganos, and I'm planning to use the Indio in my Bolita beans. That is if I don't smoke it all first. Wow, talk about a sensation when you first open the jar. It's positively....ceremonial.

About cornbread. To me, saying there is an authentic cornbread is rather like saying there is an authentic white bread. My latest twist on my own cornbread recipe is to sub a small amount of buckwheat for either the corn meal or the white flour. Yes, I do use some AP white flour in my corn bread.

Edited by Katie Meadow, 03 December 2011 - 08:22 PM.

[Jaymes]

Also included were my two oreganos, and I'm planning to use the Indio in my Bolita beans. That is if I don't smoke it all first. Wow, talk about a sensation when you first open the jar. It's positively....ceremonial.

"Ceremonial"! Perfect description. It is, isn't it?

[EatNopales]

Mmm, 'snakes in a pot! Just curious, Andie, have you cooked the Rattlesnakes you got recently from Purcell? I made my first batch the other day and think they are really great. Better even than I remembered.

And I received my latest order from RG with beans I've never had before: Mayacobas, Baby Limas and Bolitas. It will be interesting to see how the Bolitas fare in a straight up Mexican preparation, where I would otherwise use a Pinto or, nowadays, Rattlers. Also included were my two oreganos, and I'm planning to use the Indio in my Bolita beans. That is if I don't smoke it all first. Wow, talk about a sensation when you first open the jar. It's positively....ceremonial.

About cornbread. To me, saying there is an authentic cornbread is rather like saying there is an authentic white bread. My latest twist on my own cornbread recipe is to sub a small amount of buckwheat for either the corn meal or the white flour. Yes, I do use some AP white flour in my corn bread.

The Bolitas are great in Sopa Tarasca (Tomato - Bean Soup) & Dulce de Frijol (Sippable Bean Pudding)

[andiesenji]

Mmm, 'snakes in a pot! Just curious, Andie, have you cooked the Rattlesnakes you got recently from Purcell? I made my first batch the other day and think they are really great. Better even than I remembered.

And I received my latest order from RG with beans I've never had before: Mayacobas, Baby Limas and Bolitas. It will be interesting to see how the Bolitas fare in a straight up Mexican preparation, where I would otherwise use a Pinto or, nowadays, Rattlers. Also included were my two oreganos, and I'm planning to use the Indio in my Bolita beans. That is if I don't smoke it all first. Wow, talk about a sensation when you first open the jar. It's positively....ceremonial.

About cornbread. To me, saying there is an authentic cornbread is rather like saying there is an authentic white bread. My latest twist on my own cornbread recipe is to sub a small amount of buckwheat for either the corn meal or the white flour. Yes, I do use some AP white flour in my corn bread.

I haven't yet cooked the rattlesnake beans. I am taking them along when I visit my daughter for Christmas and am planning on making my adapted version of Moors and Christians in which I don't use white rice, I use the extremely flavorful Bhutan red rice so I am adding another color to the black and white beans.
This dish really highlights the beans and these are the perfect ones to use in this dish.

[Katie Meadow]

EatNopales you've given me a good idea. Never had Sopa Tarasca, but I looked up some recipes and it sounds yummy. One of my dream trips is to go to Patzcuaro for Day of the Dead. Since I have some red chile paste in the freezer that I made with anchos and guajillos and plenty of chicken broth in there as well, I'm going to make my own deconstructed version of Sopa Tarasca. By deconstructed I just mean I prefer to leave the beans whole rather than blending them up, but I will use the traditional tomato, with fried tortilla strips and some queso fresco for garnish.

[Jaymes]

EatNopales you've given me a good idea. Never had Sopa Tarasca, but I looked up some recipes and it sounds yummy. One of my dream trips is to go to Patzcuaro for Day of the Dead. Since I have some red chile paste in the freezer that I made with anchos and guajillos and plenty of chicken broth in there as well, I'm going to make my own deconstructed version of Sopa Tarasca. By deconstructed I just mean I prefer to leave the beans whole rather than blending them up, but I will use the traditional tomato, with fried tortilla strips and some queso fresco for garnish.

A couple of years ago, I was lucky enough to get to spend about 6 weeks in Michoacan - Morelia, to be exact. I went to one of those immersion language schools where you stay with a local family. I had told them that I would like to stay with a family that was interested in cooking. They said that the woman that taught their cooking classes, Chila, actually worked in the home of a family that hosted students, and I could stay with them. So I did.

Chila was a Purépecha Indian woman from a village not far from Patzcuaro. She and I hit it off immediately, and I spent many hours in the kitchen with her, watching her cook, and listening to her stories about her village.

As is typical in Mexico, the family had their big meal (comida) around 2 in the afternoon. This meal always included a soup and Sopa Tarasca was the favorite of the patriarch, "El Señor," Don Pepe, so they had it at least once a week. I told her that I had had it at the restaurant in Patzcuaro where it was purportedly invented, and asked her if she knew whether or not her version was prepared anything like the original recipe. She responded that she had no idea, as she had never eaten at that restaurant and wasn't familiar with the "original recipe," but that hers was basically identical to the way everyone else in her village made it, for whatever that was worth.

Here are the notes I made at the time (and posted on another cooking board):

Sopa Tarasca

(Before we get into this, I have to tell you that I just watched Chila make it and took notes. I haven´t done it myself and haven´t worked out any of the proportions and Chila doesn´t measure, so basically, I´m just guessing. Also I should add that in another thread, Rancho mentioned "two schools of thought regarding beans." I am certain Chila has not traveled far, nor read a lot of cookbooks, if any. She does make this soup with beans and I asked her if she knew of anyone that made it without beans. She said she didn´t and that everyone in her village makes it basically this way. Obviously other folks do make it without beans, so her recipe is clearly just one version and not some sort of definitive method.)

I had told my profesor that Chila was going to teach me to make Sopa Tarasca and he told me to have her write a list of things she´d need and for our lesson on Friday, we´d go to the market and buy everything. Which we did. At an absolutely wonderful market called San Jose. The recipe calls for chiles negros. These are dried black chiles. I guess I´m now in the group that I´ve called "chile ponderers" - folks that discuss this chile and that and try to figure out the different names that they´re called in different parts of the world. I´ve asked several times if there is another name for these chiles before they´re dried, but everybody just says that they´re chiles negros and I have no clue if I´m ever going to be able to find them in the US. Also, we bought "laurel" which I figured was bay leaves and they obviously are related, but these seem smaller and softer. (A note about the chiles; I've since been told they're called 'ancho' in the US.)

Back to the soup: First, she cooked up a big pot of Flor de Mayo beans. She did it in a fairly common way - picked them over for stones, etc., then washed them, then cooked them, covered in a pressure cooker. She added no salt or anything else. I told her I might not be able to find Flor de Mayo beans in the US and she said you could use any beans you like and that a lot of her friends just use pintos.

When they were done, she took a ladle and scooped out I´d say about two cups worth, more or less, drained and set them aside. They just about filled what my family calls a cereal or soup bowl. Then she put about 3 T of oil in a skillet and sliced about half of a med-sized white onion. She took one of the chiles, removed the stem and seeds, and tore it into some small pieces. She fried the onion and chile pieces on pretty high heat until the onion was beginning to brown. Then she dumped the drained bowl of beans into a blender and added the fried onion and chile. She looked at me and said, "and all the oil" and smiled as if to say, "we don´t need no stinking diet." She added what I´d guess was 1-2 cups of water. She explained to me that she used to use a good chicken broth and still does if she has it, but didn´t have it, so we would add "Suiza" later. I had no clue what she was talking about. Suiza means Swiss, of course, but exactly what Swiss thing we were going to be putting in was a mystery until she pulled out a great big jar of Knorr's (isn´t it? - don´t want to look it up) powdered chicken bouillon. So, after adding the water, the whole thing came to about 2/3rd up the side of the blender. She processed it all until it was smooth. Then she poured it into an average-sized skillet and turned up the heat to let it boil.

She obviously used the skillet to measure, because it was close to full but not quite. So she added a few ladles of the broth from the bean pot (carefully straining it, telling me that it was important that the texture of the soup be smooth) until the liquid in the skillet was close to overflowing. Then she put in a small handful of cilantro, and at least six or seven laurel leaves, and the powdered "Swiss" chicken bouillon to taste. She told me not to add salt, but instead to add the bouillon "a gusto" - to taste.

While the soup was simmering, she took about 8 or 9 corn tortillas (that she had bought this morning from the tortillera on the corner) and cut them into small squares, about 3/4 inch each. She put a lot of oil into a skillet and fried them up to a nice golden color and then, after draining them on paper towels, put them into a small bowl and set them on the table. (She told me she had made more than we needed because we´re having chilaquiles for breakfast tomorrow morning.) She calls them "tostadaditas." At her direction, I bought some Queso Oaxaca at the market and she shredded it and set it aside. She took four or five of the chiles negros (and I doubt I´m spelling that correctly) and removed the stems and then rolled each chile between her hands to soften them before putting them on the comal to toast. After they were toasted, she crumbled them into small bits and put them into a small bowl that also went on the table.

So, it was time to eat.

Into each individual soup bowl she put a handful of the shredded cheese, and then ladled the hot soup over. The bowls with the tostaditas were passed, and we each put some into the soup, and then came the bowl with the crumbled bits of toasted chile negro, which we sprinkled onto our soup. And then, a bowl of sour cream, which we drizzled over all.

I hope I´ve gotten this all correct, as this soup was so very, very good, I want to do it justice. After I get home, I´ll make it a time or two to double-check the measurements, but until then, hope those of you that are interested can get started giving it a go!

ETA: Since I originally posted this, back when I first got home, I've made the soup quite a number of times. I'm still kind of "guessing" as to the amounts of the ingredients used, but it's turned out great every time.

Edited by Jaymes, 05 December 2011 - 10:23 AM.

[EatNopales]

EatNopales you've given me a good idea. Never had Sopa Tarasca, but I looked up some recipes and it sounds yummy. One of my dream trips is to go to Patzcuaro for Day of the Dead. Since I have some red chile paste in the freezer that I made with anchos and guajillos and plenty of chicken broth in there as well, I'm going to make my own deconstructed version of Sopa Tarasca. By deconstructed I just mean I prefer to leave the beans whole rather than blending them up, but I will use the traditional tomato, with fried tortilla strips and some queso fresco for garnish.

A couple of years ago, I was lucky enough to get to spend about 6 weeks in Michoacan - Morelia, to be exact. I went to one of those immersion language schools where you stay with a local family. I had told them that I would like to stay with a family that was interested in cooking. They said that the woman that taught their cooking classes, Chila, actually worked in the home of a family that hosted students, and I could stay with them. So I did.

Chila was a Purépecha Indian woman from a village not far from Patzcuaro. She and I hit it off immediately, and I spent many hours in the kitchen with her, watching her cook, and listening to her stories about her village.

As is typical in Mexico, the family had their big meal (comida) around 2 in the afternoon. This meal always included a soup and Sopa Tarasca was the favorite of the patriarch, "El Señor," Don Pepe, so they had it at least once a week. I told her that I had had it at the restaurant in Patzcuaro where it was purportedly invented, and asked her if she knew whether or not her version was prepared anything like the original recipe. She responded that she had no idea, as she had never eaten at that restaurant and wasn't familiar with the "original recipe," but that hers was basically identical to the way everyone else in her village made it, for whatever that was worth.

Here are the notes I made at the time (and posted on another cooking board):

Sopa Tarasca

(Before we get into this, I have to tell you that I just watched Chila make it and took notes. I haven´t done it myself and haven´t worked out any of the proportions and Chila doesn´t measure, so basically, I´m just guessing. Also I should add that in another thread, Rancho mentioned "two schools of thought regarding beans." I am certain Chila has not traveled far, nor read a lot of cookbooks, if any. She does make this soup with beans and I asked her if she knew of anyone that made it without beans. She said she didn´t and that everyone in her village makes it basically this way. Obviously other folks do make it without beans, so her recipe is clearly just one version and not some sort of definitive method.)

I had told my profesor that Chila was going to teach me to make Sopa Tarasca and he told me to have her write a list of things she´d need and for our lesson on Friday, we´d go to the market and buy everything. Which we did. At an absolutely wonderful market called San Jose. The recipe calls for chiles negros. These are dried black chiles. I guess I´m now in the group that I´ve called "chile ponderers" - folks that discuss this chile and that and try to figure out the different names that they´re called in different parts of the world. I´ve asked several times if there is another name for these chiles before they´re dried, but everybody just says that they´re chiles negros and I have no clue if I´m ever going to be able to find them in the US. Also, we bought "laurel" which I figured was bay leaves and they obviously are related, but these seem smaller and softer. (A note about the chiles; I've since been told they're called 'ancho' in the US.)

Back to the soup: First, she cooked up a big pot of Flor de Mayo beans. She did it in a fairly common way - picked them over for stones, etc., then washed them, then cooked them, covered in a pressure cooker. She added no salt or anything else. I told her I might not be able to find Flor de Mayo beans in the US and she said you could use any beans you like and that a lot of her friends just use pintos.

When they were done, she took a ladle and scooped out I´d say about two cups worth, more or less, drained and set them aside. They just about filled what my family calls a cereal or soup bowl. Then she put about 3 T of oil in a skillet and sliced about half of a med-sized white onion. She took one of the chiles, removed the stem and seeds, and tore it into some small pieces. She fried the onion and chile pieces on pretty high heat until the onion was beginning to brown. Then she dumped the drained bowl of beans into a blender and added the fried onion and chile. She looked at me and said, "and all the oil" and smiled as if to say, "we don´t need no stinking diet." She added what I´d guess was 1-2 cups of water. She explained to me that she used to use a good chicken broth and still does if she has it, but didn´t have it, so we would add "Suiza" later. I had no clue what she was talking about. Suiza means Swiss, of course, but exactly what Swiss thing we were going to be putting in was a mystery until she pulled out a great big jar of Knorr's (isn´t it? - don´t want to look it up) powdered chicken bouillon. So, after adding the water, the whole thing came to about 2/3rd up the side of the blender. She processed it all until it was smooth. Then she poured it into an average-sized skillet and turned up the heat to let it boil.

She obviously used the skillet to measure, because it was close to full but not quite. So she added a few ladles of the broth from the bean pot (carefully straining it, telling me that it was important that the texture of the soup be smooth) until the liquid in the skillet was close to overflowing. Then she put in a small handful of cilantro, and at least six or seven laurel leaves, and the powdered "Swiss" chicken bouillon to taste. She told me not to add salt, but instead to add the bouillon "a gusto" - to taste.

While the soup was simmering, she took about 8 or 9 corn tortillas (that she had bought this morning from the tortillera on the corner) and cut them into small squares, about 3/4 inch each. She put a lot of oil into a skillet and fried them up to a nice golden color and then, after draining them on paper towels, put them into a small bowl and set them on the table. (She told me she had made more than we needed because we´re having chilaquiles for breakfast tomorrow morning.) She calls them "tostadaditas." At her direction, I bought some Queso Oaxaca at the market and she shredded it and set it aside. She took four or five of the chiles negros (and I doubt I´m spelling that correctly) and removed the stems and then rolled each chile between her hands to soften them before putting them on the comal to toast. After they were toasted, she crumbled them into small bits and put them into a small bowl that also went on the table.

So, it was time to eat.

Into each individual soup bowl she put a handful of the shredded cheese, and then ladled the hot soup over. The bowls with the tostaditas were passed, and we each put some into the soup, and then came the bowl with the crumbled bits of toasted chile negro, which we sprinkled onto our soup. And then, a bowl of sour cream, which we drizzled over all.

I hope I´ve gotten this all correct, as this soup was so very, very good, I want to do it justice. After I get home, I´ll make it a time or two to double-check the measurements, but until then, hope those of you that are interested can get started giving it a go!

ETA: Since I originally posted this, back when I first got home, I've made the soup quite a number of times. I'm still kind of "guessing" as to the amounts of the ingredients used, but it's turned out great every time.

On the Sopa Tarasca controversies.... Sopa Tarasca evolved as a restaurant version of a more traditional Bean & Tomato Atapakua (Atapakuas are the Purepecha name for Light Moles that are primarily thickened with Vegetables and/or Legumes as opposed Nuts, Seeds, Masa and/or Chiles)....


I am possibly going into the restaurant business in the next 3 months & have been working on recipe development etc.... my version of "Sopa Tarasca" is rooted in the pre-hispanic version (because I like, it fits my story & is Vegan friendly)... I am using RG's Bolita beans (cooked in Clay), Fresh Tomatoes, Onions & Garlic, Salt... no other dried chiles, cheese or cream... plus a garnish of quick fried cilantro leaves.... if you want a fulfilling, low calorie, deeply soulful, ancient dish it is hard to beat... you really don't miss anything else.

[kayb]

Real southern cornbread is just cornmeal, salt, baking soda, eggs and buttermilk. No wheat flour, no sugar.

You can add a tablespoon or so of wheat flour but I seldom do. The first photo on my blog page is of the finished product just out of the oven. The last photo at the bottom of the page shows a wedge split and buttered.

In certain areas of the south "hot water cornbread" is favored but it is fried, not baked and to my taste is not what I consider real cornbread. Unless it is done exactly right you have corn rocks as an end result.

Andie, do you not put any fat in your cornbread? Mama never made cornbread (nor do I) without a couple of tablespoons of bacon drippings. In a pinch, and without bacon drippings (the horror!) I've used vegetable oil. But always a couple of tablespoons of a fat.

[Jaymes]

I know I'm not Andie, but assuming everybody can jump in, we always put the fat, usually bacon grease, into the cast-iron skillet before we put it into the oven to heat up.

Edited by Jaymes, 05 December 2011 - 08:05 PM.

[Katie Meadow]

EatNopales, what would make the recipe something other than pre-hispanic?

And another question: I notice that most recipes for Sopa Tarasca call for adding the onion and tomatoes after the beans are cooked. Typically when I make a pot of beans, be it for red beans 'n rice or a more New Mexican style, I saute the onions and garlic, etc. first, then add the beans and then the stock, whether chicken or ham based, so the beans cook in the stock rather than in plain water. If I am using tomatoes (I usually don't) I would think to add them along with the stock, or at least early on. Does this particular Michoacan soup get its character from adding tomatoes late in the game, which I can imagine would be a fresher taste?

[andiesenji]

I know I'm not Andie, but assuming everybody can jump in, we always put the fat, usually bacon grease, into the cast-iron skillet before we put it into the oven to heat up.

That's the way it states in my instructions. If I don't have bacon drippings (a rare occurrence) I use lard, also home-rendered.

The hot fat is poured into the batter, mixed and the batter immediately poured into the hot skillet - that is how one gets the perfect crust.

[EatNopales]

EatNopales, what would make the recipe something other than pre-hispanic?

And another question: I notice that most recipes for Sopa Tarasca call for adding the onion and tomatoes after the beans are cooked. Typically when I make a pot of beans, be it for red beans 'n rice or a more New Mexican style, I saute the onions and garlic, etc. first, then add the beans and then the stock, whether chicken or ham based, so the beans cook in the stock rather than in plain water. If I am using tomatoes (I usually don't) I would think to add them along with the stock, or at least early on. Does this particular Michoacan soup get its character from adding tomatoes late in the game, which I can imagine would be a fresher taste?

Hi Katie... the addition of Cheese, Crema & Fried Tortillas are what gives it the 20th Century Restaurant food element.

Pre-Hispanic Cooking is generally much lower in fat than Hispanic cooking... Avocados & Pumpkin Seeds were the primary source of daily fats in the Mesoamerican cuisines (and its hard to eat European quantities of dietary fat because of the huge quantities of fiber that come with them).... Pre-Hispanic cooks did render oil from Pumpkin Sees & Duck Fat... but these were luxuries not part of the everyday foods.


With regards to the timing of Tomato addition... in Mexico there are always multiple ways to do some thing with their own camps insisting theirs is the right way.... it is common to make the beans simply at first... then separately blacken the tomatos, garlic & onion... puree those... fry the sauce then added the pureed beans to the sauce to simmer until the flavors integrate.... that is my preferred method it results in a deep, hard to pin savoryness... even in my Vegan version there is so much depth of flavor that most people would not even miss animal broth, cheese or crema.


Of course there is nothing wrong with broths etc., from an authenticity perspective... but in the grand scheme of constructing a pre-hispanic rooted complete meal... there is a certain balance in total fat to be achieved that sometimes makes it compelling to make some dishes in their most rustic & light incarnation.

[Country]

I have ordered beans from Rancho Gordo in the past a few times and am going to put in another large order with friends this month. They are the best beans I have ever had and light years better than beans I have had from the best high-end grocery stores in this area. The variety of beans are a treat to explore. And although I usually buy my everyday pintos from the mainline grocery stores, from them I have had okay beans, not so okay beans and miserably old not okay ones (would not soften even after 4 hours of cooking after an overnight soak!). There are dozens of people in the eG forums who can tell the same story.

If you simply don't want to spend the money on Rancho Gordo or other heritage beans, then don't.

What he said!

Okay. Okay. You guys have shamed me into placing an order with Rancho Gordo if my mate, Beedy, will go along with it. She'll have to help select what beans we want to try. And help pay for them....

Update: I talked with Beedy and I'm going to order five or six pounds of beans, and some Mexican oregano and Oregano Indio.

I need some help in deciding what to get for beans. I'm definitely going to get a pound of Pintos, so I can compare them with what I've grown, and a pound of Good Mother Stallard's, since they seem to be a favorite on this thread.

What other beans do you recommend, and what do you make with them?

[Norm Matthews]

I have already said that I really like the mayacoba beans. If you like navy beans, you will like these better, in my opinion.

[Jaymes]

Update: I talked with Beedy and I'm going to order five or six pounds of beans, and some Mexican oregano and Oregano Indio.

I need some help in deciding what to get for beans. I'm definitely going to get a pound of Pintos, so I can compare them with what I've grown, and a pound of Good Mother Stallard's, since they seem to be a favorite on this thread.

What other beans do you recommend, and what do you make with them?

We really, really loved the large white limas. He had giant white limas for a while, but hasn't had them in a long time. So I'm talking about just the "large white limas," which he has fairly often.

We also like the Christmas Limas.

They're all just so good, and of course, we're in the camp that hated those green lima beans as kids, so I can assure you that Steve's taste nothing like that.

We are particularly fond of cooking them with a hamhock. And maybe a little crushed red pepper.

They don't need much.

ETA - I've used various of RG's limas to make a Greek dish, wherein you bake the beans with roasted red peppers. Here's a good recipe: Baked Greek Beans & Roasted Red Peppers

Edited by Jaymes, 06 December 2011 - 03:22 PM.