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Still looking for sous vide eggs with whites set. My tests with pics

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27 replies to this topic

#1 jaymer

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 11:19 AM

I've read most of the SV material available. Even Kyhmos' post references Balwins pics, and they are two years old. Not much in the way of recent info [that I have found] for the perfect SV egg.

I wasn't against the 62.2 egg from Balwin, and I'd like to use those in my restaurant, but the runny white is kinda a putoff - and yes, I've seen the 4 stages of protein temps.

Since I'm cooking a bunch of other stuff at 60C, I thought I'd try to SV eggs at that "standard" temp in my shop, and then boil them to see if I could get some outside heat into them to help set the white.

Here's my results with 5 eggs each boiled at 100C for a period of time after the 90 minute 60C water bath.

eggs.jpg


There was about 45 seconds after removal from the bath until the eggs went into the 100C water. Each egg was about 30 sec intervals.

1st pic (upper left) is the closest to just doing a 62.2 egg to begin with. The main thing I noticed was when opened, there was a thin layer of egg white still stuck inside the shell. It all came off uniformly, so its hard to notice - you can actually see a shiny surface inside the shell, which is the white glistening.

I was happy with the first egg and looking forward to the next ones, until the egg shell started sticking - something I had NEVER experienced doing 62.6 eggs. After the 3rd egg and seeing a set yellow, I was bummed and you can see the 4th and 5th eggs couldn't even have the shells removed properly to be anywhere close to presentable.

In summary, I added my tests to see if a better egg could be made to solve the runny white issue, but to no avail. For now, I'll have to continue to crack open on a side plate and then move to the final presentation to get that yucky ovomucoid off the plate.

#2 davidkeay

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 12:38 PM

If you can consistently get the 62.2 eggs from their shells, perhaps try something more like poaching for the second stage of cooking. Since the white is already somewhat set, I imagine it would hold its shape more than a standard poached egg.

#3 Shalmanese

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 01:39 PM

How old were your eggs? Fresh eggs are harder to hard boil.
PS: I am a guy.

#4 PedroG

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 05:29 PM

Did you try this method, i.e. 75°C for a time depending on circumference, see here and here and here?
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#5 jaymer

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 08:01 PM

Pedro, I have tried that. Its a real pain, measuring crap every time. And then you have to eat them right away since they keep cooking - kinda tough in a commercial setting, don't you think? Would be easier to cook on a flattop grill.

David, you mean remove them from the egg and dump them into boiling water, right? I'm not sure what that'll buy me if the more liquid white just runs away. I'm not worried about the white that is already set. I have no experience in poaching eggs.

These were NOT fresh eggs.

#6 teonzo

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 05:05 AM

For now, I'll have to continue to crack open on a side plate and then move to the final presentation to get that yucky ovomucoid off the plate.



Can't help you about other cooking methods, but I can tell you how the chef dealt with these eggs during service in a restaurant where I worked. He immersed the egg in water, craked the shell while immersed in water, and used a drilled spoon
http://www.rgmania.c...443x-274_s4.jpg
to collect the egg and place it on the plate.



Teo
My new blog: http://www.teonzo.com/

#7 PedroG

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 04:54 PM

Pedro, I have tried that. Its a real pain, measuring crap every time. And then you have to eat them right away since they keep cooking - kinda tough in a commercial setting, don't you think? Would be easier to cook on a flattop grill.
....

You might precook many eggs at 75°C for the required time, then either transfer to your 60°C bath until served, or chill for later use and reheat in the 60°C bath.
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#8 nickrey

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 06:46 PM

Can't contribute much to your discussion of setting the egg white but I can help you to get the eggs out easier.

I use one of these egg openers to produce a "lid" on the wider end of the shell that can be easily removed. Once this is done, the cooked sous vide egg slides easily out of the shell.

Nick Reynolds, aka "nickrey"

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#9 dougal

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 01:54 AM

...
Since I'm cooking a bunch of other stuff at 60C, I thought I'd try to SV eggs at that "standard" temp in my shop, and then boil them to see if I could get some outside heat into them to help set the white.

Here's my results with 5 eggs each boiled at 100C for a period of time after the 90 minute 60C water bath.

...

There was about 45 seconds after removal from the bath until the eggs went into the 100C water. Each egg was about 30 sec intervals.
...




Pedro, I have tried that. Its a real pain, measuring crap every time. And then you have to eat them right away since they keep cooking - kinda tough in a commercial setting, don't you think? Would be easier to cook on a flattop grill.
....

You might precook many eggs at 75°C for the required time, then either transfer to your 60°C bath until served, or chill for later use and reheat in the 60°C bath.



As a pre-production exercise, I'm not sure why one would wish to go directly from the sv bath to the 'boiling'.
An intermediate hold would seem best suited to production - as with standard poached eggs.
Also, having already 'pre-cooked' the yolk to 60C, I'd expect that chilling the egg would help limit additional yolk-cooking on reheating/white-setting.
"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch ... you must first invent the universe." - Carl Sagan

#10 jaymer

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 06:28 AM

DOUGAL

As a pre-production exercise, I'm not sure why one would wish to go directly from the sv bath to the 'boiling'.

Well, we go directly from SV to plate [or SV to torch, then plate] so it seemed a logical test to try to inject some "setting" heat on the outside and see if it helped.

I just wanted to publish my findings while I had a camera and verifiable results.
I'm not a fan of the 75C/measuring method - so in a sense I was already in a intermediate hold at 60C.

I have to say though, one thing not tried is chilling them. Will have to do that and see if a reheat will work - I have no idea how long that will take but won't I be back to the same issue as initial cooking? That is, I have to warm up the yolk so its not ice cold and I don't want it to set, so If I'm in hotter water than my preferred yolk (62.2C per Baldwin) I still have to rely on formulas of time/circum/temp. Given a pasteurized egg pre-cooked, I wonder how long it takes to get back to 62.2C in a 62.2C bath?

#11 dougal

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 03:13 AM

If you are worried about serving eggs with cool (although ideally cooked through) yolks, then it does make sense to do it Pedro's way round -- cook the whites first (and arrest before the yolk cooks), then heat the whole thing through to yolk-cooking temperature, and hold before service.
If you chill the whole raw egg, you should be able to maximise the cooking of the white while leaving the yolk 'raw' -- which is what you normally try to avoid by specifying room temp eggs for boiling.
It would be ideal to leave as much as possible of the yolk 'raw' because you are going to cook it in stage 2, at 62.5 or whatever you choose.
In stage 1, the thing is to get the white cooked WITHOUT (over) cooking the yolk. But unlike trad 'boiling', you are not trying to 'perfectly' cook the yolk - you actually want to under-cook it. Hence starting from cold should help.
"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch ... you must first invent the universe." - Carl Sagan

#12 andrestorrubia

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 02:05 PM

I'm exploring the concept of a modernist "tortilla de patata" aka "Spanish omelette" and I plan to SV the eggs (well mixed) to attain a honey-like viscosity.

Has anybody played with SV egg custards?

#13 PedroG

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:27 PM

Pedro, I have tried that. Its a real pain, measuring crap every time.
. . .

Maybe this would make measuring easier and faster:
PedroGs Egg cooking ruler_1200px.jpg

Download here:
Attached File  PedroGs Egg cooking ruler.pdf   19.04KB   460 downloads
(Any suggestions for improvement?)
  • Mofassah likes this
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#14 boudin noir

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 07:21 AM

This all seems to me to be an awful lot of trouble and time to make soft boiled or poached eggs. Why the fuss?

#15 mkayahara

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 07:31 AM

This all seems to me to be an awful lot of trouble and time to make soft boiled or poached eggs. Why the fuss?

In a word? Finesse.
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#16 IndyRob

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 04:04 PM

Is the traditional egg shape a must? I've long been thinking about (in a slightly different application) separating the whites and yolks and cooking them separately, then reconstructing the components.

This would require a custom tray mold to SV the whites into some sort of cup form and cooking the yolks separately. Then you just unmold the molded white, fill with cooked yolk, garnish, and serve.

Besides being able come up whimsical shapes (An egg cube? An egg white shot class filled with yolk?), you could individually season the components and completely sidestep the difficult issues involved with managing the temps of two different components in one package.

An egg's shape may be very classical, but is it the most practical shape for plating? I'd think that a flat bottom alone could be a huge plus.

#17 PedroG

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 01:40 AM

Is the traditional egg shape a must? I've long been thinking about (in a slightly different application) separating the whites and yolks and cooking them separately, then reconstructing the components.

This would require a custom tray mold to SV the whites into some sort of cup form and cooking the yolks separately. Then you just unmold the molded white, fill with cooked yolk, garnish, and serve.

Besides being able come up whimsical shapes (An egg cube? An egg white shot class filled with yolk?), you could individually season the components and completely sidestep the difficult issues involved with managing the temps of two different components in one package.

An egg's shape may be very classical, but is it the most practical shape for plating? I'd think that a flat bottom alone could be a huge plus.

Very funny, but this would really be an awful lot of trouble. Cooking in-shell eggs in a 75oC water bath for about a quarter of an hour is fast and simple and straightforward.
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#18 nickrey

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 03:18 PM

Timings for cooking soft eggs courtesy of Neil Perry's "Rockpool Bar and Grill"

First cook eggs for two hours sous vide at 60C.

At this stage, I chilled eggs in cold water and placed in refrigerator overnight.

Rewarm to 60C in sous vide cooker.

Then removed top of egg with this device:

egg topper.jpg

Then tip into ramekin:

soft egg in container.jpg

At this stage, and what I did, was gently slide the egg onto a strainer scoop (see cooked egg picture below) this leaves behind some of the fragmented cooked albumen and makes for a neater cooked egg.

Then slide egg into barely simmering water.

egg in barely simmering water.jpg

Leave it in there for a very brief time (think it was around a minute, maybe less, I did it by eye rather than time).

Remove egg:

cooked egg.jpg

Add to toast. Cut.

cut egg.jpg

I'm sure the process can be used effectively in a commercial kitchen Jaymer. Look forward to hearing how it turns out.

Edited by nickrey, 16 October 2011 - 03:20 PM.

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Unless there are three other people." Orson Welles
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#19 jaymer

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 07:07 AM

thanks.
i'll try that this week.
jaymer...

#20 pastameshugana

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 02:35 PM

...An egg white shot class filled with yolk?...


I, for one, think this is an absolutely brilliant idea and it must be pursued!
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#21 mkayahara

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 02:41 PM


...An egg white shot class filled with yolk?...


I, for one, think this is an absolutely brilliant idea and it must be pursued!

These would make it fairly trivial, no?
Matthew Kayahara
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#22 nickrey

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 05:26 PM

Cooked the second of the pre-cooked eggs today. This time, I didn't bother bringing back up to temperature. Just removed egg from shell, took away excess albumin then placed the egg directly in the simmering water. Same result, hot enough to eat, one less step.

Should also point out that the temp and time means that these babies are pasteurised. Moreover the egg yolk, while liquid, is not as runny as that of a "normal" poached egg: On the shot above the yolk didn't leak any more than what is shown.

Nick Reynolds, aka "nickrey"

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Unless there are three other people." Orson Welles
My eG Foodblog


#23 pastameshugana

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 10:41 PM



...An egg white shot class filled with yolk?...


I, for one, think this is an absolutely brilliant idea and it must be pursued!

These would make it fairly trivial, no?


Uh oh, I think I've stumbled across a foolish new obsession.

Thanks...
PastaMeshugana
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#24 PedroG

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 06:28 PM


Pedro, I have tried that. Its a real pain, measuring crap every time.
. . .

Maybe this would make measuring easier and faster:
PedroGs Egg cooking ruler_1200px.jpg

Download here:
http://egullet.org/p1840397
(Any suggestions for improvement?)

Another possibility to measure egg diameter using calipers (instead of "circumference measuring crap") was described over at Sous Vide Dash.
Adding diameters to Douglas Baldwin's EggHeatingTable would be easy if desired.
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#25 PedroG

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 07:57 AM

In-Shell Egg Heating Times in a 75°C Water Bath Using Circumference or Diameter

Douglas Baldwin made me a nice birthday present, he recalculated the EggHeatingTime table using diameter instead of circumference, with an increment of 1mm diameter instead of 5mm circumference, and restricting the range to chicken eggs, as extrapolating his experimental results from chicken eggs to quail eggs or goose eggs may eventually not be adequate, taking into account that protein composition and geometry might be different. Using calipers to measure diameter instead of measuring circumference might facilitate “measuring crap”.

Measuring egg diameter with calipers.jpg
 
So here is Douglas’ new table for download:

Attached File  In-Shell Egg Heating Times in a 75°C Water Bath Using Circumference or Diameter.pdf   474.6KB   259 downloads


Edited by PedroG, 27 February 2013 - 08:15 AM.

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#26 EnriqueB

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 02:05 AM

I go low tech here: I have a thin string on which I've done 14, 15, 16 and 17 cm marks. Measuring circunference with it is fast, measures between the marks are approximated but that has turned good enough for me.

 

One question: the 75ºC fast method does not pasteurize to core, does it? Should an egg be infected inside with salmonella, I understand the core is not kept long enough to a high enough temperature to have a 6.5 log reduction?



#27 PedroG

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 06:47 PM

According to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_%28food%29#Contamination 1 in 30'000 eggs is contaminated with Salmonellae.

D[140°F (60°C)] = 1.73 minutes or  5D[140°F (60°C)] = 8.7 minutes according to FOOD PATHOGEN CONTROL DATA SUMMARY.

Looking at egullet.org/p1802400 you see that the yolk may not be safely pasteurized with the 75°C fast method when going for 64°C core temperature.

You can pasteurize eggs by placing in a 57°C water bath for at least 75 minutes according to Douglas Baldwin's guide.

So if you want or have to go the safe way, pasteurize all your eggs immediately and then store in the fridge until used.

 


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#28 EnriqueB

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 01:01 AM

Thanks for your answer Pedro. I know this is an extremelly unlikely event, and when I needed it (e.g. when my wife was pregnant) I did pasteurize the eggs in-shell in the water bath (Modernist Cuisine also proposes 2 hours at 55ºC), though I don't do it normally.

 

The question was because I like to state food safety details of every new sous-vide recipe I propose on my blog, and I just wanted to double-check my understanding of the 75ºC-egg case before publishing a post.







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