90 replies to this topic

[Keith_W]

Chris, I think that everyone knows how to take their own shortcuts when it is warranted. I don't always go to the trouble of making my own ice-cream, even when a recipe calls for it. Everyone has enough common sense to know when to take a shortcut when they know they are short of time. I just don't expect a cookbook written by the world's greatest chef to do it. At the very least, he could have said "Vanilla ice cream (see p240) or store-bought". That is acceptable.

You actually learn how to cook with Heston's book. He goes through all the steps, explains the reasons, and tells you what happens if you were tempted to take a shortcut. Not so here - the instructions remind me of Airfix instructions. And even I know that many of the things he tells you to do are not "best practice" ... it is what you do when you are pressed for time, and not concerned with ultimate results.

I suspect I am not alone on this forum in wanting the absolute best. I will go to great lengths to source the best produce, and cook the best food. A cookbook that tells me to open a tub of ice cream does not cut it.

[Mallet]

Not every cookbook needs to be a French Laundry or even a Bouchon-type cookbook. I simply do not seek restaurant-level refinement for every single meal, I suspect most people don't either. You're writing off the vast majority of cookbooks in one stroke, which seems a little extreme to me. For day-to-day cooking, if I can get 80% of the result with 20% of the effort, I'm all for it.

[Keith_W]

Mallet, if you think about it ... the vast majority of cookbooks don't offer anything new either. I am fed up of cookbooks that tell you to cook to time instead of temperature, measure ingredients by volume instead of weight, and ESPECIALLY cookbooks that tell you to open a tub of bought ice cream. I don't need a cookbook to tell me to open a tub of ice cream ... do you?

The truth is, close to 95% of the cookbooks in the market aren't worth the paper they are printed on. How is a Nigella roast chicken recipe different to a Jamie Oliver roast chicken recipe? I can tell you how the Heston recipe is different - he follows best practice, educates you about a chicken roast, and tells you to cook to temperature.

[DanM]

I am starting to dig into this book and am happy with the recipes so far. Only one issue has come up... The recipe for Romesco sauce calls for Choricero pepper paste. I do not know where to find it, let alone kosher. Are there any substitutes or ways to make this sauce?

[inductioncook]

Does the Heston book tell you what to do if you DO have the equipment and chemicals he would use in the restaurant? In other words, simplified results, like the roast chicken example you gave, but not simplified technique. In other words, when he suggests a home procedure does he also tell what the original or state-of-the-art procedure would be?

[Keith_W]

Hi inductioncook - no he doesn't. The title of the Heston book is "Heston Blumenthal at Home". I have read it cover to cover, and it does not call for any exotic equipment or ingredients. His ice cream recipe does call for dry ice, and he does suggest using gelatin filtration for making consommes. Both are fairly advanced techniques but not beyond the scope of a home cook.

If you want "state of the art procedure" ... either get The Fat Duck Cookbook, or Modernist Cuisine.

[inductioncook]

Both of which are very good.

[inductioncook]

Note that Phaidon produced a separate US edition using what they must have thought US consumers wanted (sadly). The master edition is the UK one, with a separate ISBN and metric style. From this they produced versions in French, Italian and "American." The elimination of the original measurements for an American edition surprised a lot of us, particularly since they did not do this for their Day at El Bulli. There is another forum about this book with more about the editions.

[ChrisTaylor]

Trying another recipes over the weekend--tonight it's the Catalan-style turkey and tomorrow it'll be the Mexican pork shoulder, about which I've heard good things.

[ChrisTaylor]

The turkey recipe is okay. The drumsticks in the photo looked small--much smaller than the creepily toddler-sized drumsticks avaliable at Australian supermarkets--so I opted for turkey wings. Turns out, slow-cooking gives turkey of non-descript quality a bit of a boost.

Have some pork marinating in the fridge for tomorrow night.

[ChrisTaylor]

The slow-cooked pork is nice enough, too, altho' I admit I modified the recipe somewhat--I felt 400F (200C~) was too hot--given the intent, after all, is to end up with shredded meat you can load into tortillas--so I dropped it to 125C. Four hours became ... 7? 7.5?

[coz]

I made the Garlic+Bread soup last night and the Guacamole. Both were great. I haven't had time to compare the UK and USA editions yet.

[Jaymes]

Mallet, if you think about it ... the vast majority of cookbooks don't offer anything new either. I am fed up of cookbooks that tell you to cook to time instead of temperature, measure ingredients by volume instead of weight, and ESPECIALLY cookbooks that tell you to open a tub of bought ice cream. I don't need a cookbook to tell me to open a tub of ice cream ... do you?

The truth is, close to 95% of the cookbooks in the market aren't worth the paper they are printed on. How is a Nigella roast chicken recipe different to a Jamie Oliver roast chicken recipe? I can tell you how the Heston recipe is different - he follows best practice, educates you about a chicken roast, and tells you to cook to temperature.

I feel pretty sure it's just me but, in my world, what "kind" of cookbook I'm interested in at any given time has more to do with that day's situation than anything else. And I definitely disagree that "95% of the cookbooks in the market aren't worth the paper they are printed on."

As the mother/cook/babysitter/housecleaner/dishwasher/grocery-shopper/chauffeur/tutor/clothing-maker and everything-else-that-needs-doing-er for my large family, I often don't give a perfectly-roasted chicken's fat patootey about the "best practice." I want inspiration. And I grab one of those cookbooks you dismiss as worthless to help me think of some good and tasty ideas to put on the table for the 21+ meals I have to come up with each week.

Sure, it's nice to occasionally have somebody like Heston tell me what is the "best practice."

But mostly, that's a luxury reserved for folks that have the time, money, patience, and accommodating diners that allow it. You appear to be one of those lucky folks. Congratulations. I won't disparage whichever cookbooks inspire you. But I'll be keeping those that inspire me.

[Mjx]

. . . .

I feel pretty sure it's just me but, in my world, what "kind" of cookbook I'm interested in at any given time has more to do with that day's situation than anything else. And I definitely disagree that "95% of the cookbooks in the market aren't worth the paper they are printed on."

As the mother/cook/babysitter/housecleaner/dishwasher/grocery-shopper/chauffeur/tutor/clothing-maker and everything-else-that-needs-doing-er for my large family, I often don't give a perfectly-roasted chicken's fat patootey about the "best practice." I want inspiration. And I grab one of those cookbooks you dismiss as worthless to help me think of some good and tasty ideas to put on the table for the 21+ meals I have to come up with each week.

Sure, it's nice to occasionally have somebody like Heston tell me what is the "best practice."

But mostly, that's a luxury reserved for folks that have the time, money, patience, and accommodating diners that allow it. You appear to be one of those lucky folks. Congratulations. I won't disparage whichever cookbooks inspire you. But I'll be keeping those that inspire me.

But best practice (if it's truly best practice, and not merely esoteric/recherché practice) saves time and money, and makes cooking a pleasure.

If a cookbook is being used for visual inspiration alone, that's fine, but I'd have to agree that as many as 95% of cookbooks seem less than useful, since they merely retread recipes that have been found elsewhere, and have just enough changes to avoid copyright infringement issues: To the editor, these may appear to be insignifiant alterations to an ingredient, measurement, or process, but make the difference between success (or at least 'not bad'), and 'crash and burn'.

Adrià's book is not in the copied/untested category, but I'm guessing that it works best for (and is targeted at) those who are at least somewhat familiar with best practice/the science involved.

[Jaymes]

But best practice (if it's truly best practice, and not merely esoteric/recherché practice) saves time and money, and makes cooking a pleasure.

If a cookbook is being used for visual inspiration alone, that's fine, but I'd have to agree that as many as 95% of cookbooks seem less than useful, since they merely retread recipes that have been found elsewhere, and have just enough changes to avoid copyright infringement issues: To the editor, these may appear to be insignifiant alterations to an ingredient, measurement, or process, but make the difference between success (or at least 'not bad'), and 'crash and burn'.

Adrià's book is not in the copied/untested category, but I'm guessing that it works best for (and is targeted at) those who are at least somewhat familiar with best practice/the science involved.

I don't use my books "for visual inspiration alone." I read through them, and find all sorts of inspiration lurking in their pages - brand new (to me) ideas, thoughts, suggestions, methods, ingredients; even attitudes and ways of looking at life in the kitchen. I find new twists on old ideas as well, often things I've done for decades. And that doesn't even begin to take into account the fact that "best practice" is subjective, an entirely different issue.

I said it was probably just me, but I'm sure I've got at least 1000 cookbooks, and likely more. Some are old friends I've had since I got married back in 1969. Some are even older friends, having belonged to my mother or grandmother. And I've lived, traveled and eaten around the world, literally. As I approach 70, it would be tempting to believe that I've done, seen, heard about, cooked, eaten it all, from whole monkey and iguana roasted on an open fire in a Cuna Indian village in the San Blas Islands when we lived in Panama, to creamed rooster testicles at a wedding dinner when I lived in Hong Kong, to balut (fertilized egg) when we lived in the Philippines, to jellied moose nose when we lived in Alaska.

But still, every single time I sit down with one of my cookbooks, I find something in it of enough value to definitely make it "worth the paper it's printed on," at least to me.

There's nothing wrong with being discriminating. Certainly not everyone wants or needs or could use or find value in 1000 cookbooks. But making blanket, sweeping, condescending statements like "95% of the cookbooks in the market aren't worth the paper they are printed on," seems to me to be pretty-much always unwise, usually saying more about the speaker than the spoken about.

And, by the way, it just so happens that I also own Adria's "Family Meal" (both the US and UK versions) and have cooked from it. I find it to be remarkably simple and unpretentious.

Amusingly enough, one of his desserts is "Almond soup with ice cream."

On page 294 (UK version), he gives quite detailed instructions as to how to prepare the almond soup, but pretty clearly seems happy with the notion of going to your freezer and opening up a tub of previously-purchased ice cream.

Edited by Jaymes, 10 November 2011 - 09:00 AM.

[Mjx]

. . . .

I don't use my books "for visual inspiration alone." I read through them, and find all sorts of inspiration lurking in their pages - brand new (to me) ideas, thoughts, suggestions, methods, ingredients; even attitudes and ways of looking at life in the kitchen. And I find new twists on old ideas as well, often things I've done for decades. And that doesn't even begin to take into account the fact that "best practice" is subjective, an entirely different issue.

I said it was probably just me, but I'm sure I've got at least 1000 cookbooks, and likely more. Some are old friends I've had since I got married back in 1969. Some are even older friends, having belonged to my mother or grandmother. And I've lived, traveled and eaten around the world, literally. As I approach 70, it would be tempting to believe that I've done, seen, cooked, eaten it all, from whole monkey and iguana roasted on an open fire in a Cuna Indian village in the San Blas Islands when we lived in Panama, to creamed rooster testicles at a wedding dinner when I lived in Hong Kong, to jellied moose nose when we lived in Alaska.

But still, every single time I sit down with one of my cookbooks, I find something in it of enough value to definitely make it "worth the paper it's printed on," at least to me.

There's nothing wrong with being discriminating. Certainly not everyone wants or needs or could use or find value in 1000 cookbooks. But making blanket, sweeping, condescending statements like "95% of the cookbooks in the market aren't worth the paper they are printed on," seems to me to be pretty-much always unwise, saying more about the speaker than the spoken about.

And, by the way, it just so happens that I also own Adria's "Family Meal" (both the US and UK versions) and have cooked from it. I find it to be remarkably simple and unpretentious.

Amusingly enough, one of his desserts is "Almond soup with ice cream."

He gives quite detailed instructions as to how to prepare the almond soup, but pretty clearly seems quite happy with the notion of going to your freezer and opening up a tub of previously-purchased ice cream.

Fair enough, and as you point out, it's a very personal thing. I don't have a dozen cookbooks, and the ones I have are either very old, or incredibly reliable. Also, I travel/move often, and my books are some of the few things with which I'm unwilling to part, so my selection process is necessarily stringent.

I'm fine with prepared things (I don't think I've ever even made my own ice cream), but I find that knowing something about how to make them makes it far easier to make chices I'm happy with.

[Jaymes]

I'm fine with prepared things (I don't think I've ever even made my own ice cream), but I find that knowing something about how to make them makes it far easier to make chices I'm happy with.

And, ironically enough, we actually make homemade ice cream and sorbets (with my limoncello, among other things) all the time.

[Mjx]

My question now is, if you were say, going to stay with a friend who happened to have no cookbooks or ability to cook (but did have an appreciation of good food), so you were going to bring a cookbook of your own--only one--and do any cooking, would The Family Meal: Home cooking with Ferran Adrià be one you'd consider bringing?

I realize the situation I've described is absurdly contrived (if no weirder than some I've found myself in), which is the reason I'm saying 'one you'd consider', not 'the only/first one I'd choose'

[Jaymes]

My question now is, if you were say, going to stay with a friend who happened to have no cookbooks or ability to cook (but did have an appreciation of good food), so you were going to bring a cookbook of your own--only one--and do any cooking, would The Family Meal: Home cooking with Ferran Adrià be one you'd consider bringing?

I realize the situation I've described is absurdly contrived (if no weirder than some I've found myself in), which is the reason I'm saying 'one you'd consider', not 'the only/first one I'd choose'

Interesting. I'll look forward to what others have to say but, speaking just for myself, I think it's a great place to start. I haven't had it for terribly long, but my first impression is that it is an excellent choice.

Other than the fact it's rather large, heavy and unwieldy and not something I'd like to haul through an airport in my carry-on bag, there are a great many things about the book that lend itself to just such a scenario.

My daughter, who has reached her early 30's not knowing how to cook a thing (too busy working on her education and career, interspersed with having my grandbabies, and being blessed with a husband that likes to cook and is wonderful at it), has just decided she wants to learn. She's taking a hiatus from her job and we're beginning our kitchen journey. I bought her a copy of "Family Meals" because it's so precise, with excellent step-by-step instructions, accompanied by photos illustrating each step. The recipes seem simple and well-thought-out, even including time charts and a shopping list for each dish. Ingredient measurements are given to serve 2, or 6, or 20 or 75. Very handy. I think it would be hard to go wrong, if you're following along exactly as instructed. The book also features menus, something that can be a little difficult to get the hang of when one is just beginning to cook and entertain.

It has a fairly limited number of recipes, so it's certainly not an encyclopedic, comprehensive reference source, like Joy of Cooking was for my generation, but that can be a plus for a beginning cook that feels a little overwhelmed with a large tome.

We're only at the beginning of this journey so this is just a first impression but, thus far, I think it's a wise choice.

Edited by Jaymes, 10 November 2011 - 12:50 PM.

[roygon]

I bought this book at the same time as the new Heston book. What a contrast - where Heston has modified his recipes for home use by omitting some modernist ingredients and leaving out specialist equipment, Ferran Adria's book uses shortcuts. Heston's book is doable by any home cook who has the commitment to attempt his multiple step recipes, but you can tell that each recipe has been carefully formulated with a keen eye for detail.

Now for Ferran Adria's book. I was gobsmacked to see that his potato straw recipe was ... open a pack of potato straws! Likewise, his basil and tomato salad recipe was a complete joke. Here it is: peel and slice tomatoes, then add EVOO, salt, vinegar, and basil. Or take his Mandarins and Cointreau recipe - juice mandarins, add Cointreau, drizzle over mandarin segments, add vanilla ice-cream (you guessed it ... the recipe was: open a tub of vanilla ice-cream), and serve. His roast chicken recipe does not tell you what temperature to cook the chicken to, nor does it even tell you to brine the chicken. Heston's recipe is the complete opposite - Heston will have you fussing over your chicken for 24 hours before finishing it with the precision of a scientist.

After reading this book I can't help but think he is taking the piss out of us. What new insights does this book have to offer? None! Avoid, save your money.

I second your thoughts... not the worst book I've bought in the last year but maybe the most disappointing. I've tried half a dozen recipes from the book and nothing so far that I'd consider making again. Heston's book just arrived and it looks awesome

[inductioncook]

And do you know (or does anyone) whether the US and UK editions of Heston at Home differ from each other?

The US edition of The Family Meal is really a disaster. Not only did they lose all the metric, the conversions are more than occasionally way, way off -- viz., the beef stock mentioned above, and the stock for the mackerel soup which is listed as 3/4 cup instead of 400ml!!!

[inductioncook]

On the other hand, it turns out I was wrong that they had substantially changed the text between the US and UK versions. The things I noticed that were different when I first saw excerpts from the UK version (in the video) turned out not to be in the published UK version. The video must have been using an earlier mock-up.

[Mallet]

My question now is, if you were say, going to stay with a friend who happened to have no cookbooks or ability to cook (but did have an appreciation of good food), so you were going to bring a cookbook of your own--only one--and do any cooking, would The Family Meal: Home cooking with Ferran Adrià be one you'd consider bringing?

I realize the situation I've described is absurdly contrived (if no weirder than some I've found myself in), which is the reason I'm saying 'one you'd consider', not 'the only/first one I'd choose'

I did something not dissimilar to this on Friday. We having a few beers at the grad student pub early friday evening, then six of us decided we wanted to cook dinner (it was about 7pm). We walked to my place, picked a menu out of the book (vichyssoise, lamb, and chocolate truffles), split up for groceries, and started cooking at approximately 8:30pm. After 1.5 hours of unhurried cooking we had a three course meal (which ended up feeding 9 instead of 6), for between $5-6 dollars a head.

Everyone loved the food, the instructions were clear, and we were already thinking about next week's dinner. I may have to start carrying it in my backpack.

[Anna N]

....
I did something not dissimilar to this on Friday. We having a few beers at the grad student pub early friday evening, then six of us decided we wanted to cook dinner (it was about 7pm). We walked to my place, picked a menu out of the book (vichyssoise, lamb, and chocolate truffles), split up for groceries, and started cooking at approximately 8:30pm. After 1.5 hours of unhurried cooking we had a three course meal (which ended up feeding 9 instead of 6), for between $5-6 dollars a head.

Everyone loved the food, the instructions were clear, and we were already thinking about next week's dinner. I may have to start carrying it in my backpack.

What a great idea. Wish I had a bunch of willing friends to do the same. Thanks for sharing.

[inductioncook]

Nice!

[ianinfrance]

I have to say that with the glorious insouciance of someone who's read neither of these two books, but who has at least eaten at the Fat Duck and has tried some of the recipes in Heston's "Family Food", I find the juxtaposition "Home cooking" with either of these two chefs to be odd. They're all doing it and it's no less absurd when it's Gordon Ramsay or Michel Roux Jr, trying to persuade you that really, you too can cook like them on a day to day basis. I cam live with a top chef writing an aspirational book and selling it to people who want to push the boat out for some special occasion.

Actually, I can't blame them. We all want to make money, and so I can see why a chef wants to cash in on his cachet. And they are going to sell more books and get richer by trying to persuade the great unwashed that they too can cook like "that funny guy in Barcelona" or "that mad englishman with glasses" if only they buy their cookbooks, rather than to try to appeal to serious foodies.

[Jaymes]

....
I did something not dissimilar to this on Friday. We having a few beers at the grad student pub early friday evening, then six of us decided we wanted to cook dinner (it was about 7pm). We walked to my place, picked a menu out of the book (vichyssoise, lamb, and chocolate truffles), split up for groceries, and started cooking at approximately 8:30pm. After 1.5 hours of unhurried cooking we had a three course meal (which ended up feeding 9 instead of 6), for between $5-6 dollars a head.

Everyone loved the food, the instructions were clear, and we were already thinking about next week's dinner. I may have to start carrying it in my backpack.

What a great idea. Wish I had a bunch of willing friends to do the same. Thanks for sharing.

As I said above, my daughter and I are doing essentially the same thing. I can easily see how this book wouldn't appeal to everyone. But it's working very well for us and our needs.

[inductioncook]

ianinfrance, I think you don't have to be trying to create restaurant food to learn from someone who has thought deeply about the subject and is explaining techniques. If you are in France, take a look at Guy Savoy's home cooking book, Vos Petits Plat Par Un Grand, as an example:

http://www.amazon.fr...22598569&sr=8-8

Ludicrously simple home cooking, many might say (as with Adria's book), but done with such taste and thoughtful observation that it is worth reading and learning from. And fascinating to hear a great chef, in these sous vides days, talk about the benefits of the smell of a chicken roasting on a Sunday afternoon, the kind of thing Blumenthal talks about in his new book, too.

Guy Savoy's book is also available in an English translation as, Simple French Recipes for the Home Cook, with an introduction by Patricia Wells. I can't vouch for the translation or any conversion of units.

[WJConrad]

The US edition of The Family Meal is really a disaster. Not only did they lose all the metric, the conversions are more than occasionally way, way off -- viz., the beef stock mentioned above, and the stock for the mackerel soup which is listed as 3/4 cup instead of 400ml!!!

I emailed the publisher of the US edition a few months back asking them if they were going to post a PDF errata of all the measurement conversion errors, but they never responded. If the UK version actually has weight measures, and isn't off by several orders of magnitude in about 1/3rd of the recipes, I may have to track that down and order it. Hopefully Amazon UK can deliver to the US.

[Borgstrom]

I was disappointed to find that instead of metric weight/mass based measurements, the version I ordered from Amazon.com had US/volume based measurements. I then ordered the version from Amazon.ca (Canada), which had the metric measurements on the pages shown at the site, but, alas, it shipped with the US measurements. Now I have two copies of the version I don't want. Perhaps the UK version has metric/mass based measurements, but I'm not sure if I'm willing to purchase a third version at this point...