405 replies to this topic

[Paul Kierstead]

Actually, it'll only pull 27", and the cut off (which I could probably override) stops at 25". It is designed for a good vacuum, but also to move a lot of air (6.5 CFM). So it'll make a damn quick evacuation, but only about normal for a commercial unit I think in terms of strength. I use it for vacuum veneering with a 4'x8' vacuum bag....

[blackp]

....., but also to move a lot of air (6.5 CFM). So it'll make a damn quick evacuation, but only about normal for a commercial unit I think in terms of strength.

I have a Henkelman Boxer 42 unit which is a large table top commercial machine. It's pump according to the spec. pulls 21m3/h which equates to 12.3CFM or nearly twice as fast as your pump. The cycle time for my machine is 15-35 seconds and the best I can calculate the volume of the chamber is that it is something less than 1.2cf (or 0.03 m3). If my calculations are correct it should vacuum in around 6-10 seconds which seems about right then allowing a couple of seconds for sealing and a further few for soft air introduction the stated cycle times seem about right. I notice that it takes much longer to pull the last few percent of vacuum than it does to go from 0-80%, so I don't think that you can just calculate the time using only the volume of the chamber and the vacuum rate of the pump.

What size of the chamber are you planning to vacuum? If it is too large you may find that a 6.5cfm pump takes a while to get there.

[Paul Kierstead]

The pump evacuates a 4'x8' bag (note feet, not inches) in a quite reasonable period of time (usually to 23"HG or so is what I set it to; note sure how long it takes, but quite quickly). I am definitely not concerned about evacuation time; it would have to be very large indeed to be an issue. When I start vaccing 6'x1'x'1 chambers (a whole moose leg?) I'll get concerned :)

[abadoozy]

I did the watermelon last night, and it was great! 2-3 oz of liquor for about 24 ounces of melon was light but definitely tasty. I might use more liquor next time. Anyone else thinking of fruit salad?

I also had a thought in the middle of the night that I just tried - cold brewed coffee. I know you can make a good cup of coffee by letting the grounds and water sit overnight then straining and heating, or keeping cold for iced coffee. Why not try speeding up the process with the vacuum sealer?

Following this recipe, I put 1/3 cup (22 grams) of fresh ground coffee in a bag with 1.5 cups of water and vacuumed. At about the 25 second mark it started boiling over, to the point that it didn't seal. I figure that didn't really matter, what I was looking for was the vacuum, not necessarily the seal. I pulled it out and filtered through a gold filter. And it worked - the coffee was definitely strong and good.

Still, I wanted to see what would happen with a longer vacuum, so put it back in the bag with the grounds and vacuumed again. Came out slightly stronger this time. Next time I'm going to use a larger bag and hopefully get a longer initial vacuum and see what happens.

I'll definitely be using this technique for iced coffees this summer. Very nice to not have to brew then wait for it to cool. I'm also thinking I could use some cream and maybe some flavorings (nutmeg/cinnamon/vanilla bean/whatever) and make it interesting that way.

Or liquor... there's always liquor. Iced Irish Coffee, anyone?

[Chris Amirault]

Genius.

[KennethT]

Update on vacuum filters - I just got off the phone with tech support at Parker (the parent co. of Wilkerson linked upthread). Unfortunately, you can't use a coalescing filter because it can shatter under the vacuum... BUT, they do make a filter made for vacuum.. it only has a 10 micron filter, but the engineer said it should remove water/oil vapors just fine. This is a link to their catalog - once loaded, do a search for "vfp" and you should see it.. It's in section B, digital page 55. It has a stated range of up to 28inHg, but she said that there is a safety factor built it, so you could go a bit higher with no problems. It's just not intended for REALLY strong vacuum, which we wouldn't be using in the kitchen anyway...

[edsel]

...
I also had a thought in the middle of the night that I just tried - cold brewed coffee. I know you can make a good cup of coffee by letting the grounds and water sit overnight then straining and heating, or keeping cold for iced coffee. Why not try speeding up the process with the vacuum sealer?
...

Genius.

Agreed! This is a great idea. I'll be trying it tomorrow.

[Carlton]

So I've decided i'm in the market for a chamber sealer, my foodsaver just isn't cutting it anymore. Is everyone here still happy with their VP112? The only negative I've read is that the dry piston that is in the VP112 and VP210 will give out faster when being used with liquids than the oil pump in the VP215, but I figure that probably is still after years of home use. I know the VP112 can't use retort bags but the manual does say it works with the 4 mil bags which would be a little thicker at least.

Obviously price is a consideration, I can't spend a couple thousand but do you think the larger units like the VP210 or VP215 would be worth getting over the Vp112? Quality Matters has them all on sale right now and the VP215 is especially cheap. I'm not really concerned about size or weight, I won't be traveling with it and I can lift 90 pounds enough to get it off the counter and into a cabinet.

For those with the VP112 what would you estimate is the largest size chunk of meat you could put in? I know a section of tenderloin would be no problem but what about a section of a rib roast?

p.s. Chris A, I know we've both been enjoying the MC Pastrami lately. I've resorted to doing my brine in a large cambro container because I'm doing batches of 3kg+ at a time, it's much easier than trying to seal that much liquid (especially with a food saver). I don't know how much effect of the brine I'm losing by not having it vacuumed but it seems to taste the same. I'm getting so many requests for pastrami now my poor little SousVide Supreme can't keep up.

[avaserfi]

I'm getting curious about this topic as well. My foodsaver is dying a slow death and will probably give out any day now. This was one of their first models and was used infrequently for years. As soon as I started to use it more often for sous vide cooking it started to break down. I really don't want to spend $200 on another foodsaver just to have it break and I know there are other companies that make clamp style sealers, but a chamber vac is intriguing, especially with the lower cost bags.

Right now I'm trying to figure out the benefits of having a chamber vacuum sealer over a clamp style (I have not gotten to the relevant portion in Modernist Cuisine, if there is one) . The most obvious is the ability to easily seal liquids. Along side that there is speeding up marinades, compressing fruits and better storage life. Considering the fact that the cheaper vacuum chamber sealers cost about 3x a clamp sealer (not including bag costs), does it offer anything else to the experience over a clamp sealer?

Also, are there any downsides to having a chamber sealer vs clamp sealer? I've read that some models might crush softer foods, is this really an issue?

[KennethT]

To me, it seems that the biggest problem for a chamber sealer is the fact that everything has to be cold before being sealed. So, for me right now, using a ziplock, I can sear a piece of meat, put a little liquid in the bag (or rendered fat) and seal it right away. If using a chamber sealer, I'd have to chill it in the fridge for a while until it's cold - which would probably take a couple of hours.

[Chris Amirault]

Yep -- and the first time you forget about that, well, it's quite an experience cleaning the thing up....

[avaserfi]

Thus far I haven't had a need to seal anything while it was hot. The warmest thing I have sealed was slightly above room temp which, from what I understand, shouldn't be a problem.

For those who upgraded from a clamp style vacuum sealer to a chamber sealer do you still think it was worth it?

[LoftyNotions]

Thus far I haven't had a need to seal anything while it was hot. The warmest thing I have sealed was slightly above room temp which, from what I understand, shouldn't be a problem.

For those who upgraded from a clamp style vacuum sealer to a chamber sealer do you still think it was worth it?

While I'll never be able to financially justify it, for the toy value I'm very happy with my chamber sealer. With my clamp style I could seal somewhat larger items, but that hasn't been a big problem.

Now that bags only cost 2 to 8 cents each I find myself using it a lot more than when bags were over 30 cents each.

And for food preparations like curry infused apples and mango sorbet, they're awesome.

Chris, does your sealer have a manual seal/override button? On mine, if something starts boiling I just hit the manual seal and haven't had a spill to date.

Larry

[Mayur]

Quick question (related):

Any advice on which bags are best to get for the Vacmaster? I'm completely new to the model and I'm unsure exactly how thick a bag I'll be needing for sous vide vs. storage vs. infusion, etc.

[paulpegg]

Quick question (related):

Any advice on which bags are best to get for the Vacmaster? I'm completely new to the model and I'm unsure exactly how thick a bag I'll be needing for sous vide vs. storage vs. infusion, etc.

The VP112 uses commercial bags such as these from VacuumSealersUnlimitedYou cannot use the Foodsaver type with a mesh section.

[Carlton]

With the issues I'm starting to have with my foodsaver I've decided I'm def going to be picking up a chamber unit. My question for you guys is VP112 for $600 or VP210 for $750. Is the 210 worth an extra $150, I don't mind the price if the value is there. I'm looking to pick it up in the next couple days so your feedback is appreciated. For people with the vp112, what would you estimate the largest size roast you could fit in. Would it fit something like a portion of a rib roast?

[LoftyNotions]

Quick question (related):

Any advice on which bags are best to get for the Vacmaster? I'm completely new to the model and I'm unsure exactly how thick a bag I'll be needing for sous vide vs. storage vs. infusion, etc.

My chamber sealer isn't a Vacmaster, but I've been happy with standard 3 mil bags for everything. I have used Mylar bags for storing Transglutaminase, but that's a special case.

Larry

[LoftyNotions]

Also, are there any downsides to having a chamber sealer vs clamp sealer? I've read that some models might crush softer foods, is this really an issue?

There is a discussion of this in the Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment thread starting on page 13, post # 376. Probably the most useful information is In post 397 LINKED HERE.

Larry

[avaserfi]

Has anyone ever run into a situation where an item did not fit in the chamber? Is it possible to use a chamber vacuum sealer as an edge sealer in this case?

[LoftyNotions]

Has anyone ever run into a situation where an item did not fit in the chamber? Is it possible to use a chamber vacuum sealer as an edge sealer in this case?

I've seen videos of the MVS31 being used like that, but I haven't personally tried it.

Larry

[chefhenry]

Hi there, yes the mvs31, and all of the minipak machines apparently work as an external sealer. One just has to reverse the sealing bar and presto, works like a Food Saver, when using the chamber vac this way though you need to use the Foodsaver type bags, you need the texture of the bag to allow the sealer to draw out the air. I tried it, just to reassure myself that it did work, but haven't really found the need to seal anything larger than the 31 can handle. And in response to the earlier question, never had any buyers remorse about the couple thousand to substantially upgrade from the Foodsaver. Aside from the big savings on the bags, sealing liquids etc.. The kicker for me was compression, yuzu flavored compressed watermelon kind of made the whole deal even sweeter.

[jeffsf]

I'm still trying to catch up with the 134 pages of pre-2011 sous vide posts, but long ago came to the conclusion that I want a chamber machine for non-commercial use (so, for example, I don't need full NSF compliance or traceability).

I looked at the ARY units and discussed them with the manufacturer and several of their retailers and am not impressed by their comments on the longevity of the rocker pump units or even their oil pump unit. Coupled with the shift of production to China (after the time they were recommended by nathanm as well as the fishing boards), I've made the decision to move into a more robust unit.

I've been looking at the Minipack MVS 31X/35X/45X which seem to be attractively priced and have a reasonable distribution network in the US. With the exception of the 31X, they use Busch pumps like most commercial units. The 31X uses a DVP pump which some claim is "the same" as a Busch, with a different name plate, but I can't confirm that.

Multivac has some mid-priced units (relative to commercial equipment), the C100 and C200. They seem to be somewhat more sophisticated in their control than the Minipack units. They do have an established US presence which seems to be responsive.

It wasn't clear to me that either the Minipack or the Multivac have a soft-release of the chamber vacuum.

Koch doesn't have a 12" model, and seems to be overpriced compared to Henkelman.

Henkelman seems to be to be the most sophisticated, with their Boxer 35 or 42 having features that seem to be lacking in the others, such as soft-release of the vacuum and an optional "stop-on-boil" sensor. I'm tempted to pay the additional compared to the Minipack or Multivac units, but I'm very concerned about US distribution. The "new" US distributor doesn't show much more than a phone number for contact information.

For those that have or have explored these professional machines, I'd appreciate any insight into sales and parts channels that can help me make a better informed decision. The whole process reminds me of buying pro-sumer espresso machines, where you plunk down a significant amount of cash on something you've never even seen, not to mention used. (And yes, this is taking away from my conical grinder and Speedster or GS/3 savings account).

I've read that at least on person found the Koch (16") machine too large for their home kitchen. For those with the 16"-class machines, what would your recommendations be after living with one for a while?

Are there any other table-top commercial units you would recommend I consider?

Thanks!

[jduncan81]

I picked up a VP-215 and couldn't be happier. I can't imagine it ever wearing out with home use and an oil pump - and given that the cheapest price I can see for the MVS31 is almost double what I paid I'm quite happy with the decision :).

[LoftyNotions]

The MVS 31x doesn't have soft release, but I haven't found that to be an issue.

The main reason I went with the Minipak over an ARI with oil pump was being able to select a preset vacuum rather than setting a run time. As far as stop on boil, I guess that would be nice, but I find that a finger on the seal button works just fine.

HTH,

Larry

[Todd in Chicago]

Carlton....

I was in the same decision making type of process - the 112 or 210 - the money wasn't really the object. For me, the 210 gave some better options, BUT....the 210 is not really a machine you will be moving around much...by yourself. For me, that was the decision factor. My wife is NOT going to let me keep the sealer out in the kitchen, so I figured I would be schlepping it from wherever I ended up storing it to the kitchen for use. Not something I would really look forward to with the 210. Honestly, if I had a counter spot where it would permanently sit, I would have gotten that model. For me, the ability to move it around (and really not giving up too much functionaliy) the 112 was perfect.

Cheers....

Todd in Chicago

[Robert Jueneman]

I just came across this thread, or I would have contributed earlier.

After reading MC, and some extensive discussions with blackp and Douglas Baldwin, I opted for the Minipack MVS-31X. Although the Henkleman has some nice feature, including a soft-air feature, the Minipack seemed to have a better distribution and support system here in the US.

I bought mine from Doug Care Equipment. Doug seems to be very knowledgable, and has lots of other stuff as well, including bags. But PolyScience and others also sell them.

I ordered mine with dual 4mm seal bars, and no cut-off. But the seal bars are replaceable (although not cheap), so if you need a cut-off, you could easily switch back and forth.

The Minipack allows you to program the amount of time used for the sealing. I recently bought some 7mm retort pouches in order to try "canning" in the bag using a pressure cooker, but the added thickness requires you to crank the seal time up to the maximum of 4 seconds. Those bags were 8" by 18", which is too long for my chamber (they are intended for fish fillets.) And no, they cannot be used outside the chamber vacuum -- I would have to use a FoodSaver bag with the crinkle finish for something that big.

Yesterday I ordered the gas fill adapter from Doug Care. According to him, it shouldn't be too hard to upgrade the machine -- the holes are pre-drilled and the wiring just plugs in.

Although blackp uses a mix of nitrogen and CO2 (which is apparently used by restaurants and bars for pressurizing beer kegs), I think I will probably opt for nitrogen only, and get a 40 cubic foot tank that can sit on the counter behind the chamber vacuum and the anti-griddle. I'm told that I need a regulator that will go down to 2 bar (30 psi) reliably. Because most tanks are pretty scuffed up, I may make some kind of a nice looking cover for them, and it might be a good idea to somehow anchor it to the counter top. The thought of dropping the unit and breaking off the regulator, and having a bottle with 2000 psi jetting around the room doesn't seem very smart!

The intended use for this (other than experimentation) would be to preserve things like bread, cookies, bagels, chips, etc., without crushing them. By evacuating all of the air from the chamber, and then filling it with nitrogen before sealing, you can create a "pillow-pack" like that used for potato chips, and the lack of oxygen will retard the onset of staleness (I hope).

Doug indicated that the more expensive 45X model has a soft-air feature, and he suggested that it might not be that hard to modify the air inlet port and put a constricting valve on it, so it wouldn't compress food quite so violently. When I take the covers off to add the gas fill adapter, I'll try to scope out what that would take. If anyone else has any thoughts or has done this, please post them, as the soft-air feature would certainly be nice to have.

Edited by Robert Jueneman, 11 August 2011 - 09:16 AM.

[coz]

I was debating the Minipack vs the Henkelman for a while too. I went with the Henkelman Boxer 35 but I really like both units. The Henkelman has a powerful motor and the soft air feature is nice. The feature that I unexpectedly love is the quick stop H2O sensor. It works incredibly well with liquids or anything moist. Highly recommended.

[jeffsf]

I ended up going with the Henkleman 42 as it has a significantly larger chamber than the Minipack MVS31X. Not only does it have a 16.5" bar (lets us seal two 7.5"-wide bags at a time), but also it is 14.5" from the seal bar to the back of the chamber, in contrast to the Minipack at about 9.5" -- The Minipack felt like the size of an office laser printer as far as its chamber size

If we were only using the unit for sous vide, the Minipack would have been a great option. It certainly is significantly less expensive than the Henkleman and, in my opinion, significantly better quality than the ARY units. As we are likely to be sealing for the freezer as well, and sometimes in larger sizes (one of our good friends is a renaissance butcher) and in large quantities (we're considering individual portions of home-cooked food for our senior Poodles -- around 30 bags a week), the Henkleman got the nod.

I purchased the gas-fill option up front as I figure it was less to buy now (~$200) than it would be to ship my machine across the country later on.

The online presence for the Henkleman US rep, Vacuum-Packer.com, is not terribly strong, but it turns out to be a new face of AbsoluteSource.net, which others here have used, from what I understand. Trey Rios there was very helpful and responsive.

[coz]

Nice Jeff. Good luck with it.

[slschnur]

I recently purchased a Vacmaster VP112 sealer. The first time I tried it out, the unit sealed properly, but the top remained locked down, making it impossible to open the lid to remove the sealed item. After approximately 30 minutes of speaking with three different people at ARY, I was told to use the canister tubing to release the vacuum. I was told to let the unit rest so that an internal circuit could reset. It worked properly the next time. The next day, I used it again & again the top locked down, requiring the canister tubing to release the vacuum. Given the weight of the thing, I'm inclined to just keep the machine & use the tubing to release the vacuum, but if the tubing stops working,I suppose I could just bale up the entire thing, send it back, & let them deal with the food locked inside. Has anyone else had this problem with the VP112?