Jump to content


Welcome to the eG Forums!

These forums are a service of the Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, a 501c3 nonprofit organization dedicated to advancement of the culinary arts. Anyone can read the forums, however if you would like to participate in active discussions please join the Society.

Photo

Chamber Vacuum Sealers, 2011–2014

Modernist

  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
566 replies to this topic

#481 rotuts

rotuts
  • participating member
  • 5,303 posts
  • Location:Boston MA

Posted 21 January 2014 - 06:18 AM

I'm trying to understand both the functional difference, and life-expectancy of an oil-free pump vs an oil pump for a chamber vac.

 

Im looking for something durable, user friendly, and if an oil version is worth while, doing preventive maintenance on that pump at 

 

home as sending these for servicing seem to be difficult to do.

 

I found this quote from a person at Amazon evaluating the VP210:

 

"" Researching the machine online, I read that this is dry rocker piston instead of the more expensive rotary oil motor. The dry rocker piston machine will tend to clog after sealing bags with alot of moisture in them (items like fish), but supposedly will still last 10 time longer than the typical countertop external strip sealing machine. The rotary oil motor machine will last 10 times longer than the dry rocker piston machine. However, I am using this on a home basis, not a commercial setting, so the representative said that the dry rocker piston would be fine. ""

 

your thoughts would be appreciated.



#482 paulpegg

paulpegg
  • society donor
  • 212 posts

Posted 21 January 2014 - 07:38 AM

The simple answer is that a dry pump is not capable of pulling a 99.9% vacuum. At best, you can expect to achieve 93-95% vacuum. This is still good, unless you want to compress watermelon. A dry pump is also prone to wear due to contamination from water vapor that comes from the food at low pressure. This is the reason you should never vacuum seal warm or hot foods. The oil pump will not have this wear because the oil absorbs the moisture and the pump continues to be well lubricated. Changing the oil is not a big deal but should be done at least once a year or  more, depending upon usage.

 

I have a VP112 and it is fine for home use. I don't really need to crush watermelon so the lower vacuum level works fine for me. I doubt that there are many home users with oil type chamber sealers.


Edited by paulpegg, 21 January 2014 - 07:42 AM.

Paul Eggermann
Vice President, Secretary and webmaster
Les Marmitons of New Jersey

#483 horseflesh

horseflesh
  • participating member
  • 40 posts

Posted 21 January 2014 - 08:57 AM

I chose an oil pump because as long as I was spending a bundle, I didn't mind spending a little more to get maximum flexibility. Since the oil pump is tolerant of water vapor I don't have to worry too much about what I put in the chamber. Being able to seal warm, watery leftovers, or vacuum-dry foods before frying is pretty handy. 

 

I rarely need the higher vacuum level of the Busch pump but it's also nice to have. 



#484 rotuts

rotuts
  • participating member
  • 5,303 posts
  • Location:Boston MA

Posted 21 January 2014 - 10:02 AM

I had a problem w the pump on my Weston sealer.  after 3 years of use though.  but had to sent it back for repair which was a pain and total cost was about 150 $$

 

although i was very careful w water/warm foods it did get decent use over that time   ( 1 1/2 freezer loads ) Id like to avoid that problem again if I can

 

http://www.webstaura...20VMASVP10.html

 

cost at the above for  the 210, delivered no tax:  829

 

amazon for the identical or similar vacmaster:

 

http://www.amazon.co...m/dp/B001Q3LSW4

 

$ 1,300   Amazon does not list the price for the 215

 

for the 215 at webstaurantstore is 889  so that 60 $ is just pump insurance.

 

many thanks for your insights.



#485 DiggingDogFarm

DiggingDogFarm
  • participating member
  • 871 posts
  • Location:Finger Lakes Region of New York State

Posted 21 January 2014 - 12:18 PM

I've done a lot of research, I think the VP215 is definitely worth the few extra dollars.

 

This is the best price I've found on it...$877.88 and free shipping......

https://olivia-hayse...vacmaster-vp215

 

Changing the oil isn't a big deal.....

 

A dealer recommends tracking the number of bags used in order to schedule an oil change...."....what I recommend to my VP215 customers is that they change the oil after the first 1500 cycles and then every 3000 cycles. Each cycle is one bag, so it's easy to track how many cycles you have on the machine by how many bags you have used. There are two important exceptions; if you have been sealing a lot of liquids and have moisture built up in the oil, making it a milky color or if you are going to store it for any significant length or time without using it. In both cases, the moisture, if left to sit for weeks/months on end can rust the internal components of the pump which is never good."


~Martin
 
Unsupervised rebellious radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, self-reliant homesteader and adventurous cook. Crotchety cantankerous terse curmudgeon, nonconformist and contrarian who questions everything!
 


#486 rotuts

rotuts
  • participating member
  • 5,303 posts
  • Location:Boston MA

Posted 21 January 2014 - 12:39 PM

well that's not bad.  I even have that same 'power-screw-driver'  very convenient.

 

:biggrin:

 

your ref has 3 units left.  its shipped by truck and you take it off the truck.

 

how easy is this to 'hobble around with?"

 

many thanks


Edited by rotuts, 21 January 2014 - 12:49 PM.


#487 DiggingDogFarm

DiggingDogFarm
  • participating member
  • 871 posts
  • Location:Finger Lakes Region of New York State

Posted 21 January 2014 - 01:23 PM

I'd unbox/uncrate it in place and inspect for damage.

The VP215 weighs ~85 lbs. so eat some extra Wheaties!  :biggrin:


~Martin
 
Unsupervised rebellious radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, self-reliant homesteader and adventurous cook. Crotchety cantankerous terse curmudgeon, nonconformist and contrarian who questions everything!
 


#488 rotuts

rotuts
  • participating member
  • 5,303 posts
  • Location:Boston MA

Posted 21 January 2014 - 03:58 PM

"""   NEMA Plug  ""

 

this is the plug the Vac above comes with.  will it fit an ordinary three prong outlet?

 

sorry for the Bold  cant get it to go away



#489 DiggingDogFarm

DiggingDogFarm
  • participating member
  • 871 posts
  • Location:Finger Lakes Region of New York State

Posted 21 January 2014 - 04:15 PM

That's meaningless...there are dozens of "NEMA" plugs.

It should say a "Nema 5" plug which is the common 3 prong plug.

The machine is 110V, 60Hz, 4.2 Amps.


~Martin
 
Unsupervised rebellious radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, self-reliant homesteader and adventurous cook. Crotchety cantankerous terse curmudgeon, nonconformist and contrarian who questions everything!
 


#490 alanz

alanz
  • participating member
  • 163 posts
  • Location:Northern NJ

Posted 21 January 2014 - 04:17 PM

Agreed, here is a chart that shows all the NEMA plug and receptacle configurations

http://0.tqn.com/w/e...-Plug-Chart.gif

Edited by alanz, 21 January 2014 - 04:19 PM.


#491 btbyrd

btbyrd
  • participating member
  • 74 posts

Posted 21 January 2014 - 04:28 PM

The simple answer is that a dry pump is not capable of pulling a 99.9% vacuum. At best, you can expect to achieve 93-95% vacuum. This is still good, unless you want to compress watermelon.

 

I'm not sure that this is a limitation of dry piston pumps as such since the new Polyscience unit employs a dry pump but is apparently able to do vacuum compression. It might just be an issue with the VP-112. But since the Polyscience costs almost twice as much as the VP-112, it might not be worth the price difference unless you're looking to do a lot of pickling or melon-crushing.



#492 paulpegg

paulpegg
  • society donor
  • 212 posts

Posted 21 January 2014 - 04:48 PM

Well, I have searched and searched and cannot find a single place where PS states the actual vacuum level the can achieve in this box. At least the VP112 has a gauge that shows where you are. I think their marketing material leaves much to be desired. A 60 pound box with a dry pump? This is equivalent to the VP112. I doubt they can do to even 98% but of course, they aren't telling. Are they?  For twice the money I would beware.


  • rotuts likes this
Paul Eggermann
Vice President, Secretary and webmaster
Les Marmitons of New Jersey

#493 rotuts

rotuts
  • participating member
  • 5,303 posts
  • Location:Boston MA

Posted 21 January 2014 - 04:51 PM

over time, if you are not careful moisture from even common meat and poultry might

 

damage a dry pump

 

on my Weston vac, after 3 years  ( a long time ) I had to send it back for a pump replacement.

 

perhaps there pump came from " walmart "

 

( a joke )  at 3 years, 150 for the re-due, the oil pump in question would pay for itself in :

 

6 years + ?

 

and might be a bit of fun    costly though and 85 lbs.



#494 rotuts

rotuts
  • participating member
  • 5,303 posts
  • Location:Boston MA

Posted 21 January 2014 - 04:56 PM

based on the VP-215  I cant see the Poly worth much more than PR.



#495 gfweb

gfweb
  • participating member
  • 3,646 posts

Posted 21 January 2014 - 05:29 PM

based on the VP-215  I cant see the Poly worth much more than PR.


The name "VacMaster" is worth $200 at least. Make it "VacMaster 3000" add another couple hunderd.

#496 rotuts

rotuts
  • participating member
  • 5,303 posts
  • Location:Boston MA

Posted 22 January 2014 - 01:48 PM

might have  a touch of " Ice Brain ".  its 4 degrees you see ...

 

ordered the VP-215   the nice people at 

 

https://olivia-hayse...vacmaster-vp215

 

threw in the $ 40 for a lift gate so in 4 days it will be at my front door.

 

all I have to do it wrassle it inside over the door jam

 

after that, well .....

 

many thanks to all on the thread .

 

this is a bit cheaper than the BMW X3 my sister decided I needed.


Edited by rotuts, 22 January 2014 - 01:48 PM.


#497 Unpopular Poet

Unpopular Poet
  • society donor
  • 174 posts
  • Location:Just Outside of Chicago

Posted 22 January 2014 - 01:51 PM

Congrats -- I think you will be super happy with it -- had a nice member here not had a mvs-31x for sale, I am certain I would have gone with the VP-215 -- seems like a great machine for the price.



#498 horseflesh

horseflesh
  • participating member
  • 40 posts

Posted 22 January 2014 - 02:13 PM

Congrats -- I think you will be super happy with it -- had a nice member here not had a mvs-31x for sale, I am certain I would have gone with the VP-215 -- seems like a great machine for the price.

 

I was going to get the 215 before I talked myself into the MVS-35. I think the 215 looks like a great value. 



#499 yimyammer

yimyammer
  • participating member
  • 3 posts

Posted 25 January 2014 - 09:48 AM

I'm a more than happy owner of a VP-112.  Here's where I bought mine - http://www.homebutch...index&cPath=23.  I purchased the scratch and dent mode lfor $499 shipping included  just about a year ago and you would be hard pressed to find a flaw. It's listed as out of stock.  I have seen it at other sites for around $650.  It may not have all the bells and whistles but it is solid and does the job.  A nice advantage of the 12-inch seal bar is you can seal two 6-inch bags at a time. Great for small portions and reduces wear and tear.  It has the same motor as the VP-210 but can be used on a counter top with  cabinets above.  It is heavy, probably around 60# so you better have a dedicated place to park it.  I have gone through 800-900 cycles to date and it has performed very well.  The bags cost 3-4 cents which is 10x less than seal a meals so it can pay for itself with steady use.  Does a great job on liquids with caveat do not start with the bag to full. Butcher Packer also has very good pricing on bags. At 30 second cycle it will pull 29.5 " hg.

 

How do you know you pulled 29.5 hg?  

 

I'm told that's as high as any machine can go and it truly does this, then the VP-112 may be the machine for me.  I'm hesitating because I want to make sure that whichever machine I buy gives me the option to not only seal but compress fruits, do brine infusions, etc



#500 SleeperService

SleeperService
  • participating member
  • 67 posts

Posted 25 January 2014 - 11:42 AM

How do you know you pulled 29.5 hg?  

 

I'm told that's as high as any machine can go and it truly does this, then the VP-112 may be the machine for me.  I'm hesitating because I want to make sure that whichever machine I buy gives me the option to not only seal but compress fruits, do brine infusions, etc

 

 

I've done compression of citrus fruits in my vp112, orange slices turned translucent, I haven't gotten around to doing vacuum infusions yet, but it's on the list ;)



#501 paulpegg

paulpegg
  • society donor
  • 212 posts

Posted 25 January 2014 - 12:14 PM

 

I'm a more than happy owner of a VP-112.  Here's where I bought mine - http://www.homebutch...index&cPath=23.  I purchased the scratch and dent mode lfor $499 shipping included  just about a year ago and you would be hard pressed to find a flaw. It's listed as out of stock.  I have seen it at other sites for around $650.  It may not have all the bells and whistles but it is solid and does the job.  A nice advantage of the 12-inch seal bar is you can seal two 6-inch bags at a time. Great for small portions and reduces wear and tear.  It has the same motor as the VP-210 but can be used on a counter top with  cabinets above.  It is heavy, probably around 60# so you better have a dedicated place to park it.  I have gone through 800-900 cycles to date and it has performed very well.  The bags cost 3-4 cents which is 10x less than seal a meals so it can pay for itself with steady use.  Does a great job on liquids with caveat do not start with the bag to full. Butcher Packer also has very good pricing on bags. At 30 second cycle it will pull 29.5 " hg.

 

How do you know you pulled 29.5 hg?  

 

I'm told that's as high as any machine can go and it truly does this, then the VP-112 may be the machine for me.  I'm hesitating because I want to make sure that whichever machine I buy gives me the option to not only seal but compress fruits, do brine infusions, etc

 

I have never gotten better than 28" Hg on my 6 month old VP112. I ran up to 60 second pulls and the gauge never went over 28". It gets to 28" in 30 seconds and that's it. I guess it will compress citrus but it sure doesn't compress watermelon! It still does everything you need for sous vide which is my primary application. You need an oil filled vacuum pump to pull 29.5" Hg.


Paul Eggermann
Vice President, Secretary and webmaster
Les Marmitons of New Jersey

#502 rotuts

rotuts
  • participating member
  • 5,303 posts
  • Location:Boston MA

Posted 25 January 2014 - 12:28 PM

My 2 cents:

 

I went w the VP-215 for the oil pump. I didnt want to have a non-oil pump fail due to moisture.  it was a bit of a stretch.

 

however, I did have an interesting discussion with the Phllip Fickel at " home butcher " 

 

see ref above.

 

I was considering the VP-112.  may people here love it.  one review at Amazon said they had to replace the cover 3 times in one year.  that gave me pause.

 

I asked Phillip about this and he said that the VP-112 had a tricky hinge system, if you were not careful, the top would not sit 100%

 

properly and that might result in damage to the cover.  if you were aware of this then there would not be a problem

 

I just pass this along as it seems to be useful info for those w the VP-112.

 

Happy Vac !



#503 rotuts

rotuts
  • participating member
  • 5,303 posts
  • Location:Boston MA

Posted 30 January 2014 - 10:31 AM

'Mise en Place' so to speak:

 

VP215.jpg

 

one hairs worth of more weight on this thing would have done me in.

 

Ill add the oil tomorrow and turn it on.  Hopefully it will turn on ...   Its not going anywhere for the

 

foreseeable future.

 

My mother would have said to me, rolling her eyes :  'Your eyes are bigger than your stomach'

 

in this case she would probably be right.

 

BTW in the booklet it says not to VacPack garlic or fungi :

 

" Never vacuum pack garlic or fungi, like mushrooms.  A dangerous chemical takes place when the air is removed "

 

any ideas on what they are getting at?  just garlic by itself ? garlic and fungi together ?


Edited by rotuts, 30 January 2014 - 10:36 AM.

  • DiggingDogFarm and Unpopular Poet like this

#504 horseflesh

horseflesh
  • participating member
  • 40 posts

Posted 30 January 2014 - 10:36 AM

From what I have read, garlic may be contaminated with botulism. You don't want to give it a place to hang out without oxygen.



#505 weedy

weedy
  • participating member
  • 105 posts

Posted 30 January 2014 - 10:37 AM

the concern with garlic is botulism

 

my understanding, and I'm sure I'll be corrected!, is that it's a problem with sealing and storing at room temp

 

I would imagine sealing for sous vide isn't

I know I've certainly seen sous vide recipes with garlic in the bag



#506 rotuts

rotuts
  • participating member
  • 5,303 posts
  • Location:Boston MA

Posted 30 January 2014 - 12:31 PM

Id appreciate some help understanding the dial-indicator on the VP-215

 

Its units are in MPa, megapascal.  I know what a kPa is there fore a MPa is a thousand of those.

 

the dial rests at 0  the goes counter clock wise with the first number being 0.02 then 0.035 to 0.07.

 

this area is highlighted in red.

 

from 0.07 to 0.08 is grey, the from 0.08 it goes to - 0.1.  this area is green.

 

the vacuum is set by time not pressure.  they give you two poly boards to take up dead-space in the chamber to shorten Vac time.

 

it's not clear there is a manual seal should you get to that part of the dial-indicator that 'pleases' you before you reach the set Vac time.

 

so .... what is 95% vacuum  on this type of dial?  I live close enough to sea level so for our purposes I live at 1 Atm.

 

lets forget about high pressure days and low pressure days  (  :wink: )

 

Im assuming that after the chamber 'evacuates' one can keep it at that vac by adding time say for pickles etc.

 

many thanks.

 

tomorrow :  the Oil and the On button !

 

erreur, pardon !   they have a RED ( red is best you see ) button you push during the Vac cycle to immediately

 

seal the pouch.   :biggrin:


Edited by rotuts, 30 January 2014 - 12:40 PM.


#507 rotuts

rotuts
  • participating member
  • 5,303 posts
  • Location:Boston MA

Posted 30 January 2014 - 12:57 PM

I think one of the problems Im having w the VP-215 scale is that it reads in ' Mpa '

 

as the vacuum gets stonger, the Mpa increases

 

the scale should be marked ' - Mpa '  just a guess so far

 

:huh:


Edited by rotuts, 30 January 2014 - 12:59 PM.


#508 rotuts

rotuts
  • participating member
  • 5,303 posts
  • Location:Boston MA

Posted 30 January 2014 - 01:11 PM

Well I called ARY and now have this understanding:

 

at the first part 0f the 'green' area on this dial is about 18 " Hg  =  " 0.08 "   Mpa

 

the lowest part of the 'green' is 29.7 " Hg = ' -0.1 ' Mpa

 

all set now !



#509 kindofgreat

kindofgreat
  • new member
  • 5 posts

Posted 15 February 2014 - 02:59 AM

I just purchased a VP112 and I am wondering if those who have one could help diagnose whether there is a problem with mine or not. I have attached a photo below. My worry is that it doesn't create a perfect seal. I've done a couple dozen for testing, and they all are similar to the image below where you can see gaps in the seal. Often, these gaps are near where the pouch clips/spikes are, but not always. Are these gaps normal? There are items (some cookies) where the next day, it seems like there's more air inside than the night before but maybe this is just normal "bloom" or gas escaping from the cookies? I've also tried sealing a pouch of water, and though there's the same gap in the seal, I can also flip the pouch upside down and squeeze, and no water will leak. So from that, it seems like a good seal. I'm just afraid that if I leave a pouch of food in a water bath for two days, maybe it won't be okay... Also, for whatever reason, my pouch of sealed water has quite a bit of air bubbles in it, even though I pulled a 30 second vacuum. It was enough to get the water bubbling/boiling, but not enough to get all the air out? that's odd. Anyway, I can probably still return the unit to amazon or get a replacement as its only been a couple days. Or is everything operating correctly and I am just paranoid?

 

 

 

 

 

1902188_10101469442881485_1366121375_o.j



#510 rotuts

rotuts
  • participating member
  • 5,303 posts
  • Location:Boston MA

Posted 15 February 2014 - 06:42 AM

the seal should be completely clear and homogeneous.  the crimped areas may be due to the fact the the plastic did not lie completely flat on the bar that heats the plastic.

 

this may be all your technique.  try a few more times   if you get the same thing over and over the call customer support.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Modernist