1821 replies to this topic

[edsel]

I saw the emulsified cheese mentioned on a post about the book (I think it was on Pop Sci) and was afraid it would require some sort of high-tech emulsifier. Glad to hear that the technique can be done with typical kitchen equipment.


I love the possibility of making a full-flavored cheese sauce that doesn't break or turn grainy. I've recently been experimenting with the starch + evaporated milk combo used by Kenji Lopez-Alt. I used a tiny bit of Xanthan and it worked like a charm. I'll have to try the Modernist approach to see how it compares.

[Kent Wang]

Would this be a good way to improve fondue?

[Chris Hennes]

Well, it would allow you to make fondue with cheeses that don't normally work I guess, like this really aged cheddars and goudas. I also think that you can get better flavor release from some of the modernist thickening agents than you can from the starches typically used in fondue, but I don't have the book handy to check that table. Chris A, does the book mention fondue?

[Chris Hennes]

Oh, and that cheese sauce went great on a potato and chorizo hash this morning, so it's not just for mac and cheese...

[infernooo]

Just placed my order via Amazon - really looking forward to this, brilliant work Nathan!

[nathanm]

Here are some answers to questions posed above.

Fondue is basically starch and alcohol/acid added to melted cheese to help stabilize the emulsion.

You can use emulsifying salts (sodium citrate or a phosphate) to do the same thing with no starch, and the flavor is (in our opinion) much better. Starch can have poor flavor release properties.

We do something similar for cheese sauce - we have a cheeze foam (homemade cheese whiz!) and of course the macaroni and cheese made this way.

You can also use various thickeners and gels to help with this (as discussed above we use a bit of iota carrageenan in our mac and cheese) to help texture. Xanthan certainly works, but it is mostly about thickening and most uses of melted cheese the thickness is not the issue - it is already thick but the problem is the emulsion splitting so it gets greasy.

[Kerry Beal]

Oh, and that cheese sauce went great on a potato and chorizo hash this morning, so it's not just for mac and cheese...

Did your cheese sauce ever reach grating consistency? I have kappa carrageenan and one from Xenex that contains kappa and iota - I made a firm block - but wouldn't be able to grate it - crumble it maybe.

[Chris Hennes]

No, though I'm not sure it would crumble, either: it wound up the consistency of clay, even after an overnight rest in the fridge.

[Chris Amirault]

Well, it would allow you to make fondue with cheeses that don't normally work I guess, like this really aged cheddars and goudas. I also think that you can get better flavor release from some of the modernist thickening agents than you can from the starches typically used in fondue, but I don't have the book handy to check that table. Chris A, does the book mention fondue?

Yes, there is a parametric recipe chart on fondue in volume four (223).

This pdf index for the book is very handy, btw. Given the benefits of searching on a text string in a pdf file, it's more useful than the on e at the back of volume five at times.

Edited by Chris Amirault, 18 February 2011 - 09:12 AM.

[JBailey]

Chris Amirault
Chris Hennes

In this thread and others, discussions have been had about buying modernist/special ingredients. Let's start from the beginning. Either in your experience or from Modernist Cuisine, is there a recommmended list of pantry staples, like we already do with sugar, salt, pepper, various spices, et. al.? What are the priorty items, which are most shelf-stable and what are the ones that last longest on a counter or in a freezer? I know the kits are omnibus and probably are a good random selection. Which items do the kits miss that we should be acquiring and what are the unnecessary additions? Are there ingredients we should stock more of and others we could skip until a need arises? Yes, I know those regular spices I stock are based upon my preferences and what I cook, but I guess I am looking for a path through the wilderness.

Finally, are there local places you use if you are missing one item? I looked through Whole Foods and there are bits and pieces, but for the most part they are not a good alternative. Are most of the ingredients best and only available on line?

[Chris Amirault]

I don't have the ability to respond in detail now to this -- the book is at home, and I'm just getting started -- but this topic on kits is a good place to start.

[pedro]

I read in a number of places about MC's workaround for not having a proper brick oven to cook pizza, consisting of putting a 1/4 inch-thick steel sheet and using it instead of a stone. Two questions about that: any steel will do it? would it work for baking bread?

[basquecook]

The promised photos. First, a shot of the potatoes in the FoodSaver bags. They were all trimmed square; if I had been thinking, I would have grated the trim for hash browns at lunch. As I mentioned above, no water in the bags:



A note to the SVS owners: those bags were just barely too big for the SVS, so I had to get two long skewers, poke holes in the top of the bags, and let them sit slightly diagonally from the top. I learned the hard way that big bags lying flat are a nightmare for the temperature controls on the SVS for all obvious reasons.

Meanewhile, here are the steaks getting ready for the smoker along with some other items:



Post-cold smoke (~2h of apple smoke; never got about 50F in the smoker) and trimmed. I am seriously looking forward to using that smoked fat somehow:



I was working quickly -- the steaks were a bit warmer than I'd like -- and I got them into their bags with some black pepper, Aleppo pepper, kosher salt, and a knob of rendered beef fat:



Into my high-tech, super-expensive ice bath:



As I mentioned above, I SVed them at 56C, which was a bit warmer than I'd have liked for the steaks, but I was thinking about our guests. Here they are getting their last marks on a screaming hot grill that I'd sprayed with high-heat Pam:

All of this seems like a lot of fooling around just to cook a steak. Also, if you are going outside to use the smoker, why wouldnt you continue the outside cooking with a grill. it has to get hotter than your home range. Do you think all of this is worth repeating?

Edited by basquecook, 18 February 2011 - 12:57 PM.

[Chris Amirault]

Well, I've been cooking steaks for over 30 years, and my guests have been eating a lot of them. We all agreed that it was the best steak they'd ever had, so I'm going with, "Yeah, it was worth it."

Does that mean that a grill is a bad way to cook steak? Not at all -- and the MC book details how to think about that issue. But when it's 10F outside, it'd be hard to beat this method.

[Kerry Beal]

No, though I'm not sure it would crumble, either: it wound up the consistency of clay, even after an overnight rest in the fridge.

So my mixed kappa and iota gave me about that same consistency. Means I don't have to order yet another molecular ingredient!

[Chris Hennes]

Kerry, I'd be more concerned about the consistency when heated than at fridge temps: does it melt to an appropriately gooey texture?

[Kerry Beal]

Kerry, I'd be more concerned about the consistency when heated than at fridge temps: does it melt to an appropriately gooey texture?

Melted beautifully - rug rat took Molecular Mac and Cheese for lunch today at school!

[Chris Hennes]

Lucky rug rat! I had it for lunch today too: used up the leftover cheese.

[ScottyBoy]

I just can't wait to make this mac and cheese.

It's one of my 3 main comfort foods so for me it's a "thing".

[nickrey]

... I am seriously looking forward to using that smoked fat somehow:

It would be good in sausages.

[Le Master]

How much and what sort of discussion is there of garlic?

[heidih]

I have shied away from this genre with the elitist attitude that it was not "natural". Seeing the mac and cheese and how it was done pus Chris A's comment about other "chemicals" we routinely use has forced a mindset shift. I am going to delve into this. Thank you all.

[ermintrude]

Found this Mac an cheese recipe http://jetcitygastro...ac-cheese-ever/ using maltodextrin instead of Iota

[nickrey]

I read in a number of places about MC's workaround for not having a proper brick oven to cook pizza, consisting of putting a 1/4 inch-thick steel sheet and using it instead of a stone. Two questions about that: any steel will do it? would it work for baking bread?

Although I don't have access to the book anymore, I read that section with interest. Let's see how good my recall is...

The reason that ovens retain heat is because the sides of the oven heat up. The air in the oven is mainly incidental and will heat up fairly rapidly when the door is shut. Hence opening and closing the door causes less damage than most would think (eg. in the questions about basting).

Using a sheet of metal means that you add another source that effectively absorbs and radiates heat, thus making the heat sources in the oven more stable. So in answer to your specific questions: any steel should do as long as it can store and release heat. Secondly, it should be good for bread because of its contribution to the overall heat profile within the oven.

Edited by nickrey, 20 February 2011 - 03:35 AM.

[Chris Amirault]

How much and what sort of discussion is there of garlic?

Several recipes, including parametric recipes for preserving and cooking sous vide.

I read in a number of places about MC's workaround for not having a proper brick oven to cook pizza, consisting of putting a 1/4 inch-thick steel sheet and using it instead of a stone. Two questions about that: any steel will do it? would it work for baking bread?

Although I don't have access to the book anymore, I read that section with interest. Let's see how good my recall is...

The reason that ovens retain heat is because the sides of the oven heat up. The air in the oven is mainly incidental and will heat up fairly rapidly when the door is shut. Hence opening and closing the door causes less damage than most would think (eg. in the questions about basting).

Using a sheet of metal means that you add another source that effectively absorbs and radiates heat, thus making the heat sources in the oven more stable. So in answer to your specific questions: any steel should do as long as it can store and release heat. Secondly, it should be good for bread because of its contribution to the overall heat profile within the oven.

Nick's memory is excellent.

They recommend a piece of steel or aluminum (the latter is much lighter, of course) that is 2 cm -- that is to say, 3/4 in, not 1/4 in -- thick.

[Chris Amirault]

Save for the Pichet Ong gougeres I served as an appetizer, all elements of dinner last night followed MC yet were quite simple: meat and two veg, in fact, all prepared sous vide.

The meat was the 72h 65C brisket that I had smoked and frozen last weekend; I brought it back to temperature in the Sous Vide Supreme and served it sliced with some of the mushroom ketchup I made a few weeks ago.

The potatoes were baby reds, purples, and golds that I cooked at 85C for about an hour with copious amounts of butter, let cool, and then finished with salt, pepper and fresh rosemary in a hot oven. Then we had leeks that I also cooked at 85C: I sliced the green parts into thin ribbons that I tossed with hazelnut oil, and I served the white parts with an excellent sherry vinegar and demerara sugar gastrique to which I added some of the liquid from the brisket bag.

[eG Forums Host]

Those interested in the Modernist Cuisine book should check out this exclusive look at the book, including excerpts and a Q&A with the team!

[eG Forums Host]

Those of you waiting for your books and wanting to get started: check out this parametric recipe for risotto in the MC excerpts topic.

[roygon]

How much and what sort of discussion is there of garlic?

Several recipes, including parametric recipes for preserving and cooking sous vide.

I read in a number of places about MC's workaround for not having a proper brick oven to cook pizza, consisting of putting a 1/4 inch-thick steel sheet and using it instead of a stone. Two questions about that: any steel will do it? would it work for baking bread?

Although I don't have access to the book anymore, I read that section with interest. Let's see how good my recall is...

The reason that ovens retain heat is because the sides of the oven heat up. The air in the oven is mainly incidental and will heat up fairly rapidly when the door is shut. Hence opening and closing the door causes less damage than most would think (eg. in the questions about basting).

Using a sheet of metal means that you add another source that effectively absorbs and radiates heat, thus making the heat sources in the oven more stable. So in answer to your specific questions: any steel should do as long as it can store and release heat. Secondly, it should be good for bread because of its contribution to the overall heat profile within the oven.

Nick's memory is excellent.

They recommend a piece of steel or aluminum (the latter is much lighter, of course) that is 2 cm -- that is to say, 3/4 in, not 1/4 in -- thick.

Has anyone who has high-temperature pizza cooking experience tried this? I use a 2Stone on my grill and it gets up to 800F in about 35 minutes and produces incredible pizzas in a couple of minutes but if this is comparable then it would be quite convenient

rg

[nathanm]

The WSJ article did not mention that we use the broiler element in addition to the main oven element.