1821 replies to this topic

[Chris Amirault]

So here are the short ribs that have been cured, smoked, cooked in brine, and rested:



Off the bone and sliced:



Some Latvian rye bread from the European Deli on Hope St in Providence:



Along with some strong homemade mustard, great pickles from the deli and less-than-great slaw from same, the full meal:



I snuck another layer of pastrami onto the bread after this photo because -- wait for it: Best. Pastrami. Ever.

Like nearly everything in the book I've tried, this pastrami packs more flavor per molecule than anything I've ever had. It's like eating a dictionary definition of pastrami; it's so beefy that you realize, oh, yeah, that's right, pastrami is BEEF.

Part of it is probably the quality of the short ribs, which were from a nearby farm. Part of it was probably using short ribs instead of a brisket. But there's no question that the benefits of SV preparation are on full display here: it's hard to imagine a wisp of flavor making its way out of these short ribs.

The details of the finished product suit me just fine; I might bump the coriander and juniper a bit, cut back on the red pepper. But, really, this is small potatoes. If you had told me a year ago I would be making pastrami that rivals Katz's on the Lower East Side of New York, I'd have said you were nuts. But, honestly, I think that this is much, much better.

[Chris Hennes]

So, I've mentioned a couple times that this stuff is prep work for "The Burger"—that's not quite true. I can't actually make The Burger owing to a spousal objection to mushrooms, and a lack of a chamber vac (or for that matter, tomatoes worth compressing in the first place). So rather, I am making the bun, burger, glaze, and cheese slice. Instead of a mushroom swiss burger, I'm making it a bacon swiss burger: no vegetation involved (lettuce or tomato). So I guess this is the Lite version of The Burger. I still tell myself I'm considering it a warmup round for when I can convince my wife that a) mushrooms are good, and b) a chamber vac is clearly a kitchen necessity.

[Chris Hennes]

If you had told me a year ago I would be making pastrami that rivals Katz's on the Lower East Side of New York, I'd have said you were nuts. But, honestly, I think that this is much, much better.

So, when are you starting to take orders? Where does the line form?

[jsmeeker]

Speaking of orders and take out and what not... How much yield can you get out of using small pieces of meat like a short rib? Do you thing you might try it with a larger cut. Like a brisket some day, to see how it compares?

[Chris Amirault]

I'd love to try it with a good brisket, but that's nearly impossible to find around here for reasons I cannot understand: uneven quality, no deckle, on and on.

Yield is a good question; I'll try to measure next time. Because, oh yes, there will be a next time.

[Chris Amirault]

So, I've mentioned a couple times that this stuff is prep work for "The Burger"—that's not quite true. I can't actually make The Burger owing to a spousal objection to mushrooms, and a lack of a chamber vac (or for that matter, tomatoes worth compressing in the first place). So rather, I am making the bun, burger, glaze, and cheese slice. Instead of a mushroom swiss burger, I'm making it a bacon swiss burger: no vegetation involved (lettuce or tomato). So I guess this is the Lite version of The Burger. I still tell myself I'm considering it a warmup round for when I can convince my wife that a) mushrooms are good, and b) a chamber vac is clearly a kitchen necessity.

Two points:

1. The mushroom ketchup is an umami bomb, more glutamate than mushroom per se. You might want to give it a go and see what she thinks of it. You will likely love it.

2. The intensity implied by nearly everything in the MC book is the only thing that makes this claim sensible: a burger subbing bacon for vegetables is the Lite version.

[weinoo]

I'd love to try it with a good brisket, but that's nearly impossible to find around here for reasons I cannot understand: uneven quality, no deckle, on and on.

Yield is a good question; I'll try to measure next time. Because, oh yes, there will be a next time.

If you can't get a good brisket, then you definitely can't get a good navel, right?

Won't Whole Foods order you a whole brisket?

[Chris Amirault]

WF has supplied wildly uneven briskets to this particular customer, sadly.

[Chris Hennes]

1. The mushroom ketchup is an umami bomb, more glutamate than mushroom per se. You might want to give it a go and see what she thinks of it. You will likely love it.

Thoughts on substitutions for the cane vinegar and the barley malt syrup?

[nickrey]

I snuck another layer of pastrami onto the bread after this photo because -- wait for it: Best. Pastrami. Ever.

Like nearly everything in the book I've tried, this pastrami packs more flavor per molecule than anything I've ever had. It's like eating a dictionary definition of pastrami; it's so beefy that you realize, oh, yeah, that's right, pastrami is BEEF.

Having made this with two different cuts now (a leanish round and beef cheek), I can state categorically that Chris is not exaggerating about the taste.

The cheek was a better texture: I suspect more similar to the ribs that Chris used.

[weinoo]

WF has supplied wildly uneven briskets to this particular customer, sadly.

That sucks. Maybe it's time to hit Lobel's . A bit expensive, but I'll bet they're delicious.

[Chris Amirault]

Thoughts on substitutions for the cane vinegar and the barley malt syrup?

I think I used white vinegar, and I definitely subbed in gum syrup for the barley malt syrup.

[mkayahara]

I'm surprised to hear you're having that much trouble finding barley malt syrup... I thought it was something every health food store carried!

Edit: In fact, I've been surprised at how many "modernist" ingredients are most easily found at health food stores: xanthan gum, xylitol, agave syrup, etc. Which is partly why it's so amusing to hear people decry the "evil food additives" being pushed by proponents of modernist cuisine.

Edited by mkayahara, 05 April 2011 - 06:41 PM.

[Chris Amirault]

Having made this with two different cuts now (a leanish round and beef cheek), I can state categorically that Chris is not exaggerating about the taste.

Nick, what kind of wood did you use to smoke it? I used applewood, which turned out very well. I think hickory, the other choice I have on hand, would have been a bit too much.

[ChrisZ]

Thoughts on substitutions for the cane vinegar and the barley malt syrup?

I have a jar of barley malt syrup I bought for a specific recipe, it smells like vegemite/promite or even Guinness but has the consistency of liquid glucose. I found it in a local deli. I have often wondered if it is the same as maltose syrup?

(and I'm thrilled that my copy of Modernist Cuisine has shipped from Amazon at a time when the Australian dollar is at a record high. I interpret this as karma, and a cosmic sign that the universe intended me to own it...)

[Chris Hennes]

Considering the massive complexity of the mushroom ketchup, I guess I just won't stress overmuch about those two ingredients, though I'll have to hunt them down for round two. I just ran to the store (at 10pm) to get the mushrooms, so I guess I'm in for the ketchup. But I'm still replacing the veg. with bacon.

[emannths]

How about getting either a) malt extract from a homebrew supply store, or b) powdered malt extract used in baking?

Ooo! Or boil down some Malta!

Edited by emannths, 05 April 2011 - 10:15 PM.

[nickrey]

Having made this with two different cuts now (a leanish round and beef cheek), I can state categorically that Chris is not exaggerating about the taste.

Nick, what kind of wood did you use to smoke it? I used applewood, which turned out very well. I think hickory, the other choice I have on hand, would have been a bit too much.

I've been using a blend of mesquite and apple woodchips. I agree that hickory would be too much.

[Mjx]

OK, just popped these beauties into the oven:


Wow, you should smell my house! Slow roasting tomatoes, garlic, and herbs... just about the most soulful food imaginable.

Damn, those are gorgeous...

I thought tallow was rendered suet.

Suet is [from] the fat around the kidneys, and renders harder and whiter than tallow, which comes from... elsewhere on the cow.

Fact is that we used rendered kidney fat for the recipe, and that is what we recommend.

Fat from other cuts will also work, but kidney fat is usually a bit stronger flavor.

If it's rendered carefully (very slowly, over low heat, so you hold off on the Maillard reaction), kidney fat/suet is virtually flavourless. Not hearsay: I've rendered suet a couple of times, and have a large chunk of it in the freezer.

[pazzaglia]

My ode to Modernist Cuisine, in style and content...

Modernist Soft, Medium and Hard "Boiled" Eggs in the pressure cooker


Apologies, and utmost respect to the authors if they already covered pressure cooking eggs in their tome! Thank for sharing so many previews, photos and discussions about the book on these forums.

I ate them up and hope to one day have the opportunity to peruse a copy of the book and read about your pressure cooker/autoclave experiments.

Ciao!

L

Edited by pazzaglia, 06 April 2011 - 03:57 AM.

[Chris Hennes]

Speaking of pressure cooking... I let Chris Amirault talk me into the mushroom ketchup, so first up this morning is making the mushroom broth. It calls for 45 minutes at 21 psi, but my cooker is the sort that only goes up to 15 psi: any advice on how long to cook at 15psi to achieve a similar result?

[AnneN]

This morning I started the pastrami using bone-in short ribs. They're brining for six days, then I'll smoke 'em. Will report back.

Were you able to source Insta Cure #1 locally? I have some short ribs I would like to brine them but don't know where to find Insta Cure. I found it online but it will take a few days to a week to get it. Any suggestions?

[pazzaglia]

Speaking of pressure cooking... I let Chris Amirault talk me into the mushroom ketchup, so first up this morning is making the mushroom broth. It calls for 45 minutes at 21 psi, but my cooker is the sort that only goes up to 15 psi: any advice on how long to cook at 15psi to achieve a similar result?

Chris, 21PSI must be the "turbo speed" setting for Asian pressure cookers! I do not have one but often convert my recipe cooking times (which are written for 15PSI) for my readers with old-style European pressure cookers (that max out a 9PSI) on my Italian language pressure cooking website. Although one might think that you need to double the time that is not true. The relationship between time and pressure is not incremental! Though, as you increase the pressure the internal temperature increases and that shortens the cooking time. Maybe a reader with a PhD can work out a formula for us.

However, a formula would not tell you what I have found from experience: the density of the food also plays a role. If your mushroom broth only calls for mushrooms I would only add an extra 10 minutes of cooking time from 15 to 21 PSI. If you have something really dense in there like chickpeas, then I would increase the cooking time by 20 minutes.

Ciao!

L

[emannths]

The boiling point of water at 21psi is 126.5C, and at 15psi it's 120.5C. If you assuming that the cooking time doubles for each 10C lower in temperature, then you should lengthen the cooking time by about 1.5 times for a total cook time of about 65-70 minutes.

The formula to use is F = 2 ^ [(T2 - T1) / 10], where F is you adjustment factor (multiply this by the specified cooking time to get the actual cooking time), T2 is the specified temperature, and T1 is the actual cooking temp. You can get the boiling point of water at various pressures from Wolfram Alpha--just remember that the pressure rating on the cooker is in ADDITION to one atmosphere of pressure.

[jmolinari]

If you assuming that the cooking time doubles for each 10C lower in temperature

How do you reach that assumption?

[LoftyNotions]

This morning I started the pastrami using bone-in short ribs. They're brining for six days, then I'll smoke 'em. Will report back.

Were you able to source Insta Cure #1 locally? I have some short ribs I would like to brine them but don't know where to find Insta Cure. I found it online but it will take a few days to a week to get it. Any suggestions?

Hi Anne,

I'm not sure where you live, but if you have a butcher / meat market that handles sausage supplies, or smokes their own sausages they might be a source. Another possibility would be a sporting goods or hardware store that carries smokers.

HTH,

Larry

[emannths]

It's a common rule of thumb for how changes in temperature affect the rates of chemical reactions. Absent any other guidance, it's probably the best we've got. If there are other suggestions, I'm all ears. I should note that it's pretty easy to adjust the calculation if you think that the cooking time should increase by some other factor--just change the 2 in the formula to that factor.

[jmolinari]

ok, sounds reasonable. Was just wondering where it came from

[slkinsey]

Are there any home pressure cookers that go up to 21 PSI?

[Chris Hennes]

Dunno, Sam, I thought that was entering autoclave territory.