426 replies to this topic

[Jose Nieves]

Todd,

Yours is their "Top" model and Andrew has a regular one. Any chance you could take some pictures of the knob when pressure has been achieved? Is the quick release as easy to use as they mention?

[Todd in Chicago]

Todd,

Yours is their "Top" model and Andrew has a regular one. Any chance you could take some pictures of the knob when pressure has been achieved? Is the quick release as easy to use as they mention?

I can try to take some pictures later tonight, but I can tell you I used the normal release (not quick), and it seemed like it only took 60 - 90 seconds to be released. It was very - just pull up slightly on the top and twist. Looking back on it, it was very funny how cautious I was with twisting the handles to open the pot.....AFTER the pressure had been released....as if I didn't trust it. Super easy, super simple.

Todd in Chicago

[BarbaraY]

I bought the Wolfgang Puck electric pressure cooker about a year ago. I love corned beef cooked in it as it's our favorite sandwich meat. I also use it for pot roasts, stews, etc. The only vegetables that I find it good for are artichokes. I often see recipes for things like asparagus which I find totally ridiculous as it cooks so fast using normal methods that it would easily overcook under pressure.

As to the cooker itself, I wouldn't buy another as the controls are a pain to program. For instance if you want to cook something for 1 hour it has to be set at 59 minutes. If another minute is added it returns to 0.
Other than that it does the job very well so far. I have retired the ancient Presto that we used for many,many years but don't have the heart to throw it out. I guess if the power were out I could go ahead and cook in it in a pinch.

[Todd in Chicago]

Todd,

Yours is their "Top" model and Andrew has a regular one. Any chance you could take some pictures of the knob when pressure has been achieved? Is the quick release as easy to use as they mention?

Jose...

My Kuhn Rikon Duromatic

Please note that in this video link I am holding my phone (camera) in one hand, so it may look more difficult than it is - but it is really easy. Also, note at the beginning, there really is no sound coming from the pressure cooker once it is up to pressure. The sound in the video is a wonky kitchen exhaust problem. In the middle of the segment I release the valve in "partial", and then to speed the process up I open it in "full". The last segment shows removing top. Sorry for the video, a Martin Scorcese I am not!



Todd in Chicago

[Big Mike]

I just got a used Manttra for $10. I wanted to get a cheap one to play with before going in for a high end model. Nice thing is it has two cooking vessels that both fit the lid; one is 4 quarts and the other is 6.5 quarts.



It is made from aluminum so I'm kind of limited to what I can cook in it. I was going to make ossobuco this weekend but am concerned that the wine and tomatoes will react adversely. What's a good first recipe to test with?

[Food Man Chews]

I've thoroughly enjoyed reading this topic thread, but I am surprised that nobody (unless I missed it) has mentioned the mother of all pressure cookers; the Moroccan Tagine.

Clearly you are very limited in what you can cook, but taking the whole thing to the table and removing the lid in front of guests is awesome. Even Le Creusset and Nigella Lawson are selling them these days.

[OliverB]

I still have to get me a Tagine, they are so pretty , but I'm curious why you would call this a pressure cooker? I've never looked at one close up, but isn't there a hole in the top there? And even w/o a hole, I doubt the lid is heavy enough to create pressure? I thought the idea is more to have steam condensate and drip back onto the food, basting it while slowly cooking away?

I've had my eyes on one of the nice cheap and traditional clay ones for a while....

[Food Man Chews]

There is no hole in the top but the traditional plain ones I have from Morocco have a small hole in the side of the cone that you plug with foil or similar (a primitive blow out valve). The lids are very heavy, believe me, and are more than enough to keep the food under pressure. If you have a tagine that is highly decorated then it hasn't been made for the stove top, so don't use it. And of course your steam condensating method is also very true, but the whole process is speeded up because of the pressure, I'm led to believe.

[EnriqueB]

The only vegetables that I find it good for are artichokes. I often see recipes for things like asparagus which I find totally ridiculous as it cooks so fast using normal methods that it would easily overcook under pressure.

I thought it was not the time but the vitamins & minerals: steaming at high pressure with very short times has been found to be the best way of preserving them, isn't it?

[Jose Nieves]

There is no hole in the top but the traditional plain ones I have from Morocco have a small hole in the side of the cone that you plug with foil or similar (a primitive blow out valve). The lids are very heavy, believe me, and are more than enough to keep the food under pressure. If you have a tagine that is highly decorated then it hasn't been made for the stove top, so don't use it. And of course your steam condensating method is also very true, but the whole process is speeded up because of the pressure, I'm led to believe.

I'm not sure if you could label a tagine a "pressure cooker" since it doesn't increase the pressure inside the vessel. It is a slow-cooker which allows you to add everything in one dish, cover it and then add to hot embers the same way that some people use cast-iron dutch ovens.

[Food Man Chews]

I'm sorry but I don't agree. Just using a normal pan with a tight-fitting lid increases pressure as is demonstated when the lid rises. This is why some lids have vent holes. Similarly with the tagine, whose lid is considerably heavier in proportion to it's base. It may not be as effective as a modern pressure cooker, nevertheless it is one, albeit a primitive one.

[AaronM]

A tagine is not a pressure cooker.

End of Story.


In other news: made some ad-hoc Beef Bourguignon pressure style in about 45 minutes earlier tonight.

Exceptional.

Edited by AaronM, 25 April 2011 - 10:50 PM.

[pazzaglia]

I'm sorry but I don't agree. Just using a normal pan with a tight-fitting lid increases pressure as is demonstated when the lid rises. This is why some lids have vent holes. Similarly with the tagine, whose lid is considerably heavier in proportion to it's base. It may not be as effective as a modern pressure cooker, nevertheless it is one, albeit a primitive one.

A tagine is not a pressure cooker.

End of Story.

If I may interject here... we are talking about two things, a cooking method and a cooking appliance.

In terms of cooking methods- cooking "under pressure" - can include:
- Sous Vide
- Carotccio (packet cooking)
- Slow Cookers
- Moroccan Tajines
- And more!!

All of these cooking methods employ direct and indirect pressure at varying degrees, slow or stop evaporation (sealed or semi-sealed environment), and use the food's own liquid as the primary cooking liquid.

In terms of cooking vessels, the pressure cooker is the pan we know and love who's latest generation cooks at 8-15 PSI, but previous generations cooked at much, much lower pressures.

That is my long way of saying: you are both right.

Now, what has everyone been pressure cooking lately?

Ciao!

L

Edited by pazzaglia, 25 April 2011 - 11:08 PM.

[cbread]

There's pressure, and there's pressure. My large roasting pan has a cover that fits nicely enough that when some moisture wets the juncture between top and bottom, heating the vessel will make a series of small bubbling sounds that signal a very very slight excess pressure inside the vessel.

But, that said, that tiny pressure is by no means enough to raise the boiling point - and thus cooking temperature - in any useful way. To obtain a useful boost over atmospheric pressure requires a sealed system that can hold a lot of pressure, enough pressure to demand a pressure release for safety reasons. Neither tagines nor my roasting pan have the slightest claim to be valid "pressure cooking" vessels.

[Paul Kierstead]

...
All of these cooking methods employ direct and indirect pressure at varying degrees, slow or stop evaporation (sealed or semi-sealed environment), and use the food's own liquid as the primary cooking liquid.

Saying they employ 'pressure' is really stretching for all of your list (including sous-vide, where the food is at atmospheric pressure) except for using a pressure cooking. We could expand the term to mean things like braising as well, but then why bother having different terms? It isn't very useful; restricting instead the term gives common ground for discussion and information.

[Food Man Chews]

Clearly nobody here seems to have used a real tagine with it's primitive valve that is sealed prior to cooking. The Turks also use a clay pot that is sealed with dough after the ingredients are placed inside, that also has a release valve that is sealed with foil. Uskup Kebap I believe it is called, which is placed on an open fire and when cooked is then broken at the table. If that and tagines aren't pressurised cooking then clearly I don't know what I'm talking about.

http://elitguvec.com.../uskupkebap.JPG

Edited by Food Man Chews, 26 April 2011 - 07:07 PM.

[JAZ]

The only vegetables that I find it good for are artichokes. I often see recipes for things like asparagus which I find totally ridiculous as it cooks so fast using normal methods that it would easily overcook under pressure.

For asparagus, yes. But I use mine for beets and sweet potatoes all the time.

[slkinsey]

As to whether a tagine or similar traditionally lidded cooking vessels constitute "pressure cookers," the answer is quite clear: no, they don't. And this is for a simple reason: The point of a pressure cooker is not to increase the pressure. That is a side-effect of the real point of using a pressure cooker, which is to increase the temperature above the boiling point of water. The only way to do that in a "wet cooking" medium is to increase the pressure. For example, the boiling point of water under the 15 psi setting (meaning 15 psi above normal atmospheric pressure) is 122C.

There is simply no way that a clay or ceramic vessel such as a tagine could build up sufficient pressure to raise the boiling point of water any significant amount. And there is a very simple reason why this is so: the tagine would explode because the clay is not capable of withstanding any significant internal pressure. This, of course, is in addition to the fact that foods cooked in a tagine or similar vessel are typically slow-cooked below the simmer, meaning that the temperature is actually lower than 100C. Just because there is some water vapor being produced doesn't mean that the internal pressure is increasing. Similarly, a heavy lid on a pot doesn't even come close to creating enough pressure to raise the boiling point of water an easily-measurable amount. Might the pressure inside a heavy French oven at a full rolling boil be slightly higher than atmospheric pressure. Maybe an infinitesimal amount. But you would need pretty sensitive instruments to measure the difference. More to the point, it wouldn't make a bit of difference to the cooking.


I hope we've laid that to rest. Meanwhile, I'm wondering if anyone has experience pressure cooking with one of these big pressure canners, such as the All American 21.5 quart pressure canner. The reason I'm interested in this is largely for making stock. It's great to take advantage of the fast-cooking aspect of a pressure cooker for making stock, but I'd still much rather make it in large amounts that can be reduced and stored in the freezer. In addition, I'm wondering what the disadvantages might be to making smaller quantities in a larger pressure cooker. For example, if I really only wanted to make 4 quarts of something, would I be able to do this in the big All American? Perhaps with a smaller vessel inside of it? Or would I really need a traditionally-sized pressure cooker for that amount?

[tmjst]

In principle, you could build a pressure cooker that works by using a heavy lid to hold the pressure back.
But it would have to be *really* heavy.

(Warning: Math alert!)
The area of a 10" tagine lid is about 80 square inches, using the famous equation

area = (pi*d^2)/4 = 3.14*(10*10)/4 = 78.5398163 in^2

If you want to use a heavy lid to make a 15psi pressure cooker, the lid would have to weigh 15 pounds for every square inch of lid area:

weight = 80 in^2 * 15 lb/in^2, which is 1200 pounds!!!

That's slightly impractical.

A 10" lid that weighs 1 lb (which is pretty heavy for a lid!) would increase the pressure in the pot by 1 lb/80in^2, or .0125 PSI. Pressure raises the temperature about 22 degrees for every 15 PSI, so this lid would increase the temperature by only about two hundredths of a degree:

22 degrees/15psi*.0125psi = 0.01833 degrees

[pazzaglia]

In principle, you could build a pressure cooker that works by using a heavy lid to hold the pressure back.
But it would have to be *really* heavy.

(Warning: Math alert!)
The area of a 10" tagine lid is about 80 square inches, using the famous equation

area = (pi*d^2)/4 = 3.14*(10*10)/4 = 78.5398163 in^2

If you want to use a heavy lid to make a 15psi pressure cooker, the lid would have to weigh 15 pounds for every square inch of lid area:

weight = 80 in^2 * 15 lb/in^2, which is 1200 pounds!!!

That's slightly impractical.

A 10" lid that weighs 1 lb (which is pretty heavy for a lid!) would increase the pressure in the pot by 1 lb/80in^2, or .0125 PSI. Pressure raises the temperature about 22 degrees for every 15 PSI, so this lid would increase the temperature by only about two hundredths of a degree:

22 degrees/15psi*.0125psi = 0.01833 degrees

You are both incorrectly defining pressure cooking as "cooking at 15 PSI".

Pressure cookers do not operate at only 15 PSI. Most have two, even three settings. Earlier, first generation pressure cookers, only reached 6-8 PSI. I don't think it would be out of the realm of possibility that a a Tajine could at the very least reach 1 PSI - and even that, raises the boiling temperature, albeit not by much, to "pressure cook."

Ciao,

L

[slkinsey]

You are both incorrectly defining pressure cooking as "cooking at 15 PSI".

Pressure cookers do not operate at only 15 PSI. Most have two, even three settings. Earlier, first generation pressure cookers, only reached 6-8 PSI.

I am not defining "pressure cooking" as any such thing. I merely used the 15-psi-above-atmospheric-pressure example to illustrate how much the temperature goes up (22 degrees C!) under that pressure.

The point is not that the food is cooked under "some amount of pressure." Even in an open pan with no lid, everything is already under right around 14.69 psi due to atmospheric pressure. Unless, you know, you're in a very low valley or on a very high hill.

The point is also not that the temperature has been increased. There are lots of ways you can increase the temperature (although not as dramatically as with a pressure cooker) such as adding lots of dissolved solids, etc.

The point is that one uses a special pressure containing (and regulating) cooking vessel to raise the temperature of the cooking medium such that the food cooks in a substantially different way than it would at 100C/14.69 psi. Raising the temperature and pressure of a regular cooking vessel some infinitesimal amount does not constitute "pressure cooking" by the simple fact that the cooking itself is no different than it would be at 100C/14.69 psi. Your argument is like saying that you can deep fry in a tablespoon of oil.

By the way, don't be so sure that these old pressure cookers didn't have a major effect. The cooking temperature at 6 psi over atmospheric would be around 110C. That is a significant difference over cooking at atmospheric pressure at 100C.

I don't think it would be out of the realm of possibility that a a Tajine could at the very least reach 1 PSI - and even that, raises the boiling temperature, albeit not by much, to "pressure cook."

No it wouldn't raise the pressure 1 psi over atmospheric, or anything close to that. But the main problem with your argument is that you are suggesting that if you are somehow able to raise the pressure to 14.70 psi (+0.1 psi) or even to only 14.691 psi (+0.01 psi), then you are "pressure cooking." What if you boil your stew in an open pot but you are in a deep valley below sea level where the atmospheric pressure is naturally higher than 14.69 psi? Is that "pressure cooking"? What about if your local area is experiencing a high pressure weather event? Is that "pressure cooking"? Hey, the pressure in New York City right now is 14.71 psi... I should go home and pressure cook in an open pan right now! These things, by the way, would all change the pressure and the cooking temperature more than your tagine example.

The point of all this is that unless the pressure and temperature are raised sufficiently to make the food cook differently than it would under normal pressure and temperature, it's not "pressure cooking." It's just "cooking." It's also worthy of note that "pressure cooking" is a verb derived from the noun "pressure cooker." Wikipedia has a good definition of "pressure cooking" as "Pressure cooking is a method of cooking in a sealed vessel that does not permit air or liquids to escape below a preset pressure." This doesn't include tagines and parchment, etc.

[pazzaglia]

I hope we've laid that to rest. Meanwhile, I'm wondering if anyone has experience pressure cooking with one of these big pressure canners, such as the All American 21.5 quart pressure canner. The reason I'm interested in this is largely for making stock. It's great to take advantage of the fast-cooking aspect of a pressure cooker for making stock, but I'd still much rather make it in large amounts that can be reduced and stored in the freezer. In addition, I'm wondering what the disadvantages might be to making smaller quantities in a larger pressure cooker. For example, if I really only wanted to make 4 quarts of something, would I be able to do this in the big All American? Perhaps with a smaller vessel inside of it? Or would I really need a traditionally-sized pressure cooker for that amount?

Did you read the post in Cooking Issues about making stock in a canner? Their post includes a very interesting study at how the flavor changes using venting (first generation weight-modifyed and jiggly valves) and non-venting (spring valve) pressure cookers. And how, apparently, you can take it too far and "kill" the flavor.

Ciao,

L

[slkinsey]

Yea, I read that one. I'm not sure how significant I believe those differences are, or rather whether I'm that picky about stock.

[sparrowgrass]

I have a big pressure canner like the one you linked to, and it is great for stock. And when you get done, you put the stock in pint jars and can it.

Mine has a weight that jiggles.

Edited by sparrowgrass, 27 April 2011 - 03:03 PM.

[tmjst]

It's "within the realm of possibility," but you'd still need a very heavy tagine lid. One PSI is not very much, but there's a lot of square inches in the lid. Given the example (10" in diameter), you'd still need an 80-pound lid to get 1 PSI inside the tagine, and even then only if the lid would were unvented.

1 PSI would raise the temperature by a little over 1 degree, which would hardly have an impact on the tagine inside the tagine!

[pazzaglia]

Happy to share a new method with you guys, I posted it in the Cooking techniques forum, but it's about pressure cooking (Admin, Does "Pressure Cooker" merit a tag, yet, since it is also discussed in Modernist Cuisine topic? ;)... here is a link to it if you missed it:

The Scorch Method in Pressure Cooking

Lots of pictures and details.

See you there!

L

[Prawncrackers]

Has anyone tried 'broasting' in their PC? I'd love to try and make some KFC style chicken at home but the thought of pressure deep frying is a little worrying. Though the recipe book you get with the Kuhn Rikon does have a recipe where you kind of shallow fry chicken, has anyone been brave enough to try this method?

[pazzaglia]

Has anyone tried 'broasting' in their PC? I'd love to try and make some KFC style chicken at home but the thought of pressure deep frying is a little worrying. Though the recipe book you get with the Kuhn Rikon does have a recipe where you kind of shallow fry chicken, has anyone been brave enough to try this method?

You can only "pressure fry" in an industrial pressure fryer. This should not be attempted in a "pressure cooker" because they, and their rubber/silicone parts and valves, are not designed to manage the extra high temperatures of oil under pressure. Most pressure cooker manuals recommend against it and in addition to the danger you put yourself in by being scalded, there is a true risk of explosion of super-heated oil that could then catch fire and put your home in danger.

Do not even try pressure frying in your pressure cooker.

Sorry.

Industrial Pressure Fryers look like this. Fagor makes (or made) a stove-top version, but it is named and marketed as a "pressure fryer" and not a "pressure cooker" and not to be confused with a "pressure fry pan" which is basically a low, wide pressure cooker shaped like a fry pan but is not a pressure fryer, either.

Ciao,

L

Edited by pazzaglia, 04 May 2011 - 12:17 PM.

[LindaK]

Interrupting the experts for a report by a pressure cooker novice.

I purchased a Fagor Duo and finally got around to giving it a test drive. I kept things very simple so I could pay attention to the equipment, not the recipe. Did I mention that I was afraid? Expecting explosions at any moment? I must have read the user manual twice before even trying. Warning: excessive description below for the benefit of other fearful newbies.

My maiden voyage with cannellini beans last night was only semi-successful due to cowardice on my part. Nervous about the cooker, nervous about using it on my high BTU range. As a result, I kept the heat too low and got spooked by steam coming out from around the operating valve, which I had not expected. The pressure indicator didn’t move, even after 5 minutes. Fearing malfunction, I shut off the heat and just let it sit for a while before opening the pot. To my surprise, the beans were almost cooked through, needing only a little more time on the stove to become tender.

A little internet research and re-reading of the manual helped me realize that the steam release was normal. So today, I bravely tried again with some risotto. This time, I fearlessly began by using medium high heat on one of my mid-BTU burners (15K) and ignored the steam (note: there really wasn’t that much). Big difference. The pressure indicator popped up in under 2 minutes (I used a timer), and the steam release stopped completely. I turned the heat to its lowest setting. Still cautious, I recalled the instructions to continue on the lowest possible heat setting w/out losing pressure. So I moved the cooker to my simmer burner and finished it there. Six minutes later, I had risotto. It still needed the last step of beating it with a little butter and cheese, but the final result was delicious. Not quite as creamy as the traditionally cooker version, but perfectly al dente, not overcooked at all.

Very exciting! Next try will be stock.

[Chris Amirault]

After spending the better part of an afternoon waiting for chana dal to cook, I threw in the towel and ordered this Presto 6Q stainless steel pressure cooker. Given the recent outlay for MC-related purchases, I decided to go inexpensive at first. Photos and info to follow.