44 replies to this topic

[rebgold]

Has anyone made the Meltaways from the Greweling book? What is the purpose of tabling the mixture? You can't temper peanut butter, and they're covered in powdered sugar for handling so you can't tell if they're perfectly shiny. I was wondering if it's just a question of agitating the mixture while the fat molecules are doing their thing in the cooling process, why can't you just put it in a mixer with the paddle on low speed? Wouldn't that essentially do the same thing?
I was wondering the same thing about a small batch of cream centers, instead of using the giant ball mixer which takes 30 minutes to clean, could you add the whipping agent and cool them while they thicken in the Hobart?

Thanks,
Reb

[lebowits]

Tabling agitates the chocolate promoting crystallization. Doing so, shortens the time until the slab is firm enough to cut. If you don't wish to table the ganache, you can leave it overnight in the frame and it should be fine by morning.

[rebgold]

Actually I discovered today that you can throw it in the Hobart on number 1 with the paddle and keep an eye on it until it's not ribboning any more then throw it in a pan in the freezer and cut it within an hour, woot!


`

[Kerry Beal]

I've had meltaway act like non tempered chocolate and not firm up after a night in the frame. I've taken to agitating over a bowl of cold water until it starts to crystallize, then pour in the frame.

[rebgold]

So while we're all here, thought I'd ask you two another question. At our shop we make the crem center mix, dry it a bit for a couple of days, then cut off strips, roll them into little balls and the dippers hand dip them. It all takes a very long time and during the busy seasons they can't keep up with all the dipping. This strikes me as a very antiquated way to get the job done. We don't have any new fangled equipment and I doubt that it's in the budget right now, but is there still a better way? What about coating the inside of bon bon molds with choc, letting it set, dropping the cream ball in and filling the rest of the way with chocolate?
How is it usually done? How do you two do it?

Thanks,
Reb

[Kerry Beal]

So while we're all here, thought I'd ask you two another question. At our shop we make the crem center mix, dry it a bit for a couple of days, then cut off strips, roll them into little balls and the dippers hand dip them. It all takes a very long time and during the busy seasons they can't keep up with all the dipping. This strikes me as a very antiquated way to get the job done. We don't have any new fangled equipment and I doubt that it's in the budget right now, but is there still a better way? What about coating the inside of bon bon molds with choc, letting it set, dropping the cream ball in and filling the rest of the way with chocolate?
How is it usually done? How do you two do it?

Thanks,
Reb

That would be more like molding - don't think I'd bother to form the balls, just make the shell in the bon bon mold, use a piping bag to pipe in the filling while it's still liquid, let sit over night then cap off. You'd have to do some studies to see which way is faster per finished unit.

[rebgold]

I don't think it's soft enough for long enough to do that. Once the whipping agent is added they firm up in about 5 minutes in the ball mixer. We'd have to reformulate the filling and I don't think they'll want to do that. Our shop has been open since 1882 and we're using the original recipes.
But, say they would be open to it, could it be as simple as lowering the temperature the sugar-corn syrup mixture is cooked to before it goes in the ball mixer with the fondax?

[rebgold]

Oh yeah, do you know a whole sale supplier of coconut fat? Can't find it in the Albert Uster catalog, we're getting it at a health food store, retail price.

[Kerry Beal]

Oh yeah, do you know a whole sale supplier of coconut fat? Can't find it in the Albert Uster catalog, we're getting it at a health food store, retail price.

I'd contact Bunge oils and see if they can find you a local distributor. Burke candy in their ingredient section also lists coconut oil.

Edited by Kerry Beal, 23 December 2010 - 05:33 PM.

[ShonaM]

I always table my meltaways, the only time I didnt it took ages to set and the texture was really grainy - suggesting incorrect crystallisation I guess. My meltaway slabs usually firm up pretty quick, but then I do live in Scotland so dont really need a fridge!

[rebgold]

Hopefully it wasn't just beginners luck that the Hobart worked so well, lol. I've never been taught how to table properly, just trying to copy the technique in the book, but I feel like it takes so long and I worry that I wasn't doing right. Do any of you have an opinion on whether using a paddle accomplishes the same thing in an acceptable way?

[Kerry Beal]

Hopefully it wasn't just beginners luck that the Hobart worked so well, lol. I've never been taught how to table properly, just trying to copy the technique in the book, but I feel like it takes so long and I worry that I wasn't doing right. Do any of you have an opinion on whether using a paddle accomplishes the same thing in an acceptable way?

I've used the paddle to make fondant instead of tabling it - should work fine.

[cmflick]

How would you know that you're done if using a mixer with a paddle instead of tabling?

[rebgold]

I stopped it when it stopped streaking and was slightly thickened but not setting up on the sides of the bowl. I'd say about 10 minutes.

On another subject, is the fondant in Greweling's recipes the same thing as the fondant you roll out for cakes? Hope that's not a completely stupid question, but I'm new to candy making and pretty much learning on my own.

[Darienne]

I stopped it when it stopped streaking and was slightly thickened but not setting up on the sides of the bowl. I'd say about 10 minutes.

On another subject, is the fondant in Greweling's recipes the same thing as the fondant you roll out for cakes? Hope that's not a completely stupid question, but I'm new to candy making and pretty much learning on my own.

Dear rebgold,

There are NO stupid questions on this forum...and if there were, I am probably the one to ask them. I like to think of myself as a fearless ambassador for the timid.

[cmflick]

I stopped it when it stopped streaking and was slightly thickened but not setting up on the sides of the bowl. I'd say about 10 minutes.

Sounds like about the same amount of time that I beat with the paddle when I made fondant using Greweling's recipe. I'll have to give it a try. Thanks for the clarification.

[Kerry Beal]

I stopped it when it stopped streaking and was slightly thickened but not setting up on the sides of the bowl. I'd say about 10 minutes.

On another subject, is the fondant in Greweling's recipes the same thing as the fondant you roll out for cakes? Hope that's not a completely stupid question, but I'm new to candy making and pretty much learning on my own.

Nope - different fondant for candy than for cakes. And not a stupid question at all! If we all knew everything there would be no need to chat with each other and that would be such a shame.

[rebgold]

True!
So, our recipe book of ancient recipes has a fondant that calls for sugar, corn syrup and boric acid. Is that candy making fondant? If not, can anyone share a recipe with me for fondant for candy? Greweling's has fondant in it, to seed it I assume, but can you make fondant without fondant? lol

Thanks,
Rebecca

[Kerry Beal]

True!
So, our recipe book of ancient recipes has a fondant that calls for sugar, corn syrup and boric acid. Is that candy making fondant? If not, can anyone share a recipe with me for fondant for candy? Greweling's has fondant in it, to seed it I assume, but can you make fondant without fondant? lol

Thanks,
Rebecca

I would assume it is. The one I have just calls for water, glucose and sugar - no acid component. You can make fondant without fondant - that's where the tabling comes in to produce the seed.

Here is the recipe I have from Belgian Chocolate by Roger Geerts

Fondant

1 kilogram sugar
300 grams water
150 grams glucose or corn syrup

1. Add sugar to water, bring to boil. Add glucose and boil to 115 centigrade(soft fondant), 118 (strong). Pour into bowl of kitchen-aid with paddle attachment. Cool to 40 degrees. Start mixing at low speed until you see it begin to crystallize.
2. Alternately pour out onto marble slab after cooking, start agitating when reaches 40 C.

[rebgold]

Ok, so when you table you're just sort of moving it around back and forth with bench scrapers? How do you know exactly when you're done?

[Kerry Beal]

Ok, so when you table you're just sort of moving it around back and forth with bench scrapers? How do you know exactly when you're done?

It starts to get creamy, opaque and firm.

[rebgold]

My next question is; Is there an advantage to using glucose instead of corn syrup? If they're interchangeable what makes one better than the other? Is glucose less expensive?

[Kerry Beal]

My next question is; Is there an advantage to using glucose instead of corn syrup? If they're interchangeable what makes one better than the other? Is glucose less expensive?

Glucose is made from corn or sometimes other sugars, so glucose may be equal to corn syrup depending on where you get it. Corn syrup from the store has more water added and often vanilla flavour as well. Using it requires boiling off more water to get to the temperature of the recipe.

I buy glucose in 50 lb pails - so it is considerably less expensive that way.

[rebgold]

Our corn syrup comes in 50 lb buckets and has almost no water in it, and no flavorings, so I assume just about the same thing. The consistency of heavy glue.

[Kerry Beal]

Our corn syrup comes in 50 lb buckets and has almost no water in it, and no flavorings, so I assume just about the same thing. The consistency of heavy glue.

Yup - that's the stuff I use.

[rebgold]

I made your fondant recipe today. I think it turned out fine, but I have nothing to compare it to. I stirred once while it was cooling and it crystalized, but you didn't mention anything about not stirring so I assume that doesn't matter since you paddle it anyway?
I'm going to use it for the dipped mint patties and maybe lemon logs from Greweling's book tomorrow. I guess I'll be able to compare the finished product with his pictures.

[cmflick]

Can you enrobe mint meltaways in chocolate? I thinking that they may get too soft while dipping because of the coconut fat.

[Kerry Beal]

Yup you can - over time there does tend to be some fat creepage - so enrobe in either milk chocolate or dark chocolate with some milk chocolate added in to make it more resistant to the fat bloom.

[rebgold]

How much chocolate would you add the milk? Can you combine them when they're melted or temper them together?
My fondant turned out grainy. Apparently I shouldn't have touched it while it cooled. I made some enrobed mint patties with it anyway and added invertase hoping that it would smooth out the graininess when it started converting the sugar, but just a small batch in case it's garbage.

[Kerry Beal]

It will likely smooth out with the invertase. I'd probably add about 5% or so of milk chocolate to the dark. I usually temper them together.