60 replies to this topic

[Wholemeal Crank]

Put together a photo set documenting the process on my flickr site here.


Chocolate chantilly by debunix, on Flickr

I think I've got it. Thanks, teonzo, for your patience and detailed replies.

[rjchew]

Hey everyone,
I've been experimenting with some chocolate chantilly recipes, they're really great and it also freezes nicely to something-like-ice cream. I was looking to try and find a more neutral tasting fat base rather than chocolate, so the flavour of the liquid would be maximising. I came across this recipe for beurre chantilly/chantilly butter, but struggled to make it. I was wondering if anyone had any experience of making this, or knew of other fat bases that could be used to make the mousse?

EDIT: forget the recipe links!
http://www.pierre-ga...3/chantilly.htm
http://www.pierre-ga...e_chantilly.htm
In French but google translate works well

Edited by rjchew, 02 April 2011 - 02:07 AM.

[mkayahara]

Milk fat in the form of soft cheeses (such as Brie) and foie gras fat have reportedly been used in the past, though I've never had enough extra foie kicking around to give it a whirl. It seems to me the other important factor is an emulsifier: chocolate, for example, already has lecithin included as an ingredient. I'm not sure a pure fat would work (though I believe butter has natural emulsifiers in it, too). I tried it once with deodorized cocoa butter, and couldn't get it to work.

[...tm...]

As chance would have it, I just made this for the first time last night. I used the recipe quoted at the beginning of the thread, (200 g water/225 g chocolate), but first read the directions here: http://projects.wash...ate-chantilly/. One of the hints from the article that I believe helped my beginners success was to whip on ice, but remove from ice while it is still a little loose, then whip off ice until it has reached the desired texture. This likely achieves the same result of not overchilling the chocolate as just whipping after refrigerating as someone upthread suggested but fits in better with my impatience/erratic refrigerator.
I made it with chocolate of unknown provenance (actually, from my neighbors' basement, labelled 62% chocolate, given to me in a trade for loquats) and the texture was outstanding. Extraordinary melt-in-your mouth capabilities, and very mousse-like at Northern California room temperatures.

[Emily_R]

Thanks for bumping this thread up -- it inspired me to try it tonight. Made it with 90 grams of Callebaut 60%, which I figured was around 1/3rd fat content, so 30 grams of fat. I added another 90 grams of liquid to that -- almost all water, with one tablespoon of grand marnier. Worked like a charm -- whipped into basically the consistency of thicker whipped cream (not quite as airy a mousse as the photos posted by others here, but still a pretty great consistency. Super super rich though. Very cool trick!

[avaserfi]

I tried this out tonight on a whim. 120 grams of 60% Callebaut Thick Bittersweet Bits and 90 grams of cold water. I added a little cinnamon and chipotle powder to the melted chocolate. Whipped until thickened (no bowl of ice needed) and it turned out great. Next time I will whip it a little longer to get it slightly more firm, but it was a hit. Most people probably wouldn't even know it is just a water/chocolate mixture.

[jrshaul]

When preparing chocolate, the one hard-and-fast rule is to avoid adding water. Even ambient moisture can make pounds of gourmet chocolate permanently sieze, leaving a horrible grainy mess. The only way I know to fix it is to add huge amounts of coconut cream, which makes a sort of rubbery truffle.

However, I've seen several recipes for a chocolate "chantilly cream", consisting of chocolate and water, milk, or orange juice which are blended together. In theory, this shouldn't work; in reality, it looks excellent. Is this dependent on the emulsifiers in the chocolate, or is it a manual emulsion via whipping? Also, does anyone know if it works with white chocolate and/or an iSi whip?

[Tri2Cook]

Chocolate doesn't like a little moisture. When a large amount comes barging in, the chocolate admits defeat and does what it's told.

[pastrygirl]

Chocolate doesn't like a little moisture. When a large amount comes barging in, the chocolate admits defeat and does what it's told.

Precisely. Pure chocolate is a system of solids suspended in fat. A little liquid doesn't fit into the equation, so the chocolate seizes. Add enough liquid, and you then have a system of fat and solids suspended in liquid. There is nothing magic about coconut cream to make ganache out of seized chocolate, it's just a matter of enough liquid, any liquid.

I think of chocolate chantilly cream as essentially replicating dairy heavy cream. Whipping cream is around 36-40% fat, as is couverture chocolate. If you mix 100g Cacao Barry Fleur de Cao at 41.8% fat with 100 g water, voila, you have the equivalent fat of heavy cream plus some cocoa solids and sugar. It does work in an ISI whip. I have not tried white chocolate, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Edited by pastrygirl, 17 January 2012 - 06:12 PM.

[minas6907]

Thats why its possible to make yummy hot chocolate. It would be a different story if you put a half oz of milk into a mass of chocolate.

[Jenni]

Oh you bastards. I googled this chantilly thing and now I want it! But I'm in a country where there isn't a particularly wide range of different chocolates easily available, and certainly this little town doesn't have much beyond a bit of Cadbury's. Will it work with Bournville? I know I can get that....otherwise I think I may have seen some kind of 70% Cadbury's but I'm pretty sure it had almonds and things in it so that won't work. Damn you all!

[Kerry Beal]

Oh you bastards. I googled this chantilly thing and now I want it! But I'm in a country where there isn't a particularly wide range of different chocolates easily available, and certainly this little town doesn't have much beyond a bit of Cadbury's. Will it work with Bournville? I know I can get that....otherwise I think I may have seen some kind of 70% Cadbury's but I'm pretty sure it had almonds and things in it so that won't work. Damn you all!

Should work with the Bournville.

[jrshaul]

Thanks for the explanation.

Precisely. Pure chocolate is a system of solids suspended in fat. A little liquid doesn't fit into the equation, so the chocolate seizes. Add enough liquid, and you then have a system of fat and solids suspended in liquid. There is nothing magic about coconut cream to make ganache out of seized chocolate, it's just a matter of enough liquid, any liquid.

Coconut cream (as removed from the top of the can of coconut milk) is at least 70% fat, and you don't need much to get the chocolate to re-emulsify. It's theoretically possible to do the same thing with butter to save a ganache, but I've never been able to pull it off.

Edited by jrshaul, 17 January 2012 - 08:54 PM.

[Edward J]

For what it's worth, there is very little emulisifiers in chocolate.

True, there is soy lecithin in most couvertures,* but this is added in dosages of under .5%. The main reason soy lecethin is added is not to "emulsify", (you need water phase to make an emulsion, and there is no, "0%", diddly squat, water in chocolate), but in small amounts, this dosage of soy lecthin mimics the addition of more cocoa butter. In other words, it is added to make the chocolate more fluid. If dosages exceed .5% the chocolate thickens up waaay too much.

* Some of the real expensive couvertures, a.k.a. Cluizel, Felchlin, etc, have no soy lecethin added. The couverture is expensive enought that more cocoa butter can be added for fluid properties.

[Lisa Shock]

I like to add a small amount of chocolate extract to help boost the chocolate flavor.

[Edward J]

Why not use a higher quality chocolate, i.e. one that has a higher percentage of cocoa and less sugar for flavour boosting?

I am highly suspicious of any chocolate extracts, as I am highly suspicious of "wine extracts"

[Lisa Shock]

I make my chocolate extract from Felchlin.

I add it because the cream itself doesn't add much flavor.

[minas6907]

How do you make a chocolate extract?

[Lisa Shock]

To make chocolate extract, get some grain alcohol. EverClear is one brand. I use the 190 proof because it's available in my state. In some states, you may only have access to the 151 proof, which I have not tested.

I usually use about 8 ounces of EverClear to 2 oz of chocolate. You can experiment with types. I freeze the chocolate so that it's easier to handle, then I grate it with a fine Microplane. Mix the two together and store at room temperature, under 80 degrees for a few weeks, shaking the mix every day.

It will get cloudy, I have not been able to fix this even though I have tested several types of filtration, the clouds keep coming back. But, no one cares when you just cook with it. Anyway, just strain and use. I often just keep the chocolate in the jar, since it sinks to the bottom and is presumably adding flavor.

I have tested this process (as part of making chocolate liqueur which has repeatedly failed due to cloudiness) with cocoa and found that chocolate gave a much better flavor. The ones made with cocoa seemed one-dimensional and flat, the ones with chocolate were far more complex. I think the alcohol pulls some flavor compounds from the cocoa butter. I tried some very good cocoas: several Guittards, and a couple other high end samples I received at trade shows. It was just never as good as the chocolate from the same manufacturer.

Anyway, I use Felchlin Grand Cru now because I like it and have access to it.

The end product is a high-alcohol pure flavor that can be added to various things to give chocolate flavor or boost chocolate flavor. Be aware that if you want to taste it, you should water down your tasting sample so that you don't 'burn' your mouth. Never drink pure grain alcohol as it can kill the cells in the mouth and throat causing a great deal of damage.

Hope this helps!

[Kerry Beal]

To make chocolate extract, get some grain alcohol. EverClear is one brand. I use the 190 proof because it's available in my state. In some states, you may only have access to the 151 proof, which I have not tested.

I usually use about 8 ounces of EverClear to 2 oz of chocolate. You can experiment with types. I freeze the chocolate so that it's easier to handle, then I grate it with a fine Microplane. Mix the two together and store at room temperature, under 80 degrees for a few weeks, shaking the mix every day.

It will get cloudy, I have not been able to fix this even though I have tested several types of filtration, the clouds keep coming back. But, no one cares when you just cook with it. Anyway, just strain and use. I often just keep the chocolate in the jar, since it sinks to the bottom and is presumably adding flavor.

I have tested this process (as part of making chocolate liqueur which has repeatedly failed due to cloudiness) with cocoa and found that chocolate gave a much better flavor. The ones made with cocoa seemed one-dimensional and flat, the ones with chocolate were far more complex. I think the alcohol pulls some flavor compounds from the cocoa butter. I tried some very good cocoas: several Guittards, and a couple other high end samples I received at trade shows. It was just never as good as the chocolate from the same manufacturer.

Anyway, I use Felchlin Grand Cru now because I like it and have access to it.

The end product is a high-alcohol pure flavor that can be added to various things to give chocolate flavor or boost chocolate flavor. Be aware that if you want to taste it, you should water down your tasting sample so that you don't 'burn' your mouth. Never drink pure grain alcohol as it can kill the cells in the mouth and throat causing a great deal of damage.

Hope this helps!

Wonder how this would work with chocolate nibs?

[Lisa Shock]

I have never tried it with nibs, but it should work. Obviously, choose a good type that you like, and crush them to break them down a bit, you want as much surface area as possible since they are dense. (unlike fruit or flower petals which are very permeable)

[jrshaul]

The Cooking Issues guys had success with chocolate nibs. I'm hoping to try it myself.

[jrshaul]

I made some chocolate chantilly cream today, and it all got stuck in the isi whip. Did I shake it too much?

[Tri2Cook]

I made some chocolate chantilly cream today, and it all got stuck in the isi whip. Did I shake it too much?

If you had any bits of chocolate that didn't completely melt, they'll plug it up. Other than that, I'm not sure. I made it (and variations of it) a few years ago just to be sure I could and haven't done it since but I didn't use a cream whipper to do it.

[pastrygirl]

If it has solidified in the ISI, try dipping the canister in warm water and shaking to melt the mass. I've found it to be very temperature sensitive.

[ChrisZ]

Returning to the original question, this video from Valrhona describes some of the issues of emulsifying chocolate when making ganache.

Judging from the comments made when that video was originally posted, some of their claims are a bit confusing, but it's an interesting video anyway...

[Jenni]

Ok, I went on a chocolate expedition. Bournville turns out to be Rs.80 for 80g!!!!! Plus I looked at the packet and it says it's only 44% cocoa content which sounds pretty crap, so I left that. I did see another option today in the form of "Choco Swiss Cacao Premium Dark Chocolate". I immediately bought it and upon getting home I regretted it even more immediately. First of all I thought it was 120g which made me feel slightly better about paying Rs.90 (still cheaper than the bourneville when you go gram for gram!) but confusingly there are two labels on the packet and one of them says it is just 60g! Plus it doesn't list the cocoa content anywhere on the packet.

In addition to this entirely stupid development, I remembered that I don't have a scale with me. All the recipes I have found on google seem pretty crazily precise so that could be a problem. And I don't have a whisk. Hell, I don't even have a fork! All in all, I am annoyed, and I may now go and eat 60-120g of chocolate (of undetermined cocoa content) to make myself feel better.

[Lisa Shock]

You'll do ok with volume measurement for the cream. You know the weight of the chocolate from the label, so, you're good to go.

[jrshaul]

I made some chocolate chantilly cream today, and it all got stuck in the isi whip. Did I shake it too much?

If you had any bits of chocolate that didn't completely melt, they'll plug it up. Other than that, I'm not sure. I made it (and variations of it) a few years ago just to be sure I could and haven't done it since but I didn't use a cream whipper to do it.

The mousse whipped up fine. The problem was that the foamed mousse was all in the ISI whip instead of going out the nozzle as originally intended. Very frustrating.

[Darienne]

I just made the Chantilly Cream recipe. 'The Best Chocolate Mousse of Your Life in Under 5 Minutes, Herve This and Heston Blumenthal. I can't believe it. It's incredible. It blows me away with its creamy deliciousness. I think I'm in love.