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Jacques Genin Caramels

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148 replies to this topic

#121 dhardy123

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 10:36 PM



Can you give us the formula? I'm rather curious now.


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Dave, is this the book that you referred to above?

http://www.amazon.co...44738044&sr=1-2


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#122 minas6907

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 01:04 AM

I wish I could read French, darn.

#123 RoundedUp

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 04:26 PM

We might be getting closer to Genin recipe.

Apparently the recipe for the famous mango-passion fruit caramels was shown on some french tv.

However I couldn't find the video. The recipe is online though:

http://www.cuisine-p...-la-mangue.html

 

It was tested by a blogger too, whose recipe however is slightly different at the end:

http://patiseb.canal...4/28014613.html

 

Unfortunately it seems something tailored for people with almost no experience (and no thermometer).

I guess the last cooking time is the usual one to get around 120°C. But what about the first one? Is it just a reduction? Any clue?

 

 



#124 mostlylana

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 08:20 PM

We might be getting closer to Genin recipe.

Apparently the recipe for the famous mango-passion fruit caramels was shown on some french tv.

However I couldn't find the video. The recipe is online though:

http://www.cuisine-p...-la-mangue.html

 

It was tested by a blogger too, whose recipe however is slightly different at the end:

http://patiseb.canal...4/28014613.html

 

Unfortunately it seems something tailored for people with almost no experience (and no thermometer).

I guess the last cooking time is the usual one to get around 120°C. But what about the first one? Is it just a reduction? Any clue?

 

 

 

I wonder if this is HIS recipe??  I can't see any mention of him...



#125 RoundedUp

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 11:30 AM

Here we are:

http://www.cuisine-p...ques-genin.html

 

So I am pretty sure it is his recipe. However it may have been modified for TV/amateur reasons.


Edited by RoundedUp, 12 February 2014 - 11:35 AM.


#126 mostlylana

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 09:58 PM

Here we are:

http://www.cuisine-p...ques-genin.html

 

So I am pretty sure it is his recipe. However it may have been modified for TV/amateur reasons.

 

Good sleuthing!  I looked for it and couldn't find the source.  That's awesome!  Thanks so much for posting the recipe.  

As for cooking temps... when I make caramels I add the butter just before the caramel comes to temp.  This practice seems common in french caramels.  

I wouldn't take it to 120C - I think that might be too high.  I've never made a fruit caramel but Genin's are soooo soft.

That recipe is funny - it says for 4 people - HA!  That's a lot of caramel for 4 people. 

Also note that google doesn't translate  tenant l’ébullition  properly.  It means 'a light boil'.  Long cooking time at a lower temp will help prevent too much flow in the caramels.


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#127 Tammi Townsley

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 06:32 PM

I would love to try the Genin caramels. Thanks for the link.

#128 curls

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 08:25 AM

A new link to the Jacques Genin caramels... still in French.

http://www.duracuire...-jacques-genin/



#129 mike.cookbook

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 10:51 PM

Hi everybody, 

 

The last link posted is a link to my blog (http://www.duracuire...-jacques-genin/) where i tested the Génin recipe for passion/mango caramels. I can try to help with the translation if necessary and share my experience with making those caramels. Unfortunately, i could'nt tell you how close to the original recipe it can get, since i never tasted the original ones (i live in the south of France, long way to Paris). I will taste them for sure next time i go to Paris...

 

Mike (www.duracuire.fr)


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#130 Kerry Beal

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 08:36 AM

Welcome Mike!



#131 RoundedUp

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 12:27 PM

Dear all,

 

Patiseb has updated the recipe, now there are temperatures showing up:

 

http://patiseb.canal...4/28014613.html

 

I wish I knew french enough to send an email and ask for details...



#132 HQAntithesis

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 07:52 AM

Translation:

 

Recipe taken from site: 'Cuisine Plus'

Recette tirée du site "Cuisine Plus"

For approximately 100 caramels

Pour environ 100 caramels

 

750g liquid cream (assumed to be 35% fat cream - doesn't specify)

750g de crème liquide

500g passionfruit juice (literally translates to juice, probably meant to say puree?)

500g de jus de passion

500g mango juice (literally translates to juice, probably meant to say puree?)

500g de jus de mangue

2.5 vanilla beans

2.5 gousses de vanille

125g glucose

125g de glucose

900g sugar

900g de sucre cristal

250g butter

250g de beurre

 

In a large casserole, mix the cream, the fruit juices, the vanilla (opened), the glucose and the sugar.

Dans une grande casserole, mélanger la crème liquide, les jus de fruits, les bâtons de vanille ouverts en deux, le glucose et le sucre.

 

Cook to 110C.

Cuire à 110°C.

 

Off the fire, add the fire and recook to 121C.

Ajouter alors le beurre hors du feu puis recuire à 121°C.

Pour into a tray the size of a plaque. (dimensions unknown)

Verser dans un cadre de la taille d'une plaque.

Allow to cool to room temperature then place in the fridge for a few hours.

Laisser refroidir à température ambiante puis laisser au frais quelques heures.

 

Unmould then cut the soft caramels.  Wrap them in florist's paper.
Démouler puis découper les caramels mous et les emballer dans du papier de fleuriste.



#133 psantucc

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 05:48 PM

Many thanks for the translation. I will have a go as soon as possible; I'd really like to work some variations on the theme.


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#134 Jim D.

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Posted 08 June 2015 - 02:21 PM

I have read through this entire thread (and another one on the same subject) but am left hanging at the end.  Supposedly Jacques Genin's actual recipe for his famous passion fruit mango caramels was found (in English, post of July 24, 2014).  Did anyone ever try this recipe and find out how it compared to the original?  Meanwhile another poster (Schneich) came up with a recipe that produced results similar to Genin's but using sorbitol and lecithin.  I'm wondering if anyone has followed up on this effort to make a caramel that is very soft yet can still be cut.  I bring this up because my first effort at "stand-alone" caramels (not piped into molds) tasted OK (I used some cherry flavoring) but was too firm; I think I overcooked it by 1 or 2 degrees--it's very difficult, I discovered, to get all the caramel in the pot to the same temp simultaneously.



#135 chanjying

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 04:39 PM

I tried it several months ago. I've had Genin's passionfruit mango caramels many a time--I think the flavor compares quite favorably and it was very soft yet could still be cut. One thing I remember not liking about the recipe was that it was a bit oily/buttery on the surface. Could be because butter over here is not the same as over there.

 

In response to someone's question if jus was the same as puree, I'm quite sure it is yes for these cases. In any case, that is what I used and what is usually used in France. 


Edited by chanjying, 15 June 2015 - 04:40 PM.


#136 Jim D.

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 04:19 AM

chanjying,

Thanks very much for that response, exactly what I wanted to know.  Someone in this thread said that supposedly a reason that Genin has not opened a U.S. shop is pessimism about the quality of American butter.  I will get Plugra or Kerrygold (which are, I think, "European-style" butters, though probably far from the best French butter) when I make the attempt.

 

I have always wondered about the distinction between passion fruit juice and purée, as the "purée" I have purchased has always been quite thin (many ganache recipes call for reducing it by half to increase the flavor).



#137 tikidoc

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Posted 12 July 2015 - 05:23 AM

I recently tried a Genin-clone version of my apple caramels (the Nov 29 recipe but I cut back on the lecithin and halved the recipe). I substituted 40% of the cream with apple cider jelly (which is basically super-apple-y super-condensed apple cider) and cooked to 123C. I used a locally made butter which is excellent quality (comes scooped into a plastic tub). I also ended up adding back some acid (citric acid, to taste) because all the tartness was gone due to the natural acid being neutralized by the bicarb (I'll skip the bicarb in the future for any fruity caramels). The flavor and mouthfeel are both wonderful, and no oiliness, but it's too soft and sticky to even consider cutting, except straight out of the fridge.

 

Can I just heat the whole mess up again and bring to a higher temp? If so, what temp should I take it to?



#138 Jim D.

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Posted 12 July 2015 - 06:42 AM

Is this a slightly different recipe for apple caramel than the one you posted in another thread (I don't recall lecithin in that recipe)?  You may remember that you and I discussed apple caramel, and I have made your apple caramel (with a bit more apple cider jelly) with great success.  But I use it to fill shells, so the firmness doesn't matter so much.  I have no issues with recooking caramel; in fact, I did it just last week with some caramel that was too firm.  I added a little cream (but others recommend just plain water), and the caramel melted without a problem.  I do have continuing issues with getting a caramel that is meant to be firm enough to hold its shape but soft enough to eat easily.  As the caramel nears the temp I am aiming for, it becomes quite difficult to get an accurate reading of the temp of the contents of the pot.  I use the "drop a bit into water" test, but the caramel keeps cooking while I do the test.



#139 tikidoc

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Posted 12 July 2015 - 07:56 AM

I used sneich's recipe in post 53 of this thread, with modifications as above.  At this year's conference, Kerry was nice enough to share some Genin caramels. I tasted a berry one of some sort, and it was delicious, but what struck me the most was the texture. Firm enough to be cut and hold it's shape and not stick to everything, but smooth and melt-in-your-mouth texture, and no oiliness on the outside (which is a problem with the firmer version of my apple caramel). None of the "stick to your teeth" feeling of lots of caramels, including my apple one. I was pretty happy with the flavor of my caramel but wanted to improve the texture. When it's quite cool (not straight out of the fridge but not room temp either), the texture is perfect. So I assume that I just need to take the temp up a bit higher, but I'm not sure how high to go.


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#140 pastrygirl

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Posted 12 July 2015 - 01:52 PM

Tikidoc, I would aim for another 2-3 degrees C or 5-6 degrees F higher than originally cooked to firm them up, maybe a tiny bit more if they are really impossibly sloppy soft.



#141 Alleguede

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 03:53 PM

Here in Toronto, I go up to 121/122C. You can do 108c if you want caramel spread.
When adding fruits to the caramels you need to be sure to have a fat balance maintained.
For the butter, in France the average used in pastry is 84% if not higher.
I use a probe thermometer during the whole process. To keep a clean mouthfeel, just before pouring I add 2% cacao butter and give it a good stir.
When your caramel is cooked, don't work it more then necessary as it will separate the fat from the water.

#142 psantucc

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 06:14 PM

Is this a slightly different recipe for apple caramel than the one you posted in another thread (I don't recall lecithin in that recipe)?  You may remember that you and I discussed apple caramel, and I have made your apple caramel (with a bit more apple cider jelly) with great success.  But I use it to fill shells, so the firmness doesn't matter so much.  I have no issues with recooking caramel; in fact, I did it just last week with some caramel that was too firm.  I added a little cream (but others recommend just plain water), and the caramel melted without a problem.  I do have continuing issues with getting a caramel that is meant to be firm enough to hold its shape but soft enough to eat easily.  As the caramel nears the temp I am aiming for, it becomes quite difficult to get an accurate reading of the temp of the contents of the pot.  I use the "drop a bit into water" test, but the caramel keeps cooking while I do the test.

My problem exactly. I do find the water test more helpful than temperature, but it takes so long to get a result that I don't know how one can ever get it just right.

 

I went so far as to get a refractometer, but I've never used it. By the time I've cleaned it from test one, the answer to test two is "burnt".

 

Anyone have a technique that works around this?


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#143 Chocolot

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 06:56 AM

My problem exactly. I do find the water test more helpful than temperature, but it takes so long to get a result that I don't know how one can ever get it just right.

 

I went so far as to get a refractometer, but I've never used it. By the time I've cleaned it from test one, the answer to test two is "burnt".

 

Anyone have a technique that works around this?

 

I use thermometers from Thermoworks, either their handheld thermocouple  or Thermapen and haven't had a problem. 


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#144 chanjying

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 04:58 PM

I've also used a thermapen with fine results. Never seen or read about the use of a refractometer with caramels. 



#145 tikidoc

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Posted 15 July 2015 - 04:33 PM

Update: I recooked and brought it up to 127C. It's still soft, but holds it's shape, and does not stick to the wrappers. Flavor is fantastic, mouth feel very creamy. A success!


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#146 Jim D.

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Posted 15 July 2015 - 07:39 PM

I have now completed making the Genin caramels (using the recipe in post #132).  Some people say not to stir caramel too much, so I tried to avoid that, and, as a result, got a little scorching in the bottom of the pot.  I mostly left that part in the pot.  How are the caramels?  I am not thrilled with the taste.  The mango and passion fruit are quite prominent, but there is not much caramel taste.  If I make it again, I will try plain (with vanilla, of course) or maybe something more subtle than passion fruit.  The texture, on the other hand, is quite amazing.  This must come from the unusual method of cooking the liquids and the sugars together from the start, as that is the only substantial difference from other caramel recipes.  The finished product cuts easily, does not stick to one's teeth, and so far has held its shape well at room temperature in spite of its softness.  There was separation of the butter from the caramel at two points in the cooking, but I used a whisk and all came together again.



#147 Jim D.

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Posted 16 July 2015 - 04:54 AM

A question on the "Genin caramels":  If I don't use passion fruit and mango and want to make plain caramels, what liquid would I substitute for those two fruit purées?  Cream seems an obvious choice, but would that cause an imbalance in the recipe (such as providing too much fat)?  Any help would be appreciated.

 

A followup to my effort of yesterday: This morning, after they were left out on the counter all night, the caramels are still soft yet hold their shape perfectly, and they are a bit sticky but not at all oily.  As for understanding how they differ from traditional caramels, I assume the cooking of cream, fruit juices, sugar, and glucose together (without a separate caramelizing of the sugars) slows down the Maillard reaction; I wonder if eliminating the flavor provided by the fruit will produce something rather bland in taste.



#148 tikidoc

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Posted 16 July 2015 - 05:35 AM

Jim, maybe try the recipe earlier in the thread, some variation of the one that I started with? I went easy on the lecithin due to previous comments about a taste that it adds. I think I used about half what was used in the recipe in post 53. I didn't notice any off taste, but since I made an apple version, the apple flavor is pretty strong and may have covered it.



#149 psantucc

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 03:18 PM

I've also used a thermapen with fine results. Never seen or read about the use of a refractometer with caramels. 

I finally took a moment to dig back and figure out why I thought I could use a refractometer to make caramels.

 

I just assumed so. No one recommended it. So maybe the reason it doesn't work for me it that it doesn't work, period.

 

Now I have to figure out why. Since I don't really know how to use a refractometer at all, maybe I'll start by using it for something it should work for and see where we go from there.

 

I'll see if my Thermpen gives the results I'm looking for, too. Thanks.


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