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Jacques Genin Caramels

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132 replies to this topic

#31 mostlylana

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 01:40 PM

Boy, they must be tasting good...

I was thinking the same thing about butter content. I'll give you a few websites to look at.

The first is a mistake someone made in making caramels that turned into a good thing. To summarize, the mistake was that the milk curdled and she strained out the curds (that would leave less fat in the caramel). To compensate, she added lots of butter! Her result was apparently the best caramels she's made.
http://www.chezpim.c...-yourself-.html

Then I came across this recipe: http://www.groupreci...h-caramels.html where half and half cream is asked for with the specification of 'no substitutions'. But take a look at the amount of butter! This would be similar to the first 'mistake' recipe where a lot of the fat was strained out of the cream.

I guess in this way, you're able to add more butter (and get the butter flavour) without the added fat in the whole cream.

#32 NickLam

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 03:39 PM

Schneich.....haha, are you serious about the explaining the unctous part? The caramel offered no resistance to the bite and no stickiness on the teeth. Once in the mouth and mixed with saliva, it began to disintegrate into a soft, smooth and rich texture, and the flavours of the fruits are clean and clear.

The 'bite' reminded me a lot of a passionfruit 'pate de fruit' made with Gellan and unfortunately, I do not have access to these things and would love to buy them for testing, but have no money!

Here's a very 'Frenchy' style caramel that works well and gives the soft texture of caramels from that country! Feel free to make comparisons, but note the lecithin, which will probably solve graininess and greasiness issues. Just as in chocolate ganaches, the sorbitol will reduce the water activity, which in turn stabilises the whole confection and inhabits crystallization of the sugar which in turn softens the confection and gives it a better texture.

1000 Sugar
150 Glucose
70 Sorbitol Powder
700 Semi Salted Butter
4 Lecithin
1000 Cream
2 Bicarbonate
2 each Vanilla Pods

Bring cream to a low simmer with the vanilla and bicarb. Make a caramel with the sugar, glucose and sorbitol. Mix softened butter with lecithin and mix it into the caramel. Mix in the simmering cream mixture. Cook to 116 degrees and slab immediately. Add 50g of finely chopped hazelnuts at 116 degrees celsius if desired.

These fruit caramels have escaped us all for too long, I think. Schneich, thanks for reviving this issue, I now have some experiments to conduct on my day off on Sunday!

#33 prasantrin

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 03:42 PM

I wonder if Japanese caramels are more similar to what you're looking for. They're not sticky at all, and are very tender in a melt-in-your-mouth way. Maybe you can try looking for a recipe for nama-caramel and see if it gets you close to what you want.

#34 schneich

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Posted 31 October 2009 - 08:09 AM

i can confirm now that nick´s recipe is really good. it makes a very creamy smooth yet a little sweeter caramel, perhaps a little chewier than my previous trials.
whats really weird is that you need to cook this recipe to 120c, if you cook it to 116c its to soft too handle. can it be that the sorbitol
(i had no pulverized, so i used double amount liquid sorbitol) keeps more water bound even though the temperature rises ??

questions over questions :-)
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#35 Lior

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Posted 31 October 2009 - 10:15 AM

Did you replace any cream with fruit? I will try this.

#36 Kerry Beal

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 06:48 PM

Tried Nick's recipe last night - took it to 120 degrees as suggested by Torsten. Still very soft - I think I'll try 121 or even a bit higher next time.

Had a hell of a time getting it out of the silicone baking pan I put it in. Nick and Torsten - what did you pour it out onto - and did you have any trouble getting it off the surface?

Cuts like a dream.

#37 schneich

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 01:23 AM

poured it on a silpat with aluminum rulers... i cut it with the guitar cutter... no sticking at all...



cheers


t.
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#38 schneich

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 01:24 AM

poured it on a silpat with aluminum rulers... i cut it with the guitar cutter... no sticking at all...



cheers


t.
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#39 cmflick

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 02:57 PM

What size slab does Nick's recipe make? Looks like it would be pretty big.

#40 schneich

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 03:53 PM

last trials with nicks recipe yesterday, i think we NAILED IT. i think iam safe to say now that we DID a genin clone (or at least very close) ;-)
i cooked a double recipe, pretty slow on a induction cooktop at about 1500-2200 watts, hence no scorching during the whole cooking process.
compared to nick original recipe i tripled the lecithin which i bamixed into a small portion of melted butter. since i didnt have sorbitol powder
i used liquid, and doubled the amount to cope with the excess water, the 30 vanilla was added at 115c. the whole thing was cooked to 120c.

i have no idea what emulsions do at high temperatures (maybe someone has a few cent on that) but i guess i found that if you
work the hot caramel too much after cooking (we tried to put it in some flexipan molds) or even work it after it cooled a few minutes
it has a very bad habit to break on you :-( if you let the sucker cool COMPLETELY (and by completely i mean over night covered with a layer of
baking paper in a cold pastry kitchen) its nice and smooth. the whole thing is still quite hard to handle on a guitar cutter but workable.
the lecithin seems to do its job quite well, but if someone else knows a more powerful emusifier for the job i would like to know :-/

from today these thingies are going into production... double of the recipe below makes 4 guitar size slabs and about 300 euros ;-)


cheers

t.


1000 Sugar
150 Glucose
140 Liquid Sorbitol
700 Beurre demi sel
12 Lecithin
1000 Cream 35%
4 Bicarbonate
30 vanilla extract

Edited by schneich, 10 November 2009 - 03:55 PM.

toertchen toertchen
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#41 Lior

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 05:37 AM

Thanks. Did you use any fruit? If so, when and how much? Much luck with the production and sales!

#42 cmflick

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 05:46 AM

Sounds great. For those of us without a guitar, what size was each of your slabs?

#43 gap

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 04:12 PM

last trials with nicks recipe yesterday, i think we NAILED IT. i think iam safe to say now that we DID a genin clone (or at least very close) ;-)


schneich - thank you very much for your work on this and posting the final version as well - I will definitely give these a go!!

#44 mostlylana

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 04:39 PM

I, too, want to add my thanks to you Schneich for being so generous with your information. I can't wait to try your recipe!

I don't have Sorbitol in any form. Do you think it can be substituted with something else? I'm assuming the sorbitol is mainly important for keeping qualities... But I know this is a finely tuned recipe and I'm afraid of upsetting the balance!

#45 Kerry Beal

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 05:20 PM

I, too, want to add my thanks to you Schneich for being so generous with your information. I can't wait to try your recipe!

I don't have Sorbitol in any form. Do you think it can be substituted with something else? I'm assuming the sorbitol is mainly important for keeping qualities... But I know this is a finely tuned recipe and I'm afraid of upsetting the balance!

Sorbital is fairly easy to get in health food stores - the company "Now" makes it.

#46 prairiegirl

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 10:08 PM

Sorbitol: Also contact diebetic stores.

#47 cmflick

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 08:37 AM

Question: what's the best way to store caramels? Do they need to be individually wrapped and if so, in what? I want to try schneich's recipe.

#48 Kerry Beal

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 04:51 PM

Question: what's the best way to store caramels? Do they need to be individually wrapped and if so, in what? I want to try schneich's recipe.

If you don't enrobe in chocolate - then individually wrapped in 4X4 pieces of cello such as that found here.

#49 Lior

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 12:36 AM

Is it just me that is confused here? :unsure: I understood that the famous Genin caramels we tried to reverse engineer were with Passion fruit and mango...or did this flavor become secondary to the original fantastic basic caramel recipe?

Anyhow, I have powdered sorbitol. I wonder if in other recipes that call for liquid sorbitol can be replaced with powdered -in half the weight of the liquid one. All these ingredients are incredibly hard to get here even in health food stores and there is no speciality store for diabetics!

Perhaps a list of replacements would be good. Sorbitol can be replaced with? Powdered vs. liquid? Glucose, corn syrup, inverted etc!!! I know (I hope!) that glucose and corn are interchangeable. Or should we just have all the possibilites available? Just some thoughts as these questions seem to pop up every now and then!

#50 cmflick

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 09:41 AM

Thanks to Nick and schneich for the caramel recipe. These are really good. I made them yesterday following schneich's recipe. I cooked them to about 122C (252F), since there had been some discussion of the caramels being really soft. I used sorbitol powder and used half the amount that was in schniech's recipe, since he said that he had doubled the amount of sorbitol since his is liquid. They are perfect. I don't know how they compare to Jacques Genin caramels since I haven't had any, but these are the best caramels that I have had. They are soft and creamy, but hold their shape, i.e, not too soft.

Edited by cmflick, 24 November 2009 - 09:41 AM.


#51 gap

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 04:00 PM

Is it just me that is confused here? :unsure: I understood that the famous Genin caramels we tried to reverse engineer were with Passion fruit and mango...or did this flavor become secondary to the original fantastic basic caramel recipe?

Anyhow, I have powdered sorbitol. I wonder if in other recipes that call for liquid sorbitol can be replaced with powdered -in half the weight of the liquid one. All these ingredients are incredibly hard to get here even in health food stores and there is no speciality store for diabetics!

Perhaps a list of replacements would be good. Sorbitol can be replaced with? Powdered vs. liquid? Glucose, corn syrup, inverted etc!!! I know (I hope!) that glucose and corn are interchangeable. Or should we just have all the possibilites available? Just some thoughts as these questions seem to pop up every now and then!


Hi Lior - Genin has quite a few caramel flavours. I think the aim was to get the original because then you can adapt that as you want.

I have always been told that you can substitute liquid and powdered sorbitol in recipes.

Use twice as much liquid sorbitol as powdered sorbitol (by weight)

Cheers

Edited by gap, 24 November 2009 - 04:01 PM.


#52 Lior

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 09:19 AM

thank you!Thank you!

#53 schneich

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 09:21 AM

just wanted to give you guys an update from the caramel front.
i finetuned my recipe cause i had still issues with fat oozing. after some very
unsuccessful trials with sucrose ester (sucro, sole graells & sucrosilk) instead
of lecithin i wen back to the original recipe changing the bicarbonate, the butter
and the lecithin weights.

1000 Sugar
150 Glucose
140 Liquid Sorbitol
600 Beurre demi sel
60 Lecithin
1000 Cream 35%
8 Bicarbonate
30 vanilla extract

this baby is very stable shows virtually no signs of fat oozing and what seems really weird
it tastes a lot creamier :-/

i also tried a genin type mango/passion recipe, but it was lightyears away from the real thing..
gotta put some effort in this i guess...

i also find that cooking the caramels slower over a long period of time intensifies the caramel flavours..

anyway, these are my results so far, they sell very well :-)


Edited by schneich, 29 November 2009 - 09:23 AM.

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#54 Lior

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 03:16 AM

very fun to watch. "The Reversed Engineered Caramel" by Confiseur Schneich! Focused on excellence!! Ta-dum!!

Epitomizes the effort put into making one delicious product!!!

#55 ElsieD

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 12:02 PM

I have a couple of dumb questions. Can I make this at home? Can I scale down the recipe, by say, a quarter? I assume the quantities given are for grams?

Thanks

#56 cmflick

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 03:12 PM

I made it at home, scaled down to about 700 grams using schneich's first recipe. . The caramels came out really well and there were no problems at all.

#57 ElsieD

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 03:33 PM

I made it at home, scaled down to about 700 grams using schneich's first recipe. . The caramels came out really well and there were no problems at all.



Thanks for responding, but you didn't really answer my questions. You produced 700 gms? Or did you start with 700 gms of the first ingredient on what I assume is the Oct. 19th posted recipe? Or am I not reading something right? Any chance you can tell me how many caramels you had when you cut them up? I'd like to try this for Christmas gifts. Thanks!

#58 zoe b

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 05:31 PM

I think he meant scaled down to 700 grams total weight

#59 Kerry Beal

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 07:17 PM

I scaled by half, so started with 500 grams of sugar.

#60 cmflick

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 06:31 AM


I made it at home, scaled down to about 700 grams using schneich's first recipe. . The caramels came out really well and there were no problems at all.



Thanks for responding, but you didn't really answer my questions. You produced 700 gms? Or did you start with 700 gms of the first ingredient on what I assume is the Oct. 19th posted recipe? Or am I not reading something right? Any chance you can tell me how many caramels you had when you cut them up? I'd like to try this for Christmas gifts. Thanks!


I produced 700 grams total of caramel. That made a slab about 8 x 8 x 1/2 inch. I cut that up into about 1 inch squares, but it was all done by eye using a pizza wheel cutter, so I'm not sure how many caramels I ended up with in the end. Sorry if my previous answer was confusing.

I used schneich's Nov. 10 recipe.

Edited by cmflick, 01 December 2009 - 06:34 AM.






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