254 replies to this topic

[Chris Amirault]

I'd also be very hesitant to serve as a "Mai Tai" any recipe containing pineapple or orange juice. Just doesn't seem right, especially as exposure to the uninitiated.

Because it doesn't adhere to the authentic original but uses its name?

[John Rosevear]

A number of good bars serve the Surf Room variant with an explanation, or call it the "Hawaiian" Mai Tai. It certainly has a history of its own. It's also a great drink.

[Chris Amirault]

It is a great drink. If it pleases the court, I'll simply call it "The Surf Room Not Really a Mai Tai."

[bmdaniel]

Also, not only is the flavor of homemade orgeat better, but I really like the louche-esque effect it gives the drink (see my mai-tai photo above).

Hardly takes more work than an infused syrup.

[thirtyoneknots]

I'd also be very hesitant to serve as a "Mai Tai" any recipe containing pineapple or orange juice. Just doesn't seem right, especially as exposure to the uninitiated.

Because it doesn't adhere to the authentic original but uses its name?

Exactly. I just don't think its very good form to stress all these points about 'authentic' and old-school drinks then serve a Mai Tai variation as a Mai Tai. I won't dispute that the Surf Room is a fine drink, but it's akin to serving people a Tantris Sidecar in lieu of a Sidecar.

[John Rosevear]

Exactly. I just don't think its very good form to stress all these points about 'authentic' and old-school drinks then serve a Mai Tai variation as a Mai Tai. I won't dispute that the Surf Room is a fine drink, but it's akin to serving people a Tantris Sidecar in lieu of a Sidecar.

I wouldn't advocate serving it in lieu of Victor's Mai Tai. But I emphatically advocate serving it as a variation, as Forbidden Island does (note the "Island Mai Tai").

[mkayahara]

I'd also be very hesitant to serve as a "Mai Tai" any recipe containing pineapple or orange juice. Just doesn't seem right, especially as exposure to the uninitiated.

Because it doesn't adhere to the authentic original but uses its name?

Exactly. I just don't think its very good form to stress all these points about 'authentic' and old-school drinks then serve a Mai Tai variation as a Mai Tai. I won't dispute that the Surf Room is a fine drink, but it's akin to serving people a Tantris Sidecar in lieu of a Sidecar.

I think Chris's original question was more broadly what Tiki drink you would serve for his workshop, so in that sense, it's not necessarily off-base to serve a Mai Tai variation. That said, if he had asked "What brandy drink would you serve to the uninitiated?" no one would have suggested serving a Tantris Sidecar on the basis that it shows how you can effectively blend grape brandy with brandies from other fruits to produce a delicious, complex, balanced drink.

In other words, I think I come down on Andy's side here. An original* Trader Vic Mai Tai has all the elements needed to showcase what Tiki drinks are about (fresh juice, layered rums, more-or-less obscure syrups), while also being a classic drink in its own right - and one that does suffer a lot of bastardization, just as many other classic drinks do.

*OK, not original original, but original as reformulated after the J. Wray 17-year-old rum ran out.

[Chris Amirault]

Right. Just to clarify, this will be drink #3 at a rum cocktail class which will absolutely, positively include a Daiquiri starter for all the reasons specified above. By the time we get to drink #3, they will have had another complete drink (not sure yet), tastes of several ingredients (orgeat, passion fruit, a bunch of rums, etc.), and will be ready for the finale. It doesn't have to be the most "authentic" tiki drink, whatever that would be. It has to be a showstopper example of the genre.

And, of course, if there were one right answer here, we wouldn't have things like this forum.

[Chris Amirault]

I made a Mai Tai tonight using the BarSmarts recipe:

2 oz aged rum (I used Inner Circle green and a teeny bit of Brugal anejo to get to 2 oz)
3/4 oz lime
3/4 curacao
1 t orgeat

Was a bit too tart, so I added about a t of demerara, which rounded it out. Then I compared it to the Trader Vic version (from his Revised Bartenders Guide), and was confused once again to see VB's "1 lime" direction. Tonight, for example, I got over an ounce from one half of a small lime. Also confused to see Jeff Berry's translation of "1 lime" as "1 1/2 ounces", which would really make for a tart drink (though he includes the 1/4 oz rock candy syrup).

In short, given that I'm not going to be using Inner Circle rum for the class and haven't figured out how to balance it, I'm a bit nervous about using it as the drink. More practice, clearly, is needed.

[FireAarro]

I think if you're using homemade orgeat you'd want to go a little heavier than a teaspoon, maybe cutting back on the curacao. How much is an American teaspoon in mL, anyway?

[bmdaniel]

Try the recipe I posted upthread - I thought it made a balanced drink at different ratios than you are using. I also think the two rum approach makes a nice drink, but it might be too much hassle for your class.

[thirtyoneknots]

I think if you're using homemade orgeat you'd want to go a little heavier than a teaspoon, maybe cutting back on the curacao. How much is an American teaspoon in mL, anyway?

1 tsp = 5 ml

[mkayahara]

How much is an American teaspoon in mL, anyway?

It's about 5 ml. Edit: I see someone beat me to it.

Chris, I thought the Barsmarts recipe for the Mai Tai was pretty idiosyncratic. What's your usual go-to recipe?

Edited by mkayahara, 12 October 2009 - 07:23 AM.

[Wild Bill Turkey]

Two thoughts:
On the amount of lime juice, Jeff Berry changed ONLY the quantity of lime juice in the"Trader Vic's" Mai Tai recipe between the publication of "Grog Log" (which calls for 1 1/2 ozs lime juice) and "Sippin' Safari" (which calls for only 1 ounce). Having always used the older recipe, which uses more lime juice, I've always been very happy with my results. But the Beachbum's changes to this recipe seem to indicate he agrees with you.

The two-rum recipe seen in Jeff Berry's books, as well as others seems like the way to go for teaching a class about this tropical standard. After all, the practice of mixing rums for unique blends is central to the style of this category. I can't imagine teaching even a brief segment on the subject of tiki drinks without demonstrating the blending of rums, and it strikes me as odd that the Barsmarts course ignores this tradition (though, of course, who am I?)

[Chris Amirault]

Matthew, I don't have a go-to Mai Tai recipe, in part bc I usually fiddle around with whatever rum I have handy until I get what I want from it. I'm also dealing with some contributed products here and can't test things out until I have the samples (heart beats faster as he looks at the date).

Having said that, I'm thinking that a Mai Tai is going to be the way to go, using Sippin' Safari ratios (i.e., cutting the lime down to 1 ounce). I'm greeting them with Wondrich's Mississippi Punch variation (to get some arrack in their bellies) and then having them make and test Daiquiris, so a Mai Tai is the next logical step, I think. I also want to showcase a particularly good batch of orgeat, and my mint has died yet, so....

[Dave the Cook]

. . . .

In short, given that I'm not going to be using Inner Circle rum for the class and haven't figured out how to balance it, I'm a bit nervous about using it as the drink. More practice, clearly, is needed.

I've run through my supply of Inner Circle green, an ingredient that Dave Wondrich's says is essential to his Both Indies cocktail. The other night, it occurred to me to try mixing equal parts Gosling's Black Seal and Cruzan 151. Not only did it work reasonably well, it made me realize that the Both Indies is a tiki drink of a sort -- even moreso when made with two rums rather than one.

Anyway, you might give it a try, Chris.

[thirtyoneknots]

Even better, use the Goslings 151 to blend instead of the Cruzan. Goslings "115" one of my favorites!

edit: clarification

Edited by thirtyoneknots, 20 October 2009 - 02:50 PM.

[Dave the Cook]

I considered that, but I already had the Cruzan -- gathering dust because I wasn't quite sure what to do with it.

[thirtyoneknots]

I considered that, but I already had the Cruzan -- gathering dust because I wasn't quite sure what to do with it.

I guess I'll let it slide this time

[David Santucci]

I think Appleton V/X works really well in a Mai Tai. I usually do 2:1:1/2:1/2:1/4 rum:lime:curacao:orgeat:simple, which I could swear I got from DrinkBoy, but that's not the recipe he has there now.

[thirtyoneknots]

I think Appleton V/X works really well in a Mai Tai. I usually do 2:1:1/2:1/2:1/4 rum:lime:curacao:orgeat:simple, which I could swear I got from DrinkBoy, but that's not the recipe he has there now.

That is pretty much the original preportion, and Appleton V/X works marvellously I would have to agree (and can be had for such a bargain on sale). The only change in the Drinkboy recipe now vs the older one is it used to include a float of dark rum.

[Chris Amirault]

Dave, what's the recipe for the Both Indies Cocktail?

[vice]

Not the Dave you were asking, but the Both Indies is given here as

2 oz. Inner Circle rum (115 proof)
3/4 oz. lemon juice
1/2 oz. Velvet Falernum
1/4 oz. Grand Marnier

Shake over ice and strain into a chilled glass. Float a couple of drops of Angostura bitters over the drink.

Edited by vice, 21 October 2009 - 07:42 AM.

[Chris Amirault]

Let's just say you were teaching a course to cocktail neophytes and wanted to explain what a tiki drink is. What would you say?

[mkayahara]

In 25 words or less? A drink rooted in the tropical-themed restaurants of the mid-20th century, usually based on (multiple) rums, with an emphasis on fresh juices and flavoured syrups.

How's that?

[Chris Amirault]

I like it.

[kathryn]

For tiki drink and iPhone fans, Jeff "Beachbum" Berry and the makers of the Cocktails+ app have released the Tiki+ application. I highly recommend the application, particularly because I find flipping through Sippin' Safari for specific recipes to be sometimes difficult.

[tammylc]

I'm hosting a little cocktail party this weekend, and am planning a tropical and Tiki theme (because my friend Mary just got back from Hawaii and is pining for the tropics). Can you recommend a few Tiki or Tiki style drinks that don't require me to buy 6 different rums? I don't mind buying a couple more (or other mixing liqueurs) to round out my collection, but...

Right now I have Appleton Estates Reserve and Cruzan white rum in my liqueur cabinet. What else is essential, and what can I mix with them?

Thanks in advance!

[bmdaniel]

In terms of Rum, the first two I'd add would be a Demarara (Ideally Lemon Hart Overproof) and a Martinique (St. James); having those two plus what you have would let you make pretty solid versions of the Mai-Tai and the Zombie, which are the two quintessential tiki drinks in my opinion.

Mixer's/liquers/etc are trickier - if you're going to make both you'll need at least Orange Curacao, Orgeat, and Falernum, and really should have some anise and grendadine also. There are great guides available here for making your own orgeat and grenadine, which are both pretty easy. If you've got all this gathered together you'd be in great shape for other tasty tiki drinks too (e.g. a Surf Room Mai Tai).

[tammylc]

Thanks for the tips. It appears I can get the Lemon Hart here in MI, but not the St. James - do you have another recommendation on a Martinique?

I'm almost out of grenadine and have to make up another batch, and just read the thread of Orgeat and think I can pull that off too. But I have a strong suspicion I won't be able to find any Falernum...