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Green Mold on Dry-Cured Sausages?!

Charcuterie

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40 replies to this topic

#31 dougal

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 03:01 AM

...
Regarding the action of 'good' moulds to combat 'bad' ones, one very relevant paper would seem to be
Molds as Protective Cultures for Raw Dry Sausages (published 1994 and 1995)
http://www.ingentaco...000010/art00017
http://www.ingentaco...000007/art00019

Abstract:
Mold strains T11 and T19 belonging to Penicillium camemberti and N1 of Penicillium nalgiovensis were used as protective cultures for production of raw dry sausages. Their use completely eliminated the growth of undesirable molds, originating from the natural house mycoflora, which often produce mycotoxins and lead to several other defects. Potassium sorbate (KS), an antifungal agent, was also tested for protecting sausages against the growth of molds but its effect was short lived. The use of T11, T19 and N1 mold strains also improved the organoleptic qualities of the sausages.

So, could Camembert rind not merely be good, but could it actually be the ideal inoculum for a 'good' sausage casing culture ? :cool:

Has anyone got access to the experimental detail in this paper? (For example, did they use the Camemberti and Nalgiovensis alone or only together?)
...




One more datapoint.

From a new (to me at least) page on the Butcher & Packer website:

Mold-600 is a single strain culture containing spores of Penicillium nalgiovense in a convenient freeze-dried form. P. nalgiovense is a fast growing, traditional white mold culture for controlling the surface flora.

Mold-600 is particularly recommended for the production of traditional sausages dried at low temperature and/or low humidity.

Mold-600 suppresses the growth of undesirable organisms such as indigenous molds, yeasts and bacteria. The culture has a positive effect on the drying process by preventing the emergence of a dry rim. Furthermore, the mold degrades lactic acid during maturation resulting in a pH increase and a less sourish flavor.

http://www.butcher-p...products_id=334
Bactiferm 600 was M-EK-54. Seems it is and was a particular P. Nalgiovense. Only.
Interesting that it should reduce the acidity that is one protection against C. botulinum.

Edited by dougal, 12 October 2009 - 03:04 AM.

"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch ... you must first invent the universe." - Carl Sagan

#32 Chris Hennes

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 07:59 AM

Since the mold operates on the surface, where one isn't concerned about C. botulinum due to the presence of oxygen, I wouldn't think the alteration of the pH there would be of any concern. Interesting that we can add one more "good" mold to the list. I don't know anything about P. Nalgiovense---you?

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#33 chefunk

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 08:15 PM

I've been studying through the forums and have not found any comment on this - perhaps I missed it. My first batch of sausage turned into land fill due to wild molds and yeast. Thereafter I immersed the sausage after stuffing in a M-Ek bath. Beautiful snow white cover, beautiful red center, right consitancy, etc. etc. Except they taste moldy, or musty. so much so, for my palate that I can't enjoy them. I used T-SPx as the starter. I am going to try immersing the naxt batch and in potassium sorbate to see if I can get the flavor i want without the musty taste. I wouldmuch prefer molded casings but........

any thoughts?iphone pics marks 02032009 047.JPG

#34 Chris Hennes

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 10:23 AM

Did you eat it with the mold still on, or take it off? I think in some respects sausages are like cheese: some people like the rind and some don't. I'd be curious to know how "moldy" it tasted if you remove the skin entirely, as well, as I saw them doing at the Calabria Pork Store.

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#35 chefunk

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 11:50 AM

Casing off, Chris! Removed it prior to eating......

#36 Chris Hennes

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 03:24 PM

Have you eaten sausages from other producers that you can compare yours to? I've eaten a number of sausages that were sold (and eaten) casing on and mold intact, without any negative flavors that I could discern. Are you sure the mold on the exterior is to blame for the flavor problems, and not the recipe or other aspect of the production?

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#37 chefunk

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 07:45 PM

Have you eaten sausages from other producers that you can compare yours to? I've eaten a number of sausages that were sold (and eaten) casing on and mold intact, without any negative flavors that I could discern. Are you sure the mold on the exterior is to blame for the flavor problems, and not the recipe or other aspect of the production?

100% positve? No. But I am fairly sure that I am OK on other aspects of production. I am producing it in a commercial kitchen, am a trained chef, etc. etc. I have a nagging feeling that there is something simple I am missing but I know not what. I'll try it with the potassium sorbate and see what happens. Any other advice gratefully accepted.

#38 Chris Hennes

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 11:12 PM

Another possible answer is to use a weak vinegar solution to wipe down the sausages and prevent the mold from forming at all. While the mold may be aesthetically pleasing, if it doesn't taste good...

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#39 yimyammer

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 05:40 AM

Bump, I''m new here and discovered this forum (great place by the way) while searching for a solution to my humidity issues in my curing chamber and excessive green mold.

 

I have consistent high humidity 85 to 94% and cant seem to get it down unless I open the door multiple times per day which I dont have the time to do nor am I near it on a daily basis to do so.

 

I've tried a salt trey in the bottom but its had no noticeable effect

 

next step is to try a ceramic bulb.

 

Has anyone found a good solution since this thread died out?

 

The RH outside of the fridge is 30-40% so the only thing I can figure is causing the high RH is the moisture coming off the meat, does that sound right?

 

thank you



#40 jmolinari

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 08:27 AM

you need to force your fridge to cycle more often. 

ceramic bulb.



#41 yimyammer

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 08:49 PM

you need to force your fridge to cycle more often. 
ceramic bulb.

 
Bingo, I added a ceramic bulb and its forcing the freezer to cycle more thus removing humidity from the freezer
 
The chamber is at a place I work that is 20+ minutes from my house so I bought a Wireless Monitor System with dry probe that allows me to tie into the WIFI at the restaurant and it sends the data to a website I can login and view the current (& past) temperature & RH.  It also charts the temperature & RH changes, its pretty cool, here's a screenshot:
 
 
charcchart.jpg
 
thanks for your reply







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