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The Bread Topic

Bread

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#241 furzzy

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 04:28 PM

And here's the crumb. I've just started baking again after several years' hiatus because of health. So I'll call this acceptable for the first try back. :-)

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#242 Ann_T

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 02:17 PM

And here's the crumb. I've just started baking again after several years' hiatus because of health. So I'll call this acceptable for the first try back. :-)

Wow!!  Way more than just acceptable. 



#243 furzzy

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 08:38 PM

And here's the crumb. I've just started baking again after several years' hiatus because of health. So I'll call this acceptable for the first try back. :-)

Wow!!  Way more than just acceptable. 

Wow! Coming from you, Ann, that's quite an honor. As I said before, everything your post is amazing.

#244 furzzy

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 07:00 PM

Made this sandwich bread yesterday. Used Bob's Red Mill 10-Grain Hot Cereal & KAF White Whole Wheat flour. Hubby said it was one of his faves ever.

ETA: I slashed the top & put the tiniest bit (ha!) of butter in it before baking.

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Edited by furzzy, 19 June 2013 - 07:03 PM.

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#245 Ann_T

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 06:22 PM

Furzzy,  I'd love a sandwich on your bread. 

 

June%2026th%2C%202013%206-L.jpg

 

 

June%2026th%2C%202013%201-L.jpg


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#246 furzzy

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 10:35 PM

Beautiful, Ann!



#247 Ann_T

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 09:20 AM

Thanks Furzzy.



#248 Syzygies

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 08:15 PM

oven.jpg
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Sourdough-Bread.jpg
 

I'm reporting on our naturally leavened bread from freshly ground flour, after dozens after dozens of experiments. It is a serviceable house loaf that is around all the time; we just had bruschetta tonight with first tomatoes of the season, for which it was perfect. It is my attempt to balance the looks of classic artisan bread with the flavor of sourdough from whole grains. I can't buy bread that tastes like this bread, and we're within a drive of Acme Bread, which I revere. Some of the links and observations may be helpful to others.
 
Bread is a continuum, so I find it crucial to maintain a spreadsheet, rather than follow other people's recipes. I tape a summary page to a cabinet door, to mark up as I work. It helps to adopt baker's percentages, in order to compare notes with other sources. Our default grain is organic red winter wheat; the spreadsheet (in grams) tracks other additions, and yields two loaves.
 
A day before baking, I feed our 80% hydration starter every 12 hours, using 75% red wheat and 25% rye. The night before baking, I grind and measure out all dry ingredients. The day of baking, I autolyse the flour for an hour or two, then add starter and salt, kneading by hand twenty minutes on a butcher block counter. This starts out a mess as with any wet dough; a bench knife is essential for collecting the dough every now and then. I bulk rise 3 to 4 hours, then proof 3 hours (until ready, usual finger test) in linen cloth in wooden frames. I transfer to the oven on parchment paper on a cookie sheet, and remove the parchment paper part way into the bake.
 
I started out far more of a "flour, water, salt, leaven" purist. The bit of yeast is insurance and a bit more loft; it can be left out. Similarly, a bit of diastatic malt promotes rise and a nicely colored crust; this too is optional.
 
Freshly ground flour is "green" and will flatten into the classic, feared "flying saucer" loaf shape unless one adds a bit of ascorbic acid. How does one add so little? One cuts in stages to a 1:400 concentration, thinned with white flour, as directed e.g. by Suas. I similarly cut the diastatic malt to 1:7, and keep jars of each mixture handy.
 
We grind flour using a Wolfgang Mock Grain Mill. One can spend more; we weren't happy with the flour or noise from several lesser choices. It would have saved us time and money to have started with this mill. This is also known as the Komo, a frequent choice over at The Fresh Loaf forum.
 
We sieve bran from our flour using 12" Round Stainless Steel Sieve, Fine Mesh (55 mesh) set in a Vollrath 8 Quart Heavy Duty Stainless Steel Mixing Bowl. Setting the Wolfgang two clicks back from a gnashing noise, this yields 80% extraction flour. For comparison, Pain Poilâne uses 85% to 95% extraction flour. A smaller sieve is too tedious; a larger sieve would be nice if one has the room. A matched pair of these bowls and a coarser sieve is handy for sifting mixtures together, such as preparing fixed concentrations of ascorbic acid or diastatic malt, or mixing these into one's flours before autolyse.
 
We bake over a charcoal fire in a Komodo Kamado ceramic yard oven. I usually set the fire a few hours before baking, bringing it down below 500 F before adding 400g of ice for steam, then baking 20 minutes or so at 450 or so. One can't judge such an oven by air temperature, as radiant heat is a significant factor; one wants to bake naturally leavened breads to 200 F internal temperature, with outer appearance a potential bonus, not the deciding factor.
 
For steam I keep 400g slabs of ice in our chest freezer, formed in a chamber vacuum sealer bag, sealed using an inexpensive impulse sealer. This is the way to go, for example, to freeze stock. This slab easily slides onto a 15" Lodge Logic Pre-Seasoned Skillet filled with two spools of Straight Link Chain in Stainless Steel. I've seen this idea in a number of places, the earliest being The Bread Builders: Hearth Loaves and Masonry Ovens. Most recently, Bouchon Bakery advocates such an approach, getting lots of credit and ridicule for popularizing this much steam. Steam injection oven – Keller style – safe? is an eGullet thread on this topic. In a nutshell, commercial bread ovens introduce lots of steam, plant spritzers don't, 400g ice over this much thermal mass turns into enough steam to displace the air in an oven a few times over, and not everyone is convinced that they need steam. It does lead to a thinner crust and better oven spring.

 


Per la strada incontro un passero che disse "Fratello cane, perche sei cosi triste?"
Ripose il cane: "Ho fame e non ho nulla da mangiare."

#249 shar999

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 05:52 AM

RusticSourdoughBread002_zps50dcc652.jpg

Cooked this Rustic Sourdough Bread outside on the Big Green Egg yesterday.

#250 Panaderia Canadiense

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 11:50 AM

Oh, that's gorgeous!  How do you get the spiral effect on the crust?


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#251 shar999

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 01:10 PM

Banneton001_zps3e47d815.jpg
Thank you.
This is a banneton or brotform. It's a cane basket that you put the bread in for it's second rising. I floured it heavily.

#252 Panaderia Canadiense

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 04:42 PM

I shall have to make myself one.  The effect is stunning, and I do enough of that form of loaf to make it worthwhile.


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#253 Panaderia Canadiense

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 01:38 PM

Calico cornbread.

 

CalicoCornbread.jpg

CalicoCornbreadCrumb.jpg


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#254 Syzygies

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 02:18 PM

couche.jpg

 

Here's an alternative to bannetons, if one is also comfortable sewing and woodworking. I haven't seen anything like it before, though my wife showed me a bread proofing "hammock" from the seventies that gave me the idea. I was never happy with how bannetons handled, and I could never find the shape I wanted. Working with wet doughs, I need the support that rigid sides offer, over just using a linen cloth as more serious bakers might do.

 

The linen cloth is sewn from rack material at a fabric store, Easier than ordering online, one knows what one gets, and one can get the size right. I have access to a sewing machine. It is worth learning how to make rudimentary hems like this.

 

The wooden frames are made from 1" x 4" wood, which is 3/4" x 3 1/2" actual. These were the prototypes; I may make more using finger joints, but only to get joinery practice. The construction shown is fine for breadmaking. Note the rotation of the end pieces; one doesn't want to drill into end grain. Think of wood fibers like a bundle of spaghetti, and one understands the relative strengths in different directions. The screw heads are inset using a separate conical bit, to keep the screws from scratching other surfaces. The frames were given a quick sanding after assembly, and left unfinished. One actually wants the wood to breath.

 

Linen is nonstick without flouring. With this approach, one can hang the cloth afterwards to dry, and wash it easily if desired.

 

What I like best about this approach is being able to lift off the frame, then roll the loaf off the linen cloth with a minimum of jostling. For very wet doughs, the less handling the better.

 

Just an idea...


Per la strada incontro un passero che disse "Fratello cane, perche sei cosi triste?"
Ripose il cane: "Ho fame e non ho nulla da mangiare."

#255 Isabelle Prescott

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 03:12 PM

Too complicated for me!  I just take an oblong wicker bread basket that one serves bread in at the table and line it with a linen dish towel.  I have 2 baskets and 2 linen towels as I make at least 2 loaves each time I bake.  Sometimes I make 3 loaves so I take a round bowl lined with a linen dish towel and make the third loaf round.  I have no problem gently rolling the raised dough onto my cornmeal covered pizza peel where I slash the dough before gently sliding it onto the pizza stone in my oven.  Works every time.



#256 Syzygies

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 05:31 PM

loaves.jpg

 

Too complicated for me! 

 

Actually, hemming the linen and making the frames is about the same amount of effort as making one batch of bread, if one is an activity omnivore. I'd told some people sit on the couch sometimes and watch TV. I would find that morbidly depressing, while the same half hour spend making something sounds like fun.

 

In any case, I have more of a problem than some bakers with the dough wanting to spread out. This was a solution to enforcing a 3 1/2" width constraint, while the loaves proof. As the photo shows, they manage to spread anyways with oven spring. The above loaves are 6" wide (at 75% hydration), and would have been even wider...

 


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Per la strada incontro un passero che disse "Fratello cane, perche sei cosi triste?"
Ripose il cane: "Ho fame e non ho nulla da mangiare."

#257 Kerry Beal

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 06:58 PM

attachicon.gifcouche.jpg

 

Here's an alternative to bannetons, if one is also comfortable sewing and woodworking. I haven't seen anything like it before, though my wife showed me a bread proofing "hammock" from the seventies that gave me the idea. I was never happy with how bannetons handled, and I could never find the shape I wanted. Working with wet doughs, I need the support that rigid sides offer, over just using a linen cloth as more serious bakers might do.

 

The linen cloth is sewn from rack material at a fabric store, Easier than ordering online, one knows what one gets, and one can get the size right. I have access to a sewing machine. It is worth learning how to make rudimentary hems like this.

 

The wooden frames are made from 1" x 4" wood, which is 3/4" x 3 1/2" actual. These were the prototypes; I may make more using finger joints, but only to get joinery practice. The construction shown is fine for breadmaking. Note the rotation of the end pieces; one doesn't want to drill into end grain. Think of wood fibers like a bundle of spaghetti, and one understands the relative strengths in different directions. The screw heads are inset using a separate conical bit, to keep the screws from scratching other surfaces. The frames were given a quick sanding after assembly, and left unfinished. One actually wants the wood to breath.

 

Linen is nonstick without flouring. With this approach, one can hang the cloth afterwards to dry, and wash it easily if desired.

 

What I like best about this approach is being able to lift off the frame, then roll the loaf off the linen cloth with a minimum of jostling. For very wet doughs, the less handling the better.

 

Just an idea...

Love it!  I'm forever propping things on both sides of the linen coche to try for the same effect.  Wonder what I've got around here that is a rectangular box with no bottom.  



#258 Isabelle Prescott

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 07:40 PM

My method is an alternative to society donors or using a bannoten.  I say "Hurrah!" for diversity.

 

I'm 78 years old, have 2 part time jobs, work out at the gym 3 days a week, have a boyfriend, sail my 26' sailboat regularly, take care of my garden, cook almost all my own meals, rarely watch TV and am going to take a class on cheese-making next week.  I will be making an apron tomorrow in my sewing machine.  I also volunteer selling at the symphony shop every other week.  I don't have a workshop in my garage to make a wooden device when a bread basket works fine for me.  In-between times I do the family thing... (9 grandkids). 


Edited by Isabelle Prescott, 10 July 2013 - 07:42 PM.

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#259 Ann_T

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 04:35 PM

Homemade Kaiser Buns

 

Homemade%20Kaiser%20Buns%20August%205th%

Shaped and rising.

 

Homemade%20Kaiser%20Buns%20August%205th%


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#260 shar999

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 04:43 AM

Beautiful!

#261 suzilightning

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 10:10 AM

I have a loaf of sandwich bread doing it's second rise for lunches this week.  It's just KAF white whole wheat and KAF bread flour.  Joining it in the oven will be a banana cake to use up some of the ones I had frozen in the past.  Thank goodness it is cool enough here to bake.


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#262 Anna N

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 01:54 PM

image.jpg

An unsophistcated loaf of white sandwich bread but nothing brings a wider smile to my granddaughter's face!
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#263 lochaven

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 02:58 PM

My method is an alternative to society donors or using a bannoten.  I say "Hurrah!" for diversity.

 

I'm 78 years old, have 2 part time jobs, work out at the gym 3 days a week, have a boyfriend, sail my 26' sailboat regularly, take care of my garden, cook almost all my own meals, rarely watch TV and am going to take a class on cheese-making next week.  I will be making an apron tomorrow in my sewing machine.  I also volunteer selling at the symphony shop every other week.  I don't have a workshop in my garage to make a wooden device when a bread basket works fine for me.  In-between times I do the family thing... (9 grandkids). 

 

 

 

You would be one hard to keep up with.  Congrats.  :)


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And I want a table for two and a chicken for eight o'clock.

#264 Ann_T

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 04:42 PM

Anna, that loaf brought a smile to my face too.  Beautiful.

 

I made a double batch of dough last Thursday.  Used a little to make a pizza and the rest went into the fridge for a four day cold fermentation.

 

Pulled the dough out of the fridge early this morning, before the day started to warm up. 

 

August%2012th%2C%202013%2010-L.jpg

Three large baguettes , out of the oven before 10:30 AM.

 

August%2012th%2C%202013%206-L.jpg


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#265 Anna N

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 05:21 PM

Anna, that loaf brought a smile to my face too.  Beautiful.
 
I made a double batch of dough last Thursday.  Used a little to make a pizza and the rest went into the fridge for a four day cold fermentation.
 
Pulled the dough out of the fridge early this morning, before the day started to warm up. 
 
August%2012th,%202013%2010-L.jpg
Three large baguettes , out of the oven before 10:30 AM.
 
August%2012th,%202013%206-L.jpg


Now that's bread! BEAUTIFUL.
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#266 Isabelle Prescott

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 06:32 PM

Thank you lochaven.  :biggrin:  Just tryin' to keep breathing and enjoy living. :wink:

My method is an alternative to society donors or using a bannoten.  I say "Hurrah!" for diversity.

 

I'm 78 years old, have 2 part time jobs, work out at the gym 3 days a week, have a boyfriend, sail my 26' sailboat regularly, take care of my garden, cook almost all my own meals, rarely watch TV and am going to take a class on cheese-making next week.  I will be making an apron tomorrow in my sewing machine.  I also volunteer selling at the symphony shop every other week.  I don't have a workshop in my garage to make a wooden device when a bread basket works fine for me.  In-between times I do the family thing... (9 grandkids). 

 

 

 

You would be one hard to keep up with.  Congrats.  :)



#267 furzzy

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 08:41 PM

Anna, that loaf brought a smile to my face too.  Beautiful.
 
I made a double batch of dough last Thursday.  Used a little to make a pizza and the rest went into the fridge for a four day cold fermentation.
 
Pulled the dough out of the fridge early this morning, before the day started to warm up. 
 
August%2012th,%202013%2010-L.jpg
Three large baguettes , out of the oven before 10:30 AM.
 
August%2012th,%202013%206-L.jpg


Oh wow! Would you just look at that crumb! Be still, my heart.

#268 Isabelle Prescott

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 10:25 PM

Beautiful picture!!!  I'm impressed with it and the follwing is not meant in any way as a criticism of you or anyone else posting on this bread forum.

 

I have been wondering for a while now.  How did it come to be so important to have lots of air space and little actual bread when we bake at home?  Is there nutrition in the air spaces?  Or are we breadmakers trying to impress other bakers with our knowledge of how our bread should look?

 

In my everyday, humdrum life I need a certain amount of actual food to chew on and if I don't get this "chewing" in a piece of toast or sandwich I find myself wanting to eat stuff like crunchy, salty snacks. My home made sourdough bread can look all holey if I so choose to make it that way but when I made a sandwich I like a little more substance.

 

This is a serious question for me.  Am I the only who feels this way?  I appreciate all comments. pro or con.  Not trying to be a smart-a** here!  Thanks for all replies.  I love eGullet in all its aspects.


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#269 Mjx

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 10:38 PM

Beautiful picture!!!  I'm impressed with it and the follwing is not meant in any way as a criticism of you or anyone else posting on this bread forum.

 

I have been wondering for a while now.  How did it come to be so important to have lots of air space and little actual bread when we bake at home?  Is there nutrition in the air spaces?  Or are we breadmakers trying to impress other bakers with our knowledge of how our bread should look?

 

In my everyday, humdrum life I need a certain amount of actual food to chew on and if I don't get this "chewing" in a piece of toast or sandwich I find myself wanting to eat stuff like crunchy, salty snacks. My home made sourdough bread can look all holey if I so choose to make it that way but when I made a sandwich I like a little more substance.

 

This is a serious question for me.  Am I the only who feels this way?  I appreciate all comments. pro or con.  Not trying to be a smart-a** here!  Thanks for all replies.  I love eGullet in all its aspects.

 

I think a lot of it has to do with what you grow up with. For example, I grew up in Tuscany, where 'ordinary bread' has an open, chewy structure, hard crust, and absolutely no salt or sugar. When my family moved back to the US, it was all Arnold's whole wheat bread, all the time: compact, soft, compressible, and SWEET. I found it jarring at every level, just horribly, horribly wrong, because it isn't unusual for kids to be conservative about food. I have to admit that I never took to US supermarket bread, or soft sandwich loaves in general.


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#270 Anna N

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 04:01 AM

Beautiful picture!!!  I'm impressed with it and the follwing is not meant in any way as a criticism of you or anyone else posting on this bread forum.
 
I have been wondering for a while now.  How did it come to be so important to have lots of air space and little actual bread when we bake at home?  Is there nutrition in the air spaces?  Or are we breadmakers trying to impress other bakers with our knowledge of how our bread should look?
 
In my everyday, humdrum life I need a certain amount of actual food to chew on and if I don't get this "chewing" in a piece of toast or sandwich I find myself wanting to eat stuff like crunchy, salty snacks. My home made sourdough bread can look all holey if I so choose to make it that way but when I made a sandwich I like a little more substance.
 
This is a serious question for me.  Am I the only who feels this way?  I appreciate all comments. pro or con.  Not trying to be a smart-a** here!  Thanks for all replies.  I love eGullet in all its aspects.

 

Personally, I would rarely consider "holey" bread to be suitable sandwich making bread. It's a bread meant to be enjoyed as is. Soft, white sandwhich bread, on the other hand, can rarely stand on its own. Two different breads serving different purposes. That's just my take.


Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

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