55 replies to this topic

[markabauman]

By chance, has anyone who has been to Marea ordered the "whole fish", which they price by the pound?
A few years back when Michael White was still at Fiamma, we ordered the "whole roast branzino".
The fish came out headless. When I expressed disappointment to the server (I would hardly call it a complaint) that the head was not present for the visual presentation, for the tender morsels to be found in the cheeks, and that it had been presented as "whole", the server said "Our typical customer doesn't want to see the head, so the chef just automatically removes it" With a shrug of the shoulders, the server turned and walked away. Just wondering if it's any different now.

[DutchMuse]

I went last night and my friend and I had the pink sea bream. It was brought to the table by our server uncooked but whole, so we could see it (I jokingly asked for its name). It was cooked and brought back to our table after it was filleted, with each of our portion's on individual plates.

It was terrific, by the way!

[Wemedge]

By chance, has anyone who has been to Marea ordered the "whole fish", which they price by the pound?
A few years back when Michael White was still at Fiamma, we ordered the "whole roast branzino".
The fish came out headless. When I expressed disappointment to the server (I would hardly call it a complaint) that the head was not present for the visual presentation, for the tender morsels to be found in the cheeks, and that it had been presented as "whole", the server said "Our typical customer doesn't want to see the head, so the chef just automatically removes it" With a shrug of the shoulders, the server turned and walked away. Just wondering if it's any different now.

thatss called "Bad service." if this is really what happened. even if it wasn't, that was your impression, and it sounds like they've got some attitude.

for a restaurant of marea's caliber, he should have went to the kitchen and got you a whole branzino head and presented it to your table with flourish. you did ask for it.

it comes to the danny meyer idea that you can't teach people to care, you can only teach technical service.

Edited by Wemedge, 25 July 2009 - 07:47 AM.

[oakapple]

By chance, has anyone who has been to Marea ordered the "whole fish", which they price by the pound?
A few years back when Michael White was still at Fiamma, we ordered the "whole roast branzino".
The fish came out headless...

thats called "Bad service." if this is really what happened. even if it wasn't, that was your impression, and it sounds like they've got some attitude.

for a restaurant of marea's caliber, he should have went to the kitchen and got you a whole branzino head and presented it to your table with flourish. you did ask for it.

Just to be clear, I think the OP was referring to an incident at Fiamma, not at Marea. Michael White hasn't been at Fiamma for a long time.

[markabauman]

That's correct. That incident was at Fiamma. As mentioned, I didn't complain or make a stink about it- that's not my style. At least at Marea, it appeared that the presented the whole fish prior to cooking, then they presented the filets at service, which would be fine.

[sickchangeup]

Well, the obvious is now even more obvious. From Bruni himself:

"Maybe, during his tenure, he’ll elevate an Italian restaurant to the four-star pantheon. None is currently there"

(by his, he's referring to Sifton)

link

[BryanZ]

The blog post sickchangeup pulls that quote from is quite illuminating and is worth a read. It exactly addresses some of the issues we've been discussing here.

[sickchangeup]

Anyone else find it interesting that Bruni praised Marea's pasta ("The fusilli with tomato, octopus and bone marrow at Marea is a revelation") in one of his final columns, praised the Chef ("and an example of what makes Michael White such an inventive, intuitive master of pasta"), yet didn't review them when he had ample time to do so?

I get the feeling he would have had to give them an unfavorable star rating if he had been forced to file (for various issues discussed), but chose not to - hoping they would get a chance to iron out the kinks. That he didn't want to hurt them?

Anyone else have another interpretation?

[BryanZ]

Sounds about right to me. And based on early reports it seems that there's still a lot of variability in the experience that diners can have. We've always known that Bruni has kept abreast with blog chatter, but in the recent weeks he's been more forthcoming about how plugged in he was to the rest of the critical sphere, professional and amateur. Perhaps divergent opinions of his own and of others made him pass.

Edited by BryanZ, 27 August 2009 - 09:20 PM.

[oakapple]

Here's Bruni on the reasons he did not review Marea:

Regarding Marea, I don't want to say what I thought about a meal there, because I want Sam to make that determination. I did have a lot of thoughts about it, beyond whether it was good or bad, and I would have loved to have reviewed it. It was clear to me that I might be raising Eleven Madison to four stars—I very much wanted to do that on a personal level. I felt very strongly about that. I thought they deserved it. If the editors had said to me, "We really want you to review Marea," I would have done it. I basically said, "Here's my plan for my last four reviews," with the arguments for and against various choices. And I gave the arguments for and against Marea, and they said, "Why don't you skip Marea?" And if I had said, "No no no, I must!" they're respectful enough that they would have said yes. And I'm kind of bummed, because whether it's a two- or three- or four-star restaurant, I'm happy to say I enjoyed my meal there enough that I would have looked forward to going back.

He has said elsewhere that he didn't want to be seen as exiting with a big cymbal crash. After he had determined that there was no way Marea could get four stars (an easy call, IMO), he figured that one big splash in his final month (i.e., 4* at EMP) was enough.

I would not presume that skipping Marea was an act of kindness towards a restaurant destined to get two stars. Although opinions of this place haven't all been rapturous, Alan Richman (among others) thought it deserved four stars. I could quite easily imagine it getting the trifecta from Bruni.

[davythefatboy]

We tried this place last week for my wife's birthday. We're basic five ingredient Italian diners, don't usually go for fancy, and even worse, I'm a vegetarian at a fish place. The fried peppers I had to start could have been any tapas place in the city, the addition of lemon was a tiny change and underplayed. I think it was the only veggie starter offered. My wife had a crab appetizer that was in her words "too messed with".

I've heard that Michael White is an amazing pasta guy, so the Pansotti with stinging nettle pesto was quite a letdown. It doesn't help that I think that Pansotti are large thin ravioli with a healthy dose of greens inside them and a walnut sauce, and these were more like Capelletti or something with a runny ricotta filling in a dark murky pasty green sauce (the menu did describe the dish accurately, other than the name Pansotti). Sure stinging nettle sounds cool on a menu, but why bother if it isn't going to be delicious? It also doesn't help that the Pansotti at Babbo (which I've never seen there before) blew me away a few weeks ago (Babbo consistently impresses me on every third or fourth visit).

I can't remember the deserts.

Four stars? Not in any world I can imagine.

Edited by davythefatboy, 29 August 2009 - 10:15 AM.

[AlexForbes]

Mike Peed reviews Marea in this week's New Yorker. Not sure what to make of the review... He spends too much time trying to be funny and not enough words on whether what he ate was good or not. Lobster salad with burrata and eggplant? "Springy" and "healthful". Seafood soup? Mussels, clams etc came in a "weak tomato sauce". Spinosi pasta with langoustine? Came with one of the langoustine's eyeballs. Zuchini cake? "Splendid". Many lines are devoted to explaining the huge cost of FEDEXing all the seafood in from all over and how the place cost Michael White and his partner 4.5 million.

After a second read, my impression is that he didn't think much of Marea - but didn't really want to say it, for fear of dissing a chef that all his peers seem to put on a pedestal.

Edited by AlexForbes, 31 August 2009 - 06:28 AM.

[oakapple]

Mike Peed reviews Marea in this week's New Yorker. Not sure what to make of the review... He spends too much time trying to be funny and not enough words on whether what he ate was good or not.

I find that most of the New Yorker reviews are like that.

[checkplease]

Best thing to do here is to sit at the bar or at the crudo counter and order 2 or so crudo dishes (most are pretty outstanding) and a glass of wine. Maybe a pasta too, depending on time of day, but you can try some of White's best dishes without spend loads of time/money here if you don't commit to a full-on dinner.

[flyingsaucier]

Agreed. Let's hope the new critic would be the complete opposite of Bruni..( who obviously prefers Italian food).

[tb86]

strange review they are pretty middle of the road it, reads more like a menu list than a review. He sure didn't come out and say what he was thinking positive or negative

[Ochowie]

So with the three star review and some more recent feedback I figured it would be a good time to try Marea last night. My mother was in town and for some reason I had spaced out and not made a reservation at the bar room at the Modern (our first choice). So after we found that restaurant packed I gave Marea a call and they said that they had plenty of space at the crudo bar. Overall I am mixed about my experience at Marea. While the dishes I selected (Lobster Burrata, Fusilli with octupus and marrow, and the John Dory) were good and in some cases excellent, my mother's dishes (Ouvo, Risotto Mare, and the Dover Sole) were less inspiring and in the case of the Risotto downright bad. And this brought up the major issue of the night, service. I'm not sure if it was because we were sitting at the crudo bar or because of our server but I thought service was really weak and really not acceptable for a restaurant at that price point.

So the first issue occurred with our pre dinner drinks. While my wine was served promptly, my mother's cocktail did not appear until after the second course and after I specifically asked about it. The waiter brought it to her without so much as an apology. Furthermore my water was not refilled for pretty much the entire night. The runner appeared with the water jug at the beginning of the meal and then right before dessert ignoring all the times he came by with bread and saw my empty water glass sitting there.

Finally, the thing that really ruined our experience. I am not sure that this is entirely a service issue but the way the Risotto was handled was very poor. Upon receiving her Risotto, my mother had an uncomfortable look on her face and when I asked her the problem she said the risotto was incredibly undercooked. Thinking that she was exaggerating I tasted a little bit of it and much to my shock and dismay the Risotto was so undercooked that if the chef were to pass it off as rice it would still be very much not ready. When we sent it back (something we hardly ever do) the waiters response, after checking with the chef (who tasted) it was that is how the chef makes it. Now, I am a huge fan of Chef White (who I am not sure was in the kitchen) but I laughed out loud when I heard this. The dish was so bad that I heard it crunch in my mouth when I tasted it. Then the waiter offered to bring the dish back out to the table a ridiculous offer after the chef and who knows who else tasted the dish. Finally the waiter offered to bring out another pasta but after we left the restaurant we became convinced that he had added on that pasta course as an extra (something I did not see on the itemized receipt but I didn't look that closely at.

In all, given these issues I doubt I will be back to this restaurant anytime soon.

[syrah girl]

Thanks for the report on Marea, we were considering this restaurant for one of our 3 dinners in the city. :)

[oakapple]

I've been to Marea four times now. I've never had any service issues, but the food is uneven, and at its best is never spectacular.

There are three Chris Cannon/Michael White restaurants in Manhattan, each with three NYT stars. The four-course prix fixe is $59 at Convivio, $79 at Alto, and $89 at Marea. We visited Convivio last week and found it better than Marea, and it's $40 less.

Based on a persusal of the online menus, the style of cuisine seems to be roughly equivalent at all three places. It's not like comparing Perry St. vs. Jean Georges, or Café Boulud vs. Daniel, where there is a pronounced difference. All three offer a Creekstone Farms sirloin, but the prices are $35, $41, and $47 respectively, with Marea being the most expensive.

Although Marea was supposed to be Michael White's shot a four-star place, I don't think it approaches that. You can have three-star food here if you order well and if the kitchen doesn't fall into a funk. But of course, it should not be that way.

[mugsy]

Although Marea was supposed to be Michael White's shot a four-star place, I don't think it approaches that. You can have three-star food here if you order well and if the kitchen doesn't fall into a funk. But of course, it should not be that way.

you should never have to "order well" to get three star food... what ever you order should be up to standards, or it's not three star... btw risotto was crunchy, why does everyone need to taste it, it wasn't done right so cook it correctly, simple solution, no need for a panel to determine whether it was cooked right, the table thought it wasn't, and thats all that matters!

[oakapple]

Although Marea was supposed to be Michael White's shot a four-star place, I don't think it approaches that. You can have three-star food here if you order well and if the kitchen doesn't fall into a funk. But of course, it should not be that way.

you should never have to "order well" to get three star food...

Oh, I totally agree, and I hope you didn't interpret me to be saying otherwise.

However, there is a meaningful distinction between a restaurant with high ambitions that achieves them intermittently, and one that simply doesn't have those ambitions at all. I would hasten to add that there are many things about Marea that I enjoy (why else would I have been there four times?) -- I am not yet persuaded that it's a three-star restaurant.

[Ochowie]

you should never have to "order well" to get three star food... what ever you order should be up to standards, or it's not three star... btw risotto was crunchy, why does everyone need to taste it, it wasn't done right so cook it correctly, simple solution, no need for a panel to determine whether it was cooked right, the table thought it wasn't, and thats all that matters!

You know, I didn't want to get into it with the waiter (as I've been known to) and ruin an otherwise nice evening but really this is how I felt as well. No offense to the chef, we paid well over $100 per person last night and at those prices "that's how we make our risotto here" is just not a valid answer. The only thing that really stopped me from getting angry is the understanding (is this true?) that it's not really possible to redo the risotto if it's undercooked.

[oakapple]

The only thing that really stopped me from getting angry is the understanding (is this true?) that it's not really possible to redo the risotto if it's undercooked.

I think what you mean is that it cannot be fixed without just starting over again. Of course, given their attitude that it had already been done correctly, chances are you'd get the same result.

The problem is that risottos generally take about 20 minutes to prepare. So there you are, with everyone else at the table already served. You have to watch them eat, and 20 minutes later they'll watch you eat. That's the problem when just one person sends back a dish (even when it's not a risotto), and the reason why most people don't do it.

I once had a service issue like that at Gramercy Tavern, and the manager said, "If that ever happened again, I would re-cook everyone's pasta. But there are very few places that will do that.

[Mussina]

Had lunch here yesterday and it was outstanding. I am still thinking about a couple of the dishes. Started with the lobster and burrata (you cannot go wrong with this) and the calamari stuffed with spaghetti squash (simply terrific). Followed by a couple of pastas - the octopus and bone marrow is haunting me still and the uni spaghetti (the only dish that failed to delight - I love urchin and it was not evident enough in this dish for my taste but it was still very nice). Ended with the skate and sea bass. Both were perfectly prepared and the flavors were spot on. Finished with a zucchini dessert which I did not have room for. The bread was also really first rate. We did the two courses plus one add on and I found the portions to be more than enough food. I actually would probably only do two courses next time. I had apprehensions about this meal given the previous comments (and the fact that it is so close to Jean-Georges and, being a creature of habit and a lover of all things J-G, I kept returning my favorite lunch spot rather than trying something new but it was seriously memorable. We had dinner at ko last night (also terrific) but I must confess that the octopus and bone marrow pasta is what I keep replaying in my mind. I am sorry to hear that it doesn't seem to deliver all the time because it was a sensational experience.

Edited by Mussina, 11 November 2009 - 12:11 PM.

[Ochowie]

Had lunch here yesterday and it was outstanding. I am still thinking about a couple of the dishes. Started with the lobster and burrata (you cannot go wrong with this) and the calamari stuffed with spaghetti squash (simply terrific). Followed by a couple of pastas - the octopus and bone marrow is haunting me still and the uni spaghetti (the only dish that failed to delight - I love urchin and it was not evident enough in this dish for my taste but it was still very nice). Ended with the skate and sea bass. Both were perfectly prepared and the flavors were spot on. Finished with a zucchini dessert which I did not have room for. The bread was also really first rate. We did the two courses plus one add on and I found the portions to be more than enough food. I actually would probably only do two courses next time. I had apprehensions about this meal given the previous comments (and the fact that it is so close to Jean-Georges and, being a creature of habit and a lover of all things J-G, I kept returning my favorite lunch spot rather than trying something new but it was seriously memorable. We had dinner at ko last night (also terrific) but I must confess that the octopus and bone marrow pasta is what I keep replaying in my mind. I am sorry to hear that it doesn't seem to deliver all the time because it was a sensational experience.

I have to say despite any problems I had at Marea, the lobster and burrata was really terrific. Two of my favorite items together in one dish.

[GlorifiedRice]

So has anyone made the Octopus Marrow Fusilli dish successfully at home?
If so, care to share?