75 replies to this topic

[bpearis]

Isn't there a plaque of the official recipe on some government building in Bologna?

[therdogg]

Instead of tearing lasagne noodles, just make a lasagne with bechamel sauce, which by the time you've made the bolognese and are preparing to tear sheets of lasagne is hardly much more work but is delish, especially if you're serving someone who's only had the american marinara-too-much-cheese-n-sausage version. Making your own pasta is necessary for delicate flavor.

[bushey]

Jeez, this is double-weird. I made Bolognese last night and hadn't even read this thread.

I prefer beef and veal, but beef and pork will do in a pinch. If I have lots of time I cook the sauce slowly and let all of each liquid cook out before adding the next. I like bay leaf and a bit of tomato paste. I use a potato masher to get the right texture. Definitely cream, added a little bit at a time to get the consistency and flavor I want. Fresh grated nutmeg and black pepper right before serving. I also like to add some frozen peas at the end because it reminds me of a favorite dish at a local restaueant, Rigatoni alla Nonna.

[Jason Perlow]

Isn't there a plaque of the official recipe on some government building in Bologna?

Yes, I think there is. It was on an episode of Mario Eats Italy, I wish I wrote it down.

[Jason Perlow]

Batali Ragu alla Bolognese recipe:

http://www.foodnetwo...6_12058,00.html

I trust Mario not to screw with it, so its probably pretty authentic.

[SobaAddict70]

I've seen versions that call for cooking cubes of beef and pork first, then shredding the meat by hand. Also, one version (Julia Della Croce's, unsure as to which of her cookbooks) calls for mortadella or other type of sausage. I'd imagine that testa would work as well.

Soba

[bpearis]

Isn't there a plaque of the official recipe  on some government building in Bologna?

Yes, I think there is. It was on an episode of Mario Eats Italy, I wish I wrote it down.

...and the width of tagliatelle is directly proportionate to the height of one of Bologna's towers. Here's the recipe from that episode of Mario Eats Italy. It's somewhat different and more detailed than other Mario recipe Jason listed.

Edited by bpearis, 16 December 2003 - 02:31 PM.

[FoodMan]

I always use Mario Batali’s recipe:
Carrots, celery, onion, beef, veal, pancetta, white wine, milk, a little tomato paste, in this order (I think). The result is a nice thick pink meat sauce, not tomato-y at all.

Elie

[Jason Perlow]

The Batali recipe above that I linked to calls for "Brodo" which is simply just meat or veal broth I think.

[badthings]

Tagliatelle or lasagne only.

Marcella's 3 essential points:

1. The meat must be sautéed just barely long enough to lose its raw color. It must not brown or it will lose its delicacy. 2. It must be cooked in milk before the tomatoes are added. This keeps the meat creamier and sweeter tasting. 3. It must cook at the merest simmer for a long, long time. The minimum is 3 1/2 hours; 5 is better.

[bilrus]

Batali Ragu alla Bolognese recipe:

http://www.foodnetwo...6_12058,00.html

I trust Mario not to screw with it, so its probably pretty authentic.

The stuff he serves at Babbo is pretty damn good - purely authentic or not.

[bpearis]

It must cook at the merest simmer for a long, long time. The minimum is 3 1/2 hours; 5 is better.

Seems like Sam Kinsey's crock pot idea would indeed be the perfect way to handle that last requirement. I'm officially hungry.

[Adam Balic]

Beef and pork, veal if I can get it. I cook the sauce for about four hours, so the ground beef breaks down, while the pork maintains texture. Always, red wine and milk, sometimes chicken livers. Best with wide pasta. Depending on the sauce, I may corrct for sweetness level with a pinch of sugar. I use canned tomatos and they are often not sweet enough.

One tip is that when about to serve, scoop off about a cup of the very fatty surface sauce and place this into the pasta pot (now lacking pasta and water) and "fry" the sauce on a high heat. Mixe the pasta with re-fried sauce and add the other sauce seperately. This frying step gives you an extra level of flavour and the fats split from the sauce and coat the pasta strands.

[slkinsey]

Beef and pork, veal if I can get it. I cook the sauce for about four hours, so the ground beef breaks down, while the pork maintains texture. Always, red wine and milk, sometimes chicken livers.

Tasty! Am I the only one who likes the ragù of chicken livers, chicken gizzards and other unmentionables that goes into the Marchegiano specialty Vicigrassi?

[Adam Balic]

Beef and pork, veal if I can get it. I cook the sauce for about four hours, so the ground beef breaks down, while the pork maintains texture. Always, red wine and milk, sometimes chicken livers.

Tasty! Am I the only one who likes the ragù of chicken livers, chicken gizzards and other unmentionables that goes into the Marchegiano specialty Vicigrassi?

99% of Vicigrassi lack all the interesting bits and end up being an anemic version of Lasagne al Forno.

One version of the basic recipe uses Vin Santo in the pasta, which is good, but better used in the sauce.

[tommy]

adam brings up something that makes me think: what are some of the actual goals of this sauce?

every time i've made it, it never meets my expectations. i think this is because my expectations are way out of wack. adam mentions the beef "breaking down". is this one of the goals?

[FoodMan]

what are some of the actual goals of this sauce?

Taste very good with pasta

Elie

[itch22]

what are some of the actual goals of this sauce?

Taste very good with pasta

Elie

I agree! However, with all of these variations I wonder what acctually defines a bolognese sauce. Definitions aside, all of these variations are great tasting!

[Adam Balic]

adam brings up something that makes me think: what are some of the actual goals of this sauce?

every time i've made it, it never meets my expectations. i think this is because my expectations are way out of wack. adam mentions the beef "breaking down". is this one of the goals?

Tell what your expectations are and I will tell you how they are wrong.

Didn't you go to Italy recently? What did you think of the Ragu there?

[slkinsey]

One thing I think is a common mistaken ragù expectation among Americans is that it will be tomatoey.

[Adam Balic]

Oh yeah, I always add a few scrapes of nutmeg to the sauce, about 20 minutes before serving.

Some ragu don't contain tomato at all.

[sammy]

adam brings up something that makes me think: what are some of the actual goals of this sauce?

every time i've made it, it never meets my expectations. i think this is because my expectations are way out of wack. adam mentions the beef "breaking down". is this one of the goals?

I haven't had bolognese that has met expectations since having lasagne verde at a restaurant in Rome 11 years ago.

A few restaurants here have gotten close, but none equal to that lunch I had 11 years ago. It was unbelievably good and I'll remember it forever.

[itch22]

Taking everyone's great advice, I made the bolognese with very little tomato and milk (among many other changes) but it was not as well liked as my original recipe. I liked the new one, but I can't say which was better because they were so different.

I think I will try to find a middle ground between the traditional meat ragu and the American tomato version.

*EDITED for spelling.

Edited by itch22, 22 December 2003 - 01:36 PM.

[tommy]

my bolognese came out pretty good. i used some tips from this thread, with Marcella's recipe as a guideline (white wine, nutmeg, milk, beef, pork).

the dish, while not tomatoey, was very rich and had a good, deep flavor. took a few hours, and it didn't yeild much. i'll probably try to double the recipe next time.

[sammy]

Looks good. It's probably just the photography but I would expect it to look more oily. Part of that fat separating from the meat goal discussed above.

And you're right, it never makes as much as you think. Lots of "shrinkage" as George Costanza would say.

[tommy]

i was expecting a lot of oil as well. i did some skimming, but not a whole lot. although oil will add flavor and mouthfeel, and i wouldn't have been totally against a more oily dish, i was quite pleased with the lack of oiliness this time around. nuthin' a little drizzle of olive oil couldn't cure.

[slkinsey]

I take care of the oiliness factor by A) including ground pancetta as one of my meats, and B) starting the whole thing with insane amounts of both butter and evoo.


Looks delicious, Tommy.

[tommy]

so is oiliness one of those goals that no one really mentioned the last time i asked?

[slkinsey]

Heh... I don't know if it's a goal per se. When I make it, it's just a consequence. I also use fairly fatty cuts of meat.

[albie]

The whole question of ``authentic" ragu Bolognese gets right to the heart of the Italian approach to cooking. In contrast with the strict codification of recipes for the classic French dishes such as tripes a la mode di Caen, for example
there are dozens if not hundred of variations on the basic ``Bolognese" theme.

Beyond a general agreement that one begins with a saute' of mirepoix, usually in butter or a combination of butter and olive oil together with some finely diced pancetta a subsequent deglazing with wine and the addition of chopped meats -- veal, beef, pork and the introduction of some stock (chicken, veal or beef), there's considerable-- and often vehement -- disagreement as to the other elements.

When I worked for an Italian multinational company, I had a Bolognese colleague that insisted that no tomato product was ever to be used. Others argue for the use of a bit of tomato paste; still others for puree in varying amounts.
Some say chicken livers are an essential component; not infrequently nutmeg and cloves are used in the seasoning.

For my taste, I believe a foundation of fine minced mirepoix inthe classic proportion prepared as described above, i.e. sauted in a butter/oil mi along with a handful of equally finely diced pancetta, is the essential element. Once the mixture is softened and reduced to near-caramelization, I add stir in a few tablespoons of tomato paste, turn up the heat as high as I dare for a minute or two and then immediately deglaze with white wine..... then on to the mixed chopped meats and I like the chicken liver addition. Once browned, more wine then chicken stock, seasonings: salt, pepper, nutmeg, bay leaf. Finish with a bit of cream.