52 replies to this topic

[slkinsey]

One doesn't have to use a cast iron skillet to make roux, however. Any heavy saucepan will do. And, indeed, since large wide space is not needed for adding/cooking additional ingredients, a narrower/taller cooking vessel like a heavy saucepan would offer greater control. I have used the ice-bath method to stop the browning of a caramel many times. I make caramel in a large, heavy copper saucepan that will be as hot as any flour-and-fat roux that is not burned (375F is about the right temperature of dark caramel, 350F is typical of a dark roux). So far, nothing bad has ever happened when I put the hot pan into the ice bath. Indeed, this is a standard method for rapid cooling.

Edited by slkinsey, 18 December 2008 - 09:03 AM.

[HungryC]

Generally, a wide, shallow vessel is preferred by traditional cooks for roux-making. According to folk wisdom, a deep, narrow pot makes it difficult to gauge the color of the roux; it is also considered much easier to burn a dark roux in a narrow pot, as the flour will settle more thickly in its bottom. Sure, you don't need cast iron--but you do need a pot with a smooth, blemish-free bottom surface. A pot with a gouged & dented bottom, or even one with deep scratches, will almost certainly lead to a burned roux. Those tiny flour particles catch in the crevices, and no amount of stirring will dislodge them. It only take a small bit of burned stuff to make the whole pan taste of it.

[slkinsey]

I certainly wouldn't suggest that one try to make several cups of roux in a 5 inch diameter pot. But I'd think that a 9 inch saucepot with decent thermal characteristics and a stainless interior would (1) be a lot easier to judge the level of browning than a cast iron skillet; (2) undoubtedly have a much more "flawless" interior; and (3) would have more even heat (I have yet to find a piece of cast iron cookware thick enough to avoid a "heat ring").

[joiei]

Maybe this Link to John Folse will help answer some of your alls questions about roux. John Folse is a well regarded authority on all Food related things from South Louisiana. His knowledge of food history is amazing.

Back to the topic,

In Cajun and Creole cuisine, the roux has been raised to a new dimension never before experienced in other forms of cooking.

Butter, lard, peanut oil, bacon fat and even duck fat have been used in combination with flour to produce as many taste and color variations as there are cooks in South Louisiana. In classical cuisine, the brown roux is used for brown sauce, the blonde roux for veloutes and the white roux is used for bechamels. In Creole cuisine, a brown roux is made from butter or bacon fat and is used to thicken gumbos and stews requiring a light touch. The Cajuns, on the other hand, are the originators of the most unique rouxs in modern cookery.

The Cajun dark brown roux is best made with vegetable oil, although in the past, it was thought imperative that only animal fat be used. The flour and oil are cooked together until the roux reaches a caramel color. This roux has less thickening power. Thus, the thickening capabilities of the dark roux are diminished. The dark brown roux is the secret to traditional Cajun food because of the richness and depth it adds to the dish. Butter is used in classical and Creole rouxs, however, the Cajuns use only vegetable oil or lard to produce their lighter colored roux. Tan in appearance, these light rouxs are used primarily with vegetables and light meat dishes.

In his discussion, Chef Folse talks about oil-less roux and makes this recommendation

NOTE: I recommend oil-less roux manufactured and sold by Bruce Foods and Savoie’s. Bruce Foods is located in New Iberia, Louisiana (318) 365-8101 and Savoie’s is located in Opelousas, Louisiana (318) 942-7241.

Here Chef Folse talks about the roux's of South Louisiana

THE CREOLE ROUX

The Creole roux can be made with lightly salted butter, bacon drippings or lard. As with everything regarding food in Louisiana, whenever someone attempts to reduce this wealth of food lore to written material, an argument breaks out. Let's just say that Creole rouxs vary in color the same as Classical and Cajun ones. The Creoles, however, did have in their pantry, butter for the roux, whereas any butter a Cajun had would be saved for a biscuit or cornbread and
never put in the black iron pot for a roux.

If a comparison statement can be made, it would be that generally speaking, Creole roux is darker in color than the classical French brown roux it descended from but not as dark as the Cajun dark roux.

THE LIGHT BROWN CAJUN ROUX

1/2 cup oil
1/2 cup flour

In a black iron pot or skillet, heat the oil over medium high heat to approximately 300 degrees F. Using a wooden roux spoon, slowly add the flour, stirring constantly until the roux is peanut butter in color, approximately two minutes. This roux is normally used to thicken vegetable dishes such as corn maque choux (shrimp, corn and tomato stew) or butter beans with ham. If
using this roux to thicken an etouffee, it will thicken approximately two quarts of liquid. If used to thicken seafood gumbo, it will thicken approximately two and a half quarts of stock.

THE DARK BROWN CAJUN ROUX

1 cup oil
1/2 cup flour

Proceed as you would in the light brown Cajun roux recipe but continue cooking until the roux is the color of a light caramel. This roux should almost be twice as dark as the light brown roux but not as dark as chocolate. You should remember that the darker the roux gets, the less thickening power it holds and the roux tends to become bitter. This roux is used most often in sauce piquantes, crawfish bisques and gumbos. However, it is perfectly normal to use the dark brown roux in any dish in Cajun cooking.

This roux gives food such a rich character that I sometimes make shrimp and corn bisque with it, as well as a river road seafood gumbo that will knock your socks off. Slow cooking is essential to achieve that dark, rich color.

Some time ago, I was discussing the origin of the dark roux with my good friend, Angus McIntosh, a chef and aspiring Cajun. I've always contended that because the Cajuns cooked in black iron pots over open fires using lard as a base, the dark roux was discovered by accident when the fire got too hot and the flour over-browned. With their lean pantries in mind, the Cajuns kept the roux instead of discarding it. They enjoyed the flavor and kept doing it that way. Classical cookbooks written as far back as the mid-1500s state that roux is derived from the French word "rouge" meaning "red" or "reddish" in color. Thus, the origin of the name. Angus felt that it developed during the Cajun's less affluent years as a means of enriching a soup or stew with flavor when the pantry was not as full but the number of chairs at the table were many. Either way, if properly done, the dark Cajun roux enriches food with color and flavor that is so fantastic it could only be Cajun.

So apparently even Chef Folse is not averse to having a little store bought helper on hand for occasions.

I noticed he also uses a cast iron pot or skillet when making his darker rouxs.

As to keeping roux here is what he recommends

It should be noted that the butter or oil base rouxs may be made well in advance, cooled, separated into half cup portions and placed in the refrigerator or freezer. The roux will keep well for months and always be available to you should an emergency arise.

Edited by joiei, 18 December 2008 - 03:31 PM.

[Peter the eater]

I could mistake homemade roux for storebought, but if a skilled Cajun elder made it before my eyes I'm sure it would just be better.

No time to make a roux? Try my method, faster than a cowboy whitewash:

1. put 1/4 cup water in a glass jar
2. add 1/8 cup canola oil
3. dump 2 or 3 tablespoons flour
4. microwave on high for 20 - 45 seconds, depending on your magnetron
5. shake/stir

[Timh]

Since some folks are just bent on making their own, how about going the extra step and adding the trinity to cool it down and then freezing portions of that? One more step of "home made convenience" done.

[Eden]

[quote name='Peter the eater' date='Dec 18 2008, 06:40 PM']No time to make a roux? Try my method, faster than a cowboy whitewash:

1. put 1/4 cup water in a glass jar
2. add 1/8 cup canola oil
3. dump 2 or 3 tablespoons flour
4. microwave on high for 20 - 45 seconds, depending on your magnetron
5. shake/stir[/quote]

Interesting idea. I just googled and found both endorsments of this method, and warnings against it: [quote name='http://www.cheftalk.com/forums/food-cooking-questions-discussion/13126-microwave-roux.html']Pyrex recommends against it. Cook's illustrated blew up a tempered glass Pyrex measuring cup doing it. [/quote]

[HungryC]

The microwave roux does have an element of danger: it is exceedingly easy to burn, especially if you're going any shade past peanut butter. I made one over the Thanksgiving holidays that burned in the half-a-second it took me to press the opening latch on the microwave and remove the bowl from the oven. It was amazing to see something go from pale to carbonized literally within a few eye blinks.

[Peter the eater]

Interesting idea.  I just googled and found both endorsments of this method, and warnings against it:

I never thought to google it. I came across this technique by accident in my own kitchen. I enjoy making roux the traditional way, so I rarely use this novel approach.

I've tried it with a few different flours types -- rice was a disaster, all-purpose white is best. The flour has to go on top of the oil, and it works better with a broad and shallow container -- so the layers are thinner.

[Eden]

I've tried it with a few different flours types -- rice was a disaster, all-purpose white is best.

This brings up an interesting question to me as I occasionally cook for gluten intolerant friends: What other grains CAN you make a roux with?

Does rice flour work outside the microwave? (white or bown?)

What about corn or potato or amaranth or chickpea?

I'm sure that wheat is the best but are there acceptable alternatives?

[Peter the eater]

I've tried it with a few different flours types -- rice was a disaster, all-purpose white is best.

This brings up an interesting question to me as I occasionally cook for gluten intolerant friends: What other grains CAN you make a roux with?

Does rice flour work outside the microwave? (white or bown?)

What about corn or potato or amaranth or chickpea?

I'm sure that wheat is the best but are there acceptable alternatives?

My trials were far from scientific, but I agree it's worth investigating. The white rice flour turned into something like wallpaper paste. I think corn starch worked.

Also, my microwave results are not as consistent as they are with old school roux. Sometimes an explosive boil in the microwave makes a big mess, or a Ghostbusteresque slime.

[HungryC]

I've tried it with a few different flours types -- rice was a disaster, all-purpose white is best.

This brings up an interesting question to me as I occasionally cook for gluten intolerant friends: What other grains CAN you make a roux with?

Does rice flour work outside the microwave? (white or bown?)

What about corn or potato or amaranth or chickpea?

I'm sure that wheat is the best but are there acceptable alternatives?

Consensus on my stretch of the bayou points to rice flour as an acceptable substitute (browned in the oven or on the stovetop, not in the microwave). Several gluten-insensitive older people have mentioned it to me. I don't think I've run across any folks using chickpea, potato, or amaranth.

Cornstarch's qualities are so utterly and completely different--both physically and chemically--I can't see it browning at all, and it imparts a distinctive mouthfeel quite objectionable to traditional cooks. In fact, the use of cornstarch as a thickener will get you talked about--and not in a good way. As in "what a waste of seafood--they put CORNSTARCH in their crawfish etouffee. Eat before you go to visit them!"

[Eden]

no cornstarch, check!

Thanks! I will try the rice flour at some point.

[Mayhaw Man]

I've tried it with a few different flours types -- rice was a disaster, all-purpose white is best.

This brings up an interesting question to me as I occasionally cook for gluten intolerant friends: What other grains CAN you make a roux with?

Does rice flour work outside the microwave? (white or bown?)

What about corn or potato or amaranth or chickpea?

I'm sure that wheat is the best but are there acceptable alternatives?

Consensus on my stretch of the bayou points to rice flour as an acceptable substitute (browned in the oven or on the stovetop, not in the microwave). Several gluten-insensitive older people have mentioned it to me. I don't think I've run across any folks using chickpea, potato, or amaranth.

Cornstarch's qualities are so utterly and completely different--both physically and chemically--I can't see it browning at all, and it imparts a distinctive mouthfeel quite objectionable to traditional cooks. In fact, the use of cornstarch as a thickener will get you talked about--and not in a good way. As in "what a waste of seafood--they put CORNSTARCH in their crawfish etouffee. Eat before you go to visit them!"

After The Thing, I ended up cooking pretty regularly for someone who has celiac. We used rice flour all of the time for roux (we ate alotta home stuff for a while, as it just seemed right and there weren't that many places open yet). It works fine, though the ratios seem to be a bit different than with a.p. flour. It seemed that I had to use a bit more than one to one as the flour thinned out differently than a.p. Worked fine though.

[Chaduke]

In fact, the use of cornstarch as a thickener will get you talked about--and not in a good way.  As in "what a waste of seafood--they put CORNSTARCH in their crawfish etouffee.  Eat before you go to visit them!"

Wow, I've never heard that one before. I've always found cornstarch to be great as a thickener as long as you mix it in cold water first. You also can use a lot less of it than flour which decreases the likelihood of it adding unwanted flavor.

Of course I can't understand why someone would put it in crawfish etouffee, that doesn't make sense to me at all. I mostly use it when I make rice and gravy from green (fresh) sausage or a chaudin, where the gravy is often thin. It's very commonly used in Chinese hot and sour soup as well.

[ojisan]

How do you use pre-made roux in a gumbo?
Do you add it at the end to thicken the "soup"? At the beginning?
Do you have to dilute with water first, as you would with cornstarch? Or do you drop a lump of it into the pot?

[highchef]

You add it to the stock (water, if you must) and let it simmer for 30min. or so. It does not 'thicken' as much as give body. How much is dictated by taste. to 2 quarts of stock I usually put in about 8 heaping tablespoons or more. This is considerably more than the jar calls for, but I cannot stand a long gumbo. The trinity goes in after the roux has been on for a while. This is another change up from the traditional, but does not really affect the end result. Maybe a purist could tell the veggies wern't sauteed in the roux, but to it's credit, I don't get the odd burnt onion bit either.
If you're a novice, or have limited experience with how a real gumbo should be, use the measurements on the jar. I'd hate to be the one that ruined your attempt by encouraging too much roux, but honestly...I usually at least double what they call for. And that's a dark roux. It's a matter of taste I guess.

edit: the usual

Edited by highchef, 21 January 2009 - 08:31 AM.

[PopsicleToze]

How do you use pre-made roux in a gumbo?
Do you add it at the end to thicken the "soup"? At the beginning?
Do you have to dilute with water first, as you would with cornstarch? Or do you drop a lump of it into the pot?

When I use a premade roux for a gumbo, I saute the trinity first in a large cast iron fryer with high sides (not sure what it's called -- we call it a "chicken fryer"). After the trinity is sauteed, I add the roux from the jar to the skillet. It's separated with some oil on top and the flour portion packed pretty tightly in the jar. It comes out in big clumps. I smash out all of the lumps and get everything up to heat again. I whisk in stock to make a thick liquid -- then transfer all to a pot big enough for gumbo -- add the rest of the stock and seasonings and take it from there like you would on any gumbo.

[Florida]

Not to step on highchef's toes, but I would strongly recommend sauteeing, or at least sweating, your trinity first. Then add either your stock or pre-made roux, depending on your preference. Just note, its best to add either a cold stock to a hot roux or a cold roux to a hot stock, but not to add a hot stock to a hot roux.

[HungryC]

When making a home-sized gumbo and premade roux, I do brown the veggies and add the liquid, then the roux. For big pots (20 quarts or more), I boil the veggies in the liquid, then add room temp premade roux. The difference in taste is insignificant, to my palate; but I am also relying on high-quality smoked meats to deliver the browned, savory notes. Browned veggies are more important when you have substandard smoked sausage/tasso/andouille, or if you aren't using bone-in, browned chicken/turkey.

[highchef]

Not to step on highchef's toes, but I would strongly recommend sauteeing, or at least sweating, your trinity first.  Then add either your stock or pre-made roux, depending on your preference. Just note, its best to add either a cold stock to a hot roux or a cold roux to a hot stock, but not to add a hot stock to a hot roux.

I agree. I don't know anyone who follows the recipe on the roux jar exactly, which reads to throw them in after. I think most of us were taught to add veggies to halt the browning in the roux, then add your stock.
The whole idea of the jarred roux is to eliminate a step in the gumbo making process, not screwing it up. Sweating the trinity first is for sure the richer option.
good weather for gumbo.

[jess mebane]

God Bless John Folse! I have been passing his jambalaya receipt off as family bible stuff for a decade now (One from his old PBS show, not book---too sanitized for practicality). Having said that, I would be utterly at a loss as to how best use a jar rooo. Does it have icky amts of salt?

Sidebar: anyone going by donaldsonville? Got Folse's big book I want signed.

[highchef]

first ingredient listed is flour(s), then oil(soy bean)...pretty much it.
Sorry, haven't been thru Donaldsonville since McNeese played Nichols.
I want the new book, thought I'd get it for my birthday, but I guess I didn't let drop enough hints. But....that's why God made American Express and Amazon.com!! Then again, last cookbook I ordered from his site directly and it came autographed!!! There's a blank on the order-form or something, but what a nice thing for him to do!