Jump to content


Welcome to the eG Forums!

These forums are a service of the Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, a 501c3 nonprofit organization dedicated to advancement of the culinary arts. Anyone can read the forums, however if you would like to participate in active discussions please join the society.

Photo

The Martini


  • Please log in to reply
272 replies to this topic

#61 aspicLove

aspicLove
  • legacy participant
  • 4 posts

Posted 01 July 2003 - 10:20 AM

DrinkBoy, I noticed on your website you included a recipe for making one's own bitters from Charles H. Baker's book.
Have you actually attempted that recipe?
In Chinese markets one can get dried orange peel to be used for eating or cooking that might be macerated in some spirit to make a bitter....

#62 GregORear

GregORear
  • participating member
  • 6 posts

Posted 02 July 2003 - 10:34 AM

OK, here's one I call the Vagabond, © 2003 Greg O'Rear. :smile:

1. Put some crushed ice in a shaker.
2. Add a splash of vermouth and a couple of generous dashes of Angostura bitters.
3. Shake well, then strain off the liquid.
4. Add an ounce or so of good gin (I use Tanqueray No. 10 straight from the freezer).
5. Shake well, then strain into a chilled martini glass.
6. Spear an olive and an onion with a toothpick and drop in the glass.
7. Top off the glass with very cold, very fresh club soda.

It's sort of a pink gin martini/gibson and soda, but the name derives from the recipe (more or less):

Vermouth
And
Gin
Angostura
Bitters
Olive
oNion
soDa

Remember, this recipe is copyrighted, so every time you drink a Vagabond, you owe me 10% of your inebriation. :blink:

#63 Busboy

Busboy
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,426 posts
  • Location:Washington, DC

Posted 02 July 2003 - 11:28 AM

To the few die-hards who absolutely cannot stomach a martini as described above... there is nothing wrong with pouring gin or vodka straight out of the freezer into a chilled cocktail class and plopping in an olive, twist or other garnish.  Just don't call it a martini.

But I do call it a martini -- and after two, I'll be ready to trade blows with anyone who dares deny me the right to do so. After three, I'll be asleep.

Another, more civilized, martini variation is a good shot poured on the rocks, just enough scotch to get a little taste, and a twist. My friends father called it a "silver bullet" and was routinely detailed to fill the thermos with them for boating parties.
I'm on the pavement
Thinking about the government.

#64 Meow-Mix

Meow-Mix
  • legacy participant
  • 43 posts

Posted 08 October 2003 - 07:02 PM

What's the best vermouth to use in a Martini?

#65 beans

beans
  • legacy participant
  • 2,836 posts

Posted 08 October 2003 - 07:07 PM

Welcome to eG Meow Mix! :smile:

Check out this discussion: Clickety Here

I hope that helps. Enjoy!

#66 Meow-Mix

Meow-Mix
  • legacy participant
  • 43 posts

Posted 09 October 2003 - 12:36 PM

Thanks beans, that thread had what I was looking for.

Edited by Meow-Mix, 09 October 2003 - 01:06 PM.


#67 Meow-Mix

Meow-Mix
  • legacy participant
  • 43 posts

Posted 10 October 2003 - 02:08 PM

What's your preference -- shaken or stirred ?

Anyone subscribe to the "stirring is superior because shaking bruises the gin" theory ?

#68 Busboy

Busboy
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,426 posts
  • Location:Washington, DC

Posted 10 October 2003 - 02:36 PM

Anyone subscribe to the "stirring is superior because shaking bruises the gin" theory ?

In my experience, the gin is far more likely to bruise me, than I am to bruise the gin, no matter how hard I shake it.
I'm on the pavement
Thinking about the government.

#69 beans

beans
  • legacy participant
  • 2,836 posts

Posted 10 October 2003 - 03:16 PM

:biggrin: Search Meow Mix!

This discussion may be found helpful...
http://forums.egulle...T&f=88&t=25247

Enjoy! Cheers!

#70 Ol' Dirty Chinaman

Ol' Dirty Chinaman
  • legacy participant
  • 14 posts

Posted 10 October 2003 - 05:06 PM

I wouldn't know why you would shake a martini, you'll just water it down.

The only times you should really shake a cocktail is when there's juice.

#71 DrinkBoy

DrinkBoy
  • participating member
  • 227 posts
  • Location:Seattle

Posted 10 October 2003 - 06:39 PM

Shaking does not "bruise" the gin... this was just a cute turn of phrase that has been turned into a religion :->

The purpose of both shaking and stiring is to chill the drink down -and- dilute it slightly with added water from the melted ice.

Shaking will chill the drink down faster then stiring.
Stiring doesn't dilute the drink as quickly as stiring.

Take these two facts together, and as long as you stir/shake long enough to chill to the same temperature, you also end up with "basically" the same amount of dilution. So from a technical standpoint there is no difference between the two.

However...

Shaking a drink will also trap air bubbles in the drink, and you will thusly end up with a "cloudy" drink when you pour it out. A stirred drink will pour out almost crystal clear.

So the rule of thumb, which few bartenders these days knows, is that if the drink is constructed with "transparent" ingredients, you stir it. If you add a non-transparent ingredient (ie: juice, cream, egg, etc.) then you might as well shake it, since it will end up cloudy either way.

-Robert Hess
www.DrinkBoy.com

#72 Meow-Mix

Meow-Mix
  • legacy participant
  • 43 posts

Posted 10 October 2003 - 08:16 PM

I wouldn't know why you would shake a martini, you'll just water it down.

The only times you should really shake a cocktail is when there's juice.

Tell that to James Bond. :laugh:

#73 Ol' Dirty Chinaman

Ol' Dirty Chinaman
  • legacy participant
  • 14 posts

Posted 11 October 2003 - 02:25 AM

I wouldn't know why you would shake a martini, you'll just water it down.

The only times you should really shake a cocktail is when there's juice.

Tell that to James Bond. :laugh:

Yeah I've always wondered about that, why Bond always orders his "Shaken, not stirred".

I assume because in the original novels it was more of a satire then a serious story.

#74 JAZ

JAZ
  • manager
  • 4,904 posts
  • Location:Atlanta

Posted 11 October 2003 - 08:42 AM

Shaking a drink will also trap air bubbles in the drink, and you will thusly end up with a "cloudy" drink when you pour it out. A stirred drink will pour out almost crystal clear.

So the rule of thumb, which few bartenders these days knows, is that if the drink is constructed with "transparent" ingredients, you stir it. If you add a non-transparent ingredient (ie: juice, cream, egg, etc.) then you might as well shake it, since it will end up cloudy either way.

-Robert Hess
www.DrinkBoy.com

Also, the trapped air bubbles will make the drink feel different in the mouth -- more "frothy" -- but this effect will dissipate as the air escapes.

#75 mrbigjas

mrbigjas
  • participating member
  • 3,573 posts

Posted 11 October 2003 - 09:00 AM

Also,  the trapped air bubbles will make the drink feel different in the mouth -- more "frothy" -- but this effect will dissipate as the air escapes.

Also if the bartender gets overenthusiastic or showoffy and shakes the drink too hard, there can be little chips of ice in it. I hate that.

#76 slkinsey

slkinsey
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 11,130 posts
  • Location:New York, New York

Posted 11 October 2003 - 09:09 AM

I wouldn't know why you would shake a martini, you'll just water it down.

The only times you should really shake a cocktail is when there's juice.

Tell that to James Bond. :laugh:

Yeah I've always wondered about that, why Bond always orders his "Shaken, not stirred".

I assume because in the original novels it was more of a satire then a serious story.

You nailed it with the second sentence. He ordered it "shaken not stirred" because it was déclassé.
Samuel Lloyd Kinsey

#77 Squeat Mungry

Squeat Mungry
  • legacy participant
  • 1,251 posts

Posted 11 October 2003 - 09:28 AM

What DrinkBoy said.

#78 DrinkBoy

DrinkBoy
  • participating member
  • 227 posts
  • Location:Seattle

Posted 12 October 2003 - 09:18 AM

Tell that to James Bond.  :laugh:

What always surprises me about this whole "James Bond" thing, is that:

A) We shouldn't drive like James Bond
B) We shouldn't treat women like James Bond
C) We shouldn't think we can win at gambling like James Bond
D) We shouldn't kill people like James Bond

...so how come we think he should be our model for drinking?

-Robert Hess
www.DrinkBoy.com

#79 trillium

trillium
  • participating member
  • 1,515 posts

Posted 13 October 2003 - 10:20 AM

Also,  the trapped air bubbles will make the drink feel different in the mouth -- more "frothy" -- but this effect will dissipate as the air escapes.

Also if the bartender gets overenthusiastic or showoffy and shakes the drink too hard, there can be little chips of ice in it. I hate that.

How funny. I hate it when the barkeep doesn't shake it long enough or hard enough, little ice chips are how I judge that the drink is likely to be cold enough for my tastes. I hate not cold enough cocktails. Takes all sorts...

regards,
trillium

#80 Meow-Mix

Meow-Mix
  • legacy participant
  • 43 posts

Posted 13 October 2003 - 07:26 PM

Also,  the trapped air bubbles will make the drink feel different in the mouth -- more "frothy" -- but this effect will dissipate as the air escapes.

Also if the bartender gets overenthusiastic or showoffy and shakes the drink too hard, there can be little chips of ice in it. I hate that.

How funny. I hate it when the barkeep doesn't shake it long enough or hard enough, little ice chips are how I judge that the drink is likely to be cold enough for my tastes. I hate not cold enough cocktails. Takes all sorts...

regards,
trillium

I must admit to liking the ice chips myself.

#81 beans

beans
  • legacy participant
  • 2,836 posts

Posted 13 October 2003 - 10:22 PM

Go figure one guest, yesterday while I was at work, had his server physically carry and send back his martini to the bartender who originally made it stirred and not shaken, ten minutes after he got and first sipped his drink. He claimed it was undrinkable because it became disgustingly warm! :rolleyes:

I never seem to mind when they are shaken with the bits of ice either because I usually am busy socializing and gabbing someone's ear off at a bar, or just drink them slowly because they are martinis. The one who talks the most drinks the least! :biggrin: And of course they always taste best when I pour them straight from my freezer (no shaking or stirring involved) into my favourite, appropriately pre-chilled, cocktail glass.

#82 KatieLoeb

KatieLoeb
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 9,157 posts
  • Location:Philadelphia

Posted 13 October 2003 - 10:28 PM

I never seem to mind when they are shaken with the bits of ice either because I usually am busy socializing and gabbing someone's ear off at a bar, or just drink them slowly because they are martinis.  The one who talks the most drinks the least!  :biggrin:  And of course they always taste best when I pour them straight from my freezer (no shaking or stirring involved) into my favourite, appropriately pre-chilled, cocktail glass.

Beans:

Truly, we are twin daughters of different mothers :raz:

Katie M. Loeb
Booze Muse, Spiritual Advisor

Author: Shake, Stir, Pour:Fresh Homegrown Cocktails

Cheers!
Bartendrix,Intoxicologist, Beverage Consultant, Philadelphia, PA
Captain Liberty of the Good Varietals, Aphrodite of Alcohol


#83 herbacidal

herbacidal
  • participating member
  • 3,127 posts
  • Location:Philly, sorta

Posted 13 October 2003 - 10:35 PM

What's your preference --  shaken or stirred ?

Anyone subscribe to the "stirring is superior because shaking bruises the gin" theory ?

i would say that shaken is just seen as cooler. plus patrons wanna see you working that much harder for their money.
Herb aka "herbacidal"

Tom is not my friend.

#84 trillium

trillium
  • participating member
  • 1,515 posts

Posted 14 October 2003 - 10:20 AM

I never seem to mind when they are shaken with the bits of ice either because I usually am busy socializing and gabbing someone's ear off at a bar, or just drink them slowly because they are martinis.  The one who talks the most drinks the least!  :biggrin:  And of course they always taste best when I pour them straight from my freezer (no shaking or stirring involved) into my favourite, appropriately pre-chilled, cocktail glass.

How do you get the proper dilution of the spirits with a little water from the ice when you just pour straight from the freezer? Or don't you?

regards,
trillium

#85 JAZ

JAZ
  • manager
  • 4,904 posts
  • Location:Atlanta

Posted 14 October 2003 - 04:11 PM

And of course they always taste best when I pour them straight from my freezer (no shaking or stirring involved) into my favourite, appropriately pre-chilled, cocktail glass.

Beans:

Truly, we are twin daughters of different mothers :raz:

So are you two talking about straight gin or vodka, or do you mean you premix the gin (or vodka) and vermouth and then store the mixture in the freezer?

#86 beans

beans
  • legacy participant
  • 2,836 posts

Posted 14 October 2003 - 08:22 PM

Premix? My fav gin or vodka straight up and frozen, thank you.

trillium: When it comes to the real deal, what is dillution? :laugh:

KatieLoeb: I couldn't have had a better compliment -- You as my lost twin sister? What a lovely thought.... I'm so incredibly flattered and you are such a dear! :wub: Lucky me!! :smile:

Edited by beans, 14 October 2003 - 08:33 PM.


#87 Squeat Mungry

Squeat Mungry
  • legacy participant
  • 1,251 posts

Posted 14 October 2003 - 08:29 PM

I suppose it is time for me to submit my favorite martini recipe, attributed (as I heard it) to Luis Bunuel.

1. The night before, gather the following and place them in the freezer: Gin, vermouth, martini glass.

2. Just before dawn, arise and pour the gin into the glass. Position the bottle of vermouth so that the first rays of the rising sun will penetrate the vermouth bottle and strike the gin in the glass.

3. Garnish with olive if desired. Enjoy.

Cheers,

Squeat

#88 DrinkBoy

DrinkBoy
  • participating member
  • 227 posts
  • Location:Seattle

Posted 15 October 2003 - 07:26 AM

Pardon me if I take this opportunity to pull up a little soapbox that I keep in my back pocket... :->

Cocktail vs. Martini
It has always bothered me when folks refer to almost anything as a "Martini". There are bartenders who insist that anything served in a "Martini" glass (actually sir, that is called a "Cocktail" glass), is a Martini.

The Martini is "A" cocktail, it is not a category of cocktails. When you see restaurants with multiple drinks listed in their "Martini Menu", what they actually have is a "Cocktail Menu". But since John Q. Public has created this "mystique" around the Martini, they feel that they can make these cocktails more appealing if they fool people into believing that what they are actually having is a Martini.

Cuisine de Cocktail
It also bothers me with these folks that think a properly made Martini is just a glass of ice-cold booze.

A "Cocktail" (of which a Martini is one) is a drink that is made from several different ingredients, carefully balanced, so that the individual flavors blend and compliment one another. The result (when properly done) is something akin to a fine french sauce, a new flavor experience. Vodka, shaken with ice, and poured into a cocktail glass, is -not- a cocktail. In fact it's not even a Mixed Drink (of which the Cocktail is a sub-category). It's just a glass of chilled vodka.

A Martini should include enough vermouth to balance the flavor of the gin. This whole thing about "the dryer the better", and that being "dryer" means adding less and less dry vermouth, is frankly just an excuse to "attempt" to increase the alcohol content of the drink. If you go back through history and locate the folks who claimed this is how they loved their Martini's, they were all alcoholics, or borderline alcoholics. -and- they all occured right after prohibition, which was sort of a "cocktail lobotomy" to the entire nation.

Dry Martini
The term "Dry Martini" originally (ie. pre-prohibition) was used to indicate that you wanted your Martini made with "dry vermouth" instead of "sweet vermouth" (as was the original ingredient). This exact same nominclature is still in use today for the Martini's older brother, the Manhattan. A "Dry Manhattan" is made with dry vermouth, not less sweet vermouth.

It's The Water
Lastly (ok, perhaps not really lastly, but at least lastly of what I'm going to spout off about in this post :-), is the notion that some people have of putting all of the ingredients and tools for making a Martini into the freezer to get them really cold. Their "intent" here is that by making the gin, vermouth, glasses, shaker, etc. as cold as possible, there will be less dilution of the drink by the ice. Again, this falls back into the "increase the alcohol content of the drink"... which really is not the point. If you are wanting a drink with maximum alcohol content, just stick with everclear. The water that dilutes from the melting ice is an -important- part of the cocktail making process. It provides a necessary softening and rounding out of the drink.

-Robert Hess
www.DrinkBoy.com

#89 Busboy

Busboy
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,426 posts
  • Location:Washington, DC

Posted 15 October 2003 - 07:36 AM

A Martini should include enough vermouth to balance the flavor of the gin. This whole thing about "the dryer the better", and that being "dryer" means adding less and less dry vermouth, is frankly just an excuse to "attempt" to increase the alcohol content of the drink. If you go back through history and locate the folks who claimed this is how they loved their Martini's, they were all alcoholics, or borderline alcoholics.

"Alcoholic," eh? You can't say that about me and my friends. As soon as my hands stop shaking I'm going to kick your ass

-and- they all occured right after prohibition, which was sort of a "cocktail lobotomy" to the entire nation.


As a matter of fact, DrinkBoy, many of them occurred the other night at my house.

Edited by Busboy, 15 October 2003 - 08:08 AM.

I'm on the pavement
Thinking about the government.

#90 beans

beans
  • legacy participant
  • 2,836 posts

Posted 15 October 2003 - 07:38 AM

This whole thing about "the dryer the better", and that being "dryer" means adding less and less dry vermouth, is frankly just an excuse to "attempt" to increase the alcohol content of the drink. If you go back through history and locate the folks who claimed this is how they loved their Martini's, they were all alcoholics, or borderline alcoholics. -and- they all occured right after prohibition, which was sort of a "cocktail lobotomy" to the entire nation.

Whew!

Respectfully Robert, I never considered a dry martini as an excuse or an attempt to increase the alcohol content. Some days my refrigerated vermouth is mixed in or other days not. Some days that freezer stored vodka or gin go on the rocks too (most often because I hate handling my cocktail glasses -- hand washing or fear of dishwasher breakage).

Besides, I was stating my preference, not cocktail law! :biggrin: