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Croissant Troubleshooting


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#31 Lisa Shock

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 01:19 AM

BTW, you should look into a slightly longer proofing period or adjust your temperature. The striped effect, of very light dough just under the seams, is caused by a late bit of rise in the center happening after the exterior is browned. The crisp, sharp outside edges of the wrapped triangle are also an indication that they needed a longer proof. Overall, though, they look very good: well shaped, uniform and, it appears that you have an even-heating oven.

 

As for recipes, I go with Ciril Hitz now, both for work and home. His instructions are very clear, and he gets world-class perfect results.

 

edited for clarity


Edited by Lisa Shock, 30 August 2013 - 01:23 AM.


#32 cherylf2112

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 05:20 AM

Thanks for the input. Actually I make my own butter because of the low quality butter available. I buy whole milk from a local dairy and use a mesophillic culture. It is much better than anything I have ever purchased.



#33 Lisa Shock

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 01:36 PM

Thanks for the input. Actually I make my own butter because of the low quality butter available. I buy whole milk from a local dairy and use a mesophillic culture. It is much better than anything I have ever purchased.

 

That's a smart way to go.



#34 Dave Hatfield

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 07:19 AM

Those are great looking croissants! I'm not sure if they can be bettered.

 

Here in France most bakeries sell two types of croissants. Plain croissants and croissants du buerre.

 

​Yours, obviously, are of the latter type.  That you even make your own butter is awesome.

 

About all that I can suggest for a possible improvement is that you try to get your hands on some really top quality butter from Normandy. That's what the very best bakers here use.

 

In the meantime, I'd be more than happy to sample your croissants any time.



#35 Darienne

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 07:38 AM

Welcome to eGullet, Cheryl.  Your croissants look luscious.  I am so glad we can't get decent croissants in our region or I should have eaten my way through more than my share.

 

And Lisa Shock.  Thanks so much for the butter information.  I did not know that.  Although we live in Canada, I would expect that our butter 'regulations' are about the same as those in the USA.  It certainly could help to explain confectionery and baking 'failures'.


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#36 Anna N

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 08:18 AM

In Canada it appears that the water and fat content of butter labelled CHURNED is regulated:

http://www.dairygood.../churned-butter
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#37 Darienne

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 08:37 AM

Thanks Anna.  I'll look in the store for this.


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#38 Kerry Beal

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 09:54 AM

Sterling makes an 84% BF butter - it's called European style.  Bought a half pound of it today for the ungodly price of $5.99 (on special)!

 

Alleguede and I got talking about this last evening - he apparently takes butter and paddles it to remove the excess water when he needs a higher percentage of BF.  



#39 Darienne

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 11:03 AM

Definitely out of our snack bracket.  DH would never sign on for this one.  Thanks.  I'll look for it however.


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#40 Lisa Shock

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 02:23 PM

Definitely out of our snack bracket.  DH would never sign on for this one.  Thanks.  I'll look for it however.

 

Making your own butter is pretty easy if you have a stand mixer. (look for recipes online, it can be cultured for more flavor, or not) It can also be frozen, if needed. I make it if I see cream on sale -it must be heavy cream without additives. Sometimes around holidays, stores get in a lot to run promotions on, and then when it gets close to the expiration date, it's half price. The weeks following Christmas are prime hunting season for cheap cream. I also have a Smart & Final near me and access to a Restaurant Depot, both of which sell half gallons of manufacturing cream -which is fine to use if you're cooking the butter.


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#41 DiggingDogFarm

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 02:52 PM

Butter in america is unregulated, so it can have wildly differing amounts of water in it, by manufacturer, season, region, etc. Generally, cheap butter, even from a good supplier, is for whipping and serving at the table. The added water helps lighten it. But, it's not good for baking because most recipes are formulated assuming a 20% water content in the butter. I have gotten super-cheap butter from US Foods, not my decision, that turned out to be 45% water!!! I think that generic or store brand butter might sometimes be from that same manufacturer -cheap butter is like playing the lottery.
 
Better, branded butter, tends to run closer to the 18-20% water that one wants in a croissant formula. In europe, you can by lower moisture butters, these work well in croissants. One company even makes commercial butter in sheets ready to fold in.

 
 
Really?
 
U.S. of A. butter must contain at least 80% (but not more than 95%) milk fat  by weight, a maximum non-fat milk solids content of 2% by weight and a maximum water content of 16% by weight.
 
45% water? That's "dairy spread" officially....dreadful stuff!!!!

Edited by DiggingDogFarm, 01 September 2013 - 02:58 PM.

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#42 Lisa Shock

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 03:00 PM

Yeah, I unwittingly melted down some of the 45% stuff to make clarified for Hollandaise! I then had to show the boss why our yield was so low, melted a couple pounds so it separated, then chilled it and weight the solid part and water separately so she could complain to the supplier.



#43 Alleguede

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 05:42 PM

Yes - Canadian dairy board imposes the CDC butter to be of min 80%.

For the croissant, you need to do a mix of all purpose and bread flour of 50% each.
Yeast is 40 g per 2 kilo of flour
Water 500 g
Milk 600g
Sugar 150 g
Salt 42 g
Soft Butter 100 g

Sheeting butter 1.2 kg

Croissant is a very dry dough

Temperature out of mixer 24 degrees Celsius
Rest time 45 min room temp
Roll down take out air
Rest in fridge overnight/freezer for 1hr till cold
Roll down, lay butter on 2/3 rds
Fold the 1/3 of non butter on the butter part then other one on top (single fold)
Turn of 1/4 turn (seem towards you)
Roll down and make another single fold
Cool down for 1 hr
Start again twice
Roll down to about 4 mm cut in desired shape
Proof till it goes twice the initial size (needs to be wobble delicately on tray)
Egg wash
Bake at 190 degrees Celsius

#44 sugarseattle

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 07:04 AM

I usually do 3 turns with a 30 minute rest in between, and was intrigued by the double turn idea. It certainly saved a lot of time; however, I noticed my croissants didn't look as fluffy and nice.


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#45 Lisa Shock

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 04:18 PM

BTW, the time between turns should be increased based on the size of the batch of dough. A large batch won't cool sufficiently in 30 minutes, might need 45-60 minutes.



#46 Steve Irby

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 08:02 PM

Beautiful photo of your baking.  How about a minor variation.  I've been using a recipe for cornetti by Carol Field from her book the Italian Baker for many years.  The end result is always fantastic but the path varies slightly every time depending on home kitchen variables.  The main concern is to allow adequate time for the dough to rest and remain chilled and elastic.  


Edited by Steve Irby, 12 September 2013 - 08:54 PM.


#47 &roid

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 10:16 PM

Cheryl, they look amazing, I think I'm going to try them this weekend.

I've had good luck with turns by keeping close tabs on the temperature of the dough/butter mix: it's as important that it not become too cold as that it not become too warm, in my (albeit limited) experience.


Chris, what temperature do you aim for with this method?

#48 lesliec

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 09:45 PM

I find making croissants an excellent activity for an otherwise-idle Sunday afternoon, so here's how today's batch shaped up.  As I mentioned up in post #4, the recipe I like is from The French Market (Joanne Harris and Fran Warde).

 

At first the dough is very fluffy and you think there's no way it's ever going to come together into a ball.  But after half an hour in the fridge it's a bit more obliging:

 

Crois_1.jpg

 

First roll and fold:

 

Crois_2.jpg

 

Rolled again.  Some butter bleeding through, but it doesn't seem to matter:

 

Crois_3.jpg

 

Folded again:

 

Crois_4.jpg

 

Ready to go into plastic wrap and into the fridge to meditate:

 

Crois_5.jpg

 

When it comes out it's risen a bit:

 

Crois_6.jpg

 

Repeat until you lose count (I do, pretty much every time).  Final roll; the dough has become a bit smoother since the first couple of photos:

 

Crois_7.jpg

 

Roll to a square (well, something vaguely like a square), cut into triangles, roll and place on baking tray while the oven heats up:

 

Crois_8.jpg

 

Time to go into the oven.  Again, note the amount of rise.  The recipe says I should brush them with beaten egg at this point, but I don't like the taste and they get quite brown enough for me:

 

Crois_9.jpg

 

And 20 or so minutes later:

 

Crois_10.jpg

 

This isn't a finicky recipe.  I don't stress over the number of roll/fold cycles or the time the dough sits in the fridge after each one (things like lunch sometimes get in the way).  Nor to I worry that most of the little beasts inevitably seem to 'un-crescent' themselves.  They may look rustic, but they taste wonderful and I think that may kinda be the point.

 

Into the freezer now and that's a few nice breakfasts sorted out ...

 

 

Edit: missed a bit


Edited by lesliec, 14 September 2013 - 09:46 PM.

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#49 sweetiegirl

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 05:17 AM

HELP!!! my flaps to my croissants are separating and tearing apart.  Does anyone know what could be

happening? They are also blistering on the tops. Can anyone help me with this????

 

 



#50 Alleguede

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 05:26 AM

Flaps? Layers or rolls? Too much flour when rolling them. The bubbles are heat issues but more or less normal. Croissant bake best in convection oven at 170/185 degrees Celsius.

#51 sweetiegirl

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 08:49 AM

Thanks for your reply...The top layer of the croissant brakes off. We use very little  or almost no flour to roll are croissants out.



#52 Alleguede

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 08:47 PM

How many turns do you give your croissants? Is the dough sticky? Do you egg wash them?

#53 jmacnaughtan

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 02:12 AM

Sounds like you're proving them too fast.  Give them two long, slow proofs - one for the un-folded dough, one for the finished croissant - and they'll hold their shape better.  It's a good idea to egg-wash them twice as well, just after rolling and just before baking.



#54 sweetiegirl

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 06:45 AM

We do two turns, but each turn has five folds (8# dough).  How does egg washing them twice help them? my dough is not sticky

 
Does anyone no the % of butter that goes into a laminate? We put 3 pounds butter for every 8 pounds of dough.


#55 Matthew Kirshner

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 06:55 AM

Normally I tend to stay with 25% butter into lamination.  3# butter into 8# dough seems to be a little too much, that's is closer to 38%??  Are you rolling these croissants out by hand or sheeter?, if you are using a sheeting what are the thickness you are sheeting to, both folds and make-up.

 

In the past I have notice the thicker the sheeting the problems you have describe has happen.    



#56 sweetiegirl

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 11:52 AM

When laminating we try to go down between 4 to 5 on the sheeter. When sheeting down to cut we go to 3 3/4. your boys are very cute....



#57 Matthew Kirshner

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 02:02 PM

Try this next time around if you can make an extra dough to laminate:

 

Laminate to 10-9mm for the folds(one double, one single. or 3 single)

Make up: 3 1/2 -3

 

reduce butter to 25%(if you are adding flour to the butter pats, only add 4oz per dough)

 

I think another problem is the butter when you laminate is getting too thin into the dough causing it to crack.  Remember the butter is also a steam leavening for laminating dough's.

 

Thank you for the comment on the kids,  I need to update the photo, I have a daughter in the mix.


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#58 jmacnaughtan

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 12:54 AM

 

We do two turns, but each turn has five folds (8# dough).  How does egg washing them twice help them? my dough is not sticky

 
Does anyone no the % of butter that goes into a laminate? We put 3 pounds butter for every 8 pounds of dough.

 

 

Egg wash them twice to make them look better and stop the layers separating in the oven.  I don't think it's necessary to reduce the butter content that much: I've always had good results with 31%. 

 

The problem might be your folds.  2 x 5 folds might make the dough too thin, maybe try the standard 3 x 3?



#59 sweetiegirl

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 06:17 AM

 

 

We do two turns, but each turn has five folds (8# dough).  How does egg washing them twice help them? my dough is not sticky

 
Does anyone no the % of butter that goes into a laminate? We put 3 pounds butter for every 8 pounds of dough.

 

 

Egg wash them twice to make them look better and stop the layers separating in the oven.  I don't think it's necessary to reduce the butter content that much: I've always had good results with 31%. 

 

The problem might be your folds.  2 x 5 folds might make the dough too thin, maybe try the standard 3 x 3?

 

Thanks I will try this



#60 sweetiegirl

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 09:28 AM

How many of you put flour in with your butter blocks before laminating I have never tried this? If so how much flour do you put in.