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Cocktails with two spirits


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#31 Splificator

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Posted 26 July 2008 - 08:16 AM

But the Suffering Bastard gets it about right: Gin, Bourbon, Lime Juice, Bitters Ginger Ale

myers

And, just out of curiosity, how would you garnish this one?
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#32 eje

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Posted 26 July 2008 - 10:36 AM

And, just out of curiosity, how would you garnish this one?

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Over in the The original Suffering Bastard on Tiki Central mbanu claims to have discovered an 1959 article in the New York Times which interviews the drink's creator, Joe Scialom. For the life of me I can't find it in the Times Archive, but here's the quote he found:

When liquor was short during the war, he had to concoct "something to quench the boys' thirst." He combined equal parts gin and brandy with a dash of Angostura bitters, a teaspoon of Rose's lime juice, and English ginger ale. He garnished the drink with a sprig of fresh mint, a slice of orange and a cucumber peel. The bartender advised Americans to substitute ginger beer for the ginger ale because the British version of the soft drink is more heavily seasoned with ginger than ours.


ThinkingBartender, not to be outdone, found the following from an undisclosed source he sez was published in 1972:

"During the bleak war days, Shepheard's ran short of cognac, gin and most imported liquors. "We had to make do with stuff that wasn't so smooth," he said, "and the British officers began to complain that they were getting bad hangovers...I decided to seek a cure, and I finally dreamed up a drink that I named The Suffering Bar Steward. It consisted of gin we borrowed from the South African post exchange, brandy from Cyprus and bitters made by a chemist across the street from the hotel. To this we added lime juice made in Cairo and a local ginger ale provided by a Greek merchant of dubious character....The result was a drink with an unexpectedly pleasant taste and a delayed action effect."


ThinkingBartender also gives a recipe for it that calls for one ounce of gin and "Two ounces brandy or bourbon".

Seems like the Bourbon snuck in a bit later.

Edited by eje, 26 July 2008 - 10:38 AM.

---
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#33 Splificator

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Posted 26 July 2008 - 11:42 AM

And, just out of curiosity, how would you garnish this one?

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Over in the The original Suffering Bastard on Tiki Central mbanu claims to have discovered an 1959 article in the New York Times which interviews the drink's creator, Joe Scialom. For the life of me I can't find it in the Times Archive, but here's the quote he found:

When liquor was short during the war, he had to concoct "something to quench the boys' thirst." He combined equal parts gin and brandy with a dash of Angostura bitters, a teaspoon of Rose's lime juice, and English ginger ale. He garnished the drink with a sprig of fresh mint, a slice of orange and a cucumber peel. The bartender advised Americans to substitute ginger beer for the ginger ale because the British version of the soft drink is more heavily seasoned with ginger than ours.

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Well, y'see, the reason I asked is because Mr. F. Deko has a propensity for non-traditional garnishes.

Not to take anything away from Mr. Scialom, who not only invented the drink (and was photographed by Esquire making it) but, when Nasser-inspired rioters burned down Shepherd's, came to the US and went on to a high-powered career in hotel beverage dynamics.
aka David Wondrich

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#34 thirtyoneknots

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Posted 26 July 2008 - 12:22 PM

I'll give that ratio a whirl. I have home made grenadine.  (but I don't have the bonded stuff. Last time I was in the liquor store, I almost bought it, but decided to save a few bucks and buy the regular Laird's Applejack)

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The difference is $4 or so usually, and it's perhaps the best return on $4 between two liquors of the same type. You'll be glad you did, except when you realise you're going through the stuff at 2-3x the rate you were.
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#35 eje

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Posted 26 July 2008 - 12:40 PM

Well, y'see, the reason I asked is because Mr. F. Deko has a propensity for non-traditional garnishes.

Not to take anything away from Mr. Scialom, who not only invented the drink (and was photographed by Esquire making it) but, when Nasser-inspired rioters burned down Shepherd's, came to the US and went on to a high-powered career in hotel beverage dynamics.

View Post

Ah, sorry. As always the literalist.

Air popped grasshoppers! Very nice, Mr. F. Deko. I applaud your work to champion Sustainable Food Sources (link to recent NY Times article on Entomophagy).
---
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#36 fatdeko

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Posted 27 July 2008 - 02:47 AM

Air popped grasshoppers!  Very nice, Mr. F. Deko.  I applaud your work to champion Sustainable Food Sources (link to recent NY Times article on Entomophagy).

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Yep. That's me. Friend of the Earth and all its Earthitudinality. Love it or hate it, you can't shoot it: Earth!

In the perfect world, where it's just the last three of us drinking, and we're drinking Suffering Bastards, I'd use the nails from the Crucifixion as swizzle sticks. (Think about it.....)

Barring that, I'd try my hand at the Black Arts and try to capture the smell of my basement in a foam. To me it smells like diesel and grape jelly.

But a sprig of mint is good too.
I guess.

myers

#37 plattetude

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 11:41 AM

Okay, here's a challenge: I'm looking to concoct something that features both young genever (I'll say Boomsma, rather than dig into my dwindling stash of Bols or my Genevieve) and Irish whiskey (I've got Red Breast on hand) to honor a 2-year-old whose father is of strong Dutch extraction and mother is of strong Irish extraction. I imagine if I do them at equal parts, the whiskey would be completely obliterated, so as a starting point, I'm assuming 2:1 on the whiskey:genever. From there, what, a splash of maraschino, bianco vermouth, and some healthy shakes of orange bitters perhaps? Or maybe some green Chartreuse and Punt e Mez, for a Dutch-Irish Bijou riff?

Other ideas?

Christopher

#38 eje

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 12:02 PM

Okay, here's a challenge:  I'm looking to concoct something that features both young genever (I'll say Boomsma, rather than dig into my dwindling stash of Bols or my Genevieve)
[...]

View Post

Not sure if you intended to imply this or not, but being the stickler guy that I am, I will point out that I think Genevieve is a modern oude genenver style gin rather than a jonge genever.

The reason I say this, is that the differentiation point between jonge genever and oude genever comes down to the amount of malt wine used. Jonge genevers have very little malt wine, being mostly neutral spirits. Oude genevers have a larger percentage of malt wine. Bols Corewyn, for example, is supposed to be made from a distillate of at least 51% malt wine.

As far as I know, Genevieve is made on a distillate from 100% malted barley, wheat, and rye. There are no Neutral spirits in the mix at all. To me this makes it an Oude Genever style Gin rather than a Jonge Genever.
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#39 plattetude

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 12:06 PM

Okay, here's a challenge:  I'm looking to concoct something that features both young genever (I'll say Boomsma, rather than dig into my dwindling stash of Bols or my Genevieve)
[...]

View Post

Not sure if you intended to imply this or not, but being the stickler guy that I am, I will point out that I think Genevieve is a modern oude genenver style gin rather than a jonge genever.

The reason I say this, is that the differentiation point between jonge genever and oude genever comes down to the amount of malt wine used. Jonge genevers have very little malt wine, being mostly neutral spirits. Oude genevers have a larger percentage of malt wine. Bols Corewyn, for example, is supposed to be made from a distillate of at least 51% malt wine.

As far as I know, Genevieve is made on a distillate from 100% malted barley, wheat, and rye. There are no Neutral spirits in the mix at all. To me this makes it an Oude Genever style Gin rather than a Jonge Genever.

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Right. Thanks for keeping me honest. I wasn't really meaning to imply that Genevieve is a jonge-style genever, I was more running through in my head what bottles of *any* genever I have at home right now.

Christopher

#40 eje

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 12:14 PM

Right.  Thanks for keeping me honest.  I wasn't really meaning to imply that Genevieve is a jonge-style genever, I was more running through in my head what bottles of *any* genever I have at home right now.

Christopher

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What can I say, I'm a stickler.

I think the combination of Jonge Genever and Irish Whiskey will be tasty. Didn't Wondrich suggest something similar as an Oude Genever substitute in "Imbibe"?

A lot of 1930s cocktails with Irish Whiskey seem to include Absinthe as do Gin cocktails like the "Improved Holland Gin Cocktail", so that might be a place to start.

Though, many of the Irish Whiskey cocktails include French Vermouth, which allegedly doesn't get along with Genever.

I liked this one:

John Wood Cocktail
2 Parts Irish whisky.
4 Parts Italian Vermouth
2 Parts Lemon Juice.
1 Part Kummel.
1 Dash Angostura bitters
Shake well and strain into cocktail glass.

Maybe with Genever and a dash of syrup instead of Kummel?

Edited by eje, 29 July 2008 - 12:15 PM.

---
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#41 thirtyoneknots

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 01:45 PM

Maybe consider using some sort of Curacao instead of Maraschino, to pick up on the orange notes found in many mixing-grade Irish Whiskies. I could be completely wrong but it seems like Maraschino might be more difficult to balance.
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#42 brinza

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 07:42 PM

I was going to put this in the Drinks! thread, but it's appropriate here as well.

In Trader Vic's Bartender's Guide is a drink called the Atlas:
1 oz. calvados or Applejack (I used Applejack)
1/2 oz. Demerara rum, 151 (I only have Paramount 151)
1/2 oz. Cointreau
1 dash Angostura Bitters

This was absolutely delicious. Strong (especially since I stirred instead of shaking), but really good. Everything just came together for one really stunning flavor. It's not often you make something new and immediately you know it's going to be a new favorite. I won't soon forget this one.

And here's the strange thing about this cocktail. This drink does not appear, at least under the name Atlas, anyway, in any of these cocktail books:
Savoy Hotel Cocktail book
Old Walddorf-Astoria Bar Book
Duffy's Mixer's Manual
Regan's Joy of Mixology
DeGroff's Craft of the Cocktail
Ultimate A to Z Bar Guide

I don't know if the recipe goes by other names (I wouldn't be surprised if it did), but it's the first time I noticed it. I checked a few online databases, and the Cocktaildb has it:
http://www.cocktaild...e_detail?id=120
(except their version calls for a full ounce of rum)

Try this!
Mike

"The mixing of whiskey, bitters, and sugar represents a turning point, as decisive for American drinking habits as the discovery of three-point perspective was for Renaissance painting." -- William Grimes

#43 eje

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 09:05 PM

I was going to put this in the Drinks! thread, but it's appropriate here as well.

In Trader Vic's Bartender's Guide is a drink called the Atlas:
1 oz. calvados or Applejack (I used Applejack)
[...]
And here's the strange thing about this cocktail.  This drink does not appear, at least under the name Atlas, anyway, in any of these cocktail books:
[...]
I don't know if the recipe goes by other names (I wouldn't be surprised if it did), but it's the first time I noticed it.  I checked a few online databases, and the Cocktaildb has it:
http://www.cocktaild...e_detail?id=120
(except their version calls for a full ounce of rum)
[...]

View Post

The cocktaildb got most of its recipes by scanning "Jones' Complete Bar Guide". I had thought Jones got most of his recipes by way of Duffy, but it looks like they went through the intermediate step of the 1948 Trader Vic Bartender's Guide, as a few recipes, like the Caprice and Atlas got added that weren't in Duffy.

Sort of like a game of telephone, though, the further they get from the originals, the more likely they are to be distorted.

For example, the Caprice in Trader Vic is: 1 oz gin; 1/2 teaspoon Dry Vermouth; 1/2 teaspoon benedictine; 2 dashes orange bitters. In Jones it is 1 1/2 oz gin; 1/2 oz Dry Vermouth; 1/2 oz Benedictine; 1 dash orange bitters.
---
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#44 brinza

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 05:50 AM

The cocktaildb got most of its recipes by scanning "Jones' Complete Bar Guide".  I had thought Jones got most of his recipes by way of Duffy, but it looks like they went through the intermediate step of the 1948 Trader Vic Bartender's Guide, as a few recipes, like the Caprice and Atlas got added that weren't in Duffy.

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I was thinking it might be in Difford's (which I've seen you mention a few times). I don't own a copy and was about to order the 7th Edition (I understand it has recipes that use St. Germain), but then I noticed that the 8th Edition is due out in September, so I'm thinking of just waiting for that one.
Mike

"The mixing of whiskey, bitters, and sugar represents a turning point, as decisive for American drinking habits as the discovery of three-point perspective was for Renaissance painting." -- William Grimes

#45 Chris Amirault

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 04:07 PM

Made an Atlas with Laird's bonded, Lemon Hart 151, Creole Shrubb, and house bitters. It's both delicious and positively masculating, the sort of drink that my grandfather would say "puts hair on your chest."
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#46 judiu

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 06:37 PM

I was going to put this in the Drinks! thread, but it's appropriate here as well.

In Trader Vic's Bartender's Guide is a drink called the Atlas:
1 oz. calvados or Applejack (I used Applejack)
[...]
And here's the strange thing about this cocktail.  This drink does not appear, at least under the name Atlas, anyway, in any of these cocktail books:
[...]
I don't know if the recipe goes by other names (I wouldn't be surprised if it did), but it's the first time I noticed it.  I checked a few online databases, and the Cocktaildb has it:
http://www.cocktaild...e_detail?id=120
(except their version calls for a full ounce of rum)
[...]

View Post

The cocktaildb got most of its recipes by scanning "Jones' Complete Bar Guide". I had thought Jones got most of his recipes by way of Duffy, but it looks like they went through the intermediate step of the 1948 Trader Vic Bartender's Guide, as a few recipes, like the Caprice and Atlas got added that weren't in Duffy.
Sort of like a game of telephone, though, the further they get from the originals, the more likely they are to be distorted.

For example, the Caprice in Trader Vic is: 1 oz gin; 1/2 teaspoon Dry Vermouth; 1/2 teaspoon benedictine; 2 dashes orange bitters. In Jones it is 1 1/2 oz gin; 1/2 oz Dry Vermouth; 1/2 oz Benedictine; 1 dash orange bitters.

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Ahhm, maybe bigger glasses?
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#47 Dave the Cook

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 06:56 PM

In scanning the recipe cards from Tales of the Cocktail, I can across Paul Clarke's Morning Glory, Imperial Style. He's too modest or too busy to post it here, I suspect:

1 oz cognac
1 oz rye
1 t curacao
1 t simple syrup
1 t absinthe
2 dashes Angostura bitters

Stir with ice and strain into a chilled glass. Top with

2 oz champagne

This led me to the Morning Glory in CocktailDB, which is pretty much the same, except for the use of soda instead of sparkling wine. Nice drink, either way.

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#48 Mike S.

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 07:33 PM

This is SUCH a great thread -- I've just spent a nice long time copying down all these recipes and doing a bit of research on the side. David's link to the WSJ article above leads to a nice story and recipe about the Omar Bradley (a battle-field Old Fashioned made with orange marmalade) that looks great!
Cheers,

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#49 KatieLoeb

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 11:58 AM

In scanning the recipe cards from Tales of the Cocktail, I can across Paul Clarke's Morning Glory, Imperial Style. He's too modest or too busy to post it here, I suspect:

1 oz cognac
1 oz rye
1 t curacao
1 t simple syrup
1 t absinthe
2 dashes Angostura bitters

Stir with ice and strain into a chilled glass. Top with

2 oz champagne

This led me to the Morning Glory in CocktailDB, which is pretty much the same, except for the use of soda instead of sparkling wine. Nice drink, either way.

View Post


Methinks we tasted these as prepared by David Wondrich at the Morning Glory Cocktails seminar that took place at Cafe Adelaide. It was early in the morning after a late night, so the details are a bit fuzzy, but I recall this being utterly delicious and a fabulous way to consume the hair of the dog...

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Author: Shake, Stir, Pour:Fresh Homegrown Cocktails

Cheers!
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#50 judiu

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 02:36 PM

This is SUCH a great thread -- I've just spent a nice long time copying down all these recipes and doing a bit of research on the side.  David's link to the WSJ article above leads to a nice story and recipe about the Omar Bradley (a battle-field Old Fashioned made with orange marmalade) that looks great!

View Post

What link was that? It sounds like a very interesting drink!
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#51 Dave the Cook

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 02:40 PM

Omar Bradley

2 oz bourbon or rye whiskey
1 tsp (heaping or not, to taste) orange marmalade
1 squeeze fresh lemon juice
1 dash Angostura bitters

Shake, strain over fresh ice into an Old-Fashioned glass. Cherry.

Link here.

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#52 Dave the Cook

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 02:56 PM

I just came across this version of the Golden Dawn, which would also be at home on the equal parts topic:

3/4 oz Laird's Bonded
3/4 oz Plymouth gin
3/4 oz triple sec
3/4 oz apricot brandy
3/4 oz orange juice

I'm not sure about this one -- seems awfully sweet-sounding. Anyone game to try it?

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#53 Chris Amirault

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 05:46 PM

Too sweet is right. I screwed around with that for a while and came up with a Maize Morning:

3/4 oz apple brandy
3/4 oz gin
1/2 oz Apry
1/2 oz Cointreau
1/2 oz lemon
dash of orange or grapefruit bitters

Shake, strain, and dribble a few drops of grenadine at the drink's base (sunrise effect, don't you know).
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#54 slkinsey

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 07:08 AM

Ted Saucier's Bottoms Up has a recipe for the Golden Dawn that eliminates the Cointreau.
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#55 FrogPrincesse

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 12:19 PM

I am glad I found this thread. I made a Country Life No. 2 (Sam Ross, via Bartender's Choice) a couple of weeks ago and could not figure out what category to include it under. The original Country Life calls for bourbon, Jamaican rum, port, Angostura bitters. Sam Ross' version subs sweet vermouth for the port (bourbon, Jamaican rum, sweet vermouth, Angostura bitters). The proportions are too different to categorize it as a Manhattan variation.


Posted Image

Each component can be tasted (my husband was able to guess easily what all the components were), but the cocktail still is harmonious as a whole.

#56 FrogPrincesse

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 02:18 PM

Delmonico Cocktail: gin, cognac, sweet & dry vermouth, angostura bitters. Despite being equal parts in the Bartender's Choice version, the gin very distinctly dominated the cognac.

 

8907849313_9155def133_z.jpg
 



#57 Plantes Vertes

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 07:22 PM

Today I was able to encounter two colossi of the internet, when I tried Rafa's Bradley Manning. The moment seemed apt.
 

002 (480x640).jpg

 

I made it with orange and ginger marmalade, since that's what was hanging out in the cupboard, and it worked pretty well.


Edited by Plantes Vertes, 03 June 2013 - 07:29 PM.

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#58 Adam George

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 07:45 PM

My name is Adam George [Manning] and I approve of this drink.

 

I'd be interested to know the origin of the name.


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#59 Plantes Vertes

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 07:51 PM

My name is Adam George [Manning] and I approve of this drink.

 

I'd be interested to know the origin of the name.

 

Your wish is my command.



#60 Adam George

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 08:01 PM

Ah, shii...

 

Mannings are bastards....

 

Anywho... being that I am all Tiki at the moment, I made this with Brice (Yeah, Brice is like my bartending boyfriend, but most relationships end in one or both parties drinking themselves into stupidity so we're just cutting to the chase)

 

I found that it was basiclly too sour and not boozy enough, even at these specs, so I played around and settled on

 

25ml Tanqueray 86Proof... I'd prefer 94, But it's not standard issue in England.

25ml Louis de Lauriston Calvados VSOP 84Proof

20ml Plantation Overproof 146Proof

20ml Pineapple

20ml Orange

20ml Lime

15ml Falernum

10ml Passionfruit Syrup - Monin

10ml Simple 1:1

3 Dashes Boker's Bitters

 

Seriously, using an ounce of each rum is a waste when you can taste neither....
Imperialists can assume 20ml is one ounce and reduce from there. 


Edited by Adam George, 03 June 2013 - 08:08 PM.

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