45 replies to this topic

[SuzySushi]

Okay, today I made SuzySushi's recipe, and it really turned out well. Great flavor, great texture. I baked it in an 11x17" pan (couldn't find any 9x9's around, and I was under the gun, so it had to bake fast and I wanted to make sure it was thoroughly cooked before I shot out of the house). The top, sides, and bottom were evenly brown, the cake moist and eggy and tasting marvelously of honey. I'd definitely make this again!

A couple things I did that were different from SuzySushi's recipe but seemed to work out well: First, I put a cookie sheet both under and on top of the pan; this really helped the cake to cook quickly and evenly. Warning: lightly grease the top pan so that the cake doesn't stick to it! Don't ask me how I know this.

Second, I used a Korean all-purpose white wheat flour that is a lot lighter than American all-purpose, since I've found that it's closer to what's used in Chinese noodle recipes. It has a polar bear logo and green printing; since I don't read Korean, that's all I can tell you about what I used! However, if you can't find it in spite of this excellent and detailed description, a close approximation is 6 parts pastry flour to 1 part all-purpose.

Next up: Kuma's recipe and a visit to the local muumuu shop.

Thanks for the vote of confidence in my recipe! Now I need to try baking it with a (greased) cookie sheet on top!

[Mary Elizabeth]

I bought this cake at the Nijiya Market in San Francisco--shinju, you are in the bay area, so you must know this market. The ingredients are eggs, sugar, flour, black sugar (brown sugar?), cornsyrup, honey, malt, OSE corn syrup.

sanrensho--Thank you for pointing out that the cake was inverted to cool in the cakechef pictures, I missed that. Re: sugar at bottom of cake, one internet recipe said to sprinkle sugar on the pan bottom before you poured the batter in.

jumanggy--I agree that the Ong cake is especially delicious. I'm just going to keep that cake recipe as it is, do separate, stiff white/yolk foams and bake like a chiffon. I think his high sugar, extra yolks, and oil makes a really tender sponge that is its own hybrid. I'll keep watching this site for a good kasutera recipe and technique. Although it annoys me that the picture in Ong's book seems to be of a kasutera, but not the one from his recipe. I agree with your observation that a part of the kasutera technique we see in the pictures and videos is beating the eggs to thin foam, not ribbon-forming thickness.

[sanrensho]

Both the Bunmeido and Shinju's link from another manufacturer say that the coarse sugar is mixed into the batter (some of it ending up on the bottom).

BTW, here is a link that shows what zarame (coarse) sugar looks like:

http://shop.tomizawa...=06&pg=&ID=3898

It's too bad there isn't a Bunmeido outlet in California, or anywhere on the continent for that matter. Maybe you can find a local source that flies it in?

For the CakeChef Butter Castella recipe, the instructions say to foam to about 40-50% of full foam. I don't interpret that as thin foam, but the opposite--thick foam or only 40% aerated.

sanrensho--Thank you for pointing out that the cake was inverted to cool in the cakechef pictures, I missed that.  Re:  sugar at bottom of cake, one internet recipe said to sprinkle sugar on the pan bottom before you poured the batter in.

jumanggy--I agree that the Ong cake is especially delicious.  I'm just going to keep that cake recipe as it is, do separate, stiff white/yolk foams and bake like a chiffon.  I think his high sugar, extra yolks, and oil makes a really tender sponge that is its own hybrid.  I'll keep watching this site for a good kasutera recipe and technique.  Although it annoys me that the picture in Ong's book seems to be of a kasutera, but not the one from his recipe. I agree with your observation that a part of the kasutera technique we see in the pictures and videos is beating the eggs to thin foam, not ribbon-forming thickness.

Edited by sanrensho, 08 August 2008 - 03:52 PM.

[SuzySushi]

It's too bad there isn't a Bunmeido outlet in California, or anywhere on the continent for that matter. Maybe you can find a local source that flies it in?

Ah! But there is a Bunmeido in Hawaii, and they do mail orders:

http://www.hawaiibid.com/bunmeido/

[sanrensho]

Ah! But there is a Bunmeido in Hawaii, and they do mail orders:

http://www.hawaiibid.com/bunmeido/

Good to know! I wasn't aware that Bunmeido Hawaii is shipping now.

[shinju]

Sanrenso - that tune takes me back to my youth. Yogurt kasutera sounds very interesting. I wish I had Bunmeido kasutera that I can do some serious comparison too.

Jumanggy - thanks for the video and another good lead. Within a week, I plan on testing that recipe as well.

Mary Elizabeth - I have Nijiya within 5 minutes drive in Mountain View. How was that one? I've purchased several at Nijiya in the past and have been disappointed. Don't remember the brands I purchased, but they seemed really dried out. Are you happy with your purchase?

Last night I started my first kasutera. And, wouldn't you know it, I also made the same mistake by not oiling the pan that goes on top. I thought it would not touch, but I was wrong.

My batter was quite thick going in after whipping for 6 minutes - I may back off on that a bit to make the batter thinner.

The taste of was right on, not too eggy and not too honey-like. But, the 35-40 minutes in my oven was too long. I need to decrease the timing. It was bit too dry for my taste, but the texture was quite appealing. It was a little chewy - dense but light at the same time. I would like to see finer texture though. Still needs some tweaking due to my lack of technique and my oven that seems to overbake at times.

I used 9 x 9 x 2 in square pan and it was too big for this recipe. Kasutera ended up being a little over 1 inch high. I also inverted the cake after it finished baking before covering it with plastic. The bottom is where it hit the top pan - so not much darkness there.

[Mary Elizabeth]

sanrensho--zarame is beautiful. That's a great technique.

shinju--OK, I am really impressed. That top crust especially is right on the mark. It has a smoothe surface and is distinct from the cake. When you're done tweaking, will you tell us how you did it? You really did a terrific job!

And no, that cake from Nijiya was not very good, due to storage problems probably.

[jumanggy]

Here's my first make/taste of Castella (Pichet Ong):


Really, really good. My top crust wasn't as dark as Ong's (?) but it did look much more velvety (maybe that's not even the way Castella's supposed to be, but everyone liked it a lot). As you can see there's about a half-centimeter contraction of the cake; there's a raised rim of top crust all around (probably from where it remained stuck to the parchment as the cake sank). Maybe I'll invert it as it cools next time but frankly I'm not too bothered by it. Plus there's the risk of the top crust ripping apart!

Edited by jumanggy, 10 August 2008 - 07:00 AM.

[Mary Elizabeth]

jumanggy--You did a nice job. That cake looks great. Mine sunk more in the middle when I tried half the recipe in an 8" round cake pan. My technique, without doubt.

Did you put a parchment collar around the sides of the pan?

Nice photos, as usual.

Edited by Mary Elizabeth, 10 August 2008 - 02:47 PM.

[jumanggy]

Yep Once I saw that the CakeChef chef used a parchment collar, I took it as a green light to add my own. Nothing more tragic than a cake destroyed at that last step of unmolding!
I didn't grease the parchment collar, though.

[Mary Elizabeth]

jumanggy--I greased my parchment liner, which led to the very collapsed castella at the top of the thread.

sanrenso--You mention that the foam is 40-50% -- (is that a volume to weight ratio?) -- and that that is a thick foam, not a weak foam as I had suggested. That is a very important point. The cakes are light, with alot of air incorporated; it is just that the air bubbles are small and even, so that it looks like a tight crumb. The thread "Tiger skin roulade" has a picture of another type of sponge with small, regular bubbles. I wonder how they get bubbles like that? I skimmed through Mcgee's "egg foam" section, but I couldn't find anything that addressed that issue. I have seen cookbooks say to beat slow-medium to get a small bubble/stable foam. I wonder if they use some emulsifier to get that fine grain, or if it is beating technique.

[sanrensho]

sanrenso--You mention that the foam is 40-50% -- (is that a volume to weight ratio?) -- and that that is a thick foam, not a weak foam as I had suggested.  That is a very important point.

Japanese chefs and cookbooks use a different way to refer to the stiffness of whipping, which I find a bit more precise. Stiff peaks would be the reference point, so here the chef is referring to 4/10ths or 5/10ths of stiff speaks. Or, if you prefer, "whipping 4/10ths of a way to stiff peaks."

I simplified this to percentages for ease of explanation, which may have been confusing. I hope the above makes sense.

Overall, I wouldn't categorize traditional castella cake as light by any stretch of the imagination. It is dense but moist (yet not soaked) and the crumb doesn't fall apart. If you break apart a slice of castella, it separates more into clumps I guess. Not crumbs. It is very distinct from any sponge cake I have made or had (genoise, separated egg or chiffon--unsoaked or soaked).

Not to be repetitive, but I have had lots of "castella cake" that is not like the real thing at all--from non-Japanese bakeries especially. But also cheap castella cake in Japan that was just plain sponge cake--nothing special.

Edited by sanrensho, 11 August 2008 - 12:07 PM.

[sanrensho]

The thread "Tiger skin roulade" has a picture of another type of sponge with small, regular bubbles.  I wonder how they get bubbles like that?  I skimmed through Mcgee's "egg foam" section, but I couldn't find anything that addressed that issue.  I have seen cookbooks say to beat slow-medium to get a small bubble/stable foam. I wonder if they use some emulsifier to get that fine grain, or if it is beating technique.

This is straying from the topic, but the tiger skin sponge cakes that I've had have been from commercial Chinese bakeries (here in Vancouver). My understanding is that they basically all use commercial emulsifiers in their sponge cakes.

I can't remember the name of the product at the moment, but these emulsifiers are also used for sponge cakes that you by from supermarkets and lower-end bakeries in Japan. (It was a Japanese product.)

EDITED: I found the link. Riken is a Japanese company.

http://www.rikenvita...fier/index.html

http://www.rikenvita...ion/04cake.html

Also, this thread talks about the use of mixes/stabilizers in sponge cakes typically found in Chinese bakeries. Read from post #9 down:

http://forums.egulle...showtopic=71162

Edited by sanrensho, 11 August 2008 - 12:23 PM.

[jumanggy]

Japanese chefs and cookbooks use a different way to refer to the stiffness of whipping, which I find a bit more precise. Stiff peaks would be the reference point, so here the chef is referring to 4/10ths or 5/10ths of stiff speaks. Or, if you prefer, "whipping 4/10ths of a way to stiff peaks."

Gosh, this system takes a LOT of getting used to! I'd have no idea what half a stiff peak is! I wonder if they have a "peak diagram" (10%, 20%, 30%, so on) in Japanese baking books

[Mary Elizabeth]

sanrensho--Those were great links! Thanks.

[shinju]

Wondering if anyone made better progress with kasutera recipes?

Love to hear them!