616 replies to this topic

[FoodMan]

I picked up this book recently and started with the simple cured bacon recipe. I ended up letting it cure for about 9 days instead of 7 until it felt firm, and when I went to do the roasting today it felt really slimy before I rinsed it off. No off smells, it actually doesn't really smell like anything. Did I mess up?

I think you should be fine if the bacon was refrigerated the whole time. I've gone for more than the exact 7 days many times.

[Harry]

I have a question on corned beef and pastrami: does it hurt to leave the meat in the brine a day or two longer than called for in the recipe, just to be sure the meat is cured all the way through? I've brined the corned beef for five days as called for in the book with great results. Other times I've left it in the brine a little longer and still found a streak of gray running through the center of the meat. I haven't tackled pastrami yet but I'll be nervous about removing the meat from the brine after three days, especially since running down a beef plate is going to take some legwork. Ruhlman, are you out there? If so, thanks in advance for any guidance you can give me.

[mkayahara]

Has anyone made the beef jerky from the book? I see Ruhlman calls for it to be dried at 32C/90F, which seems rather low to me from a food safety standpoint, and is lower than my dehydrator will go. Other sources I've consulted say anything from 120F to 150F... any guidance?

[Chris Hennes]

There is plenty of salt in there, and the drying action itself is helping you out: the water activity should be quite low: so from a food safety standpoint I think it's not an issue. I am not sure what the advantage of going so low is, though, I'd just go with the instructions on your dehydrator.

[mkayahara]

Thanks, Chris. I think I'll probably split the difference, because the dehydrator instructions say 150F, which strikes me as a CYA temperature.

[mkayahara]

For the record, I ended up going with 115F, and the beef seemed to be done after about six hours. It's highly addictive as-is, but I think I'll experiment with some variations on spicing next time, just for kicks.

[Chris Amirault]

I'm a few weeks into drying the book's blackstrap ham in attempt number two at this recipe, and I realize I'm not quite clear on what texture I'm looking for when it's done. It's still squishy in the middle, no doubt about it, but am I going for firm all the way through like a peperone or something with more give?

[BadRabbit]

Excuse me if this has already been covered but I used the index and the search and couldn't find it.

Anyway, I want to use the smoked bacon recipe but I am planning on cold smoking it. Has anybody else tried this? How long should I smoke it and what temp should I shoot for?

[Chris Amirault]

Well, since you're not trying to get it to a final temp (60C iirc), then you're making decisions about flavor only. Why not smoke 'em for a few hours, record it, and then see what you think later on?

How will you finish cooking the bellies, btw? If you have a SV rig, that works wonders.

[BadRabbit]

Well, since you're not trying to get it to a final temp (60C iirc), then you're making decisions about flavor only. Why not smoke 'em for a few hours, record it, and then see what you think later on?

How will you finish cooking the bellies, btw? If you have a SV rig, that works wonders.

I do have a sous vide rig but I was mostly planning on just smoking and slicing and using like I would store bought bacon. I will probably take some and cut it into lardons for coq au vin as well. There's not a reason I need to precook is there?

On my next batch, I might try some different cooking techniques after the initial smoke.

[jmolinari]

Bacon is traditionally cold smoked. Charcuterie calls out hot smoking for the simple fact that it's much easier to do at home.
It'll work well. Just make sure to use nitrites as it'll be in a room temp. zone for quite a few hours.

[BadRabbit]

Bacon is traditionally cold smoked. Charcuterie calls out hot smoking for the simple fact that it's much easier to do at home.
It'll work well. Just make sure to use nitrites as it'll be in a room temp. zone for quite a few hours.

The recipe contains pink salt. That's all that is needed, correct?

Edited because I misread the post.

Edited by BadRabbit, 10 May 2011 - 01:43 PM.

[jmolinari]

yes, cure #1 since you won't be aging it for long term i would not use #2.

[dougal]

Bacon curing - in the USA, NitrAte (thus No 2) is prohibited from (IIRC) some (rather than all) commercial bacon cures. (IIRC its not prohibited from dry cures, only brines/pickles.)
There is no such ban in Europe (where for example Brominated flour is banned everywhere).

In the UK, Nitrate is commonly seen on ingredient listings on commercial packs of bacon.



Cold smoking time - this greatly depends on your taste preference and on the intensity of your smoke! My Pro-Q (which is excellent; my thanks to Jason for the original heads-up on that) produces nice thin smoke.
Especially if you are hitting it with heavy smoke (or are curing with nitrate), giving the bacon at least a few days (well wrapped - for everything else's sake) in the fridge, to 'mature' and equilibrate after smoking will improve your product.
The nice thing about cold smoking is that, if you want something to be "more smoked", you can just put it back in the smoker for some more time. In fact both Jane Grigson and Erlandson specifically point out that cold smoking need not be continuous, and that intermittent smoking can on occasion be advantageous

[BadRabbit]

Bacon curing - in the USA, NitrAte (thus No 2) is prohibited from (IIRC) some (rather than all) commercial bacon cures. (IIRC its not prohibited from dry cures, only brines/pickles.)
There is no such ban in Europe (where for example Brominated flour is banned everywhere).

In the UK, Nitrate is commonly seen on ingredient listings on commercial packs of bacon.



Cold smoking time - this greatly depends on your taste preference and on the intensity of your smoke! My Pro-Q (which is excellent; my thanks to Jason for the original heads-up on that) produces nice thin smoke.
Especially if you are hitting it with heavy smoke (or are curing with nitrate), giving the bacon at least a few days (well wrapped - for everything else's sake) in the fridge, to 'mature' and equilibrate after smoking will improve your product.
The nice thing about cold smoking is that, if you want something to be "more smoked", you can just put it back in the smoker for some more time. In fact both Jane Grigson and Erlandson specifically point out that cold smoking need not be continuous, and that intermittent smoking can on occasion be advantageous

Thanks for all that info. I've been hot smoking since practically birth but I've just started cold smoking and all I've done so far is salmon (I just have a DIY rig).

[BadRabbit]

One other question, I live in the south so almost all the back fat here is already salted. I have talked to a few butchers locally but all their fat is used to produce their own sausages or is already spoken for by a customer with a standing order.

Can I just soak salted fat back and change the water a few times to reduce the salt content to something negligible or is it easier just to use it and adjust the salt in the sausage recipe?



Edit: If this has already been discussed, could somebody point me in the right direction. Oddly enough, searching two large threads on Charcuterie for combinations of salt, pork, fat, and back produces results only slightly less unwieldy than the threads in their entirety and I didn't see it on the index.

Edited by BadRabbit, 11 May 2011 - 06:55 AM.

[dougal]

... I've been hot smoking since practically birth but I've just started cold smoking and all I've done so far is salmon (I just have a DIY rig).

++This++ might be of interest - the Pro-Q is pretty cheap in the US.
It works very well, but it does want fine and dry sawdust.

[FoodMan]

Can I just soak salted fat back and change the water a few times to reduce the salt content to something negligible or is it easier just to use it and adjust the salt in the sausage recipe?

Yes you can and I have done just that on a couple of occasions when I needed some back fat. Like you deduced, reducing the amount of salt in the recipe might be needed depending on how salty the backfat was to start with and how long you soaked it for. I would start with reducing the salt by 20% or so and do a quenelle taste. You can add more after that if you need to. I find that after the soak, the backfat is almost salt free honestly.

Another option is to use pork belly instead of the backfat if you can get it. In this case count on the belly being a good 50% fat (but could be much more) and 50% lean and adjust the recipe accordingly.

[Chris Amirault]

Does the effect of salting the fat change its texture markedly? I'd think it would for fresh sausages in particular...

[FoodMan]

Does the effect of salting the fat change its texture markedly? I'd think it would for fresh sausages in particular...

Not that I could notice and what I made with it was fresh sausage.

[BadRabbit]

Does the effect of salting the fat change its texture markedly? I'd think it would for fresh sausages in particular...

My guess is that soaking the fat in water is likely to undo some\all of the texture changes since a large part of the effect of salt on texture is the drawing out of moisture.

[BadRabbit]

Can I just soak salted fat back and change the water a few times to reduce the salt content to something negligible or is it easier just to use it and adjust the salt in the sausage recipe?

Yes you can and I have done just that on a couple of occasions when I needed some back fat. Like you deduced, reducing the amount of salt in the recipe might be needed depending on how salty the backfat was to start with and how long you soaked it for. I would start with reducing the salt by 20% or so and do a quenelle taste. You can add more after that if you need to. I find that after the soak, the backfat is almost salt free honestly.

Another option is to use pork belly instead of the backfat if you can get it. In this case count on the belly being a good 50% fat (but could be much more) and 50% lean and adjust the recipe accordingly.

How long do you usually soak for? Will an hour or so do anything or do I need to do it overnight? Do you swap the water at any point?

Edited by BadRabbit, 12 May 2011 - 02:07 PM.

[BadRabbit]

So this weekend, I smoked a pork butt and used the pork dry rub from the book(although I did add a little garlic powder). I had also used a simple brine injection of salt, sugar and ancho. It was very good and the pork was well received by the crowd.

I also made both BBQ sauces from the book. The Carolina sauce was NOT good at all and I usually love that type of sauce.

The chipotle BBQ sauce on the other hand was nearly universally loved though everybody agreed that it had little in common with what is commonly called BBQ sauce. One guest even poured her sauce on the potato salad and declared it delicious. I liked it a lot too but felt it would really be better with either beef ribs or brisket. My wife seems to think it would be good with chicken but I'm not so sure.

Most of the meat preparations have been discussed on here but the condiments haven't as much. Anyone else found anything good in the back section of the book? Found anything we should avoid?

Edited by BadRabbit, 16 May 2011 - 10:56 AM.

[FoodMan]

Can I just soak salted fat back and change the water a few times to reduce the salt content to something negligible or is it easier just to use it and adjust the salt in the sausage recipe?

Yes you can and I have done just that on a couple of occasions when I needed some back fat. Like you deduced, reducing the amount of salt in the recipe might be needed depending on how salty the backfat was to start with and how long you soaked it for. I would start with reducing the salt by 20% or so and do a quenelle taste. You can add more after that if you need to. I find that after the soak, the backfat is almost salt free honestly.

Another option is to use pork belly instead of the backfat if you can get it. In this case count on the belly being a good 50% fat (but could be much more) and 50% lean and adjust the recipe accordingly.

How long do you usually soak for? Will an hour or so do anything or do I need to do it overnight? Do you swap the water at any point?

Not sure an hour is enough. I usually do it the night before and swap the water once.

[Chris Hennes]

I made the Spanish Chorizo off page 190. I tweaked the recipe a bit to increase the fat content (the recipe calls for 2.25 kg of shoulder, but my shoulder was a bit leaner than I would have liked, so I used 1.75kg shoulder and 500g of belly fat). I also used F-LC instead of F-RM-52, on recommendation from Modernist Cuisine.

After ten days at 60°F and between 70% and 80% humidity, the sausage had lost 30% of its weight and the internal pH was about 4.4: I vacuum sealed it at that point and let it cure for an additional ten days at 60°F, then moved to the refrigerator. At that point the internal moisture had evened out nicely and the sausage was ready.



The flavor is excellent, but of course entirely dependent on your Pimenton. I guess mine was good! I found the texture a bit moister than the Spanish chorizo's I've had: I think a 40% moisture loss may be a more appropriate target here, however.

[BadRabbit]

Made the Duck Ham and the Duck confit with cloves this weekend.

I had a couple of issues with the ham. First, the weight he gives seem unreasonable for the number of breasts listed. I had a pretty large Pekin and each breast only weighed 9oz as opposed to the 1 lb average he lists. I don't think he meant 6 whole breasts (i.e. 12 breast muscles) since the brine amount listed would not have been enough to cover that many (though I guess if the indicidual breasts were nearly twice the size of mine you would have the same issue). Also, I felt the salt content was a little high. I am not sure whether to brine for less time on my second attempt or lower the salt content by 10% (it's not a long cured item so I'm not real worried about changing the salt).

Overall the ham was very good outside of the saltiness. Anybody found a good sauce to accompany it? I was thinking of making a sweetened bing cherry\red wine reduction.

The confit turned out well though I thought it could use a bit more clove.

Edited to clarify.

Edited by BadRabbit, 23 May 2011 - 07:09 AM.

[BadRabbit]

One other question about the duck ham:

Has anybody sliced it thin and tried to crisp it in a pan? I thought it might me good on a spinach salad.

[BadRabbit]

I made the Whiskey Glazed Chicken from page 81 and it produced the most beautiful looking smoked bird I've ever seen. Unfortunately, it wasn't the best tasting smoked bird I've ever made.

First, the meat was insanely salty and I had a slightly bigger bird than was called for and I brined it for 4 hours less. I can't imagine how it would have been had I used a smaller bird or more time. I like my food more salty than most people so if I thought it was salty, it would likely be inedible to others.

Second, the glaze does nothing to solve the issue with smoked chicken skin. Namely, that it turns to rubber. The glaze is delicious but since the only skin you can eat is that covering the breast (because it's thinner than the leg\thigh skin) the delicious glaze is mostly wasted.

Finally, the addition of the pink salt to the brine means the legs and thighs maintain a very raw pink look and I had considerable difficulty convincing my wife it was safe to eat.

Edited by BadRabbit, 13 June 2011 - 06:14 AM.

[qrn]

I made the Whiskey Glazed Chicken from page 81 and it produced the most beautiful looking smoked bird I've ever seen. Unfortunately, it wasn't the best tasting smoked bird I've ever made.

First, the meat was insanely salty and I had a slightly bigger bird than was called for and I brined it for 4 hours less. I can't imagine how it would have been had I used a smaller bird or more time. I like my food more salty than most people so if I thought it was salty, it would likely be inedible to others.

Second, the glaze does nothing to solve the issue with smoked chicken skin. Namely, that it turns to rubber. The glaze is delicious but since the only skin you can eat is that covering the breast (because it's thinner than the leg\thigh skin) the delicious glaze is mostly wasted.

Finally, the addition of the pink salt to the brine means the legs and thighs maintain a very raw pink look and I had considerable difficulty convincing my wife it was safe to eat.

yes his brine is a bit much(3%as I remember) ,and the times are way to long,if it long enough to come to equalibrium.
Bud

[Rico]

So, I'm a little late on the bandwagon, but I just finished drying and slicing some of the duck 'prosciutto'. It was an easy recipe, which explains why it was my first real success from the book. I'm starting to learn how rewarding this can be when it turns out ...