825 replies to this topic

[Robert Jueneman]

A fascinating series of posts, from all over the world.

Peter, I won't say that the I value is useless, as I haven't exhausted all possibilities -- especially for smaller cookers. But I've tried I=1, I=10, I=100, and I=250, and all of them have resulted in excessive overshoot, and in most cases takes too long to stabilize.

My previous tests with the 10 liter cooker showed that P=50 and P=75 produced too much overshoot, while P=100 produces maybe 1C overshoot, and P=200 takes too long to come up to temperature, so P=100 seems pretty close to optimum (with I=0, D=0). If you were cooking a small amount of something, e.g., a small pice of salmon, where he overshoot might matter, you ought to wait for everything to stabilize. But if you throw in a 500 g frozen steak, the overshoot would actually help.

So far, I have not been able to eliminate about a 0.2 to 0.3C long-term undershoot with that combination of PID parameters and the 1500B. Of course, with the 1500A or 1500C, you would never see it. Maybe I'll just give up and change the set point.

When you said an "ice brick" did you mean real ice, or one of those "Blue Ice" brick-like sealed containers? I'll be very interested to see the D values you come up with -- I'm going to be doing the same thing.

Joesan, let me differentiate between four different terms:

Resolution refers to the minimum observable difference in readings of settings. The 1500B offers 0.1C resolution. The 1500A and 1500C offers 1 degree resolution -- F or C, take your pick. 1C is too coarse for sous vide, at least to my way of thinking, but 1F is probably OK.

Accuracy (in my terminology, at least) refers to the relatively short term repeatability at a single reference temperature. In other words, if the SVM displays XX.Y today, and I calibrate the offset to match my reference thermometer within 0.05C, will it display the same result tomorrow? So far, it does. As to long-term accuracy/stability, ask me in a year from now!

Linearity (again, my terminology) means the difference between the SVM and my reference, across a wide range of temperatures. As I recall (I'm at work and don't have my notes in front of me), the 1500B had a linearity of plus or minus 1.5C from 38C to 85C, with the larger differences occurring at the higher temps. By contrast, the 1500C, which has a probe that is better at measuring higher temperatures but only offers 1F resolution, had significantly better linearity -- within 1F over the entire range. Its probe is also less likely to be damaged by very hot (boiling) water. Unfortunately, the 1500A/B probe is not interchangeable with the 1500C.

So...

To date I use the 1500B when cooking meat at 55.0 to 55.5C, because even 0.5C makes a significant difference in doneness; and I use the 1500C at 83C for vegetables, which (so far as I know) are not all that sensitive to the precise temperature.

Would I like a device with a probe that was dishwasher safe, would withstand boiling as well as freezing, and would be accurate to 0.1C or better across the entire range? Yes.

Would I pay $2000 each for two PolyScience circulators that would do that, if in fact they will (and I have yet to see any accuracy claims or test results that would substantiate that)? Not until I win the lottery!

And now a question. Has anyone tried inserting one of the Taylor one-piece digital dial-type thermometers into meat, and then sealing the entire thing in the sous vide bag? I'm not certain whether the entire thermometer will withstand high heat, but it ought to hold up to 55C OK.

Is there any obvious advantage in measuring the internal temperature, or are Douglas Baldwin's tables good enough?

And wouldn't it be cool to have a probe with an integral RFID chip in it, for a remote readout?

[joesan]

Thanks Robert - I'm aware of the difference between resolution and accuracy. For me the bottom line has to be accuracy after all what's the point of your nice display showing 54.3C if your actual temperature is 58C. If you notice the specs for most controllers tend to have a larger percentage accuracy for F than C, basically because F is more granular.

I think that for SV the most critical range that has to be accurate is between 48C to 55C or 60C with 0.1C accuracy. Or obviously the equivalent in F. Outside of that I don't think the temperature has to be to so precise. Seems like this is obtainable with the SVM 1500B from your experiments.

As regards the Polyscience circulators I think they're nice to have but not strictly necessary if you can get to 0.1C with a much cheaper option. The extra $1500 you have left over buys a hell of a lot of Pata Negra and fine cuts of beef...

[Mallet]

I would argue that stability is just as important as accuracy, actually it's probably more important (you can always correct for systematic error :) ).

[Robert Jueneman]

joesan, I hope I didn't insult you by defining my terms. I sometimes forget that on this blog, at least, there are probably more science geeks than cooks!

And Martin, I agree that stability is more important than accuracy, assuming you do adjust for systematic error. However, if you are using your equipment over a broad range of temperatures, linearity may be even more important.

[e_monster]

Robert Jueneman wrote:

My previous tests with the 10 liter cooker showed that P=50 and P=75 produced too much overshoot,

Was this with I and D 0?

(Oh, it is also worth mentioning whether you are using the unit in C or F mode since the values of P I and D are related to the mode that the unit is operating in)

[Robert Jueneman]

Good point. P=180 (F) or 100 ©, with I=0 and D=0. The 50 and 75 values were for the 1500B, which I only use in Celsius.

[blackp]

Robert (Jueneman)  - thanks for the interesting observations around the SVM controllers. I'm thinking about adding to my SV detritus by adding a SVM controller. I really want accuracy to the 0.1C level with this next one.

I can see on the SVM site that the 1500B model you mention has resolution of 0.1C but accuracy is only 1%. This is obviously a big difference.

1% doesn't seem much but it could have a non-negligible effect over prolonged periods of time I guess.

In your testing have you been able to confirm that this model is more accurate long term than 1%?

When I was researching my purchase Frank Hsu from SVM recommended the 1500C over the 1500B. It has a newer type of thermocouple which is more accurate at typical Sous Vide temps. Even though 1500C only displays whole degrees as opposed to the 1500B which displays 10ths, he said that with less error from the sensor overall you get a more stable result. I was surprised that he was recommending a cheaper alternative. Unusual for a company to "down sell".

Also the 1500B model is Centigrade ONLY - the display is not wide enough to enable Fahrenheit.

Regards,

Peter.

[blackp]

See my comments in red below:

A fascinating series of posts, from all over the world.

Peter, I won't say that the I value is useless, as I haven't exhausted all possibilities -- especially for smaller cookers.  But I've tried I=1, I=10, I=100, and I=250, and all of them have resulted in excessive overshoot, and in most cases takes too long to stabilize.

I will try keeping P=200 as that got me to nearly zero overrun.  I want to try the same settings @ 100% power, also applying some "D" value to see if it helps counteract the drop when adding food.  In theory it should as it reacts to rate of change rather than amount of change (that is the "I" value).  In any case I will make a couple of tests - I don't want to change too many things at once or I will not be able to tell why things changed.

My previous tests with the 10 liter cooker showed that P=50 and P=75 produced too much overshoot, while P=100 produces maybe 1C overshoot, and P=200 takes too long to come up to temperature, so P=100 seems pretty close to optimum (with I=0, D=0). If you were cooking a small amount of something, e.g., a small pice of salmon, where he overshoot might matter, you ought to wait for everything to stabilize. But if you throw in a 500 g frozen steak, the overshoot would actually help.

So far, I have not been able to eliminate about a 0.2 to 0.3C long-term undershoot with that combination of PID parameters and the 1500B. Of course, with the 1500A or 1500C, you would never see it.  Maybe I'll just give up and change the set point.

I am using a 1500C but measuring temperature with a Thermoworks thermocouple thermometer.

When you said an "ice brick" did you mean real ice, or one of those "Blue Ice" brick-like sealed containers?  I'll be very interested to see the D values you come up with -- I'm going to be doing the same thing.

What I added was a plastic bottle nearly filled with frozen water.

Joesan, let me differentiate between four different terms:

Resolution refers to the minimum observable difference in readings of settings.  The 1500B offers 0.1C resolution.  The 1500A and 1500C offers 1 degree resolution -- F or C, take your pick.  1C is too coarse for sous vide, at least to my way of thinking, but 1F is probably OK.

Accuracy (in my terminology, at least) refers to the relatively short term repeatability at a single reference temperature.  In other words, if the SVM displays XX.Y today, and I calibrate the offset to match my reference thermometer within 0.05C, will it display the same result tomorrow?  So far, it does.  As to long-term accuracy/stability, ask me in a year from now!

Linearity (again, my terminology) means the difference between the SVM and my reference, across a wide range of temperatures.  As I recall (I'm at work and don't have my notes in front of me), the 1500B had a linearity of plus or minus 1.5C from 38C to 85C, with the larger differences occurring at the higher temps.  By contrast, the 1500C, which has a probe that is better at measuring higher temperatures but only offers 1F resolution, had significantly better linearity -- within 1F over the entire range.  Its probe is also less likely to be damaged by very hot (boiling) water.  Unfortunately, the 1500A/B probe is not interchangeable with the 1500C.

So...

To date I use the 1500B when cooking meat at 55.0 to 55.5C, because even 0.5C makes a significant difference in doneness; and I use the 1500C at 83C for vegetables, which (so far as I know) are not all that sensitive to the precise temperature.

Would I like a device with a probe that was dishwasher safe, would withstand boiling as well as freezing, and would be accurate to 0.1C or better across the entire range? Yes.

Would I pay $2000 each for two PolyScience circulators that would do that, if in fact they will (and I have yet to see any accuracy claims or test results that would substantiate that)?  Not until I win the lottery!

And now a question.  Has anyone tried inserting one of the Taylor one-piece digital dial-type thermometers into meat, and then sealing the entire thing in the sous vide bag?  I'm not certain whether the entire thermometer will withstand high heat, but it ought to hold up to 55C OK.

The Thermoworks device I have can be used to pierce a bag of food through some high density foam tape.  the tape seals around the needle probe and the bag remains sealed.

Is there any obvious advantage in measuring the internal temperature, or are Douglas Baldwin's tables good enough?

And wouldn't it be cool to have a probe with an integral RFID chip in it, for a remote readout?

[Robert Jueneman]

Peter, this is all true.

Frank is justifiably concerned about the basic accuracy and linearity of the probe, and according to my tests the 1500C is demonstrably better in that regard.

However, I bought the 1500A originally, and then I got both the 1500B and 1500C, and I use each one for the purpose for which it is best suited. Even though I'm more used to thinking in Fahrenheit (what a ridiculous, obsolete scale!), the additional accuracy and resolution of the 1500B is well worth it, I think, even for those of us in the backwards, non-metric United States, and especially when cooking meat at relatively low temperatures where the additional resolution/accuracy is more important. Sigh.

Unfortunately, my 1500A's sensor became erratic, perhaps because I tried to calibrate it with boiling water -- don't do that! And a young kitten chewed through the 1500C sensor's cable while it was sitting on the floor. So at the moment, I'm checking the mailbox daily, and waiting for some replacement/spare probes to arrive.

Re the "down selling." Frank is or was a chef, and his wife still operates a barbeque joint. So he knows the theory as well as the practice. I doubt that he is making millions or even thousands off the SVM, but I admire his intellectual honesty, and I am happy to recommend his products and the company. May his tribe increase.

[joesan]

I guess all the parameters matter to a degree (no pun intended).

Robert I took no offence at all, these forums are for learning and discussion, it's just that the actual point that I was making was that one should take care to avoid confusing a high resolution display of the temperature with it's actual empirical accuracy.

But now I'm confused again because of SVM recommendation of the 1500C. You've used them all, Robert, - which do you recommend as best able to accurately maintain 54.4C over 8 hours say?

[blackp]

More experiment results:


I firstly tried increasing the power to 100% (leaving the P=200, I=0, D=0) and the result was about a 30% decrease in the time to come up to temperature, but also about an overrun of the same magnitude. Probably should have been expected. As the temp stayed between 0.5C and 0.75C over the target for a while I aborted that trial as the 75% power setting got me much closer to the target consistently.

Next I tried going back to 75% power and setting D to 40 - I put the same plastic bottle of ice into the cooker at the same time (1:15). Not a big difference.

The astute will see that my starting temps were not the same so I'm not certain that that fact didn't have an impact.

I'm giving up manual temp tracking for now. Apparently my USB data logger is only about 2 weeks away. Then I can remove any "stupid human" errors and keep the test running for longer.

Cheers,

Peter.

[blackp]

I guess all the parameters matter to a degree (no pun intended).

You are correct with respect to the "P" parameter - it matters to a degree.

The "I" and "D" parameters relate to time so they matter for a while.....

java script:add_smilie(%22:wink:%22)

[Mallet]

Taking this thread back to cooking for a bit, has anyone experimented with SV mushrooms? slkinsey did some SV shiitakes (they were in a bag with chicken and scallions), but other than that I haven't been able to find much in the way of guidelines/recipes. For example, Under Pressure has not a single mushroom preparation sous-vide, as far as I can tell.

Is it just a waste of time? Perhaps proper browning of mushrooms is too integral to their flavour. Wild morels are coming up soon, and I don't want to waste any (assuming, of course, I manage to find any!).

[slkinsey]

Some questions for the data-loggers:

1. Am I correct in assuming that these are setups which do not have active circulation?

2. To what extent are you testing for consistency of temperature throughout the water bath?

3. Are any of the data-loggers seeing accuracy and consistency markedly better than what blackp with their non-circulating PID setups?

4. To what extent does the recorded temperature accord with the tempurature displayed by the PID?

[Robert Jueneman]

Joesan, once the SVM stabilizes, it seems to hold steady no matter which unit (1500A, 1500C, or 1500C) you use. I often cook things for 48 hours, and only occasionally do I see the displayed temperature vary by a single digit. (I still don't have the kinks work out in my data logger to automate some of these measurements.)

So the primary question is one of resolution, rather than stability. If you want to hold the temperature at 54.4C, rather than say 54.1C, then the 1500B is your only choice. If 1 degree
F is close enough, than any of the three ought to be good for you.

I would not be particularly surprised to find out that the three units all share precisely the same PID engine, and that the only difference is the display, and the ability to specify fractional degrees. In other words, the 1500C might be just as stable as the 1500B, i.e., within 0.1C or 0.2F, except for the fact that you wouldn't know and wouldn't be able to specify WHICH fraction of a degree it was shooting for.

I do see that with P=100, I=0, D=0 on my 1500B, the SVM stabilizes at about 0.2C lower than the set point, for reasons I don't understand. Maybe the power output at that point just isn't enough to keep up with the heat loss, when I am using a circulator pump and have only a sheet of Lexan over the top, rather than closing the lid. (This is so I can continue to measure the temperature with the Traceable 4000 thermometer.)

In my still limited experience, 1F or 0.5C seems to make an observable difference in the doneness of beef or lamb, salmon, or the perfect egg, but I'm not sure anything less than that is significant.

What has the experience of others been -- is tighter control beneficial, or even noticeable in practice?

slkinsey, although I don't yet have my data logger set up to completely automate the data logging, I am using an inexpensive submerged garden fountain pump for circulation, although I have never seen any significant difference or hot spots without it. The SVMs probe is normally sitting on a perforated metal disk about two inches off the bottom of the cooker, and the reference thermometer is suspended through a hole in a Lexan sheet and touching the same metal disk with its tip.

Once everything has stabilized, they agree within the limits of resolution and rounding error.

When using the I parameter, I sometime see differences between the display and the thermometer, but I haven't fully characterized them. I tend to think that what is being displayed may be the result of the integrated value, rather than the direct readout from the probe, but I don't have any way to confirm that.

Bob

Edited by Robert Jueneman, 01 May 2009 - 08:21 PM.

[Robert Jueneman]

Today I started some 48-hour brisket. But I noticed that the temperature in the rice cooker was again 0.2C less than the set point of 55.5C. So on a hunch, I adjusted the PID parameters from P=100 (Celsius), I=0, D=0 to P=100, I=600, D=0.

Six hours later, the display on the SVM 1500B was reading 55.5. Success, I thought!

But no, kemo sabe!

(No, that's not some obscure Japanese cooking technique, nor an equally obscure translation of the Kama Sutra, but Tonto's Navaho name for the Lone Ranger. I guess I am showing my age.)

The Traceable 4000 reference thermometer was still registering 55.278, just as it had been before I made the change!

I reset the SVM to I=0, and within a minute, the display was back down to 55.3, with no significant change in the reference reading.

I see two possible explanations. The first is that the display is showing the result of the integration, but in that case, why isn't the actual temperature rising to meet the set point?

The other possibility is that when I=0, the calibration offset is not being taken into account in the PID optimization, i.e., it's a bug.

The third of two explanations is that both possibilities are true.

This seems rather strange, although admittedly the effects are minor. I've written to Frank Hsu, but for the moment I am out of ideas, except to compensate by changing the set point slightly.

Bob

[joesan]

Bob - thanks for your thorough reply. It's very helpful.

Under normal circumstances I wouldn't bother with a 0.1C temperature difference in just about anything but with SV, especially long duration SV, it does seem to make an appreciable difference e.g. to get meat just a point.

Will be interesting to see what Frank says regarding the small difference in displayed versus actual temperature.

[Robert Jueneman]

The absolutely perfect egg -- ostrich egg sous vide?

Whole Foods in Los Altos, CA had four or five. Holy cow are those big! Holy cow, are those expensive!

Has anyone tried it? At $30 each, they're a bit much to experiment with all that casually, but what an entree it could make for a party, if someone could figure out what to do with them

I'm thinking about contacting a local ostrich farm, to see if they would subsidize a series of experiments to develop the ideal time/temperature combination.

[nathanm]

Very cool that they sell them....

I don't think you need very many to experiment with. One good test will tell you most of what you need to know. I have not tried to cook one, but if they were available locally to me (Seattle) I would definitely try to cook one with a temperature probe in it.

A rough calculation suggests that it would take about 5 hours to reach temperature on the inside, assuming you are going to cook it to 65C starting at 5C.

The time will depend on temperature, but only within a small range (i.e. plus or minus 30 min in a roughly 5 hour cooking time).

I suspect that the protein coagulation (i.e. cooking) will occur at tempertaures similar to chicken eggs. Quail, duck and goose eggs have very similar tempertures, so I bet ostrich would too, but of course that could be wrong. I have not tried one.

The problem with ostrich eggs sous vide is that they are so big. 5 hours total cooking time translates into about 4 hours within the so-called "danger zone" temperature range. This is right at the edge of what is officially acceptable. I think that would likely be fine.

[GPStu]

Taking this thread back to cooking for a bit, has anyone experimented with SV mushrooms? slkinsey did some SV shiitakes (they were in a bag with chicken and scallions), but other than that I haven't been able to find much in the way of guidelines/recipes. For example, Under Pressure has not a single mushroom preparation sous-vide, as far as I can tell.

Is it just a waste of time? Perhaps proper browning of mushrooms is too integral to their flavour. Wild morels are coming up soon, and I don't want to waste any (assuming, of course, I manage to find any!).

I was experimenting with vegetables at 185 F. for an hour. On some, I felt the package until there was give. I think the carrots went 90 min. I did potatoes, carrots, broccoli, and whole mushrooms.

Frankly, I was not impressed with the results. EXCEPT for the mushrooms. They came out rich flavored and great. A lot of potential for various finishing techniques - or none.

The potatoes were cut in a 1/4" dice and tasted good, but compared to what versatility you can get with potato preparations, no big deal. Carrots were done, but not impressive. Broccoli yuch. I am very willing to hear results from others that might give more interesting veggies.

Stu

[Qwerty]

Wow, I thought veg. done sous vide were great. I've done baby beets, carrots, onions (white pearl), asparagus, baby turnips and artichokes. They were all fantastic. I thought the sous vide method allowed for great texture--they weren't overcooked nor were they mushy. I thought that the flavor was also enhanced, like the beets tasted cleaner and more beet like.

[Robert Jueneman]

Nathan, I might try the experiment, but I'm at a loss to know how to serve or plate them, or what to serve them with.

With a "perfect" chicken egg, the yolk comes out like a squishy yellow ping-pong ball, while the white is more or less coagulated -- I think that depends on the time.

My understanding is that the proportion of yolk to white is much greater with an ostrich egg, so the results might be more like a squishy tennis ball.

But then what? It's way too much for one person, no matter what kind of side dish goes with it.

I guess you could serve classic steak tartare for 6 to 10 people, with the yolk on top, and then divvy it up at the table??! Any other ideas?

(This may be a classic case of a solution in search of a problem. -:)

[KennethT]

Taking this thread back to cooking for a bit, has anyone experimented with SV mushrooms? slkinsey did some SV shiitakes (they were in a bag with chicken and scallions), but other than that I haven't been able to find much in the way of guidelines/recipes. For example, Under Pressure has not a single mushroom preparation sous-vide, as far as I can tell.

Is it just a waste of time? Perhaps proper browning of mushrooms is too integral to their flavour. Wild morels are coming up soon, and I don't want to waste any (assuming, of course, I manage to find any!).

I was experimenting with vegetables at 185 F. for an hour. On some, I felt the package until there was give. I think the carrots went 90 min. I did potatoes, carrots, broccoli, and whole mushrooms.

Frankly, I was not impressed with the results. EXCEPT for the mushrooms. They came out rich flavored and great. A lot of potential for various finishing techniques - or none.

The potatoes were cut in a 1/4" dice and tasted good, but compared to what versatility you can get with potato preparations, no big deal. Carrots were done, but not impressive. Broccoli yuch. I am very willing to hear results from others that might give more interesting veggies.

Stu

I experimented with asparagus last night... I got really nice thick ones that I peeled, seasoned then in the bag with a couple pats of butter... Into the bath at 150F (65.6C) for about 8 minutes (as per instructions from discussions MUCH earlier in this thread).. then shocked in ice water and kept refrigerated until ready to serve... reheated in 128F (53.3C) bath used for cooking lamb...

The results - my wife loved them... I also enjoyed them... they had the texture of being "cooked" but still had a crispness to them... if you like your asaparagus on the soft side, this may not be the way to go... they also had a really fresh taste - more so than with asparagus that I do normally...

[howsmatt]

Did yukon and sweet potato at 185 for 2 hours or so. Good amount of butter-some salt and pepper. Nice creamy confit style potatoes. I threw a few in the oven to crisp up. These were just ok, not better than classic cooking methods for crispy baked fries.

I think these might be very good for mash. Might put the leftovers through the food mill tomorrow.

[Mallet]

I was experimenting with vegetables at 185 F. for an hour. On some, I felt the package until there was give. I think the carrots went 90 min. I did potatoes, carrots, broccoli, and whole mushrooms.

Frankly, I was not impressed with the results. EXCEPT for the mushrooms. They came out rich flavored and great.  A lot of potential for various finishing techniques - or none. 

The potatoes were cut in a 1/4" dice and tasted good, but compared to what versatility you can get with potato preparations, no big deal. Carrots were done, but not impressive. Broccoli yuch. I am very willing to hear results from others that might give more interesting veggies.

Stu

Sounds like it's definitely worth experimenting with wild specimens, thanks!

[nathanm]

Nathan, I might try the experiment, but I'm at a loss to know how to serve or plate them, or what to serve them with.

With a "perfect" chicken egg, the yolk comes out like a squishy yellow ping-pong ball, while the white is more or less coagulated -- I think that depends on the time.

My understanding is that the proportion of yolk to white is much greater with an ostrich egg, so the results might be more like a squishy tennis ball.

But then what?  It's way too much for one person, no matter what kind of side dish goes with it.

I guess you could serve classic steak tartare for 6 to 10 people, with the yolk on top, and then divvy it up at the table??!  Any other ideas?

(This may be a classic case of a solution in search of a problem. -:)

One ostrich egg is about 18-24 chicken eggs, so yes, it is more than one person can eat....

[NY_Amateur]

That sounds like a challenge....

So just to chime in on this whole ostrich egg thing, the best part about a sous vide egg is the combination of yolk and white, I feel like if you sous vide the ostrich egg it will be so massive that you can have a bite of yolk or white but not both unless you portion it and serve it up like that . Also the presentation of the whole egg is a nice touch but would be hard to do with an ostrich.

[blackp]

Pork Cutlet Success!

With a relatively short lead time I decided to try some Pork Cutlets last night.
I bagged the cutlets individually with some sea salt and black pepper and cooked them @ 55C (131F) for 1 hour and 50 minutes.

After taking them from the bags they looked a little insipid.

I charred the top and sides with a blow-torch and plated them. I served them with some steamed new potatoes and carrots and a tapanade I'd made for some other purpose earlier in the week.

The texture was tender without being mushy and the flavour was definitely more delicate than this cut of meat usually is. Interestingly when cut no juices came out of the meat - even though it was not over done.

All in all a success.
One question for those with more experience:
How do I make the product hotter without cooking it? After searing and plating the overall effect was probably a little cold to my taste.

Cheers,

Peter.

[Robert Jueneman]

Try 20 seconds in the microwave, just to re-warm everything. Not everything has to be done sous vide, especially not pizza or chocolate cake!

How did you sear them with the torch? After warping my plastic cutting board, I now preheat a cast iron pan to the point where I can still touch it, but not for long, and then sear the steak or whatever in the pan. Then I'll transfer it to a warmed cutting board if I need to slice it, e.g., for a brisket.

Coincidentally, tonight I'm cooking some bacon-wrapped, rosemary flavored pork chops from Niman Ranch, via CostCo. They come four to a package, two of each in two compartments, in what appears to be a vacuum-packed "blister pack."

I'm hoping that the factory packaging is good enough to withstand submersion directly, rather than opening and repackaging them. I guess if the bag dissolves like gelatin, I'll know better next time!

Although I've gotten my wife used to 130F beef, she has this silly thing about pork, so I'm going to cook it at 140 for about an hour, and hope for the best.

I'm also going to try some buttered asparagus at 160F, based on some much older posts to this thread.

Edited by Robert Jueneman, 05 May 2009 - 08:27 PM.

[blackp]

How did you sear them with the torch? 

The benches in my kitchen are all stainless steel so I don't have much of a problem in that regard. I flamed the cutlets on the stainless steel plate in the photo. I guess if you had bench tops which would be damaged you could use a similar stainless plate and put it on top of your stove - unless of course you have one of those glass topped units - then you're out of luck.

Thanks for the microwave tip, I'll give it a shot next time,

cheers,

Peter.