283 replies to this topic

[Patrice]

Last year, the cheese course was the highlight of our meal. They didn't present any cheese cart but offered us a composed cheeses course.
-Époisse foccacia<
-Fourme ambert ice cream with pear ''salad''
-the last cheese was incredible, it was served in a type of glass. Standing in the glass were thin stips of mimolette. Served with the mimolette, also in the glass, were carrot tuile. The tuile were made in the same color and the same size of the mimolette stips. Each time you took a piece you weren't sure until you ate it if it was cheese or carrot tuile.

[cabrales]

I vaguely recall having had another Gagnaire dish with green papaya recently. I will investigate with respect to my notes.

The other Gagnaire dish I have sampled that included green papaya was: Dorade royale au Sel de Maldon; figue seche; noissette; citron confit et papaye rapee (Sea bream with Maldon salt, dried figs, hazelnut, confit lemons and grated papaya).

This dish was complex in appearance, with a dried leng th of leek extending past the boundaries of the plate. Why was it there? For no reason other than visual effect, which, in my mind, is a misguided reason for including an item in a dish. The sea bream filet was rectangular, with the figs layered in like a cake. On top was a single green bean -- again, why? For no reason except to include the bean. Further on top were shreds of green papaya that tasted very much like green apple. An average dish that was made sillier by the last touch being the addition of salt from a geren salt squeezer utilized by a dining room team member at the table.

[Bux]

Bux,

I hope I didn't give the impression that I expected our meals at Gagnaire to be perfect. I don't expect that at all. I have such respect for Gagnaire that it is a matter of dissappointment when there is a "miss."

I agree that when dining at Gagnaire, all preconceptions about food, ingredient mixing etc. must be put aside. What I find extraordinary about Gagnaire, is that his blending of flavors work ---- they taste good. Other than the guinea hen dish where the argon oil (thanks Cabrales for supplying the name) was overwhelming and the truffle dish where the truffles were the tasteless end of the summer ones, it was a wonderful meal with the highlight being the 5th course - the rouget. I also wonder if the fault on the Hen dish was a service, front of the house mistake. It was the server who added the argon oil table side. Who knows?

As I said in my initial post, I find Gagnaire a must "eat" for serious diners who are serious about food.

Bux, I am looking forward to your complete report and am so glad that it lived up to your expectations.

My expectations were that I might be astounded or disgusted. The only way the meal could have not lived up to my expectations was if I was just bored.

I don't think I misread your post. I think our impression of Gagnaire is similar. At anyrate this meal, although far less impressive than our first (life is like that as we get jaded) solidified my respect as well as my understanding that no dinner there would ever be a series of "sure things."

You say "his blending of flavors work ---- they taste good." I think that's a key thing, although I suppose it's also subjective. Gagnaire's was hardly the only creative food we had these past two weeks and I found myself wondering why I defend him, yet question the food of some of the other chefs. I can't discount the stars and the prejudice it brings, nor can I dismiss the service and setting all of which help seduce the diner. In the end however, I am more convinced it is the food that succeeds and "the blending" of flavors is key. Somehow, in many other creative restaurants in France and in most American "fusion" restaurants, I can taste the separate flavors distinctly and in a way that reminds me they are an unusual combination. It's a distraction and I'm aware of a contradiction in my mouth. Earlier, in fact soon after eating there, I said "One of the hardest preconceptions to give up is what a particular ingredient should taste like." This is another way of looking at that "blending." To an extent Gagnaire successfully destroys the flavor of an ingredient to come up with a new flavor. I think a lot of people find this offensive both intellectually and as a gut reaction. It certainly is an approach that is at odds with a line of other chefs I admire and it's at odds with my own usual preferences. So what? It doesn't keep me from both admiring and enjoying Gagnaire's work. If a chef is going to take me in this direction, he had better be damn good however, and Gagnaire is.

I do not recall argon oil, nor do I see mention of it in the menu. We had the tasting menu and they were kind enough to have a souvenir menu prepared for us to take with us. There was a thread once on asking for menus. I suppose people ask for menus for different reasons and it certainly seems as if restaurants make them available with different thoughts in mind. If I can find that thread, I'll pick it up again as the responses to our requests for a menu were met with vastly different responses and often with a useless piece of expensive paper that bore no relation to what we ate or the carte from which we ordered.

[Bux]

As a personal preference, I love the cheese cart and look forward to it at the end of the meal, especially with the last of the red wine. This is totally subjective

This is another subject worthy of it's own thread and maybe several separate threads. I also love the cheese cart and am disappointed when the meal leaves me so full that I can't enjoy a selection of cheese. I also don't care for the chef's preparations that include cheese as a substitute for the cheese tray, yet my curiosity is such that I will often order it in lieu of the cheese tray. Invariably, I am sorry I did. This was the subject of a thread somewhere on eGullet. Finally, there is the issue of red wine and cheese--one of the long standing traditions in French dining. I am finding more and more combinations of white wines and cheese that are far superior taken out of the context of a meal and also finding more and more people who share that opinion. Sancerre and chevre is almost an ideal pairing, yet Sancerre is not what I want to drink after a big red wine or even after a little Cote du Rhone or Beaujolais. There is something about the order of wines in a meal that is as important as any pairing with food. I think there are many foods that call for a white wine if eaten as an appetizer and a red if had as a main course, but I digress. Perhaps we'll have separate threads on some of these issues.

[Bux]

I'm on lizziee's side with regard to Gagnaire, but I've been quiet due to my tendency to embarass myself when the topic comes up!  

That's what we're here for.

I agree with wingding on the argan oil issue. While I've never experienced the abuses on the same level to which truffle oil has been used, I've never understood the big deal. I bought some in Paris a few years ago when the novelty was new, but frankly never put it to much use.

My last meal at PG did include the stuff, in a composed cheese course consisting of a tomme and arugula dressed in argan... the effect was by no means egregious; the spice of the greens overshadowed whatever subtle characteristic the oil offered. On the whole, however, I enjoyed the cheese course, though apparently lizziee did not. The other two plates were a chevre frais perched atop a honeyed craquante and a creamed bleu de Trizac with a cold cauliflower preparation and a thin leaf of an agar based gelée. I didn't notice, have they totally abandoned the cheese cart?

My impression was that they still offered a cheese tray or cart, but that the tasting menu featured a preparation by the chef or what the menu refers to as un fromage cuisiné.

lizziee, or anyone having extended experience with Gagnaire's cooking, I've been wondering if "sweetness" has always played a prominent role in his savory dishes? It is something I've noticed distinctly (in a good way), through the use of maple, honey, and dried fruits, among other items... though I've only eaten at the Paris restaurant, and only since '98. I've noticed this as an interesting, general trend over the last few years; where might it fit into Gagnaire's own evolution?

This is a far greater issue for me with chefs other than Gagnaire. Adria's caramels come to mind immediately and so does my meal at Heston Blumenthal's Fat Duck where I felt the sweetness increase perceptibly from course to course throughout the meal. I still shudder when I see fruit in a fish dish, yet I've been eating that combination for years at Daniel in NY in one form or another.

[Michael Laiskonis]

In the end however, I am more convinced it is the food that succeeds and "the blending" of flavors is key. Somehow, in many other creative restaurants in France and in most American "fusion" restaurants, I can taste the separate flavors distinctly and in a way that reminds me they are an unusual combination. It's a distraction and I'm aware of a contradiction in my mouth. Earlier, in fact soon after eating there, I said "One of the hardest preconceptions to give up is what a particular ingredient should taste like." This is another way of looking at that "blending." To an extent Gagnaire successfully destroys the flavor of an ingredient to come up with a new flavor. I think a lot of people find this offensive both intellectually and as a gut reaction. It certainly is an approach that is at odds with a line of other chefs I admire and it's at odds with my own usual preferences. So what? It doesn't keep me from both admiring and enjoying Gagnaire's work. If a chef is going to take me in this direction, he had better be damn good however, and Gagnaire is.

Good posts, Bux!

I pretty much agree with your assessment, and I, too, admit to a having conflicted thoughts, reconciling my admiration of Gagnaire's food with wanting a carrot to taste like a carrot. What wins me over is his ability to strip a particular foodstuff down to it's primary taste sensations, and then manage to reconstruct it into a coherent dish, no matter how strange the juxtaposition of component parts might appear. I think I know exactly what you are driving at, but I might take issue with Gagnaire's destroying the flavor of an ingredient. I can't necessarily think of a better word, but I do think there is a lot going on in the kitchen on a technical level that doesn't show up on the plate, which might explain how he can get away with what he does. As opposed to Adria, from what I can observe without having eaten at El Bulli, the technique is more in-your-face, where Gagnaire doesn't seem to be flaunting it as much.

I also agree with your thoughts on wine and cheese...

On the trend toward more sweetness in savory cooking, I did subtly address the issue in the Blumenthal Q&A, but as a question within a question, mostly pertaining to pastry. I've tasted examples both good and not so; I just find it an interesting phenomenon... The turbot dish I had at Gagnaire over the summer with fennel, apricot, and a Guiness-Jurançon sauce was, actually, rather amazing!

[Steve Plotnicki]

The problem with calling something a carrot when it doesn't taste like carrots is a big problem. If chefs were really brave, they would give their dishes names that have nothing to do with ingredients. There is no surprise as to how a carrot tastes. Go to your local green grocer and buy one.That's how it tastes. All you can fo is improve on it from there. But names of dishes are code that you are to expect a certain flavor. To tell you to expect it just to make a carrot taste like tuna fish doesn't help anyone and all it does is sensationalize cooking. If Gagnaire of chefs like him can invent new flavors that make us scream with delight, why call your dish by the name of the food, if indeed it doesn't taste derivitive of that food.

[Gavin Jones]

I'm surprised the restaurant Damian Hirst was involved with (Pharmacy) didn't adopt this approach.

[Bux]

I pretty much agree with your assessment, and I, too, admit to a having conflicted thoughts, reconciling my admiration of Gagnaire's food with wanting a carrot to taste like a carrot. What wins me over is his ability to strip a particular foodstuff down to it's primary taste sensations, and then manage to reconstruct it into a coherent dish, no matter how strange the juxtaposition of component parts might appear. I think I know exactly what you are driving at, but I might take issue with Gagnaire's  destroying the flavor of an ingredient. I can't necessarily think of a better word, but I do think there is a lot going on in the kitchen on a technical level that doesn't show up on the plate, which might explain how he can get away with what he does. As opposed to Adria,  from what I can observe without having eaten at El Bulli, the technique is more in-your-face, where Gagnaire doesn't seem to be flaunting it as much.

I also agree with your thoughts on wine and cheese...

On the trend toward more sweetness in savory cooking, I did subtly address the issue in the Blumenthal Q&A, but as a question within a question, mostly pertaining to pastry.  I've tasted examples both good and not so; I just find it an interesting phenomenon... The turbot dish I had at Gagnaire over the summer with fennel, apricot, and a Guiness-Jurançon sauce was, actually, rather amazing!

I'm happy to have you agree or take issue with what I said. I don't think there's any argument to be won or lost here. If I've offered any insight into Gagnaire's food or even if I've made anyone rethink his own reaction to the food, my post was valid. I think it's not only legitimate to have conflicted thoughts about the avant garde, but almost obligatory.

I used the sense of destruction quite intentionally, because of the generally negative conotation, but also because there's often a necessary element of destruction in creation. To use a food related phrase, "you can't make an omelet without breaking eggs." A more positive spin might call this trasformation. I needed to make a distinction between the cook who transforms the raw material into an easily and immediately recognizable dish and what Gagnaire does.

There's no question in my mind that Gaganire is far less in-your-face, in terms of technique regardless of what goes on in the kitchen. All that he sends out appears to be the result of cooking. In Adria's case, some things arrive at the table appearing to be science experiements. Of course I mean this in the good sense, although I can also attest to the fact that I have never enjoyed a simple roast chicken and green salad as much as the one my wife prepared on the day after we returned from France.

I am looking forward to the free time to sit down and read through the Blumenthal Q&A, but it won't be for a while. I am intrigued that you asked about sweetness. Although I never got the opportunity compose a question and get it online in time, that subject was on my mind. With both Adria and Blumenthal, as well as with many others, but not with Gagnaire, I've experienced a blatent over riding sweetness in savory dishes.

Turbot with fennel, apricot, and a Guiness-Jurançon sauce does not necessarily sound inviting, but having had Gagnaire's food, I can begin to imagine it with some understanding. Steve Plotnicki's post about naming dishes is interesting and the points are valid, yet I'm not sure the answer is in inventing new names. This could be the start of a new thread, but I think the trend towards including the ingredients started with Nouvelle Cuisine and the departure from classic garnishes which the enlightened and sophisticated diner might be expected to have memorized somewhere along the way of his culinary education. (I suspect that's hardly true, but at least there was a standard reference point.) As Gagnaire and other chefs are improvising more than they are codifying dishes the way Escoffier did, the dishes are more likely to be transient, I don't see the use of naming them. On the other hand, a list of ingredients is rather pointless too as they don't describe the dish.

[lizziee]

"In the end however, I am more convinced it is the food that succeeds and "the blending" of flavors is key. Somehow, in many other creative restaurants in France and in most American "fusion" restaurants, I can taste the separate flavors distinctly and in a way that reminds me they are an unusual combination. It's a distraction and I'm aware of a contradiction in my mouth." (Bux)

Gagnaire's strength comes from his blending of seemingly dissimilar ingredients and ending up with a unified whole. For example, the rouget and bacon with the carrot sauce was a wonderful dish. You knew you were eating rouget and bacon with a carrot sauce; Gagnaire didn't transform a carrot into something else. He did not in Steve's words call "something a carrot when it doesn't taste like carrots." He put ingredients together in such a way that the whole was better than its parts.

I have found that Gagnaire is one of the few chefs who is able to do this successfully. For example, at Bateau Ivre, there were so many ingredients in one dish, that you ended up with a mish mash.

I also feel that it is vital to treat a Gagnaire dish as a unified whole - to mix the ingredients and not treat it as a composed salad. This was absolutely vital in his foie gras dish. If you ate it as first one ingredient, then another, you would lose the effect of the dish as a whole.

[annchang]

It is such a great discussion and I learn and enjoy so much from it. My only dining at 3 star restaurant experience was devoted to Pierre Gagniare at Feb this year. I was absolutely wowed over by him. I ordered the tasting menu.

Before the first course, there was a series of mini appetizers. The very first mini appetizer already strikes me. It was a Cantonese carrot pickle with the brown bread infused by floral-scent olive oil. I do not know whether the Cantonese restaurant in USA serves this kind of vegetable pickle. However, in Taipei, if you order Cantonese roasted duck (not Beijing type), the restaurant usually serve a free plate of pickle vegetables that is usually consist of carrot, radish and cucumber. The vegetable is marinated in Chinese white vinegar and sugar. It is very sweet and sour and your taste bud can get bored after few bites. However, Gagniare transform this pickle into something heavenly. The taste of pickle is still staying the same; it is the combination of pickle, olive oil and brown bread that works so beautifully. It will never occurs to me in million years that I can put this ordinarily boring taste pickle with olive oil and bread. He chose exact right type of olive oil and bread, which do not offset pickle’s sweet flavor but reduce that sharpness the Chinese white vinegar brings.

Needless to say, I was surprised by the following courses one after one. He used a lot of oriental spices and materials but combine with French cuisine technique and flavor. I remember there is one course, which freshly sautéed squid with asparagus. However, once you cut the squid, there are few fine slices of soy sauce stewed pig ears hidden underneath. The squid is soft and juicy. The pig ear is crunchy (because the soft bone within it) and the asparagus is sweet. Again, it is the combination and the flavor blending beautifully. This dinner really opened my eyes. I had dinner at Astrance the night before and I prefer Gagniare’s cooking.


Well, I bet you all get tired of my horribable English writing, and I shall better leave you all here. I am so glad to join this group and I have learn so from from all of you. Thank you.

Ann

[robert brown]

Ann, that was a marvelous piece of culinary writing. It really got to the essence of the aspects of the meal you wished to describe. Welcome aboard and keep on chuggin'.

[schaem]

Yeah Ann, that was very good. Interesting about the pickles. I am more familiar with Korean food (and pickles) than Cantonese. I always thought Western food should develop a sort of "panchan" (variety of accompanying pickles and sides). Every restaurant seems to serve the amuse bouche as their "interesting giveaway", why not panchan?

[Bux]

Ann let me echo Robert Brown's sentiments. I found your post every much worth reading. It's always a joy to read about a meal that was immensely enjoyed. I can tell by the way you speak of a few dishes that this food made a great and positive impression on you. I was particularly struck by what you said about it never occurring to you in a million years to combine an ordinary material with certain other tastes and ingredients. Some chefs refine and codify a cuisine, but chefs such as Gagnaire excel in doing what we would never think to do. Of course there are chefs who do what no one else would think of doing and we understand why as soon as we taste it, but I agree that Gagnaire is a master at choosing these tastes and recognizing when it works.

I see you are new to eGullet. Let me welcome you and especially let me welcome you to the France board. We get a lot of posts on food and restaurants in France from British and American travelers, but I gather from the countries you mention and what you say, that you are not from the US. I also note that you mention Taipei, is that where you reside? I'm not being nosy and of course there's no need to answer that question, but I think it's interesting to us all how people of various cultures react to French cuisine and not just to three star food.

[magnolia]

Well, I bet you all get tired of my horribable English writing, and I shall better leave you all here.  I am so glad to join this group and I have learn so from from all of you. Thank you.

Not at all - great post, and welcome to the board.
Sounds like you have some special knowledge of Chinese cooking - and can really shed some light for us on how others, like Gagnaire, have adapted it. Is this a professional interest, or just personal? rd ! Hope we hear more from you soon.

[marcus]

annchang -- I have reread your post a number of times trying to understand why, although relatively brief, it is so excellent, as a number of others have already stated. To some extent, it is clear that you have a greater insight into Asian spicing than we Americans do. However, even more importantly, you are capable of dissecting a dish layer by layer, illustrating the chef's intentions, and almost showing rather than just stating how a dish succeeds. This is a rare skill. I would be very interested to read further discussion from you regarding your comparison of Gagnaire and Astrance.

[annchang]

Dear All
I am so flattered by all the warm responses here and in cooking board. It is very exciting to join e-gullet. It took me quite a while to overcome my psychological barrier to come out and post the message. And all of your friendly gesture really encourages me. I will study English harder from now on!

Dear Robert ¨C Thank you so much! I will try my best to write some more and net being stopped by the high frequency of checking dictionary.

Dear Schaem ¨C I like Korean pickles very much! There are so many varieties of Korean pickles, and this is the topic I am interested right now. There is the trend in eating Korean food in Taipei (the capital of Taiwan) now. Plenty of Korean restaurants come out and I am still trying to find the most authentic one. Have you ever tried the North Korean style pear and cabbage pickle?

Dear Bux ¨C I have been enjoying your article for long time. Actually, it was your article led me to the Astrance this year. Yes, I live in Taipei now. There are more and more people start to appreciate the foreign food, French cuisine is among the most popular one. Apart from the restaurant¡¯s setting is the better dating place than Chinese cuisine; people start to appreciate many aspects of French cuisine, whether it is earthy home cooking or haute couture cuisine. Obviously, there will always be the great following to Michelin Guide but I think there are increasing number of diners start to take all different guides as a reference and count on their own taste bud.

Dear Magnolia ¨C I am only the person who likes to eat and cook. I am far from professional standard. E-gullet is a great place for people like us. I have tried to show my excitement by dining in Gagniare with my colleagues and they just thought I was nuts by spending fortune on one dinner!

Dear Marcus ¨C Thank you for another homework! First of all, I want to say it is unfair to compare Astrance and Gagniare because of the different price. I was ordering 75 Euro dollar of tasting menu in Astrance. Frankly speaking, it is very good value of money with all the top quality material, beautiful cooking and a good level of creativity. The difference between Astrance and Gagniare again lies on the blending flavors. Astrance is also using quite a lot oriental and western spice. The chef manipulate the spices well, should I say, but did not bring it to the level as unexpected well. Also, many dishes compose two to three different ingredients. They taste well individually but I cannot see any relationship why they have to be put together. For instance, there was a dish is well-saut¨¦ed leek and fillet of sea bass. The leek itself is so sweet that it is like fruit rather that the boring leek we used to know. The fillet of sea bass was so tender and fresh. However, when you taste them together, it was OK. I do not see why the leek and sea bass has to go together. The only reason is leek was in season at that time and probably sea bass was very good in the market that day. If so, why not the chef focuses on the leek to make something out of it? However, I still think the chef got the potential; there was a dessert - the black chocolate pie with pepper sorbet. The black chocolate pie has its silky taste (I suspect the chef put some milk chocolate in because the pie do not have that strong bitter-sweet flavor)£¬and the icy cold and a bit taste bud stimulating white pepper sorbet provide the beautiful counter balance to the chocolate pie. Personally, I think the success for one single dish lies on all the ingredients are complement to each other and bring out the best flavor of each other. The responsibility of a cook is to delete the unnecessary ingredients, find the best percentage of each ingredient and the best cooking methods, which bring the flavors out. Gagniare teaches me another important lesson, there is never a boring ingredient or spice. Look at them and think again.

Ann

[Bux]

I am only the person who likes to eat and cook. I am far from professional standard. E-gullet is a great place for people like us. I have tried to show my excitement by dining in Gagniare with my colleagues and they just thought I was nuts by spending fortune on one dinner!

"They just thought I was nuts" sounds like the story of my life. One of the nice things about eGullet for those who do not have friends who are as food obsessed as we are, is finding those who share our interest. One thing that's obvious is that we enjoy your insight on Gagniare and l'Astrance. I hope we'll hear more from you.

[cabrales]

Recently, P Gagnaire instituted a "menu du marche" (market menu), available only during lunch, at approx. 85 euros. That's a good opportunity, on which I intend to capitalize shortly (despite not liking Gagnaire's cuisine).

[ajay]

Cabrales,

If you feel comfortable, please try to walk me through your desire to capitalize on this market menu. It seems to me that you've given M. Ganaire's cuisine several chances, and that you subjectively do not favor his approach as it is almost too cluttered and unfocused. Do you have any reason to believe a cheaper more market focused menu is likely to adress or ameliorate your underlying critique/problems with Gagnaire's cuisine.

I suppose a cheaper menu would be a potent inducement to someone who felt the food was comptently or even expertly prepared (in the context of thier subjective tastes), but that the price point was too high. However, I've always understood your critique of Gagnaire to be that the food doesn't meet your subjective preferences. Do you really expect your preferences or the cuisine to change?

[I should note for the record that based on only one meal at P. Gagnaire, I find the restaurant to fall within my subjective preferences--except for the desserts which can be borderline inedbile to competant.]

[cabrales]

ajay -- Thanks for accurately recalling my history with respect to Gagnaire's cuisine. I've sampled his cuisine on various occasions, including lunch and dinner, tasting menus or not, etc. I have not been subjectively satisfied with any meal he has provided.

However, I might still go there (not necessarily within the next quarter) (1) out of curiosity about recent developments, and (2) having a large lunch might be difficult before a meaningful dinner at a restaurant I prefer. By going to a restaurant where I could just taste a little bit of each course and where there would be a more "restrained" menu relative to the regular degustation, I could "save" capacity for dinner. It has become difficult of late for me to take in two significant meals a day.

Edited by cabrales, 06 December 2002 - 11:50 AM.

[marcus]

Ajay -- Fantastic! A real tour de force.

[nightscotsman]

When I dined at Pierre Gagnaire in May this year, the lunch menu was 85 euros. It included an amuse, six appetisers, a substantial main course, four desserts and three trays of mignardise. Althought the amuse was a little odd (wasn't sure how to eat it) the rest of the meal was fabulous. Did he raise his prices over the summer and is now reducing them to come closer to what they were previously?

[cabrales]

nightscotsman -- I didn't know he had such prices as of May 2002. Is it possible his prices were always this low for lunch prix fixe and I never knew?

[Steve Plotnicki]

Ajay,

If you feel comfortable, please try to walk me through your desire to ask Cabrales why she decided to capitalize on this market menu? It seems to me that you've read enough posts from Cabrales to know that even though she has given M. Gagnaire's cuisine several chances, and that she subjectively does not favor his approach as it is almost too cluttered and unfocused, she will use any excuse, no matter how little, to vist a three star restaurant. Do you have any reason to believe, that she wouldn't believe, that a cheaper more market focused menu wouldn't ameliorate her underlying critique/problems with Gagnaire's cuisine so she can have one more three star meal?

How could you not suppose that the slightest reason at all would be a potent inducement to someone who felt the food was comptently or even expertly prepared (in the context of their subjective tastes), and that a change in the price point would serve as encouragement. Though you haalways understood her critique of Gagnaire to be that the food doesn't meet her subjective preferences. Do you really expect any of that to matter when a three star meal is at stake?

[I should note for the record that based on two meals at P. Gagnaire, I find the restaurant to fall predominantly within my subjective preferences--except for the desserts which can be borderline inedbile to competant.]

Steve

[cabrales]

Steve P -- Well, Gagnaire is not the only game in town, as you know. For example, I have not visited Taillevent under Solliveres (when did he actually start, I wonder). So the question posed by ajay about Gagnaire, as opposed to another three-star, is still relevant.

If people must know, here is why I'm considering adding Gagnaire at the lunch level to my next trip (leaving aside subsequent trips): (1) I already have plans to revisit four of the other Parisian three-stars during this trip, (2) I probably dislike Gagnaire's cuisine more than I do Ducasse's version at Plaza Athenee, but Gagnaire's cuisine is still a bit more interesting than Ducasse's (also, I looked at the Ducasse website and the menu hasn't changed meaningfully from the last time I was there in 2Q 2002), and (3) I don't have anything against L'Ambroisie or Grand Vefour, but I don't have anything particularly driving me towards going to revisit them either, having visited them earlier this year as well.

[Miguel Gierbolini]

As for myself, wading through, I appreciate Cabrales info. I plan to return to Paris in the next few months (here is hoping for a Euro freefall against the dollar ) and take advantage of this opportunity to sample Gagnaire. Also, Lucas Carton which, as mentioned elsewhere on these boards has a 76 euro lunch special.

[ajay]

As much as I feel for you and want you to have a good trip, I should note that the strong dollar has resulted in a balance of payments crisis, and the last thing we need right now is the dollar getting stronger. We need people to purchase American goods so American people can have jobs and spend more money so that Gagnaire will challenge Ducasse here in New York (there now i'm on topic).

[actually, I just wanted to get past the 200 post hump ]

[Michael Laiskonis]

Gagnaire has offered the Menu du Marché since at least the summer of 1999, when I sampled it on my second visit to the restaurant. I do not recall if it was available when I first dined at PG in February 1998. Regrettably, I do not have a copy of said menu, nor are my notes readily accessible (maybe tomorrow), yet it followed much as nightscotsman described. Below is l'addition...

21/06/1999

1 MENU DU MARCHE 520,00
3 VERRE DE VIN BLANC 195,00
1 VERRE DE VIN ROUGE 70,00
1 FLUTE DE CHAMPAGNE BRUT 95,00
1 CAFE 35,00


NET A PAYER 915,00


I don't recall the exchange, but figuring a safe 6.5 francs to the dollar, it indeed comes out to $80, with the meal in total coming in under $150. A solid bargain, though the food may be "safer" than the selections from the carte and tasting menu. From what I understand, one can also dine from an even more limited menu at the 'bar', though I haven't heard about this in awhile...

Edited by mlpc, 11 December 2002 - 10:45 PM.

[Michael Laiskonis]

Just to add a comparison.... My two subsequent meals, both lunch... (yes, I save everything)...

April 2001

Le Menu Pierre Gagnaire (the standard tasting menu) 1100 francs/ meal total 1720 francs

Again allowing for a 6.5 f to 1$ exchange.... $170/$265

July 2002

Le Menu Pierre Gagnaire 195 euros/ meal total 270 euros


So the Marché can be a great alternative to the full blown experience. I should do a similar comparison between my four meals at Arpege. I'm guessing the prices there have doubled since 1998, and I think Passard has done away with the abbreviated lunch menu..