560 replies to this topic

[Zoe Francois]

So if I say - The loaf has good crumb, then all I'm saying is the loaf has good texture?

I just noticed Anna's excellent response while writing this post, so I'll just add the results of researching some of my bread books. In Jeffrey Hamelman's book, Bread, A Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes, "crumb" is defined simply as:

the inner portion of a loaf of bread.

To that definition, I say:

Peter Reinhardt, in The Bread Baker's Apprentice goes into some detail about "crumb" in a discussion of the fermentation (proofing) process:

French baguettes and other shapes of French bread are often judged by the quality of the holes, or webbing, also called the crumb. When making lean, crusty breads, it's important to retain as much of the carbon dioxide as possible after the primary fermentation through gentle handling. These small pockets of holes become the foundation for the large, irregular holes formed during proofing and during baking that are the hallmark of high-quality hearth breads.

So if you said a loaf has good crumb, it would mean it has the structure of holes you are looking for in the particular type of bread you've baked. In an earlier post about underproved (proofed?) bread, the holes were larger in the center of the slice but got squished together near the crust, an indication that the dough was underproofed (but I bet it still tasted good.)

Thank you Anna and Beanie! Great descriptions of crumb!

Zoe

[Zoe Francois]

Would it work to do the refrigerated rise for 20+ hours?  Could I put a loaf in the fridge one night and bake it the next?

We had pizza from the last our my first batch of under-hydrated dough.  The dough was 2 weeks old and the pizza crusts were even better than our first try at them last week.  I stretched them over a couple of bowls and was able to get them thinner than my last attempt.  I'll never eat frozen pizza again!!!

I plan to mix up a new batch or two tomorrow...  after I go hunting for some rye flour.  I'm hoping maybe Fresh Market will have it.  Much as I love Publix, they don't have rye flour. 

Pam

Hi Pam,

I ended up keeping my very old dough (stored for 13 days) in the loaf pan for about 26 hours. I fear it was over-proofed and the crumb was like a wet sponge, the kind you clean the kitchen sink with. Not at all to my liking.

I'm going to start the experiment again, because I think the dough that I was using was really heavy and wet to begin with. I'd made the dough with a cup of cooked brown rice and I think it is just a very dense bread to begin with. Although when I baked it with a shorter rise I loved the crumb and the taste.

So my first attempt at allowing the dough to rise for more than 14 hours was a bust, but I'm going back in to try it again. The difference between 20 and 26 hours may be the difference as well???

I'll let you know when I bake off the next loaf!

Thanks, Zoe

[Zoe Francois]

Hi, all.

Wanted to quickly post about my first loaf which just came out of the oven.  It's based on the Light Whole Wheat Bread recipe, with an extra cup of KA white whole wheat substitued for some of the AP flour, and an extra half-cup water added to balance the hydration.  I mixed this batch of dough Friday late afternoon.

But here's the interesting part I wanted to share with you all:  from the beginning of this thread, I've been waiting for someone to say they tried merging this technique with the No Knead Bread technique from the NY Times, to get that perfect crust without all the fuss of throwing water into the oven.

Well, today I tried it out, and it was a resounding success!

I preheated my pizza stone AND the top (only) of my baking cloche at 500 degrees before I started working with the dough.  I just rested the cloche on top of the pizza stone, which was on the rack near the bottom of the oven.

I formed a small boule following the directions (it was nominally a pound, but working with a slack dough the first time, so much dough ended up sticking everywhere but the loaf, I think it lost a fair bit).  I formed the dough on top of parchment paper, with cornmeal between the parchment paper and the metal pizza peal.  (Sorry, no photos of that part.)  Let it rise for 40 minutes -- it showed a little rise, but was very slack still.  Dusted with flour and slashed the top.

Then I opened the oven, carefully moved the cloche out of the way temporarily to a rack in the top oven, and slid the dough to the middle of the hot pizza stone.  Then I covered it with the hot cloche, closed the oven, turned the heat down to 450, set the timer for twenty minutes, and tried to distract myself as best I could.

Finally, after tweny minutes, I removed the cloche and beheld the most beautiful little boule with perfect oven spring and crust development!!!!  (Photos to follow as soon as I can figure out how to get them off my husband's cell phone.)

A quick check with a thermometer showed that the loaf needed more time in the oven, so I carefully removed the now-charred parchment paper and left the cloche off, and set the timer for another 10 minutes.

This time the internal temp was a perfect 200 degrees, so out came my little baby.  The crust was perfect, and when I put it on the rack to cool, I could immediately hear it singing to me!

If you don't have a cloche, I think you could adapt the Cook's Illustrated method of using a parchment paper sling to lower a shaped loaf into a pre-heated dutch oven to get the same result.

Of course, this only works with round-shaped, rustic loaves, or any other loaves that will fit under the cloche.  But those are the ones you want that crackly crust for, anyway.

Zoe, thanks so much for such a great book, and for your participation here on eGullet -- you've been a wonderful inspiration to us.  And my personal thanks to everyone who's posted on this thread and the No Knead thread; I've learned so much from you all.

- Laura

Hi Laura,

I'm so glad this method got you such great results. When the Lahey article first came out we were almost done writing our book. I of course immediately tried his method with our dough and realized it too would work beautifully.

For those of you who don't have a cloche, I've had really nice results baking it under a s/s bowl. The bowl traps the steam and you get a similar result!

...and I agree that this is a great discussion, I too have learned so much! Thanks for your feedback!!

Zoë

[Anna N]

Today's haul:



On the left is the Soft American-Style White Bread and on the right European Peasant Bread.

The dough for the Peasant bread was mixed on Feb 1 and I made just 1/2 the recipe. We had one loaf baked after only a few hours in the 'fridge and it was lovely so I am expecting even greater things from this one.

The most surprising though, is the Soft white bread. Hubby had commented that he didn't see why we bothered buying bread anymore and I had explained that he still liked some sandwiches on woolly store-bought bread! So today I decided to give this recipe a try. I mixed up a 1/2 recipe very early this morning (4 a.m.), left it to rise at room temp for a couple of hours and then immediately put it in a bread pan, left it for 40 mins and then baked it. I wasn't expecting much and wasn't about to blame Zoe if it didn't work out. But it did and amazingly so!

The recipe states that it will make three - 11/2lb loaves and suggests a bread pan with dimensions of 9x4x3. This struck me as odd so I did a search on loaf pans and found that the dimensions seem to be a mix of the two standard sizes 9x5 and 8x4!! (Is this a misprint Zoe?). The recipe states that it can be halved or doubled but halving it poses a problem if you intend to bake it in a pan! It will then make one 1 1/2 loaf and leave you with a rather small blob of dough. Undeterred I put all of the dough from the 1/2 recipe into my 9x5x2 1/2 pan and it was the perfect amount. As usual I converted the recipe to weights from volume so this may have been sheer luck that it fit so well.

We had leftover roast beef sandwiches on this bread for lunch today and it got thumbs up even without a long rest in the 'fridge. I am ever more impressed with the recipes in this book!!!!

[Pat W]

Anna N do you ever sleep???

Both breads are beautiful, but you've really inspired me to make the sandwich bread. By the way, I've also been confused about the loaf pan sizes.

A lovely round loaf of the light whole wheat is resting at this very moment. It's the second loaf of the batch, we though the first was even tastier than the basic recipe.

I made up a half recipe of the brioche dough a few days ago & baked one loaf. It was tasty but seemed kind of small. Since I don't have a brioche pan & am not sure how the finished loaf is supposed to look, I don't know if mine was OK. I'm thinking that I should have let it raise longer. Regrettably I didn't have time to take a photo.

I find myself on a bread baking treadmill because we can't bear to go back to the miserable stuff in the grocery store. Zoe's bread has definitely raised our quality of life.

pat

[Lapin d'Argent]

Today's haul:



Undeterred I put all of the dough from the 1/2 recipe into my 9x5x2 1/2 pan and it was the perfect amount. 

Those are beautiful, Anna!

Was your loaf pan nonstick? Any particular brand?

I only have the standard pyrex glass ones at the moment, so I guess I'm going to have to invest in some new ones. Although I wonder if using a parchment paper liner would do the trick?

Thanks.

- Laura

[Anna N]

Today's haul:



Undeterred I put all of the dough from the 1/2 recipe into my 9x5x2 1/2 pan and it was the perfect amount. 

Those are beautiful, Anna!

Was your loaf pan nonstick? Any particular brand?

I only have the standard pyrex glass ones at the moment, so I guess I'm going to have to invest in some new ones. Although I wonder if using a parchment paper liner would do the trick?

Thanks.

- Laura

Mine is an el cheapo non-stick from Baker's Secret. I would certainly give the Pyrex one a try with a parchment lining and I think you reduce the heat when you use glass?

[Anna N]

Anna N do you ever sleep???

Both breads are beautiful, but you've really inspired me to make the sandwich bread.  By the way, I've also been confused about the loaf pan sizes.

A lovely round loaf of the light whole wheat is resting at this very moment.  It's the second loaf of the batch, we though the first was even tastier than the basic recipe.

I made up a half recipe of the brioche dough a few days ago & baked one loaf.  It was tasty but seemed kind of small.  Since I don't have a brioche pan & am not sure how the finished loaf is supposed to look, I don't know if mine was OK.  I'm thinking that I should have let it raise longer.  Regrettably I didn't have time to take a photo. 

I find myself on a bread baking treadmill because we can't bear to go back to the miserable stuff in the grocery store.  Zoe's bread has definitely raised our quality of life.

pat

Yes, I do sleep, not well and not often! It's a habit I acquired when I had 3 little ones and had to study for my university degree and I have never been able to change it!

I am stuck trying to keep dough in a 'fridge that is already too small for my needs. I would love to be able to have a selection of doughs in there but am going to have to look at doing 1/2 recipes and finding more suitable containers!

[Zoe Francois]

Anna N do you ever sleep???

Both breads are beautiful, but you've really inspired me to make the sandwich bread.  By the way, I've also been confused about the loaf pan sizes.

A lovely round loaf of the light whole wheat is resting at this very moment.  It's the second loaf of the batch, we though the first was even tastier than the basic recipe.

I made up a half recipe of the brioche dough a few days ago & baked one loaf.  It was tasty but seemed kind of small.  Since I don't have a brioche pan & am not sure how the finished loaf is supposed to look, I don't know if mine was OK.  I'm thinking that I should have let it raise longer.  Regrettably I didn't have time to take a photo. 

I find myself on a bread baking treadmill because we can't bear to go back to the miserable stuff in the grocery store.  Zoe's bread has definitely raised our quality of life.

pat

Yes, I do sleep, not well and not often! It's a habit I acquired when I had 3 little ones and had to study for my university degree and I have never been able to change it!

I am stuck trying to keep dough in a 'fridge that is already too small for my needs. I would love to be able to have a selection of doughs in there but am going to have to look at doing 1/2 recipes and finding more suitable containers!

Hi Anna, your loaves do look wonderful! My son happened to be looking over my shoulder and asked me to make the white sandwhich loaf! I know what we'll be doing tonight!

I ended up getting a dorm fridge in the basement for all my buckets. They do have a way of taking over!

Thanks, Zoe

[Zoe Francois]

Today's haul:

Undeterred I put all of the dough from the 1/2 recipe into my 9x5x2 1/2 pan and it was the perfect amount. 

Those are beautiful, Anna!

Was your loaf pan nonstick? Any particular brand?

I only have the standard pyrex glass ones at the moment, so I guess I'm going to have to invest in some new ones. Although I wonder if using a parchment paper liner would do the trick?

Thanks.

- Laura

Hi Laura,

The pictures of your loaves are great. The color on your crust is gorgeous!!!

The parchment liner is a perfect way to go with your loaf pan. As for hte size of the loaf pans, it wasn't exactly a mistake, but it was a source of great argument between Jeff and myself! We have all different size pans and couldn't agree on the standard. Sorry for the confusion! Because we found that everyone has slightly different pan sizes it may leave some with a tiny extra "tete" for your loaf! You can also use that extra bit to start your next batch!

I always load my pan much fuller than we say in the book and then let it rise longer before baking. I just like a bigger loaf.

Zoe

[Zoe Francois]

Anna N do you ever sleep???

Both breads are beautiful, but you've really inspired me to make the sandwich bread.  By the way, I've also been confused about the loaf pan sizes.

A lovely round loaf of the light whole wheat is resting at this very moment.  It's the second loaf of the batch, we though the first was even tastier than the basic recipe.

I made up a half recipe of the brioche dough a few days ago & baked one loaf.  It was tasty but seemed kind of small.  Since I don't have a brioche pan & am not sure how the finished loaf is supposed to look, I don't know if mine was OK.  I'm thinking that I should have let it raise longer.  Regrettably I didn't have time to take a photo. 

I find myself on a bread baking treadmill because we can't bear to go back to the miserable stuff in the grocery store.  Zoe's bread has definitely raised our quality of life.

pat

Hi Pat, I bake my brioche in a loaf pan sometimes and it works really well. It should rise quite a bit and depending on the size of your loaf should sit out about 2 hours before baking. If you are working from the book, there is a shot of the brioche in the colored pictures in the center of the book.

I'm so glad you don't buy bread in the grocery anymore! That is very high praise indeed!!!

Thanks, Zoe

[Pat W]

Well, going on the theory, if you can't provide inspiration, you might as well provide comic relief...

Tonight was pizza night. It was supposed to have been last night, but we were way too tired.

Soooo, after warming the house with the ritual preheating of the stone, I liberally dusted the pizza peel with cornmeal. Then I pulled the last batch of light wheat dough out of the fridge, plopped it on the counter and rolled it out to a perfection of thinness. It was truly a thing of beauty. While happily singing along with Tom Petty, I spread a light layer of pizza sauce one it, sprinkled it lovingly with thinly sliced mushrooms, topped it with fresh mozzarella and stepped back to admire my exquisite creation.

It was at that moment, gasp of horror here, I realized that the dough was still on the counter. I had completely forgotten to move it to the peel before topping. Our kitchen is usually on the chilly side, but after having been warmed by a 550 degree oven for thirty minutes, was quite toasty.

There I was. It was the last batch of dough so I couldn't throw it out & pretend this had never happened. Moreover, even though it had been speedily topped, the magnificently thin dough was growing a little melty and we were starving. What to do, what to do.

Well, I found two new Manila file folders & attempted to slide them under the dough from two different directions. This actually came very close to working. Then I did my best to transfer the pizza from the Manila folders to the pizza peel. As I said, this came very close to working.

We did not starve. The mis-shapen, now un-thin pizza baked up very nicely. While it wasn't the finest pizza I've ever made, it was still better than anything we could have gotten locally or found in the frozen food aisle. Once again, the idiot-proof side of Zoe's dough is celebrated.

The moral of this sad story is: Never try to bake while listening to Tom Petty.

pat

[henri]

Hey all, my first post on eGullet :)

Found this thread last week and mixed up a batch on Friday evening. It took a bit more time than expected (I was holding my 6month old in one hand and she was trying to grab everything).

After looking around I decided to use the cake saver as our 'bucket', worked out fine.

I used the master recipe found in this thread with instant yeast and KA AP flour (and maybe 1/3cup more water - next time I'll add the water by weight and aim for a specific %)





My steak knife had a lot of trouble cutting the dough, but I managed to pull 17oz (pure luck!) and form them into a ball. Left it on the work bench for 90min and baked it for 30min.



Here is the result. We were happy with the taste, but could have left it in longer to get a thicker crust. I put a pan with boiling water on the bottom rack and sprayed the sides of the oven with some water as soon as I put the bread in the oven.





I think I should have let it rise then cut the slashes, right? I cut them right when I put it on the peel. Also the work bench is close to the big kitchen radiator, so I think I can get by with a shorter rise time.

Nice to know I can make a few more at short notice!


henri

[CaliPoutine]

I mixed up the Chris Kimball( Cook's Illustrated) inspired wheat loaf on Wednesday ( it might have been Friday).

I baked it off last night. I weighed it out and it was close to a 2lb loaf. I think I pulled it from the oven about 10 minutes too soon because the crumb seemed a little moist when I cut it. The temp of the bread was 195F, but I wanted to go to bed last night. I didnt realize it needed 1hour 40 min to rest and close to 40 min to bake.



I looked up the original recipe CI's wheat sandwich bread and based on that, I put the pan of water next to the unbaked loaf in the oven. It has a nice crust, but it shrunk a little overnight.


It made nice sandwiches for our lunch.



I love the flavor of the bread!! I also love that I can bake a fresh loaf for sandwiches every couple of days!!

[CaliPoutine]

Welcome to eg Henri!!

Gorgeous loaf of bread. Great crumb too!!

[Anna N]

. . .

I think I should have let it rise then cut the slashes, right? I cut them right when I put it on the peel. Also the work bench is close to the big kitchen radiator, so I think I can get by with a shorter rise time.

Nice to know I can make a few more at short notice!


henri

Welcome! Yes, usually the slashing is done just prior to the bread going into the oven. Nevertheless your loaf looks lovely.

[mhjoseph]

Real Jewish rye bread uses clear flour for the non-rye component (see Secrets of a Jewish Baker). For those that don't know, clear flour is what remains after the first extraction and still has a lot of the dark outer parts of the grain and has a high protein level. This is what makes the loaf firm.

I have some on hand and have been thinking about trying this method using it. Rye bread has been my culinary Mt. Everest and I haven't attempted it yet. One of the best Jewish rye bakeries in the world is down the street from me and I'm afraid that I not going to be able to meet my own expectations. From the pictures that I've seen posted though, I think that I may be able to come close.

Zoe, do you have any thoughts on using clear for the AP in the recipe.

Marc

Hi Marc,

Yes, the clear flour would work beautifully in the recipe. I haven't tried it in this particular rye dough (we tried to avoid special ingredients for the book), so I can't give you the %, but it should work. If you use it will you let me know what you think. I'll get some and try it as well.

It would also be good to use in the whole wheat breads.

Thanks! Zoe

I baked a loaf last night out the dough that I prepared on Thursday night. I made half of a recipe using clear flour from King Arthur in place of the AP flour and medium rye also from KA.

The results were totally amazing. I have local access to authentic, high quality Jewish rye bread so I have what to compare this to, and my loaf of is at least of equal quality which is really saying a lot since good rye bread is hard to come by now days. The only fault was that the crust is not as crisp as that from the bakery, probably due to fact that I don't have a commercial oven.

The photos came out so bad that I'm not going to post them.

It just doesn't feel right getting such good bread with so little effort.

Marc

[gfron1]

Just a note that this topic has been added the Pastry & Baking Index HERE.

[MelissaH]

Let's wait for others to try this and make sure it works under all circumstances and with all gloves!  I am happy but then I have cheap vinyl gloves that are not really designed for food handling!

I tried using latex gloves purchased at a pharmacy. They too worked beautifully for non-sticking the dough.

I am stuck trying to keep dough in a 'fridge that is already too small for my needs.  I would love to be able to have a selection of doughs in there but am going to have to look at doing 1/2 recipes and finding more suitable containers!

This time of year, I just keep the dough in our garage. It stays a pretty constant 40 to 45 degrees F there, and the dough rests nicely next to the lagering beer-in-progress.

MelissaH

[Anna N]

Let's wait for others to try this and make sure it works under all circumstances and with all gloves!  I am happy but then I have cheap vinyl gloves that are not really designed for food handling!

I tried using latex gloves purchased at a pharmacy. They too worked beautifully for non-sticking the dough.

I am stuck trying to keep dough in a 'fridge that is already too small for my needs.  I would love to be able to have a selection of doughs in there but am going to have to look at doing 1/2 recipes and finding more suitable containers!

This time of year, I just keep the dough in our garage. It stays a pretty constant 40 to 45 degrees F there, and the dough rests nicely next to the lagering beer-in-progress.

MelissaH

Glad the gloves worked for you. I think it's like a miracle for handling this wet dough.

We don't have a garage so that is not an option and we live in a very tiny stacked town house so that another 'fridge is not an option. I already have a beer fridge in addition to my "normal" one! But it holds............. beer!

At least once a day I stare into the small area of my basement that is the laundry room and hubby's work room and cannot see a spot to stick another 'fridge. I will work something out though - I have to have dough in readyness.

[Zoe Francois]

The moral of this sad story is:  Never try to bake while listening to Tom Petty.

pat

Hahaha! I will heed your advice! Thanks. It is the sign of a true chef that can turn that situation around and have something to eat at the end that you didn't have to call in!

Thanks, Zoë

[Zoe Francois]

Hey all, my first post on eGullet :)

Found this thread last week and mixed up a batch on Friday evening. It took a bit more time than expected (I was holding my 6month old in one hand and she was trying to grab everything).

After looking around I decided to use the cake saver as our 'bucket', worked out fine.

I used the master recipe found in this thread with instant yeast and KA AP flour (and maybe 1/3cup more water - next time I'll add the water by weight and aim for a specific %)


I think I should have let it rise then cut the slashes, right? I cut them right when I put it on the peel. Also the work bench is close to the big kitchen radiator, so I think I can get by with a shorter rise time.

Nice to know I can make a few more at short notice!


henri

Hi Henri,

Welcome. Thanks for trying the bread! It looks gorgeous. The crust is a great color. Next time, as Anna said, you'll want to try to slash right before baking.

Let me know what you think in a couple of days after the dough has some time to age. I'm assuming you baked this right after the initial rise. When you bake the bread from cold dough you may want to let it rise for the same amount of time as this one to get that lovely crumb! ...and hold the baby every time you mix up the dough, maybe that was the secret to your success!

Thanks, Zoe

Edited by Zoe Francois, 04 February 2008 - 10:37 AM.

[Zoe Francois]

I mixed up the Chris Kimball( Cook's Illustrated) inspired wheat loaf on Wednesday ( it might have been Friday).

I baked it off last night. I weighed it out and it was close to a 2lb loaf.  I think I pulled it from the oven about 10 minutes too soon because the crumb seemed a little moist when I cut it.  The temp of the bread was 195F, but I wanted to go to bed last night.  I didnt realize it needed 1hour 40 min to rest and close to 40 min to bake. 


I looked up the original recipe CI's wheat sandwich bread and based on that, I put the pan of water next to the unbaked loaf in the oven.    It has a nice crust, but it shrunk a little overnight.

It made nice sandwiches for our lunch. 


I love the flavor of the bread!!  I also love that I can bake a fresh loaf for sandwiches every couple of days!!

Hi, The sandwiches look great! I think it probably shrunk because it was slightly under baked and hadn't fully set! Because it was such a large loaf, it may have needed even more time in the oven. Having said that the crumb still looked really good.

Let me know how the next batch comes out.

Thanks, Zoe

[onehsancare]

This feels like one of those stupid kitchen questions you’re almost too embarrassed to ask, but . . .

I’ve ordered my book, but it’s not due to arrive for a few days, so I started a batch of the recipe at the beginning of this thread (1.5 T yeast, 1.5 T salt, 6.5 c. flour) to tide me over.

So far, I’ve made two SMALL boules. After the first one, I intended to cut off a bigger piece with my serrated knife, but ended up with about the same amount of dough. That would be okay, but I really man-handled it getting it out of the bowl, deflating it significantly.

Do you dump the entire batch onto the cutting board to cut off today’s loaf, or use the knife in the bowl? How do you keep the part you’re removing and the part that’s remaining from deflating?

[tino27]

This feels like one of those stupid kitchen questions you’re almost too embarrassed to ask, but . . .

I’ve ordered my book, but it’s not due to arrive for a few days, so I started a batch of the recipe at the beginning of this thread (1.5 T yeast, 1.5 T salt, 6.5 c. flour) to tide me over.

So far, I’ve made two SMALL boules.  After the first one, I intended to cut off a bigger piece with my serrated knife, but ended up with about the same amount of dough.  That would be okay, but I really man-handled it getting it out of the bowl, deflating it significantly.

Do you dump the entire batch onto the cutting board to cut off today’s loaf, or use the knife in the bowl?  How do you keep the part you’re removing and the part that’s remaining from deflating?

No matter how carefully you handle the dough, there will always be some deflation of the dough.

A tip to get the dough out of the container is to first spray the container with a stick-release spray (like Pam) before putting the finished dough in to rise. You could also use a paper towel and some canola oil to wipe the surface of the container as well. When you go to cut off a hunk of dough, gently pry out the entire dough using you fingers or a bowl scraper, slice off the amount you need, and return the rest to the bowl. The trick is not to pull on the dough as that will cause the deflation you experienced.

edited: for clarity

Edited by tino27, 04 February 2008 - 11:12 AM.

[Anna N]

. . .

So far, I’ve made two SMALL boules.  After the first one, I intended to cut off a bigger piece with my serrated knife, but ended up with about the same amount of dough.  That would be okay, but I really man-handled it getting it out of the bowl, deflating it significantly.

Do you dump the entire batch onto the cutting board to cut off today’s loaf, or use the knife in the bowl?  How do you keep the part you’re removing and the part that’s remaining from deflating?

Try some vinyl or latex gloves to handle the dough and try using a pair of scissors to cut off the amount you want. I have found this to be much easier than using a serrated knife and causes much less deflation. Keep trying - it will all work for you eventually!

[Zoe Francois]

I baked a loaf last night out the dough that I prepared on Thursday night. I made half of a recipe using clear flour from King Arthur in place of the AP flour and medium rye also from KA.

The results were totally amazing. I have local access to authentic, high quality Jewish rye bread so I have what to compare this to, and my loaf of is at least of equal quality which is really saying a lot since good rye bread is hard to come by now days. The only fault was that the crust is not as crisp as that from the bakery, probably due to fact that I don't have a commercial oven.

The photos came out so bad that I'm not going to post them.

It just doesn't feel right getting such good bread with so little effort.

Marc

Hi Marc,

This is so exciting! I can't wait to try it with the clear flour. Thanks!

Zoe

[Zoe Francois]

This feels like one of those stupid kitchen questions you’re almost too embarrassed to ask, but . . .

I’ve ordered my book, but it’s not due to arrive for a few days, so I started a batch of the recipe at the beginning of this thread (1.5 T yeast, 1.5 T salt, 6.5 c. flour) to tide me over.

So far, I’ve made two SMALL boules.  After the first one, I intended to cut off a bigger piece with my serrated knife, but ended up with about the same amount of dough.  That would be okay, but I really man-handled it getting it out of the bowl, deflating it significantly.

Do you dump the entire batch onto the cutting board to cut off today’s loaf, or use the knife in the bowl?  How do you keep the part you’re removing and the part that’s remaining from deflating?

Hi. Great question! It is true, there will be some deflating when you reach into the tub. The trick is to get it down to a minimum. Like Tino and Anna have suggested you will figure out the way that works best for you. I just sprinkle flour over the surface and stretch a piece of dough out to cut with a knife. I think the gloves, spraying the bucket and using scissors may work really well too.

Have you seen the videos that I have posted on my website? It may help to see it being done. I think the one we did for the Chicago Tribune is the clearest.

www.zoebakes.com

Thanks for trying the recipe. Zoe

[saluki]

Just received my copy of the book from Amazon today and picked up a couple of 25 cup Reynolds Casual square containers with a vent from Target.

A few questions please
If I want to use fresh Rosemary and put it into the initial mixture--Can it still be kept in the fridge for up to two weeks?

Also, if I use a baking Cloche do I still put water into a pan underneath?

Lastly, I ordered clear flour and medium rye from KA. If I use clear flour instead of AP to make rye bread how much water do you think I should use?

[MelissaH]

Here's a question, for those of you who bake on parchment: do you find that the bottom of your loaf winds up pale, compared to the part that was not in contact with the parchment? I'm using a pre-heated stone, and even when I pull the parchment out as soon as the loaf is set enough to do so, I still wind up with the bottom significantly paler than the rest of the crust.

Has anyone tried baking these breads on an oiled pizza screen, placed on the stone? I'm wondering if that would make the crust color more consistent, but at the same time reduce the amount of cornmeal rolling around my oven.

And what internal temperature am I shooting for, when the loaf is fully baked?

MelissaH