560 replies to this topic

[CaliPoutine]

I mixed up half a recipe of the rye. Half isnt very much at all.

Btw, do I cut down the yeast amounts if I'm using instant yeast? What would the measurement be for a full batch?

[Jmahl]

It's very clear that this is a very hot thread.

We are working on our 4th or 5th batch of dough and it is a shear joy.

This batch has 3/4 cup of whole wheat flour -- two lbs of flour total - 3 1/2 cups water and one Tbs. of honey added to basic recipe. Used quick rise yeast.

Let to raise in mold overnight. Should have slashed in the morning. (used sissors).

For steam heated pan on bottom shelf of oven and added one cup hot water when bread went into oven. Lots of steam. All the water had evaperated at about 15 minutes. Oven time 40 minutes at 450 degrees.




Here is the result.




and the crumb.



The crust and taste are really good.

Already mixed another batch with 2 Tbs. honey.

I calulated the cost per loaf at about 30 - 35 cents.

Great baking to all.
Jmahl

[Pat W]

Here is the result.




and the crumb.



The crust and taste are really good. 

Already mixed another batch with 2 Tbs. honey.

I calulated the cost per loaf at about 30 - 35 cents. 

Great baking to all.
Jmahl

That is beautiful!!!

Also loved the cost breakdown. So... we are not only having fun & munching delectable breadstuffs, but we are also saving a ton of money. Talk about a win-win situation!

pat

[cookman]

We can't get good ricotta cheese here, so I suspect this could have been even better.  A year or so ago there was a thread on Egullet on making your own ricotta cheese.  I haven't been able to find it.  If this rings a bell with anyone, could you please direct me to the  original thread?

Even with lousy ricotta cheese this was terrific.  And gosh,  tomorrow night it's pizza! 

Here is a recipe for making ricotta, from Nick Malgieri:
3 quarts whole milk
3 Tbsp red wine vinegar

Combine milk and vinegar in a saucepan, and place over low heat. Heat until the mixture reaches 175 degrees. Regulate heat carefully, so as not to exceed this temperature.

While the milk is heating, rinse a cheesecloth or cloth napkin and line a strainer with it. Place over a bowl.

When the ricotta curds become visible on the surface of the milk, remove them with a slotted spoon and transfer to the lined strainer. Allow to drain. (A firmer/drier ricotta can be achieved by allowing the curds to remain at 175 degrees about 5 minutes before draining.)

To make ricotta smooth before using, pulse in a food processor. Makes 1 lb.

Hope this helps!

[Pat W]

We can't get good ricotta cheese here, so I suspect this could have been even better.  A year or so ago there was a thread on Egullet on making your own ricotta cheese.  I haven't been able to find it.  If this rings a bell with anyone, could you please direct me to the  original thread?

Even with lousy ricotta cheese this was terrific.  And gosh,  tomorrow night it's pizza! 

Here is a recipe for making ricotta, from Nick Malgieri:
3 quarts whole milk
3 Tbsp red wine vinegar

Combine milk and vinegar in a saucepan, and place over low heat. Heat until the mixture reaches 175 degrees. Regulate heat carefully, so as not to exceed this temperature.

While the milk is heating, rinse a cheesecloth or cloth napkin and line a strainer with it. Place over a bowl.

When the ricotta curds become visible on the surface of the milk, remove them with a slotted spoon and transfer to the lined strainer. Allow to drain. (A firmer/drier ricotta can be achieved by allowing the curds to remain at 175 degrees about 5 minutes before draining.)

To make ricotta smooth before using, pulse in a food processor. Makes 1 lb.

Hope this helps!

Wow! Thank you. Have you tried doing this? The process doesn't seem quite as mysterious as I had imagined.

pat

Edited by Pat W, 26 January 2008 - 10:32 PM.

[cookman]

Pat,

Yes, I've used this recipe with success. The trick is to heat slowly, so as not to overshoot the 175 degree mark. I then let the curds sit at 175 for 5 minutes before draining. The result was excellent.

[Zoe Francois]

I mixed up half a recipe of the rye.  Half isnt very much at all.

Btw, do I cut down the yeast amounts if I'm using instant yeast?  What would the measurement be for a full batch?

Hi. We found no difference when we used instant yeast vs. regular in the recipe. Once you ae storing the dough for this long it just doesn't seem to matter!

So use the same amount for either.

Let me know how it comes out, I love this bread!

Zoe

[Zoe Francois]

It's very clear that this is a very hot thread. 

We are working on our 4th or 5th batch of dough and it is a shear joy.

This batch has 3/4 cup of whole wheat flour -- two lbs of flour total - 3 1/2 cups water and one Tbs. of honey added to basic recipe. Used quick rise yeast.

Let to raise in mold overnight.  Should have slashed in the morning. (used sissors).

For steam heated pan on bottom shelf of oven and added one cup hot water when bread went into oven.  Lots of steam.  All the water had evaperated at about 15 minutes. Oven time 40 minutes at 450 degrees.




Here is the result.




and the crumb.



The crust and taste are really good. 

Already mixed another batch with 2 Tbs. honey.

I calulated the cost per loaf at about 30 - 35 cents. 

Great baking to all.
Jmahl

Hi. This bread looks fantastic!!! I'm really happy to see that the overnight rise in the refrigerator works as well with loaf breads. In fact, it seems like you probably get an even better rise. This is fascinating!!!! How full was the pan when you first put the dough in?

Thanks, Zoe F

[Zoe Francois]

Here is a recipe for making ricotta, from Nick Malgieri:
3 quarts whole milk
3 Tbsp red wine vinegar

Combine milk and vinegar in a saucepan, and place over low heat. Heat until the mixture reaches 175 degrees. Regulate heat carefully, so as not to exceed this temperature.

While the milk is heating, rinse a cheesecloth or cloth napkin and line a strainer with it. Place over a bowl.

When the ricotta curds become visible on the surface of the milk, remove them with a slotted spoon and transfer to the lined strainer. Allow to drain. (A firmer/drier ricotta can be achieved by allowing the curds to remain at 175 degrees about 5 minutes before draining.) 

To make ricotta smooth before using, pulse in a food processor. Makes 1 lb.

Hope this helps!

Hey thanks! I'll try this out. It really does seem too simple. Why haven't I been making this for years???

Zoe F

[Jmahl]

It's very clear that this is a very hot thread. 

We are working on our 4th or 5th batch of dough and it is a shear joy.

This batch has 3/4 cup of whole wheat flour -- two lbs of flour total - 3 1/2 cups water and one Tbs. of honey added to basic recipe. Used quick rise yeast.

Let to raise in mold overnight.  Should have slashed in the morning. (used sissors).

For steam heated pan on bottom shelf of oven and added one cup hot water when bread went into oven.  Lots of steam.  All the water had evaperated at about 15 minutes. Oven time 40 minutes at 450 degrees.




Here is the result.




and the crumb.



The crust and taste are really good. 

Already mixed another batch with 2 Tbs. honey.

I calulated the cost per loaf at about 30 - 35 cents. 

Great baking to all.
Jmahl

Hi. This bread looks fantastic!!! I'm really happy to see that the overnight rise in the refrigerator works as well with loaf breads. In fact, it seems like you probably get an even better rise. This is fascinating!!!! How full was the pan when you first put the dough in?

Thanks, Zoe F

When originally fulled it was only slighty lower than it appears in the first photo. I also did not mention that between batches I am not washing out the container but incorporating the residue into the slurry. Trying for a sour dough effect. The aroma of the day-old loaf is wonderful.

Thanks for the comments.
Jmahl

[devlin]

To add a couple of notes about ricotta, which I make frequently.... Many recipes call for about a cup of heavy cream as well (in addition to the milk), which is how I always make it. You may also substitute some or all of the milk with buttermilk for a way tangier ricotta.

My ricotta of choice, though, is made with goat milk and heavy cream. Made exactly as noted above. You might want to stir in a little bit of salt once it's finished. It's so good I have to resist just eating it up bit by bit once it's chilled.

[Kerry Beal]

Chocolate bread to which I added some dried montmorency cherries.

The cherries were very soft right out of the bag so I didn't bother to soak them. The bread was much more tender than the chocolate cherry bread I remember getting at the Grandville Island market. All in all a success.

[tsquare]

Perfect Valentine's Day treat.

[cookman]

To add a couple of notes about ricotta, which I make frequently.... Many recipes call for about a cup of heavy cream as well (in addition to the milk), which is how I always make it.

In Malgieri's book, he confirms what you suggest, saying that you can sub out 1 cup of the milk for an equal amount of heavy cream.

[cookman]

Chocolate bread to which I added some dried montmorency cherries. 

The cherries were very soft right out of the bag so I didn't bother to soak them.  The bread was much more tender than the chocolate cherry bread I remember getting at the Grandville Island market.  All in all a success.

Kerry,

When I made this bread, the dough didn't seem nearly as wet as the doughs from the earlier part of the book. The dough was sticky, but not particularly slack, and its surface in the bowl seemed somewhat dry. When I went to form it into a boule shape, the surface of the bread seemed to want to crack. I still felt the results were excellent (a fact confirmed by the fact that my kids ate most of it before I could get much), but I'm wondering if I should have increased the dough's hydration a bit. Did your dough behave similarly to mine?

[Pat W]

Chocolate bread to which I added some dried montmorency cherries. 

The cherries were very soft right out of the bag so I didn't bother to soak them.  The bread was much more tender than the chocolate cherry bread I remember getting at the Grandville Island market.  All in all a success.

Talk about a pin-up photo! That looks incredible.

OK, this is embarrassing to admit, especially since I am a card carrying chocoholic, but I don't think I had ever heard of chocolate bread until this thread. Do you slice it and eat it like pound cake? I didn't think I was interested until the siren song of that photo.


pat

[Kerry Beal]

Chocolate bread to which I added some dried montmorency cherries. 

The cherries were very soft right out of the bag so I didn't bother to soak them.  The bread was much more tender than the chocolate cherry bread I remember getting at the Grandville Island market.  All in all a success.

Talk about a pin-up photo! That looks incredible.

OK, this is embarrassing to admit, especially since I am a card carrying chocoholic, but I don't think I had ever heard of chocolate bread until this thread. Do you slice it and eat it like pound cake? I didn't think I was interested until the siren song of that photo.


pat

More like regular bread. I just put a bit of butter on it.

[Zoe Francois]

To add a couple of notes about ricotta, which I make frequently.... Many recipes call for about a cup of heavy cream as well (in addition to the milk), which is how I always make it. You may also substitute some or all of the milk with buttermilk for a way tangier ricotta.

My ricotta of choice, though, is made with goat milk and heavy cream. Made exactly as noted above. You might want to stir in a little bit of salt once it's finished. It's so good I have to resist just eating it up bit by bit once it's chilled.

Hi. Great idea. I have to say that we made the mistake of testing the calzone once with low fat ricotta and the texture was dismal. The flavor was fine but it was rubbery. I will try it with goat's milk and heavy cream. This sounds like something really worth while!

Thanks, Zoë

[Zoe Francois]

Chocolate bread to which I added some dried montmorency cherries. 

The cherries were very soft right out of the bag so I didn't bother to soak them.  The bread was much more tender than the chocolate cherry bread I remember getting at the Grandville Island market.  All in all a success.

Kerry,

That looks great! Thanks for the picture.

Zoe

[Zoe Francois]

Chocolate bread to which I added some dried montmorency cherries. 

The cherries were very soft right out of the bag so I didn't bother to soak them.  The bread was much more tender than the chocolate cherry bread I remember getting at the Grandville Island market.  All in all a success.

Talk about a pin-up photo! That looks incredible.

OK, this is embarrassing to admit, especially since I am a card carrying chocoholic, but I don't think I had ever heard of chocolate bread until this thread. Do you slice it and eat it like pound cake? I didn't think I was interested until the siren song of that photo.


pat

More like regular bread. I just put a bit of butter on it.

Hi Pat,

This bread has a very intense chocolate flavor without being all that sweet. In fact you can make it with really bitter chocolate and it isn't sweet at all. If you want it to be more dessert like, than use a semisweet chocolate. I like it bitter myself, but that is up to you!

Zoe

[jcarroll42]

Hi All,


Really enjoying the thread. I've gotten a nice sourdough starter going recently, which I've been using with more traditional methods. 18 month old twins are, however, really ruining the 'spend all evening in the kitchen' thing. So I'm wondering if anyone has tried omitting the commercial yeast in the 5-minute method and replacing it with a (firm) sourdough starter?

I'm thinking it wouldn't be hard, just dissolve a portion of refreshed starter in the water used, but has anyone tried this? Rough measurements? Would it add appreciable flavor given the short rising times? How would it effect rising times?



Thanks
jeff

[Sentiamo]

Cali....THANK YOU for enlightening me about this book and this bread! I have ordered it and will have to be veeeeeeeeeery patient as it can take up to 8 weeks to reach the bottom of the world.

Zoe, I will have 1/2 of New Zealand kitchens with buckets of your dough in their fridges, in no time.
Your book up for reprint yet??

[Zoe Francois]

Hi All,


Really enjoying the thread.  I've gotten a nice sourdough starter going recently, which I've been using with more traditional methods.  18 month old twins are, however, really ruining the 'spend all evening in the kitchen' thing.  So I'm wondering if anyone has tried omitting the commercial yeast in the 5-minute method and replacing it with a (firm) sourdough starter? 

I'm thinking it wouldn't be hard, just dissolve a portion of refreshed starter in the water used, but has anyone tried this?  Rough measurements?  Would it add appreciable flavor given the short rising times?  How would it effect rising times? 



Thanks
jeff

Hi Jeff,

We have done the breat with great success using a natural levain. We were using a cup of starter per batch of the master in place of the yeast. It works really well, but you have to let it rise for hours both for the intitial rise and when it is resting on the peel. We suggested 6-12 hours for the initial rise and about 2 hours rest before going in the oven!

Let me know how it goes.

Zoe

[Zoe Francois]

Cali....THANK YOU for enlightening me about this book and this bread! I have ordered it and will have to be veeeeeeeeeery patient as it can take up to 8 weeks to reach the bottom of the world.

Zoe, I will have 1/2 of New Zealand kitchens with buckets of your dough in their fridges, in no time.
Your book up for reprint yet?? 

Hi Sentiamo,

We are in our 4th printing of the book and I hope they print more because it would seem that Amazon has run out again!!! Sigh. I hope you don't have to wait too long.

I can't wait to hear about your experience with the recipe.

What kind of flour are you using? Do you know the protein content? I've been asked about the differences in flour around the world and I have no idea what flours are available in New Zealand???

Thanks, Zoe

[Kerry Beal]

Chocolate bread to which I added some dried montmorency cherries. 

The cherries were very soft right out of the bag so I didn't bother to soak them.  The bread was much more tender than the chocolate cherry bread I remember getting at the Grandville Island market.  All in all a success.

Kerry,

When I made this bread, the dough didn't seem nearly as wet as the doughs from the earlier part of the book. The dough was sticky, but not particularly slack, and its surface in the bowl seemed somewhat dry. When I went to form it into a boule shape, the surface of the bread seemed to want to crack. I still felt the results were excellent (a fact confirmed by the fact that my kids ate most of it before I could get much), but I'm wondering if I should have increased the dough's hydration a bit. Did your dough behave similarly to mine?

Sorry, just noticed your question while reading back through the thread (wanted some more pizza information). I think my dough reacted pretty much like yours, and I'd added extra water in error (ie I halved the recipe and everyone knows that half of 1 3/4 cups is 1 cup!) It was a sticky dough, but very easy to handle and the surface did appear a bit dry.

[Kerry Beal]

My second loaf from the master recipe was still too dense, definitely not enough hydration. So I added a few tablespoons of water to the remaining dough and it was lovely and bubbly when I pulled it out to make pizza this evening.

I actually weighed a cup of flour using the cup measure I keep in the flour canister and compared it to another cup measure - and I got a 10 gram difference. Next batch I'll follow the directions to start with 2 pounds of flour by weight.

My dad was over for dinner, he's a baker and was very excited about the artisan bread. He took the book home with him. He is getting rather old and frail and I ask him to call when he gets home so I know he has made it safely back to the house. Well 30 minutes later no call, when I called he apologized, said he'd opened the book as he came though the door and was so engrossed he'd forgotten to call. A couple of days from now I suspect he'll be over with his first loaves.


I took Anna's advice and stretched the pizza dough over a bowl, let gravity do the stretching for me.

[CaliPoutine]

My second loaf from the master recipe was still too dense, definitely not enough hydration.  So I added a few tablespoons of water to the remaining dough and it was lovely and bubbly when I pulled it out to make pizza this evening. 

I actually weighed a cup of flour using the cup measure I keep in the flour canister and compared it to another cup measure - and I got a 10 gram difference.  Next batch I'll follow the directions to start with 2 pounds of flour by weight.

My dad was over for dinner, he's a baker and was very excited about the artisan bread.  He took the book home with him.  He is getting rather old and frail and I ask him to call when he gets home so I know he has made it safely back to the house.  Well 30 minutes later no call, when I called he apologized, said he'd opened the book as he came though the door and was so engrossed he'd forgotten to call.  A couple of days from now I suspect he'll be over with his first loaves. 


I took Anna's advice and stretched the pizza dough over a bowl, let gravity do the stretching for me.

Yummy!! How did it taste?

[Zoe Francois]

My second loaf from the master recipe was still too dense, definitely not enough hydration.  So I added a few tablespoons of water to the remaining dough and it was lovely and bubbly when I pulled it out to make pizza this evening. 

I actually weighed a cup of flour using the cup measure I keep in the flour canister and compared it to another cup measure - and I got a 10 gram difference.  Next batch I'll follow the directions to start with 2 pounds of flour by weight.

My dad was over for dinner, he's a baker and was very excited about the artisan bread.  He took the book home with him.  He is getting rather old and frail and I ask him to call when he gets home so I know he has made it safely back to the house.  Well 30 minutes later no call, when I called he apologized, said he'd opened the book as he came though the door and was so engrossed he'd forgotten to call.  A couple of days from now I suspect he'll be over with his first loaves. 


I took Anna's advice and stretched the pizza dough over a bowl, let gravity do the stretching for me.

Hi Kerry,

I can't wait to hear about your dad's experience with the bread! Thank you for sharing it with him.

Your pizza looks great and I'll have to try the bowl trick. Do you load it up with flour to keep it from sticking?

I'm glad you tried adding more water to the batch, instead of baking it and not caring for the result! This dough is very forgiving so feel free to play with it, just let it rise when you are done!

Zoe

[Kerry Beal]

Yummy!!  How did it taste?

It tasted great. The crunchy edges were the best part. Sent the leftover pieces from Dad's and hubbies pizza's home with dad. Ate my own leftovers about 20 minutes ago. Yummy cold too.

Hi Kerry,

I can't wait to hear about your dad's experience with the bread! Thank you for sharing it with him.

Your pizza looks great and I'll have to try the bowl trick. Do you load it up with flour to keep it from sticking?

I'm glad you tried adding more water to the batch, instead of baking it and not caring for the result! This dough is very forgiving so feel free to play with it, just let it rise when you are done!

Zoe

I sprinkled the bowl with flour, then the dough with more flour, and kept topping it up as required. It did stick a bit to the bowl (which helped with the stretch actually) but dropped right off when I turned the bowl over.

When I added the water to the dough, I just put it straight back in the fridge and it still came out fine. It was about 3 days after I added the water before I looked at it again.

[CaliPoutine]

Here is the rye that I started on Saturday. I baked off the first loaf today. Omg, it smells so good. We're going to have tuna sandwiches for lunch.

Is it normal for the dough to really spread out while its resting on the counter?

Btw, I skipped the cornmeal and baked it on the parchment.