560 replies to this topic

[zoe b]

Well, this is fun! I'm just mixing my first batch up--

I, of course came home from the supermarket today without unbleached flour--the main reason I went--and pouted for awhile, but I decided to try it with half unbleached and half bread flour--I looked at Anna's pics to see how wet it should be and its having its first rest now.

And welcome, Zoe--from one Zoe to another--it's great to have you here helping us all out!

Zoe

[Zoe Francois]

Wow, that looks fantastic. I think I'm going to take it a step further when I do this tonight and proof the loaf in a banneton if it's not impossibly wet.

Marc
. . . .

Funny you should say that as it's exactly the last thought I remember before I fell asleep last night!

Good luck with the banneton, I've had mixed success with it but in general I find the dough a little too wet to make a lasting impression on the bread. But, I've learned not to discourage people from trying things with this dough, they often make discoveries I wouldn't have!

Let me know how it goes!

Zoe

[Zoe Francois]

Well, this is fun!  I'm just mixing my first batch up--

I, of course came home from the supermarket today without unbleached flour--the main reason I went--and pouted for awhile, but I decided to try  it with half unbleached and half bread flour--I looked at Anna's pics to see how wet it should be and its having its first rest now.

And welcome, Zoe--from one Zoe to another--it's great to have you here helping us all out!

Zoe

Hi Zoe,

Thanks for trying the bread. I know it is hard to go back to AP when you're used to the finer things in life. Do tell how it goes! If you follow Anna's lead you should be just fine!

Thanks, Zoe F

[Maison Rustique]

Well despite my hips and thighs saying, "NO MORE BREAD!" I found this thread/concept so fascinating that I just ordered a copy of the book.

For those having trouble finding it, I ordered it from Barnes & Noble (I had a 25% off coupon.) with free expedited shipping for a total of $17.99 and should have it by Monday!

[Zoe Francois]

Well despite my hips and thighs saying, "NO MORE BREAD!" I found this thread/concept so fascinating that I just ordered a copy of the book.

For those having trouble finding it, I ordered it from Barnes & Noble (I had a 25% off coupon.) with free expedited shipping for a total of $17.99 and should have it by Monday! 

Hi Deb,

People have suggested that we include a gym membership with the book! I say, just make small loaves.

I look forward to your feedback!

Zoe F

[cookman]

I just wanted to report on another recipe in Zoe's book, the one for Chocolate Bread. I mixed up a batch of it 4 days ago, baked the first loaf off after 24 hours in the fridge, and the other loaf today. The only change I made was to add one cup of dried sour cherries to the ingredients. The bread is great! It reminds me of the similar bread I used to buy from Zingermann's when I lived in Ann Arbor, a bread that now cost $12/loaf!

Unfortunately, I couldn't wait to try it, so I forgot to take a picture to post. The first bread was excellent, but the loaf made after 4 days in the fridge was even better, with a more complex, slightly tangy taste. My suggestions for the bread are: 1) don't cut up the chocolate chunks too small, as it's even better when you get a good-sized piece of chocolate with a bite of the bread; and 2) if you are going to add dried sour cherries, use 2 cups for the whole recipe.

Zoe, I've got a question for you about the cherry addition. I'm guessing they suck up some of the liquid from the recipe, thereby reduce the overall hydration. I was thinking I should probably add more water to the dough at the beginning. Any idea how much extra?

[CaliPoutine]

It reminds me of the similar bread I used to buy from Zingermann's when I lived in Ann Arbor, a bread that now cost $12/loaf!

On the website, its 13.00. The cranberry pecan is 14.00. IMO, that is just criminal to charge that much for bread.

Last time I was there, they told me the price of flour is going to drastically increase.

Has anyone seen evidence of that?

[Zoe Francois]

Zoe, I've got a question for you about the cherry addition. I'm guessing they suck up some of the liquid from the recipe, thereby reduce the overall hydration. I was thinking I should probably add more water to the dough at the beginning. Any idea how much extra?

Hi. I'm so glad we can start talking about the sweet breads. I'm a pastry chef by training and so the desserts in the book were my real passion! Try the brioche. For those of you who have made brioche before this method is quite different!

Perhaps you could try hydrating the cherries before adding them to the dough. Soak them in some port or just water to plump them. This, of course, will take some of the chewiness away.

If you want to add water to the dough instead, then I would just start with a few extra tablespoons. I don't think the dried fruit will absorb too much of the dough's moisture.

Thanks, the bread sounds great! I'd love to see a picture if you bake another batch!

Zoe F

[onrushpam]

Made the pizza tonight. Awesome!!!

I made three little pies (sort of oddly shaped). Baked them on parchment on top of pizza stones at 550F with convection on. They took about 15 minutes.

I don't think I let the stones get hot enough (it was late and I was rushing). Next time, I'll wait a bit longer before putting the pies in.

They were by far the best pizzas I've ever made. I love crisp crust and these were nearly perfect!

Pam

[Beanie]

It reminds me of the similar bread I used to buy from Zingermann's when I lived in Ann Arbor, a bread that now cost $12/loaf!

On the website, its 13.00. The cranberry pecan is 14.00. IMO, that is just criminal to charge that much for bread.

Last time I was there, they told me the price of flour is going to drastically increase.

Has anyone seen evidence of that?

The price of flour has gone up drastically in the last year and is continuing to do so. I just received a weekly report from one of my suppliers showing price changes. Several varieties of flour increased by 4% and King Arthur Organic Artisan flour went up a whopping 49% due to shortages. These are increases on the wholesale level. I'm not making excuses for Zingermann's $14 loaf, but the cost of all ingredients is increasing.

[Pat W]

I had a very long day today. Finally made it home & found an Amazon box on the front porch. It was a happy moment.

First of all, I have to say to anyone who is reading this thread & hasn't yet bought the book... stop whatever you are doing and buy it!

Zoe, please tell your co-author that I enjoyed both the preface & introduction. (What can I say.... I was a history major, I always have to to read prefaces & introductions).

OK, I've made it to page 74. This is a very readable, enjoyable, not to mention inspiring, book. Regrettably, I must go to bed now, but I can't wait to try some of this stuff.

In short.... if you don't own this book, you truly must. (I have no relation to the author, co-author, their children, their dogs, or their extended families.)

I apologize if this isn't lucid. It really was a difficult day.

pat

[mhjoseph]

Wow, that looks fantastic. I think I'm going to take it a step further when I do this tonight and proof the loaf in a banneton if it's not impossibly wet.

Marc
. . . .

Funny you should say that as it's exactly the last thought I remember before I fell asleep last night!

Good luck with the banneton, I've had mixed success with it but in general I find the dough a little too wet to make a lasting impression on the bread. But, I've learned not to discourage people from trying things with this dough, they often make discoveries I wouldn't have!

Let me know how it goes!

Zoe

Well the experiment was a success. I shaped the loaves and put them in the banneton last night and refrigerated them until this morning. I baked directly out of the refrigerator and they look spectacular, except one loaf got a little misshapen. I'll see how they taste tonight but I have high expectations.

Sorry about the poor photography but you'll get the idea:



Marc

[Zoe Francois]

I had a very  long day today.  Finally made it home & found an Amazon box on the front porch.  It was a happy moment.

First of all, I have to say to anyone who is reading this thread & hasn't yet bought the book...  stop whatever you are doing and buy it!

Zoe, please tell your co-author that I enjoyed both the preface & introduction.  (What can I say.... I was a history major, I always have to to read prefaces & introductions).

OK, I've made it to page 74.  This is a very readable, enjoyable, not to mention inspiring,  book.  Regrettably, I must go to bed now, but I can't wait to try some of this stuff.

In short....  if you don't own this book, you truly must.  (I have no relation to the author, co-author, their children, their dogs, or their extended families.)

I apologize if this isn't lucid.  It really was a difficult day.

pat

WOW! Thank you so much Pat! I hope you have an easier day today!

I'll pass all of that on to Jeff. We really had a lot of fun writing the book and testing all the recipes so it is wonderful to hear that you are enjoying it!

I'll look forward to more feedback as you start baking more breads.

Zoe F

[Zoe Francois]

Well the experiment was a success. I shaped the loaves and put them in the banneton last night and refrigerated them until this morning. I baked directly out of the refrigerator and they look spectacular, except one loaf got a little misshapen. I'll see how they taste tonight but I have high expectations.

Sorry about the poor photography but you'll get the idea:



Marc

Hi Marc,

Oh, this too is very encouraging! You've got me back in the kitchen tonight with my banneton. Have I mentioned how much fun this is!!!

Thank you! Zoe F

Edited by Zoe Francois, 25 January 2008 - 08:14 AM.

[Anna N]

Rather unpromising basic dough after being shaped and retarded overnight in the ‘fridge. (Looked rather like a dead slug!)



Amazingly, here is the baked loaf:



Like Pam, I had a horrendous evening and decided to self-medicate by mixing up some Deli Rye dough.



And here are the crumbs photos, basic recipe on the left, deli rye on the right:




Kerry Beal (another eG member) arrived early in the am just after the breads had cooled and we sampled them and found them both to be superior in texture and taste. We then went off to conduct some chocolate business and when it came time for lunch opted to return to my place for more bread rather than look for a restaurant. Some soup, some cheese, lots of bread and we feasted like there was no tomorrow. There is but a heel of the rye left and about ½ of the basic loaf!

Please Zoe – a gym membership AND an extra dough 'fridge!!!

[Zoe Francois]

Kerry Beal (another eG member) arrived early in the am just after the breads had cooled and we sampled them and found them both to be superior in texture and taste.  We then went off to conduct some chocolate business and when it came time for lunch opted to return to my place for more bread rather than look for a restaurant.  Some soup, some cheese, lots of bread and we feasted like there was no tomorrow.  There is but a heel of the rye left and about ½ of the basic loaf! 

Please Zoe – a gym membership AND an extra dough 'fridge!!!

Hi Anna,

Great minds think alike, I made these same exact breads for a dinner I went to last night. I was having dinner with Suvir Saran, one of my mentors in the food world and a friend. He had tried baking the bread but had mixed reviews. We later came to realize that he was using a very soft flour he had brought back from England. Not nearly enough protein.

Suvir tried the two breads (master and caraway rye) I had baked for him and he was thrilled. We then baked a boule and some naan together and I think he is a convert!!!!

Thanks for sharing these pictures with us!

Yes, I do have a dorm fridge for dough in my basement!

Zoe F

[Pat W]

I got my book today!!  Yay!!

Don't forget to print out the errata stuff. http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/

Oops, now that I think about it, I found that website on your first post.

So many great recipes, so little time. I think I might try the calzone tonight.

pat

[Kerry Beal]

Made my first 5 minute boule this afternoon.

As usual I failed to read the directions thoroughly and didn't sprinkle the dough with flour before removing it from the bowl. I think that may have resulted in too much deflation, contributing to the lack of large bubbles in the crumb.

The loaf rounded up considerably on the bottom, making me suspect that the hydration might have been a little low.

I was also baking without a stone.

A little disappointing with the dense crumb, but I'm seeing great potential for this method, particularly after eating the better part of a loaf of the rye with caraway variation at Anna's. That was a fabulous bread.

Zoe, I wonder if you or your co-author, (who apparently came into this via rye bread), have any thoughts on the use of strong flour (aka common flour) as the source of gluten in the deli ryes. Also curious about the amount of altus that you would recommend adding to the ryes.

[Zoe Francois]

Made my first 5 minute boule this afternoon. 

As usual I failed to read the directions thoroughly and didn't sprinkle the dough with flour before removing it from the bowl.  I think that may have resulted in too much deflation, contributing to the lack of large bubbles in the crumb. 

The loaf rounded up considerably on the bottom, making me suspect that the hydration might have been a little low. 

I was also baking without a stone. 

A little disappointing with the dense crumb, but I'm seeing great potential for this method, particularly after eating the better part of a loaf of the rye with caraway variation at Anna's.  That was a fabulous bread.

Zoe, I wonder if you or your co-author, (who apparently came into this via rye bread), have any thoughts on the use of strong flour (aka common flour) as the source of gluten in the deli ryes.  Also curious about the amount of altus that you would recommend adding to the ryes.

Hi Kerry,

I'm glad you have tried the method and I'm sure with a little tweaking you can fix the crumb issue that you had in your first loaf.

If the dough was dry, over handled or baked within the first 24 hours it will effect the crumb. you want to make sure that the dough is slack enough or it will fail to give you any nice holes in the bread and it won't store for as long. If the dough was dry enough that you could handle it without a good coating of flour on your hands and on the dough, I suspect you are correct and the hydration was too low.
Lastly if you mixed the dough up and baked it off in the first 24 hours the crumb will be much tighter than in will be after a few days of storage. It gets better with age, as long as the dough is wet enough.

The high protein flour will work beautifully in the rye recipe, as long as it is wet enough. The higher protein flour absorbs much more liquid so you'll have to add more water to the recipe. You can add up to a cup of the altus to the dough as well, this will help to compensate for the high protein flour. You don't want to do much more than a cup because it has no gluten and will start to make the dough leaden when baked.

Please keep me posted!

Thanks, Zoe F

[Pat W]

OK, my first attempt from the new cookbook. It was a late start after we dragged ourselves home from work tonight. We hadn't had all that much for lunch so you can imagine the reception I received to: "No, not yet... I have to take a picture".

As is almost always the case, he was a prince.

The recipe was ridiculously easy yet somehow I managed to get whole wheat flour all over the kitchen. This would not come as a surprise to anyone who has seen me in action. The stove, the floor, the counters & the cook were all well dusted. Just enough remained to lubricate the pizza peel.

My crimping left something to be desired... but despite of all the disclaimers, this was delicious. The crust was, as they say, to die for. It really was wonderful.

We can't get good ricotta cheese here, so I suspect this could have been even better. A year or so ago there was a thread on Egullet on making your own ricotta cheese. I haven't been able to find it. If this rings a bell with anyone, could you please direct me to the original thread?

Even with lousy ricotta cheese this was terrific. And gosh, tomorrow night it's pizza!


pat

[demiglace]

I didn't plan on making the bread tonight but having the dough in the fridge got the better of me...loved it. Pizza tomorrow.

Edited by demiglace, 26 January 2008 - 04:45 PM.

[Anna N]

OK, my first attempt from the new cookbook. 

. . .

That looks truly oustanding, Pat.

[Pat W]

OK, my first attempt from the new cookbook. 

. . .

That looks truly oustanding, Pat.

Thank you Anna. I fear having this dough on hand may be a danger to our waistbands.

pat

[Anna N]

OK, my first attempt from the new cookbook. 

. . .

That looks truly oustanding, Pat.

Thank you Anna. I fear having this dough on hand may be a danger to our waistbands.

pat

There's no need to fear - it's a fact!!!

Made another deli rye this am and hubby was ecstatic - the stuff is just addictive. Now I need to try pumpernickel and sandwich bread and..... I have no life - but I am making lots of dough.

[Kouign Aman]

Perfect recipe to do with those of short attention span (aka "children").
The munchkin greatly enjoyed helping mix up the dough last night, and watching it expand in the bowl during the two hours at roomT.

We 'shaped' a loaf and set it in the fridge overnight (plastic wrap loose, on a ton of cornmeal), then baked it straight from the fridge.

I too failed to have sufficient flour 'on hand' when slashing the loaf, and had fits getting good cuts (perhaps I need a visit to the eGCI knife course). Possibly as a result of this, the loaf didnt rise quite enough. Its a bit doughy but very brown.
No pic 'cause you dont want to see....

Not the best bread I've made but definitely edible. And thats within 13 hours of starting to mix the dough. I expect tomorrow will be much better (if I can wait that long. I may try a second loaf today, to see if part of the issue was the O/N fridge proofing vs 90 min at RT).

At this stage, I think it needs more salt, but since the flavor is supposed to develop over the next two days in the fridge, I'll wait and see.

Despite less than perfect results, I'm pleased with the recipe and outcome. And really appreciative of all the comments and discussion in this topic, since they greatly aided in following the NYT-printed recipe. The video also is helpful.

Wheeeee!

[onrushpam]

Believe it or not, the best knife I've found for slashing loaves is the red serrated knife from this cheapy set I got at Target: Clicky

Pam

[Zoe Francois]

[/quote]

Hi Pat, this looks fantastic!!!! Yum.

If you find the recipe for the ricotta cheese, please share it with us.

Thanks, Zoe

[Zoe Francois]

Perfect recipe to do with those of short attention span (aka "children").
The munchkin greatly enjoyed helping mix up the dough last night, and watching it expand in the bowl during the two hours at roomT.

We 'shaped' a loaf and set it in the fridge overnight (plastic wrap loose, on a ton of cornmeal), then baked it straight from the fridge.

I too failed to have sufficient flour 'on hand' when slashing the loaf, and had fits getting good cuts (perhaps I need a visit to the eGCI knife course). Possibly as a result of this, the loaf didnt rise quite enough. Its a bit doughy but very brown.
No pic 'cause you dont want to see....

Not the best bread I've made but definitely edible. And thats within 13 hours of starting to mix the dough. I expect tomorrow will be much better (if I can wait that long.  I may try a second loaf today, to see if part of the issue was the O/N fridge proofing vs 90 min at RT).

At this stage, I think it needs more salt, but since the flavor is supposed to develop over the next two days in the fridge, I'll wait and see.

Despite less than perfect results, I'm pleased with the recipe and outcome. And really appreciative of all the comments and discussion in this topic, since they greatly aided in following the NYT-printed recipe.  The video also is helpful.

Wheeeee!

Hi Kouign,

I'll be interested to see what you think in a couple of days. If the bread continues to be dense, after the dough has sat for a few days then I would suspect that the dough is too dry?

Keep me posted. Zoe

[CaliPoutine]

I'm going to mix up the rye bread and bake it on Wednesday.

Question, I have almost 14 day old basic dough in the fridge. Should I add a portion of that to the rye loaf or throw it out?

[Zoe Francois]

I'm going to mix up the rye bread and bake it on Wednesday. 

Question, I have almost 14 day old basic dough in the fridge.  Should I add a portion of that to the rye loaf or throw it out?

By all means use the "old" dough in your next recipe. It will be great in the rye dough. Just dump the next batch right over the dough and mix it all together! It will jump start the flavor in your fresh batch.

Zoe