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"Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day" Zoe Francois (2008–2009)

Bread Cookbook

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#61 Zoe Francois

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 03:38 PM

Hi Randi. Thank you for starting this discussion and inviting me to join in. I read through the emials and have tried to address many of the questions that I saw. If I've missed anything please let me know!

I think most of you are using a recipe that was printed in a newspaper article and I'm not sure how well they stressed to handle the dough as little as possible. The trick to getting a really nice crumb with this method is three fold. Well there is probably more but this is a good start:

One, let the dough store for at least 2 days to really let it ferment. It improves the taste considerably and the crumb. If you bake it on the first day you will have a mild flavor and a tight crumb.

Two, handle the dough as little as possible. We say to shape it for 30-60 seconds but that is even too long. It should be about 20 seconds. Experienced bakers have a tendency to want to knead. This knocks out all of the gas that has built up during the storing and will make the dough dense. So less is more in this case.

Three, the hydration level of our dough, although we avoid terms like that in the book, is about 75% if you are using average unbleached all-purpose flour. If you switch to KA all-purpose the protein level is much higher and you will want to increase the hydration to 81%. This means you will be adding about 1/4 more water to the dough. It should be wet and sticky, unlike traditional doughs. If it is too dry the crumb will be dense and it won't store for as long.

This is also true of WW flours that you add to the dough. If you replace some of the AP for WW then increase the hydration. WW absorbs way more water and will make for a dry dough.

The crust:
We say to bake the bread in the middle of the oven on a baking stone preheated to 450 degrees (flat heat). Throw a cup of hot water on a broiler tray that is on the bottom rack and shut the door. I read your debate about water vs ice cubes and I have to say that as long as you are doing it in the beginning of the baking process we haven't found much of a difference. I personally prefer the results of the water over the ice, but do what you like best!

Someone mentioned using less yeast. You can do this but just remember that you have to increase all of the resting times significantly.

The resting times in the book are based on a 1 pound loaf which is really pretty small. If your loaf is any bigger than that then you need to allow more resting time on the peel before it goes in the oven. This is also true if your kitchen is particularly cool and the dough isn't warming up quickly enough.

We say that the dough can rest for as little as 40 minutes for a 1 pound boule of the master recipe. It certainly won't hurt it to rest for up to an hour, longer for a cool kitchen.

I'm sure I missed some things you have been discussing. I'd love to hear from you and answer any questions I can.

Thanks again for trying the bread! The pictures you have posted are fantastic. It is so much fun to see how people are using the recipes.

Thanks, Zoe Francois

For those of you who are using the book please check out the errata sheet at our websites: www.zoebakes.com and www.artisanbreadinfive.com

#62 kbjesq

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 03:47 PM

Here is a picture of the loaf that I baked from the "regular" yeast batch. As had been suggested, I let this loaf rise longer - a total of 60 minutes. There was a slight improvement in the texture, and the flavor was noticeably stronger. Oddly (for a person who loves salt), I found the salt flavor to be too strong. I didn't notice that in the earlier loaf.

I still have 3/4 batch of the "rapid rise" yeast batch and 3/4 batch of the "regular" batch in the fridge, so I will be playing around with the dough this week. Hopefully, I will hit upon the correct formula to achieve the results that others have reported!

Posted Image

#63 kbjesq

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 04:07 PM

Hi Zoe and Welcome to Egullet! Thanks for joining and jumping in here on this discussion.

I found the following comments especially helpful:

One, let the dough store for at least 2 days to really let it ferment. It improves the taste considerably and the crumb. If you bake it on the first day you will have a mild flavor and a tight crumb.

This explains why the loaf that I baked on day one (post #44) has less taste and crumb than the one that I baked today.

Two, handle the dough as little as possible. We say to shape it for 30-60 seconds but that is even too long. It should be about 20 seconds. Experienced bakers have a tendency to want to knead. This knocks out all of the gas that has built up during the storing and will make the dough dense. So less is more in this case.

Good tip - it is hard to give up dough handling! Even the NYT NKB recipe was hard to follow in this regard - it feels "wrong" not to knead.

Three, the hydration level of our dough, although we avoid terms like that in the book, is about 75% if you are using average unbleached all-purpose flour. If you switch to KA all-purpose the protein level is much higher and you will want to increase the hydration to 81%. This means you will be adding about 1/4 more water to the dough. It should be wet and sticky, unlike traditional doughs. If it is too dry the crumb will be dense and it won't store for as long.

You have diagnosed my loaf problem! I automatically reached for my bread flour, which I suspect has a higher protein level. The dough was not as wet as you describe, so I will try again and add 25% more water as you suggest.

Thanks again for joining Egullet and thanks also to Calipoutine for inviting you!

#64 Anna N

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 05:08 PM

Hi Randi. Thank you for starting this discussion and inviting me to join in. I read through the emials and have tried to address many of the questions that I saw. If I've missed anything please let me know!

View Post


Welcome Zoe!

I know you have attempted to answer this question but it remains unclear to me, at least.

When you have taken cold dough from the refrigerator do you still consider 40 minutes sufficient rest time? I am assuming a refrigerator temp of about 35F and a room temp between 68 and 70F?

And one more question:

If one wanted to sub bread flour for all-purpose (sorry my package does not give a gluten/protein measure) would a 25% increase in water be sufficient or will it be a case of judging the wetness of the dough?

I have made your bread a number of times with varying degrees of success. Always I have used A/P flour, granulated yeast (not fast rise) and kosher salt. I love the idea of having dough on hand to produce a 1 lb loaf for us in a very short time. Now I would like to improve the consistency of my efforts!
Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

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#65 onrushpam

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 06:54 PM

Well, my first loaf is in the oven and I just read Zoe's post... I think I'll probably need to try again. I used KA AP flour and when I shaped the loaf (probably 20 seconds) I thought, "WOW! This isn't as wet as I expected! It's VERY easy to handle/shape!" Uh-oh... methinks the dough wasn't hydrated enough.

It was so easy to mix up and looked wonderful after about 4 hours at room temp, before I put it in the fridge 2 days ago. So, we'll see... I'm certainly willing to try again with more water or different flour!

Pam

#66 onrushpam

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 07:43 PM

Well, it certainly looks pretty and has nice crust and flavor. The crumb is a bit dense, no doubt due to under-hydration. I'm betting this batch will make great pizza and know what's on the menu for one night this week.

I'll try again next weekend with different flour or more water. It's certainly a recipe worth fiddling with to get it right. I'm off to order the book...

#67 Zoe Francois

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 08:00 PM

Here is a picture of the loaf that I baked from the "regular" yeast batch.  As had been suggested, I let this loaf rise longer - a total of 60 minutes.  There was a slight improvement in the texture, and the flavor was noticeably stronger.  Oddly (for a person who loves salt), I found the salt flavor to be too strong.  I didn't notice that in the earlier loaf.

I still have 3/4 batch of the "rapid rise" yeast batch and 3/4 batch of the "regular" batch in the fridge, so I will be playing around with the dough this week.  Hopefully, I will hit upon the correct formula to achieve the results that others have reported!

Posted Image

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Hi. The crumb of your bread looks a little tight, this is probably no news to you! A couple of things I think may be at play. It may be fresh dough? But, I don't think that is it. I think your dough is too dry. If you are one to weigh your ingredients this is how we break it down:

Our 1 cup measure is equal to 5 oz of unbleached all-purpose flour or 2# for the master recipe. If you are used to weighing, which I would imagine most of you are, I'd try this and see if the dough seems wetter.

The dough should be so wet that it conforms to the container it is in. Use plenty of flour when forming it into a boule. The flour is only to keep your hands from sticking, it is not to incorporate into the dough. Be gentle with the dough, do not work it much other than to form the boule. It is better to have a misshapen boule than to have the perfect shape with an overly tight crumb. If you are used to traditional bread baking this will take a few tries in order to feel comfortable with it. Less is better! Keep that gas in tact so you will get the nice holes in your dough. This will be more pronounced as the dough ages.

The type of yeast that you use should not have a large enough effect to notice a difference. In other words we used instant and regular yeast and because of the long storage the result was the same.

Salt is another story all together. Go with your palate on this one. We tested all the recipes with Morton's kosher salt. I've had as many people complain about it being too salty as I have of them saying it isn't salty enough. This is an individual taste issue. Although salt is often added to denature or relax the dough we find that after the dough has retarded for a few days the salt doesn't play a significant role. So just add what tastes good!

Also let the crust really get a deep brown. Ignore the times we give for baking. This will depend on your oven and it is safer to go by color!

Keep me posted!

Thanks, Zoe

#68 Zoe Francois

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 08:40 PM

Welcome Zoe! 

I know you have attempted to answer this question but it remains unclear to me, at least.

When you have taken cold dough from the refrigerator do you still consider 40 minutes sufficient rest time?  I am assuming a refrigerator temp of about 35F and a room temp between 68 and 70F? 

And one more question:

If one wanted to sub bread flour for all-purpose (sorry my package does not give a gluten/protein measure) would a 25% increase in water be sufficient or will it be a case of judging the wetness of the dough?

I have made your bread a number of times with varying degrees of success.  Always I have used A/P flour, granulated yeast (not fast rise) and kosher salt.  I love the idea of having dough on hand to produce a 1 lb loaf for us in a very short time.  Now I would like to improve the consistency of my efforts!

View Post

Hi Anna,

Thanks for the welcome! I'm so happy to get a chance to talk bread with people that are passionate about food!

If your loaves are 1 pound and your room is 68-70 degrees than 40 minutes should be enough time to get a decent loaf. Having said that, it certainly won't hurt to let it rest for an hour. We came up with 40 minutes as the minimum rest time in order to stress to people that they didn't have to wait all day to bake a loaf of bread. One thing to think about is the actual size of a 1 pound loaf, it is really pretty small! So, if your loaf is any larger than that than you need to increase the rest time.

One other tip is to replace 1 cup of the all-purpose with rye flour. For some reason we find that this not only makes a more interesting taste but it really seems to improve the crumb of the bread. And it makes the bread last longer once it is baked.

You can replace the all-purpose flour with bread flour but your hydration will go up to as much as 83% depending on the flour. From what I have been hearing from bakers in Canada the flour tends to be harder and contain more protein? I need to research this a bit more. If it is true than you may need to add more water still???

Let me know if this helps!

Zoe

Edited by Zoe Francois, 22 January 2008 - 08:08 PM.


#69 Zoe Francois

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 08:53 PM

Well, it certainly looks pretty and has nice crust and flavor.  The crumb is a bit dense, no doubt due to under-hydration.  I'm betting this batch will make great pizza and know what's on the menu for one night this week.

I'll try again next weekend with different flour or more water.  It's certainly a recipe worth fiddling with to get it right.  I'm off to order the book...

View Post


Hi Pam, When you go to make the pizza try to get it nice and thin and bake it at 550 degrees, putting your pizza stone on the bottom rack. If the stone is on the bottom the crust will get nice and crisp and the toppings will not burn!

Enjoy! Zoe

#70 Anna N

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 07:13 AM

. . .

Hi Anna,
. . .

One other tip is to replace 1/2 cup of the all-purpose with rye flour. For some reason we find that this not only makes a more interesting taste but it really seems to improve the crumb of the bread. And it makes the bread last longer once it is baked.

You can replace the all-purpose flour with bread flour but your hydration will go up to as much as 83% depending on the flour. From what I have been hearing from bakers in Canada the flour tends to be harder and contain more protein? I need to research this a bit more. If it is true than you may need to add more water still???

Let me know if this helps!

Zoe

View Post


Thanks Zoe.

I have a batch of dough in the 'fridge which I made this morning using Robin Hood Best for Bread Flour (for Canadian members!). I weighed out 2lbs of this flour, used 1.5 T of active dry yeast (not instant) and 2 T of Diamond Crystal salt and 3 3/4 cups of 100F water. My suspicion is that it could easily have tolerated another ounce or two or water but I will go with this for the time being. I want to give it at least a 24 hour rest in the 'fridge before baking so in the next couple of days I will post photos of the dough and the finished bread and see how it works out.

I think the rye flour addition could be most interesting but will wait and do one "experiment" at a time.

Your interest in our efforts is very much appreciated.

Anna

P.S. I have used previous batches of dough to make the Mark Bittman "pan-fried" pizza and it has produced a lovely, thin, crispy crust.

Anna
Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

"It either works fine or not, but what the heck. This is bread, not birth control." Susan of Wild Yeast blog
Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog
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#71 Zoe Francois

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 08:15 AM

Hi Anna,

Keep me posted on the bread. I have pictures of my bucket of dough on my website if you think that will be helpful to compare. The visual is a good way to go, too bad you can't smell the bucket as well! I had meant to document the dough for the full 14 days but then I ended up with 7 boys at my house last night and had to feed them, so I made pizza with that dough. I'll have to start over.

Do try the rye next time, but don't replace much more than a 1/2 cup. Rye has no gluten to speak of and it will become paste if the ratio of white flour isn't high enough.

Thanks, Zoe

ps I have to figure out how to get your quotes in the box?? It seems not to work every other time! :wacko:

Edited by Zoe Francois, 22 January 2008 - 08:21 AM.


#72 llc45

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 05:17 PM

Hi Zoe - I am so happy you are participating in this forum. I've had the book since before x-mas and also bought it for several people on my shopping list. I made lots of brioche over the holidays both with and without the chocolate ganache - it was delicious.

I am hoping that you can provide suggestions about how to increase the amount of wheat flour in the basic bread. I see that the recipe with more whole wheat calls for honey and milk. While I haven't tried it yet, I am assuming that it will have some sweetness. Can I add 25% more water, would this be enough if I want to try to achieve something like a seven grain bread? Thank you for your advice.

#73 Zoe Francois

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 07:01 PM

Hi Zoe - I am so happy you are participating in this forum.  I've had the book since before x-mas and also bought it for several people on my shopping list.  I made lots of brioche over the holidays both with and without the chocolate ganache - it was delicious.

I am hoping that you can provide suggestions about how to increase the amount of wheat flour in the basic bread.  I see that the recipe with more whole wheat calls for honey and milk.  While I haven't tried it yet, I am assuming that it will have some sweetness.  Can I add 25% more water, would this be enough if I want to try to achieve something like a seven grain bread?  Thank you for your advice.

View Post


Hi. Thanks for trying the bread and sharing it with so many people!

The reason we put the honey and oil in the whole wheat recipes is to tenderize the bread. We were finding that a bread with straight whole wheat was a bit dry and if we added an amount of fat and/or sweetener it helped the texture.

Having said that I have made the bread with White Whole Wheat Flour from KA with great results. It is both lighter in flavor and color and seems to not dry out quite as much. I increase the hydration to about 83% when I do this bread.

The other thing to play with are soaked grains that will add some moisture to the bread. I'm testing some doughs right now.

Let me know how it goes. Hope this answered your question?

Zoe

#74 llc45

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 07:47 PM


Hi Zoe - I am so happy you are participating in this forum.  I've had the book since before x-mas and also bought it for several people on my shopping list.  I made lots of brioche over the holidays both with and without the chocolate ganache - it was delicious.

I am hoping that you can provide suggestions about how to increase the amount of wheat flour in the basic bread.  I see that the recipe with more whole wheat calls for honey and milk.  While I haven't tried it yet, I am assuming that it will have some sweetness.  Can I add 25% more water, would this be enough if I want to try to achieve something like a seven grain bread?  Thank you for your advice.

View Post


Hi. Thanks for trying the bread and sharing it with so many people!

The reason we put the honey and oil in the whole wheat recipes is to tenderize the bread. We were finding that a bread with straight whole wheat was a bit dry and if we added an amount of fat and/or sweetener it helped the texture.

Having said that I have made the bread with White Whole Wheat Flour from KA with great results. It is both lighter in flavor and color and seems to not dry out quite as much. I increase the hydration to about 83% when I do this bread.

The other thing to play with are soaked grains that will add some moisture to the bread. I'm testing some doughs right now.

Let me know how it goes. Hope this answered your question?

Zoe

View Post


Thank you so much. If I understand you correctly, I will start to leave the whole wheat at one cup and then add some soaked grains. I already learned the hard way before I got the book that adding too much whole wheat really didn't work.

#75 mhjoseph

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 09:08 AM

Hi Zoe,

I have a question. My usual method in baking artisan type breads is to retard the shaped loafs overnight and bake them cold out of the fridge first thing in the morning (in a preheated oven of course). I have no problem and get great oven spring.

This fits my schedule very nicely and I would like to adapt this method because it works for me. If I shape the loaves the night before and either put them in the refrigerator or leave out at room temp, which is about 65F this time of year, do you think I'll have a problem?

Thanks,
Marc

#76 Zoe Francois

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 03:54 PM

Hi Zoe,

I have a question. My usual method in baking artisan type breads is to retard the shaped loafs overnight and bake them cold out of the fridge first thing in the morning (in a preheated oven of course). I have no problem and get great oven spring.

This fits my schedule very nicely and I would like to adapt this method because it works for me. If I shape the loaves the night before and either put them in the refrigerator or leave out at room temp, which is about 65F this time of year, do you think I'll have a problem?

Thanks,
Marc

View Post


Hi Marc,

Great question! I do believe you will have the same good luck with our dough. In fact I wonder if this won't solve many of the problems of over handling while shaping, because it will have such a nice long cool rise. Very interesting indeed!

If I understand correctly you also were wondering about leaving the dough out all night at room temperature? It is worth a try, but I suspect that it will over proof and will have no oven spring? I've never tried this so it would be a good experiment.

As soon as I leave this computer I'm going to shape a loaf and then set it to rise in the refrigerator. I'll report tomorrow what I come up with.

Thanks for the inspiration!

Zoe

#77 mhjoseph

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 04:16 PM

The house is pretty cold at night, we've been having single digit temps at night and I set back the thermostat to 65 at night. I've never tried overnight proofing out of fridge before.

I'm anxiously awaiting your results.

Marc


Hi Zoe,

I have a question. My usual method in baking artisan type breads is to retard the shaped loafs overnight and bake them cold out of the fridge first thing in the morning (in a preheated oven of course). I have no problem and get great oven spring.

This fits my schedule very nicely and I would like to adapt this method because it works for me. If I shape the loaves the night before and either put them in the refrigerator or leave out at room temp, which is about 65F this time of year, do you think I'll have a problem?

Thanks,
Marc

View Post


Hi Marc,

Great question! I do believe you will have the same good luck with our dough. In fact I wonder if this won't solve many of the problems of over handling while shaping, because it will have such a nice long cool rise. Very interesting indeed!

If I understand correctly you also were wondering about leaving the dough out all night at room temperature? It is worth a try, but I suspect that it will over proof and will have no oven spring? I've never tried this so it would be a good experiment.

As soon as I leave this computer I'm going to shape a loaf and then set it to rise in the refrigerator. I'll report tomorrow what I come up with.

Thanks for the inspiration!

Zoe

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#78 Anna N

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 05:17 PM

So here are the results using bread flour:


Posted Image

Dough being mixed in large bowl.

Posted Image

Transferred to 2 smaller containers to fit in the 'fridge.

Posted Image

Dough after 3 hours at room temperature.

Posted Image

Dough after 24 hours in 'fridge


Posted Image

A portion of the dough removed and shaped ready to bake. It was not the lb I wanted but a little under 13 ozs!

Posted Image

Dough after 50 minutes at room temperature. I left it longer because my oven won't get up to temp in less than 30 minutes despite the "pre-heat" light going off. At this point the surface temperature of the dough was only 65F (room temp was 68F).

Posted Image

Very poor slashing job!

Posted Image

The dough right out of the oven.

Posted Image

And here's the crumb.

This was excellent despite only 24 hours in the fridge and I truly think that the bread flour is a better choice for me.

This dough is NOT going to make it for 14 days in my 'fridge. We like it too much but I will try to restrain myself and aim for a few more days before baking the next batch.

I swear it was faster and easier to make the bread than to upload the images in the right order. :biggrin:
Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

"It either works fine or not, but what the heck. This is bread, not birth control." Susan of Wild Yeast blog
Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog
My 2004 eG Blog

#79 onrushpam

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 05:37 PM

So here are the results using bread flour:

View Post


That looks fabulous!!! Did you increase the water, due to using the bread flour?

I munched a left-over piece of my first loaf last night... didn't even warm it up and it was GOOD! :biggrin:

Pam

#80 Anna N

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 05:49 PM

So here are the results using bread flour:

View Post


That looks fabulous!!! Did you increase the water, due to using the bread flour?

I munched the lone left-over piece of my first loaf last night... didn't even warm it up and it was GOOD! :biggrin:

I'm hoping to try pizza tomorrow night!

Pam

View Post


Yes, here's the adaptation I used as explained a bit earlier in this topic:

I have a batch of dough in the 'fridge which I made this morning using Robin Hood Best for Bread Flour (for Canadian members!). I weighed out 2lbs of this flour, used 1.5 T of active dry yeast (not instant) and 2 T of Diamond Crystal salt and 3 3/4 cups of 100F water.
Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

"It either works fine or not, but what the heck. This is bread, not birth control." Susan of Wild Yeast blog
Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog
My 2004 eG Blog

#81 CaliPoutine

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 06:02 PM

That looks really great Anna. Have you made the original NKB? If so, how do you think it compares in flavor to this bread?

My next batch I'm going to try with the bread flour.

#82 Zoe Francois

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 07:09 PM

So here are the results using bread flour:


Hi Anna,

This looks amazing! Lovely crust and the crumb looks fantastic as well! Thanks for all the pictures. I look forward to what you think of the bread after a few days.

The dough looked incredibly wet, but it doesn't seem as though you had any trouble handling it?

Keep us posted.

Zoe

#83 Anna N

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Posted 24 January 2008 - 02:09 AM

That looks really great Anna.  Have you made the original NKB?  If so, how do you think it compares in flavor to this bread? 

My next batch I'm going to try with the bread flour.

View Post


Strangely (or perhaps not!) I have never made the original NKB. I did, however, make the CI modified version. It was a great bread but I find the timing and the need for beer to be problematic. I keep very strange hours and find it harder to incorporate an 18 hour rise into my schedule. My other objection is the size of the NKB when there are normally only the two of us.
Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

"It either works fine or not, but what the heck. This is bread, not birth control." Susan of Wild Yeast blog
Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog
My 2004 eG Blog

#84 Anna N

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Posted 24 January 2008 - 02:16 AM

So here are the results using bread flour:


Hi Anna,

This looks amazing! Lovely crust and the crumb looks fantastic as well! Thanks for all the pictures. I look forward to what you think of the bread after a few days.

The dough looked incredibly wet, but it doesn't seem as though you had any trouble handling it?

Keep us posted.

Zoe

View Post


Thanks, Zoe.

The dough is incredibly wet but I have had some experience working with wet doughs and didn't find this one too much of a challenge. It requires lots of flour on the hands and the dough and a certain deftness but it's not difficult. One has to accept something less than perfection in the shape of these very wet doughs and I think that is really hard for some of us. I also find the slashing to be a challenge.
Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

"It either works fine or not, but what the heck. This is bread, not birth control." Susan of Wild Yeast blog
Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog
My 2004 eG Blog

#85 Zoe Francois

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Posted 24 January 2008 - 06:39 AM

Thanks, Zoe.

The dough is incredibly wet but I have had some experience working with wet doughs and didn't find this one too much of a challenge.  It requires lots of flour on the hands and the dough and a certain deftness but it's not difficult.  One has to accept something less than perfection in the shape of these very wet doughs and I think that is really hard for some of us.  I also find the slashing to be a challenge.

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Hi Anna,

I hate to even say it, because your loaf is near perfection, but you can play with the hydration level if it is too hard to handle, shape or slash. But, I thought it looked great and if the flavor is there than keep on doing what your doing!

Zoe

Edited by Zoe Francois, 24 January 2008 - 06:40 AM.


#86 Zoe Francois

Zoe Francois
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Posted 24 January 2008 - 12:18 PM

I shaped the loaf before I went to bed, put it on cornmeal and wrpped it loosely:

Posted Image
The next morning I preheated the oven to 450 with a stone on the middle rack. The dough had spread out but had not risen at all, as is the case with this dough. Didn't look great at this point! But I slashed it, put it in the oven and crossed my fingers!
Posted Image

The crust was amazing! But how about the crumb? Honestly I was expecting it to be a bit dense having only a cold rise and no time on the counter before hitting the oven.
Posted Image

It was fantastic!!! I jumped up and down, then ran for the butter!
Posted Image


Hey Marc, thanks for the inspiration. This was so much fun!!!! and tasty! Zoe

Hi Zoe,

I have a question. My usual method in baking artisan type breads is to retard the shaped loafs overnight and bake them cold out of the fridge first thing in the morning (in a preheated oven of course). I have no problem and get great oven spring.

This fits my schedule very nicely and I would like to adapt this method because it works for me. If I shape the loaves the night before and either put them in the refrigerator or leave out at room temp, which is about 65F this time of year, do you think I'll have a problem?

Thanks,
Marc

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#87 Anna N

Anna N
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Posted 24 January 2008 - 12:35 PM

. . .

The crust was amazing! But how about the crumb? Honestly I was expecting it to be a bit dense having only a cold rise and no time on the counter before hitting the oven.

. . .

It was fantastic!!! I jumped up and down, then ran for the butter!

. . . .

Hey Marc, thanks for the inspiration. This was so much fun!!!! and tasty! Zoe

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WOW! That just makes it that much more adaptable to one's variable time-table.

Thanks Marc and Zoe for this additional option.

Zoe,

I might reduce the hydration a smidge next time to make the dough a little more manageable but I will wait to bake off the rest of this dough before I decide.

P.S. I finally have a copy of your book (courtesy of a good friend)! Even for those who are working from a re-print of the master recipe, this book is worth getting - there is so much more in it! The reprinted version misses much of the explanation and the finer points of this method.

Anna
Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

"It either works fine or not, but what the heck. This is bread, not birth control." Susan of Wild Yeast blog
Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog
My 2004 eG Blog

#88 tino27

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Posted 24 January 2008 - 12:43 PM

You might also try shaping the boule and placing it on parchment paper -- this is how I do my ciabatta (which is about 89% hydration). That way the dough and parchment both go into my oven right onto the stone. About half-way through the baking process I will normally rotate the breads for even cooking. I'll also just slip out the parchment from underneath the loaves at the same time. Although the cornmeal may still be desirable for texture/flavor, you won't have to use so much to actually transfer from the plastic to the oven.

Hydration level is one of those tricky things. More hydration promotes those nice big irregular holes in the finished bread. Less hydration generally causes a higher final loaf, but a more regular crumb.
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#89 mhjoseph

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Posted 24 January 2008 - 12:58 PM

Wow, that looks fantastic. I think I'm going to take it a step further when I do this tonight and proof the loaf in a banneton if it's not impossibly wet.

Marc






I shaped the loaf before I went to bed, put it on cornmeal and wrpped it loosely:

Posted Image
The next morning I preheated the oven to 450 with a stone on the middle rack. The dough had spread out but had not risen at all, as is the case with this dough. Didn't look great at this point! But I slashed it, put it in the oven and crossed my fingers!
Posted Image

The crust was amazing! But how about the crumb? Honestly I was expecting it to be a bit dense having only a cold rise and no time on the counter before hitting the oven.
Posted Image

It was fantastic!!! I jumped up and down, then ran for the butter!
Posted Image


Hey Marc, thanks for the inspiration. This was so much fun!!!! and tasty! Zoe

Hi Zoe,

I have a question. My usual method in baking artisan type breads is to retard the shaped loafs overnight and bake them cold out of the fridge first thing in the morning (in a preheated oven of course). I have no problem and get great oven spring.

This fits my schedule very nicely and I would like to adapt this method because it works for me. If I shape the loaves the night before and either put them in the refrigerator or leave out at room temp, which is about 65F this time of year, do you think I'll have a problem?

Thanks,
Marc

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#90 Anna N

Anna N
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Posted 24 January 2008 - 01:23 PM

Wow, that looks fantastic. I think I'm going to take it a step further when I do this tonight and proof the loaf in a banneton if it's not impossibly wet.

Marc
. . . .

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Funny you should say that as it's exactly the last thought I remember before I fell asleep last night!
Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

"It either works fine or not, but what the heck. This is bread, not birth control." Susan of Wild Yeast blog
Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog
My 2004 eG Blog





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