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"Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day" Zoe Francois (2008–2009)

Bread Cookbook

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#511 ElsieD

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 03:30 PM

What a wonderful pictoral. I'm going to have to try both the recipe and then follow the baking directions. First, though, I have to find malt powder. Where can I find this? Note than I am in Canada.

#512 Kerry Beal

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 03:51 PM

I picked up malt powder at the bulk store. I'm in Canada too. I can send you some if you want.

#513 Heartsurgeon

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 04:25 PM

What a wonderful pictoral. I'm going to have to try both the recipe and then follow the baking directions. First, though, I have to find malt powder. Where can I find this? Note than I am in Canada.


King Arthur Flour Diastatic Malt powder

King Arthur FLour Non-Diastatic powder

When i went looking for malt powder, i ended up buying both the diastatic and the non-diastatic, partially because they were cheap, relative to the shipping cost, and partially because i had no clue which one i should use. I tried both (in the dough), and eventually just mixed the two together, and use 20 gms per 1000 gms of flour...adds some very nice "breadiness" to the bread.

My latest addition is 20 gms of semolina flour, which i believe makes the bread a tad more tasty. Of course, this could be my imagination. The malt however, makes a clear difference.

King Arthur ships to Canada (heck, they probably make their flour from canadian winter wheat). One sack of malt powder will last you forever....

A super aged sharp cheddar with this bread, and a cup of hot tea is my breakfast of choice...it doesn't get any better...

I did try adding small amounts of whole wheat as well, without the desired effect, in fact i thought it ruined the taste i was looking for.

All that said, i do have a recipe for my bread machine that makes an excellent whole wheat bread loaf that i slice into sandwich bread. Sliced and toasted it's great, but entirely different from the bread i was trying for in this recipe.

Edited by Heartsurgeon, 13 June 2009 - 04:35 PM.


#514 Kerry Beal

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 04:39 PM

What a wonderful pictoral. I'm going to have to try both the recipe and then follow the baking directions. First, though, I have to find malt powder. Where can I find this? Note than I am in Canada.


King Arthur Flour Diastatic Malt powder

King Arthur FLour Non-Diastatic powder

When i went looking for malt powder, i ended up buying both the diastatic and the non-diastatic, partially because they were cheap, relative to the shipping cost, and partially because i had no clue which one i should use. I tried both (in the dough), and eventually just mixed the two together, and use 20 gms per 1000 gms of flour...adds some very nice "breadiness" to the bread.

My latest addition is 20 gms of semolina flour, which i believe makes the bread a tad more tasty. Of course, this could be my imagination. The malt however, makes a clear difference.

King Arthur ships to Canada (heck, they probably make their flour from canadian winter wheat). One sack of malt powder will last you forever....

A super aged sharp cheddar with this bread, and a cup of hot tea is my breakfast of choice...it doesn't get any better...

I did try adding small amounts of whole wheat as well, without the desired effect, in fact i thought it ruined the taste i was looking for.

All that said, i do have a recipe for my bread machine that makes an excellent whole wheat bread loaf that i slice into sandwich bread. Sliced and toasted it's great, but entirely different from the bread i was trying for in this recipe.

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KIng Arthur does indeed ship to Canada - but you'll have to mortgage your house to get it here!

#515 Desiderio

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 09:29 AM

Beautiful demo Doc.  It is obvious that your training has come in very useful. 

Since we stated making our own bread over two years ago we now make our own marmalade and mustard.  Can't tell were this is going to lead.

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You know I think once you start making your own food one thing leads to another and you become very demanding with the quality and I have to say here where I live there is a huge lack of good food, plus I love to be able to make my own whenever I want, and its fun, I only wish I didnt have to work, I find that work gets in my way sometimes :laugh: :laugh:
Vanessa

#516 Desiderio

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 10:00 AM

Ok I still need some practice for this bread the results arent quite what I want but it definately had lots of potential, I cant wait to get the book.
I made another dough yesterday made with a sourdough I just started a while back, I didnt use any yeast only sour dough, I let it rise for a long time ( actually I forgot it out all night) when I woke up in the morning was just fine and filled up the tub, I then put it back in the fridge, I might try to bake with it tomorrow ( got lots of bread around). I really want to achieve a nice crumb, the crust is very nice but the crumb is still too tight, I think I am not letting the dough get warm enough before I bake. The dutch oven does a very good job I am impressed and its soo easy!!
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Edited by Desiderio, 14 June 2009 - 10:27 AM.

Vanessa

#517 Heartsurgeon

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 12:17 PM

in general terms, to improve the crumb, increase your hydration. If your refrigerating your dough prior to baking, increase your rise time after you form your boule.

i increased my rise time of 2 hours, and saw significant improvement in crumb.
i was limited in the amount of hydration i could deal with, as my dough became to runny for me to handle easily.

with the dutch oven technique, a wetter dough should be more managable.

that's a killer crust. it's making me hungry.

#518 Desiderio

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 05:55 PM

in general terms, to improve the crumb, increase your hydration. If your refrigerating your dough prior to baking, increase your rise time after you form your boule.

i increased my rise time of 2 hours, and saw significant improvement in crumb.
i was limited in the amount of hydration i could deal with, as my dough became to runny for me to handle easily.

with the dutch oven technique, a wetter dough should be more managable.

that's a killer crust. it's making me hungry.

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Thank you so much, I will try with more water inthe dough, like you said I think in the dutch oven wouldnt be as much of a trouble to handle it, will report bak.
Thank you :smile:
Vanessa

#519 ElsieD

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 01:48 PM

I picked up malt powder at the bulk store.  I'm in Canada too.  I can send you some if you want.

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Thanks for your kind offer. I'm in Ottawa so I should be able to find it here. Which bulk food store did you get yours at? We have lots of Bulk Barns around here but there are also health food stores that carry bulk products so I'd have to be terribly unlucky not to find it. If that happens, I'll take you up on your offer. Oh, and is it the diastatic or non-diastatic one or does it make a difference? I just had a look at Harold McGhee's book "On Food and Cooking" to see what he had to say about this. He refers to "malt extract" and says that "it is used frequently in baking to provide maltose and glucose for yeast growth and moisture retention". He does not refer to either diastatic or non-diastatic, just "malt extract".

Elsie

Edited by ElsieD, 15 June 2009 - 01:49 PM.


#520 Kerry Beal

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 02:35 PM

I picked up malt powder at the bulk store.  I'm in Canada too.  I can send you some if you want.

View Post


Thanks for your kind offer. I'm in Ottawa so I should be able to find it here. Which bulk food store did you get yours at? We have lots of Bulk Barns around here but there are also health food stores that carry bulk products so I'd have to be terribly unlucky not to find it. If that happens, I'll take you up on your offer. Oh, and is it the diastatic or non-diastatic one or does it make a difference? I just had a look at Harold McGhee's book "On Food and Cooking" to see what he had to say about this. He refers to "malt extract" and says that "it is used frequently in baking to provide maltose and glucose for yeast growth and moisture retention". He does not refer to either diastatic or non-diastatic, just "malt extract".

Elsie

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Mine is the non-diastatic. I looked it up at the time and decided that's what I needed.

Got mine at Bulk Food Warehouse which is an independant.

#521 Heartsurgeon

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 08:27 AM

i have tried several different sources of "malt",including various beers (used in place of water), and even Malta (a malt beverage). while they all imparted that malty flavor, they also made the bread muddy in color (unappealing), and were more expensive than the malt powder.

in the end, i suppose any malt source is going to impart the desired taste. it then becomes a question of cost, stability of the product, and ease of use. In my experience, the powder wins.

#522 saluki

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 09:48 AM

i have tried several different sources of "malt",including various beers (used in place of water), and even Malta (a malt beverage). while they all imparted that malty flavor, they also made the bread muddy in color (unappealing), and were more expensive than the malt powder.

in the end, i suppose any malt source is going to impart the desired taste. it then becomes a question of cost, stability of the product, and ease of use. In my experience, the powder wins.

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Love your pics--They are really helpful. Wish I could be 1/10th as organized.....
From your pics, am I to understand that you are leaving the mini boules completely uncovered during the rising?

Regarding the diastatic malt, If you are so inclined you can make it.
link

#523 CanadianBakin'

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 01:53 PM

I don't think this has been mentioned yet but I've been grilling the basic boule recipe as flatbread on the barbeque. It's so nice to have fresh bread for supper without heating the house. I'll try to remember to take pictures next time I make it.
Don't wait for extraordinary opportunities. Seize common occasions and make them great. Orison Swett Marden

#524 saluki

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 02:24 PM

I don't think this has been mentioned yet but I've been grilling the basic boule recipe as flatbread on the barbeque. It's so nice to have fresh bread for supper without heating the house. I'll try to remember to take pictures next time I make it.

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I think Zoey's website also mentions the basic boule can also be used to make Naan in a cast iron pan with ghee--in fact they mention it is one of their quickest breads since no resting is required. ---Just gave away my cast iron but someone mentioned it also works well in Calphalons everyday pan so I may try that.

I want to try the Zaatar bread as well which also can use the basic boule dough. I have tons of Zaatar......Used to travel down to Bitar's bakery in Philly to get the bread and hoped they would not be sold out. Good eats.....That with some labneh and olives, nice breakfast.

#525 Heartsurgeon

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 03:26 PM

am I to understand that you are leaving the mini boules completely uncovered during the rising?


yes. i leave them uncovered on the tray for 2 hours.

interestingly, just prior to the mini-buns going onto the tray, they are rolled in flour (see pics)

after the 2 hour rise, a majority, if not all of the surface flour has been hydrated by the water content of the mini-buns (absorbed into the bun). The surface of the buns after two hours are not dried out in the least..in fact, the buns are fairly sticky, hence the technique of transfering them to the baking stone, minimal handling, just by the edges.

if you try to get a spatula beneath the entire bun, it's not going to slide off, it going to stick to the spatula. this stickiness is even a greater problem as the dough ages. at two weeks, the buns can stick to your fingers or the spatula like glue if your not careful. then you end up with funky shaped buns!

Edited by Heartsurgeon, 16 June 2009 - 03:26 PM.


#526 Rich In Bunly Goodness

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 04:27 PM

The way I typically do buns at home is to proof them on a silpat or parchment, then slide it onto an upside-down sheet pan, then slide the parchment or silpat with buns on top into the oven onto the stone. That way you can get them in a lot quicker than one at a time, which keeps the oven temps high, and you also don't need to use much if any flour or other substance to keep them from sticking.

#527 Heartsurgeon

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Posted 21 June 2009 - 02:35 PM

I going to try my standard formula with 50% semolina flour..i got a rather large sack of the semolina, and i need to use it up! Anyone have any experience with semolina based baked goods?

#528 Desiderio

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Posted 21 June 2009 - 07:20 PM

I got the book, I cant wait to try everything in it! But I really need to gear up my workout though!! :rolleyes:
Anyway I have been keeping the fist ( actually second ) dough I made and refreshing it everytime is getting low ( about one loaf left worth) the first time I refresh it I add the ingredients and only 6 gr of yeast, today I didnt add any yeast but just the ingredients and it raised like crazy!!! It smells wonderfully as well. I baked a loaf today and is crusty and light, I am keeping the dough wetter, I was reading that in high altitude the flour absorb more water, and I have noticed everytime I made bread but didnt know, I thought was just the flour, so using more liquid make more sense now.
Vanessa

#529 TitoM

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Posted 21 June 2009 - 08:21 PM

Wonderful book, it makes me want to continue learning more about baking "the old fashioned way". Here's my first loaf ever (have zero baking experience before this)--

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Edited by TitoM, 21 June 2009 - 08:21 PM.


#530 onehsancare

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 10:05 AM

I got malt powder at the home brewing supply store.
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#531 saluki

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 11:34 AM

I going to try my standard formula with 50% semolina flour..i got a rather large sack of the semolina, and i need to use it up! Anyone have any experience with semolina based baked goods?

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Check out the minimalist no knead thread. Abra has been experimenting with semolina to improve the texture of her loaf. I think she settled on using 20% semolina in her formula. One of the other posters commented that when he used 30% his loaf didn't rise as high but they were pleased with the flavor.
I've used Abra's proportions on occasion and enjoyed the results.

#532 Heartsurgeon

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 01:07 PM

i usually try several differetn percentages to find out how the ingredient effects the bread.

i'll definitely try 20%.

once i've run several different batches, i'll comment on the results.
i will check out Abra's posts, thanks.

#533 rickster

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 02:45 PM

My recollection is that there are different grinds of semolina, which may behave differently. I've made some loaves (not from this book) with 100% fine grind semolina and been very happy with the results.

#534 Heartsurgeon

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 08:15 PM

i think the semolina i have must be a fine grind. it's no different that wheat flour in texture.

#535 ElsieD

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 01:44 PM

I finally tracked down a source for malt powder. My problem now is, they have four kinds. They are light, wheat, amber and dark. Can anyone tell me which one I should get? It is available at a store that sells beer brewing supplies. TIA.

#536 Jmahl

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 07:52 AM

Just baked up a batch that has been in the frig for four weeks. It has been over 100 degrees here every day in Texas for weeks and I could not bring myself to turn on the oven until today. The dough looked a little funky but turned out fine. Enjoying a hot chunk broken off a corner of a loaf right now with home make grapefruit marmalade. Great stuff.
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#537 adiamant

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 01:23 PM

Just made my first batch, and baked my first boule ever last night after 24 hours in the fridge. It came out great - especially considering the minimal amount of effort required. I love it.

The bread was a little dense (which I like), probably due to only 40 mins rest time before baking it. It came out a bit salty too (I'm using the master formula and morton kosher salt). I will try to reduce the amount of salt a bit for next time, but there's still plenty of dough left.
I'm going to try for a larger loaf next time (tonight). This little one only kept till morning when the kids asked for it for their lunch sandwiches.

I wanted to bake bread for a while, but always figured it was more time and effort than I could spare. Using the book's method, it doesn't take much at all and the results are great. Thanks Zoe.

P.S. Sorry for no pictures, I was too excited by the bread to think about that, and it was gone by the time I did :)

Edited by adiamant, 22 July 2009 - 01:25 PM.


#538 adiamant

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 08:58 AM

Second bread baked yesterday, and came out beautiful. I used the rest of the dough, so had about a double size loaf (scale is on order, so don't have exact measurements yet). I left it to rest for 1 1/2 hours or so, and baked it for 35 minutes, removing the water after 13 minutes.
The crust came out a bit thicker and more crunchy than the first one, and the taste is better too (not as salty, surprisingly. Not sure why another day of fridge storage would change that, but my wife agreed with the observation too).

Mixed another batch, reducing the salt to 1 1/4 T, and swapping 1/2 a cup of AP flour for whole wheat and adding 1/4 cup of water to compensate. We'll see how that works.

I did remember to get some photos this time:
Crust...
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and crumb...
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A better view of the crumb
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Edited by adiamant, 23 July 2009 - 09:04 AM.


#539 foodie3

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 11:35 AM

i made the chocolate bread this morning, and, even though the taste is pleasing, i. e. intense chocolate flavor (used 72%), i am not entirely happy with the crumbly, slightly sticky texture of the baked loaf.
any comments as to what may have caused this to occur?

#540 Jmahl

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 04:26 PM

Second bread baked yesterday, and came out beautiful. I used the rest of the dough, so had about a double size loaf (scale is on order, so don't have exact measurements yet). I left it to rest for 1 1/2 hours or so, and baked it for 35 minutes, removing the water after 13 minutes.
The crust came out a bit thicker and more crunchy than the first one, and the taste is better too (not as salty, surprisingly. Not sure why another day of fridge storage would change that, but my wife agreed with the observation too).

Mixed another batch, reducing the salt to 1 1/4 T, and swapping 1/2 a cup of AP flour for whole wheat and adding 1/4 cup of water to compensate. We'll see how that works.

I did remember to get some photos this time:
Crust...
Posted Image

and crumb...
Posted Image

A better view of the crumb
Posted Image

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Beautiful. Looks like we have another convert.

Jmahl
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