Jump to content


Welcome to the eG Forums!

These forums are a service of the Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, a 501c3 nonprofit organization dedicated to advancement of the culinary arts. Anyone can read the forums, however if you would like to participate in active discussions please join the Society.

Photo

hum sui gok/hom sui gok

Chinese

  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

#1 prasantrin

prasantrin
  • legacy participant
  • 5,468 posts

Posted 29 November 2007 - 10:01 PM

I want hum sui gok, especially after Ah Leung was kind enough to eat some and post a picture of it in his HK homecoming topic. My mother will be visiting me shortly, and since we're already doing char sui bao and either joong or nor mai gai, I figure we may as well do hum sui gok, too!

But how do I make it--the dough part, in particular? I have a recipe from Eileen Yin-Fei Lo and it calls for glutinous rice flour mixed with cold water, salt, lard, and wheat starch mixed with boiling water. Does that sound like a typical recipe?

Also, my mother went to a Chinese/Vietnamese grocery store, and they sold her what they think should be used to make the dough. (I had asked specifically for wheat starch, but I don't think they knew what it was.) If by chance they sold her some glutinous rice flour (which I already have), can I make the dough just with glutinous rice flour?

I noticed that the recipe I have doesn't call for sugar, but the ones I've had at dim sum taste a wee bit sweet to me. Can I add sugar, or would that be a bad idea?

Finally, do you freeze them before or after cooking them?

Any help would be much appreciated! I'm really looking forward to our dim sum extravaganza!

#2 sheetz

sheetz
  • participating member
  • 824 posts

Posted 30 November 2007 - 04:04 AM

These are one of the dim sum that I haven't mastered yet, primarily because they're not my absolute favorites--I can take them or leave them. Based on my few attempts at making them I think your recipe sounds ok. You do need to have wheat starch in the dough to make the dough firm up, however. Without it the dough becomes too elastic and will burst while frying.

I'm not sure about the sugar, but I think if you were to add some you might have to reduce the wheat starch. (Sugar also helps keep the dough from bursting.)

#3 junehl

junehl
  • participating member
  • 122 posts

Posted 30 November 2007 - 06:17 AM

When Ah Leung posted the pictures of the hom sui gok. I thought it seemed a bit weird because I had never had a hom sui gok fried! It was always just steamed. Am I eating something else?

Assuming we're talking about the same thing, I've never seen my granny use sugar in the dough. And they always cooked it before freezing.

#4 Ben Hong

Ben Hong
  • participating member
  • 1,383 posts

Posted 30 November 2007 - 07:36 AM

Hom sui gok is always fried and it is always made with glutinous rice flour...where I eat.

#5 hzrt8w

hzrt8w
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 3,855 posts
  • Location:Sacramento, CA

Posted 30 November 2007 - 08:30 AM

When Ah Leung posted the pictures of the hom sui gok.  I thought it seemed a bit weird because I had never had a hom sui gok fried!  It was always just steamed.  Am I eating something else?

View Post

"Hom Sui Gok" sold in Hong Kong, as well as all the Chinese restaurants I have been to in the USA are deep-fried. Perhaps you were eating something else and they mislabelled it as Hom Sui Gok?
W.K. Leung ("Ah Leung") aka "hzrt8w"

#6 sheetz

sheetz
  • participating member
  • 824 posts

Posted 30 November 2007 - 10:31 AM

Are all "gok" dishes either fried or baked? The most common "gok" are hom sui gok, ga lei (curry) gok, and woo gok. Is there such thing as a steamed "gok"?

#7 junehl

junehl
  • participating member
  • 122 posts

Posted 30 November 2007 - 10:49 AM

Hmmm, I'll be home soon, I think i may get my granny's recipe, and make some, so I can take pictures of what we used to eat.

Maybe, I've been calling it the wrong thing.

#8 junehl

junehl
  • participating member
  • 122 posts

Posted 30 November 2007 - 11:32 AM

Doh, just called granny and she said what I'm talking about is "bak sui gok". It's made w/ har gow dough and steamed.

She then put the nail in the coffin and said hom sui gok was fried...

#9 prasantrin

prasantrin
  • legacy participant
  • 5,468 posts

Posted 30 November 2007 - 03:53 PM

These are one of the dim sum that I haven't mastered yet, primarily because they're not my absolute favorites--I can take them or leave them.


Bite your tongue! They are always must-haves at any dim sum place I go to. But then, I have a thing for fried food... :biggrin:

Based on my few attempts at making them I think your recipe sounds ok. You do need to have wheat starch in the dough to make the dough firm up, however. Without it the dough becomes too elastic and will burst while frying.

I'm not sure about the sugar, but I think if you were to add some you might have to reduce the wheat starch. (Sugar also helps keep the dough from bursting.)

View Post


I talked to my mother last night, and she said the store sold her both glutinous rice flour and another kind of flour that is usually used for har gau wrappers, so I think it must be wheat starch.

I kind of like the idea of burst dough, though. Then the edges of the burst part get all crispy. Mmmmmmm :wub:

I'll skip on the sugar this time. I hope it turns out well! I can already taste them, and if the real flavour doesn't match what I have in my mind, I'll be very disappointed!

#10 prasantrin

prasantrin
  • legacy participant
  • 5,468 posts

Posted 30 November 2007 - 03:56 PM

Doh, just called granny and she said what I'm talking about is "bak sui gok".  It's made w/ har gow dough and steamed.

She then put the nail in the coffin and said hom sui gok was fried...

View Post


Are the innards of bak sui gok the same as for hum sui gok?

I was thinking of using some of the leftover filling (I haven't made it, yet, but I always end up with leftover filling) in some steamed bao, but since we were going to try making har gau, anyway, maybe we can use the extra filling with some har gau wrappers.

In Winnipeg, by the way, potstickers are called "pan fried perogy" and ham sui gok are "deep fried perogy". Kind of lets you know the demographics of the area! :laugh:

#11 Dejah

Dejah
  • participating member
  • 3,326 posts
  • Location:Brandon, Manitoba

Posted 01 December 2007 - 03:29 PM

I was thinking of using some of the leftover filling (I haven't made it, yet, but I always end up with leftover filling) in some steamed bao, but since we were going to try making har gau, anyway, maybe we can use the extra filling with some har gau wrappers. 
In Winnipeg, by the way, potstickers are called "pan fried perogy" and ham sui gok are "deep fried perogy".  Kind of lets you know the demographics of the area! :laugh:

View Post


If you use the leftover filling in har gow wrappers, then they are called fan suor in Toisanese.


The store probably did sell your Mom wheat starch as that is the kind for har gow.

If you like your hom sui gok to burst, you'd better wear a face shield and cover your arms. They can really explode on you!
Dejah
www.hillmanweb.com

#12 prasantrin

prasantrin
  • legacy participant
  • 5,468 posts

Posted 01 December 2007 - 11:10 PM

If you use the leftover filling in har gow wrappers, then they are called fan suor in Toisanese.


The store probably did sell your Mom wheat starch as that is the kind for har gow.


You mean I didn't invent my own dim sum item? And I thought i was being so creative!

Good to know about the wheat starch. I was really worried that my hum sui gok was going to suck!

If you like your hom sui gok to burst, you'd better wear a face shield and cover your arms. They can really explode on you!

View Post


:unsure: Maybe I'll just fry some thinly rolled pieces of the dough, then. It takes forever for burns on my skin to heal! It's my delicate Asian skin, doncha know!

#13 hzrt8w

hzrt8w
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 3,855 posts
  • Location:Sacramento, CA

Posted 10 December 2007 - 11:28 PM

How is that "ham sui gok" experiment coming along? :biggrin:

One thing that I kind of wondered is: in "ham sui gok", as in "geen dui" (deep-fried glutinous rice flour dough with sweet (red bean paste) filling), how do they create the hollowness in the "gok"? When you wrap the "gok", isn't it flat? What's the trick to get the air bubble in? Or the thing would just automatically inflate when you deep-fry it?
W.K. Leung ("Ah Leung") aka "hzrt8w"

#14 sheetz

sheetz
  • participating member
  • 824 posts

Posted 11 December 2007 - 02:34 AM

One thing that I kind of wondered is:  in "ham sui gok", as in "geen dui" (deep-fried glutinous rice flour dough with sweet (red bean paste) filling), how do they create the hollowness in the "gok"?  When you wrap the "gok", isn't it flat?  What's the trick to get the air bubble in?  Or the thing would just automatically inflate when you deep-fry it?

View Post


While they are frying you press them firmly against the side or bottom of the pan so that the dough stretches a little. As you do that the built up steam pressure inside will push against the dough and make them expand. But you only need to do that with geen dui, not hom sui gok.

#15 CFT

CFT
  • participating member
  • 162 posts
  • Location:UK

Posted 11 December 2007 - 03:39 AM

How is that "ham sui gok" experiment coming along?    :biggrin:

One thing that I kind of wondered is:  in "ham sui gok", as in "geen dui" (deep-fried glutinous rice flour dough with sweet (red bean paste) filling), how do they create the hollowness in the "gok"?  When you wrap the "gok", isn't it flat?  What's the trick to get the air bubble in?  Or the thing would just automatically inflate when you deep-fry it?

My understanding is that it is a bit like making a clay pot. You are thinning and bringing the dough together to make a "balloon". The trick is how to close it off - I guess you need to have just enough dough at the "neck" to pinch it closed.
Best Wishes,
Chee Fai.

#16 prasantrin

prasantrin
  • legacy participant
  • 5,468 posts

Posted 11 December 2007 - 05:35 AM

How is that "ham sui gok" experiment coming along?    :biggrin:


I think Thursday is the big dim sum extravaganza day, if all goes as planned (it's a "home study day" for students, which usually means I can do my marking or other work at home). There have already been a couple of hiccups in my dim sum plan, but I'm going to do my best!

The nor mai gai might have to wait for another day, though. I think I'll just do char sui bao, hum sui gok, and maybe har gau for Wednesday.

One thing that I kind of wondered is:  in "ham sui gok", as in "geen dui" (deep-fried glutinous rice flour dough with sweet (red bean paste) filling), how do they create the hollowness in the "gok"?  When you wrap the "gok", isn't it flat?  What's the trick to get the air bubble in?  Or the thing would just automatically inflate when you deep-fry it?

View Post


I'm definitely the wrong person to ask, but I'll let you know what happens!

#17 Dejah

Dejah
  • participating member
  • 3,326 posts
  • Location:Brandon, Manitoba

Posted 11 December 2007 - 08:26 AM


One thing that I kind of wondered is:  in "ham sui gok", as in "geen dui" (deep-fried glutinous rice flour dough with sweet (red bean paste) filling), how do they create the hollowness in the "gok"?  When you wrap the "gok", isn't it flat?  What's the trick to get the air bubble in?  Or the thing would just automatically inflate when you deep-fry it?

My understanding is that it is a bit like making a clay pot. You are thinning and bringing the dough together to make a "balloon". The trick is how to close it off - I guess you need to have just enough dough at the "neck" to pinch it closed.

View Post

My Mom used to blow air into a completed geen dui, twist and seal the neck then deep fry - in the method described by sheets:

While they are frying you press them firmly against the side or bottom of the pan so that the dough stretches a little. As you do that the built up steam pressure inside will push against the dough and make them expand. But you only need to do that with geen dui, not hom sui gok.


She stopped blowing air in as she got older. Funny how she thought that as she got older, she may have some dreadful germs in her breath! :blink:

It all depends on the flour used. The ones my mom makes for Chinese New Year "bai sun" deflates after a day or two. That may be because the walls are thin. Other ones, maybe called something different, are crispy. The store-bought ones last year were hard as rock! The only one who ate them - without permission - was our dog!

:hmmm: Wait...My Mom called them "chung tay":

http://www.hillmanwe...s/seedball.html
Dejah
www.hillmanweb.com

#18 sheetz

sheetz
  • participating member
  • 824 posts

Posted 11 December 2007 - 10:56 AM

The store-bought ones last year were hard as rock! The only one who ate them - without permission - was our dog!

View Post



They'll be harder and hold their shape better if you mix some wheat starch in with the glutinous rice flour. Personally, I like the soft chewy ones made with only glutinous rice flour, especially when they're hot.

#19 prasantrin

prasantrin
  • legacy participant
  • 5,468 posts

Posted 13 December 2007 - 02:56 AM

Well, the day has almost come and gone. I still haven't done any of my marking, but I have made my hum sui gok! The good thing is...I survived. The bad thing is...I probably won't be doing this again. I now understand why not all Chinese restaurants do dim sum--it's a heck of a lot of work!

As for my hsg, the filling is OK, but not really what I like. It's a lot drier than the type I've had at dim sum places. Also, the casing is quite flavourless--I like it to be a bit sweeter.

And for the record, splatter guards don't actually prevent oil from splattering up, they just lessen the amount of hot oil to scald your skin!

ETA: pics will be up tomorrow or perhaps next week if I forget to bring my camera to work.

Edited by prasantrin, 13 December 2007 - 02:58 AM.


#20 Tepee

Tepee
  • participating member
  • 1,804 posts

Posted 14 December 2007 - 09:04 AM

Yay! You did it! Pix! Pix! I do subscribe to trying to make something I like at least once. Trick is finding the time. OK....let's do the XLB next.
TPcal!
Food Pix (plus others)

Please take pictures of all the food you get to try (and if you can, the food at the next tables)............................Dejah

#21 prasantrin

prasantrin
  • legacy participant
  • 5,468 posts

Posted 14 December 2007 - 09:55 PM

I hope y'all aren't too disappointed with my efforts, but here are the pictures!

First, when I made the dough I had no idea what to expect. I mixed the glutinous rice flour with cold water, and the wheat starch with boiling water, then added lard and something else but I can't remember what. When it first came together, I was pretty worried. I didn't think it would ever become one mass. Plus I had to do all the mixing and kneading by hand, since I don't have a stand mixer. But I managed, and it looked OK (as far as I knew, since I didn't know what it was supposed to look like!).

As for the filling, I thought it would be a wee bit saucier. And clearly, I didn't take the time to mince the shrimp into smaller pieces, nor did I take the time to break up the ground pork as it cooked. This would come back to haunt me later.

Posted Image

Next, I quartered the dough, then rolled out the first quarter into a 14-inch rope. I cut it into 14 pieces, and rolled the first piece out. I rolled beautifully, but when I started to fill it, that was where things started to fall apart--literally. I didn't expect the dough to be so delicate, but my largish pieces of shrimp and pork didn't help any. They poked holes through the dough. This made me very afraid, because I remembered Dejah's warnings about them breaking apart and hot oil splashing around. So I ended up making 11 or 12 pieces from those 14 pieces, and then used the remaining pieces to patch up the holes in the ones I was able to make.

Posted Image

Then came the frying. The recipe said to heat the oil to 325-350F. I used 170C, but for some reason, my oil kept wanting to climb higher--about 190C. I put the hum sui gok in, but the temperature didn't lower much, so I turned down the stove. The heat seemed to be quite low, but the temp. was 170-175C, which I figured was OK. But then the remaining hum sui gok just wouldn't brown. The dough cooked through, but remained pale. Also, some of my thin ones broke and caused quite a bit of oil to splatter. Luckily I used a splatter guard, because if I hadn't my apartment floor, walls, and kitchen counter would be covered in oil. This is one of my better-looking ones. Some of the ones I had patched up looked like they had tumours!

Posted Image

The innards were sparse (couldn't use too much filling or the casing would break), and that first night, I thought my hum sui gok kind of sucked. I had definitely had better, but hey, it was my first try! My mother said the filling was good, but the casing wasn't very flavourful.

Posted Image

The next day, I tried one cold. It wasn't crispy, of course, but it sure did taste better! So I helped myself to a few more... :biggrin:

I ended up making fewer than the 48 the recipe claims to make, because I wanted to make my casing thicker to prevent breakage. I think I only got about 30 or 35 pieces out of it. I now have 20 left (I guess I decided I really liked them :raz: ), so I'll freeze them, then pan fry them to recrisp and hopefully brown them.

I think I just might make these again, when I have a lot of time on my hands. I do like them a lot more now than when I first made them. I think next time, I'll make the filling the day before to give the flavours time to meld.

Thanks for all the help and encouragement!

(I did finish all my marking and my grades, so now I just have to finish making my char siu bao!)

#22 rarerollingobject

rarerollingobject
  • participating member
  • 777 posts
  • Location:Sydney, Australia.

Posted 14 December 2007 - 11:38 PM

Wow..they look great....am full of admiration over here!

#23 sheetz

sheetz
  • participating member
  • 824 posts

Posted 15 December 2007 - 02:17 PM

Hey, not bad for a first effort! I've come across some hom sui gok that were pale like yours before, so it's just the style of the recipe. Adding sugar would make them brown like the ones you get at dim sum restaurants. It's also common to add some mashed sweet potatoes to the dough, although that's more homestyle than restaurant style.

#24 Dejah

Dejah
  • participating member
  • 3,326 posts
  • Location:Brandon, Manitoba

Posted 15 December 2007 - 06:35 PM

I can't remember who sent me the recipe for hom siu gok - someone here, and the recipe had mashed cooked yam in the dough - 6 oz. of yams to 1 lb of glutinous flour.
For sweet version, the recipe called for Chinese brown sugar.

Can someone please chime up if you sent me the recipe?

Glad you made the baos and hom siu gok, Rona. :biggrin: Joongzi next?
Dejah
www.hillmanweb.com

#25 prasantrin

prasantrin
  • legacy participant
  • 5,468 posts

Posted 16 December 2007 - 04:35 AM

How much sugar would I have to add to the dough to make it a touch sweet, but not too sweet? My recipe uses 2cups gl. rice flour+7oz cold water, 3/4c wheat starch+7oz boiling water, 1/2 t salt and 4T lard. Would I have to cut down on any of the ingredients or add anything else if I add sugar? Could I just add white sugar, or does it have to be Chinese brown sugar? I have white sugar, brown sugar (light and dark), and palm sugar, and I have access to demerera and muscovado, so I could use any of those.

I can't really add yam or sweet potatoes, I think, because Japanese sweet potatoes are so different. And my mother forgot to bring the sweet potato I had asked her to sneak into the country. :sad:

And thanks for the kind comments about my hum sui gok...it almost makes me want to try again to improve on my first attempt!

#26 Tepee

Tepee
  • participating member
  • 1,804 posts

Posted 17 December 2007 - 10:25 PM

Go for it!
TPcal!
Food Pix (plus others)

Please take pictures of all the food you get to try (and if you can, the food at the next tables)............................Dejah

#27 Gastro888

Gastro888
  • participating member
  • 1,339 posts

Posted 21 January 2008 - 09:33 AM

OK, so I'm still after my mother for the recipe. She will gladly make it for me but will not wait until I'm home to go through each step of the recipe. Oh boy.

Anyways, in regards to the dough, she usues the ngoh mai foon (glutonous rice flour), a bit of cake flour and a bit of instant mashed potato flakes. Weird but oh so tasty. If you don't add the last two flours, it will not be golden.

Also, she doesn't use sugar in the dough. Every time I taste one that has sugar in the dough, it doesn't taste right to me.

Mom also said that fresh water chestnuts are key to this dish. Otherwise, there won't be that textural crunch. The filling needs to be well seasoned but DRY. Don't make a soupy filling. Mom usually does:

Shiitake mushrooms
Dried Shrimp
Preserved turnips
Scallions
Cilantro
Pork

They're all finely minced and seasoned with soy sauce, cooking wine and a bit of sesame oil.

When I get more information, I'll pass it on. Then again, I said this a few years back and I STILL haven't gotten a complete recipe. I know, I suck, I know...sorry!!!





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Chinese