115 replies to this topic

[agnolottigirl]

Ok--in case anyone else is interested, I found a few recipes (one w/ tropical fruit and one w/ strawberries) on epicurious. Am guessing the buttermilk just makes things tangy. . . it appears that you do not substitute buttermilk for cream after all.

[Michael Laiskonis]

Try substituting half of your cream with buttermilk. It will add that acidity and make your panna cotta lighter, but because the buttermilk has a thick viscosity like that of cream, you should still be able to acheive that rich texture.

A word on using tropical fruits... in their raw state, some fruits contain an enzyme that will slowly break down- or inhibit altogether- the proteins in your gelatin. Mango, papaya, kiwi, pineapple are but a few examples. A very gentle cooking will generally destroy the enzyme...

[agnolottigirl]

Thanks, Michael. . .there is no way I'd ever have guessed that. I would have just wondered why I ended up with a soupy mess!

[cjsadler]

There was one in Saveur a few months ago (sometime in the fall), as part of a story on milk in the kitchen, which was originally from the Gramercy Tavern. Try their website. I was going to pit this against a regular panna cotta to see which one I liked best for an upcoming dinner.

[alanamoana]

just a note, the claudia fleming panna cotta is great, but it isn't one which can stand alone (meaning unmolded)...it is not set with much gelatin so it should be served in a container.

[KarenS]

Chill your mixture over ice (stirring frequently), until it is thickened enough to weight down your berries. Put the berries in your molds and pour.

[Wendy DeBord]

I haven't tried Flemmings recipe yet, but I use Martha's regularly and reccomend it. It's probably posted on her site.

[ComeUndone]

I really want to make a dessert that showcases the velvety smoothness of milk chocolate. Bounced around a few media including mousse, parfait, pots de creme but I'm thinking perhaps a panna cotta might be a refreshing idea. However, I'm stuck in terms of how to incorporate milk chocolate into panna cotta. If I understand correctly, in order to impart enough chocolaty flavour, the amount of chocolate added to the mixture will harden up the panna cotta for sure. Is adding cocoa my only option?

Thanks in advance.

[Ganache8]

I think you're good to go. I've used a panna cotta recipe from the Grand Finales book with good success but used dark chocolate & cocoa powder. I was worried as you were about the chocolate flavour coming through. Biggest problem was cocoa powder settling on bottom of mold as little specks. You can decrease the amount of gelatin to counteract the firming qualities of chocolate--good experimenting!

[nightscotsman]

I think it sounds fine, but aren't we basically talking about chocolate pudding here? Not that there's anything wrong with that.

As you mentioned, the chocolate will make the finished product thicker, so you might want to play with reducing the amount of gelatine. In fact, since the base of panna cotta is milk/cream you might be able to use a smaller amount of dark chocolate instead of milk chocolate and achieve a milk chocolate flavor. Another idea (that may sound out of left field, or even icky to some people) is to use a bit of evaporated milk to give the mix a bit of that caramelized/cooked milk flavor that some milk chocolates feature.

[McDuff]

Try steeping cocoa nibs in the mix. I make a range of chocolate things from cocoa nib panna cotta, to milk chocolate pot de creme, to double chocolate pudding. Every color of the chocolate rainbow.

[Lesley C]

Good idea. Sounds nice. I say, go for it.
Go easy on the milk chocolate and maybe serve it with a bitter chocolate sauce. It will taste like jellied chocolate milk -- a bit like what Frederic Bau recently served at his chocolate tasting menu dinner in Montreal and New York (though he used agar agar and the consistency was crumbly instead of melting -- rather gross).

[chocophile]

I have to agree with Lesley about the texture of Bau's "trio of chocolate gelees" it was awful. I was at the dinner at the Mark Hotel here in NYC a couple of days later, so it's interesting to hear that it was deliberate, not an accident. (I did not really want to believe that that texture was what he was looking for.)

CU: There's a restaurant here in NYC called Supper that does a hazelnut panna cotta but they way they serve it is tres cool. The waiter comes by with a copper pot of chocolate sauce and basically asks you to "say when" when enough sauce has been poured. Not exactly what you' asked about, I know, but the presentation is very unusual and will get a lot of notice.

I also second McDuff's recommendation to steep nibs in the milk/cream. You can change the flavor by varying the amount of time and/or quantity of nibs used and it won't affect the texture of the finished product; just strain through cheesecloth to catch all the little bits.

McD: I use this technique to make many things, and so I am looking for something to do with the nibs after. They are very soft, and I wonder if there's some way to grind them into a paste and use them in a filling between layers of something. Do you do anything other than just toss them?

:Clay

[ComeUndone]

Thank you for all of your wonderful feedback. Since I can't get my hands on some cocoa nibs yet, I'll try a different approach tonight.

I was reading Claudia Fleming's book last night and thought the flavouring used in her milk chocolate malted ice-cream may work for a panna cotta. The flavouring will be 3:1 ratio of milk chocolate to dark chocolate + enough malted to my liking. I'll report back later with my finding.

[tan319]

There's a recipe for chocolate panna cotta at Partistry.com, Jehengir Metha's site, that's pretty good, I adapted it a bit and used milk chocolate for a panna cotta I put on a chocolate tasting plate I was doing.
I played around with the amount of gelatine I used too.
I wouldn't use cocoa for it.
I infused mine with lemon zest also,it's a surprisingly good combo, IMO.
Orange would go good with milk chocolate also.
Good luck!
P.S.: word of advice.
Let your mix cool down in an ice water bath just until room temp before pouring into molds, giving it a stir every once in awhile.
And make sure you cover well, you'll get a skin, otherwise.

[ComeUndone]

Just a few notes on some of my findings:

Recipe 1 [based on chocolate panna cotta on Partistry.com]
- I used too little gelatine (6g powder). The end product was still pourable after 2 days in the fridge. I thought 4 sheets of gelatine is equivalent to 11g powder gelatine but apparently, more is required in this recipe
- mixture was only flavoured with milk chocolate (I used Lindt Excellence with 30% cocoa 20% milk solid). Yes, it's rich and creamy but reminds me too much of chocolate milk. Expensive chocolate milk.

Recipe 2 [malted chocolate panna cotta]
- 375mL 35% cream, 125mL whole milk, 6g powder gelatine, 60g granulated sugar, 0.5oz dark chocolate (Lindt Excellence 85%), 1.5oz milk chocolate (Lindt Excellence), 65g malted (i.e. Classic Ovaltine)
- sets to good texture but can be a bit softer
- love the flavour! Perhaps I'm biased because Ovaltine is one of my all time favourite drink. However, the milk chocolate flavour is only a supporting role. It's malted all the way.


I think instead of making a panna cotta, I'll use the second recipe as a filling for a tart in my chocolate tasting plate. Hopefully I'll have some pictures tomorrow.

[FistFullaRoux]

Recipe 2 [malted chocolate panna cotta]
- 375mL 35% cream, 125mL whole milk, 6g powder gelatine, 60g granulated sugar, 0.5oz dark chocolate (Lindt Excellence 85%), 1.5oz milk chocolate (Lindt Excellence), 65g malted (i.e. Classic Ovaltine)
- sets to good texture but can be a bit softer
- love the flavour! Perhaps I'm biased because Ovaltine is one of my all time favourite drink. However, the milk chocolate flavour is only a supporting role. It's malted all the way.


I think instead of making a panna cotta, I'll use the second recipe as a filling for a tart in my chocolate tasting plate. Hopefully I'll have some pictures tomorrow.

That sounds incredible. I read this and my mouth started watering.

[duckduck]

I like the idea of using the cocoa nibs. That sounds great. Makin' me hungry! Mmmm...chocolate...breakfast of champions!

[tan319]

Just a few notes on some of my findings:

Recipe 1 [based on chocolate panna cotta on Partistry.com]
- I used too little gelatine (6g powder). The end product was still pourable after 2 days in the fridge. I thought 4 sheets of gelatine is equivalent to 11g powder gelatine but apparently, more is required in this recipe
- mixture was only flavoured with milk chocolate (I used Lindt Excellence with 30% cocoa 20% milk solid). Yes, it's rich and creamy but reminds me too much of chocolate milk. Expensive chocolate milk.

Recipe 2 [malted chocolate panna cotta]
- 375mL 35% cream, 125mL whole milk, 6g powder gelatine, 60g granulated sugar, 0.5oz dark chocolate (Lindt Excellence 85%), 1.5oz milk chocolate (Lindt Excellence), 65g malted (i.e. Classic Ovaltine)
- sets to good texture but can be a bit softer
- love the flavour! Perhaps I'm biased because Ovaltine is one of my all time favourite drink. However, the milk chocolate flavour is only a supporting role. It's malted all the way.


I think instead of making a panna cotta, I'll use the second recipe as a filling for a tart in my chocolate tasting plate. Hopefully I'll have some pictures tomorrow.

I don't know too much about Lindt but would think it's more of an eating chocolate then a cooking one.
I'll check my notes and see if I adjusted choc quanity.
I thought you were using sheet gel.
Did you weigh your powder and bloom it well?
Didn't leave it in the melting pan?
Powders tricky.

[Lesley C]

ComeUndone, each sheet of gelatin is 2g, so you had only 8g, as opposed to 11g in your recipe.

[ComeUndone]

Thanks Lesley for the gelatin conversion. In the Gordon Ramsay Just Dessert book, he assumed 4 sheets=11g so this is what I assumed too. I suppose there is probably difference in gelatine standards between North America and UK.

Ted, I used powdered gelatine because I did not have any leaf gelatine on hand. However, I did weight, bloom, and scrape every last bit so I don't think that's the reason the end product did not set properly. I think I'll give the recipe another try with leaf gelatine.

Here is a picture of what I ended up doing for the chocolate tasting plate.



From left to right:
1. white chocolate espresso mousse tart
2. cold hot chocolate
3. malted milk chocolate tart

This is the first time that I design a tasting plate. I try to play around with using white, dark, and milk chocolate for each component. Having two tarts is probably not the best idea of providing textural contrast. However, I really like the white-on-black versus the black-on-white visual contrast. Given a number of restrictions including limited access to fridge, no freezer (i.e. no ice-cream), no oven/stove, and sturdy enough to withstand travelling (I have to deliver the components and assemble on-site), I am really proud of my first attempt.

To be honest, I enjoyed this whole creation process very very much. It's fascinating how I started off with one idea and evolved to another.

[speidec]

Can any of the pastry genuis' assembled here offer advice or a recipe for a yogurt panna cotta? I am using 32oz of yogurt, 2c mascarpone, 2c creme fraiche, and 1.5c sugar and 10 gelatine sheets, plus a vanilla bean and some coffee beans for flavor. I kind of made this up and I am not a pastry cook so I know there are 'issues' with the recipe. It generally tastes fine, but grainy, and I set it up on a half sheet pan atop pate brisse. When we serve it, we cut a square and top it with native strawberries and rhubarb sorbet. I just want the panna cotta to taste richer, stay firm enough to cut, but not rubbery, and eleminate the graininess. Any advice?

[origamicrane]

i think its the yogurt thats causes the graininess
try reducing the yogurt, increase the mascapone and use a few more vanilla beans

[Wendy DeBord]

Any advice?

I think you're always bound to have more success if you begin with a solid recipe and experiment out from that. Thats one of the differences in how pastry people think verses cooking people.

What are you doing with your coffee beans? How are you introducing them....ground......infused into what, how? Do you have silver or gold gelatin sheets?

I don't have a recipe floating in the top of my head.........I'd need to look thru a couple books to offer up one. If you can explain more about what you want that would help me help you. Is this a coffee flavored yogurt panna cotta?

[Bond Girl]

I strained my Panna Cotta mixture through a fine sieve whenever I need to make it for company. The seeds in the Vanilla beans tend to make it grainy.

[speidec]

Good point with the recipe idea, I am actually going on the bisis of 1 sheet of gelatine per cup of liquid. The coffe beans are left whole and help accent the flavor of the vanilla. We do the same with our creme brulee and the result is a furthur richness of vanilla flavor. We are only talking ten to twenty beans. I am wondering if the yogurt is separating when I heat the mixture up in order to a. melt the sugar and b. melt the gelatine. If anyone has a great recipe I'd love to see it. I've had real pastry chefs' panna cotta before and it was perfect, almost custard like and full of flavor.

[tan319]

I think the mascarpone is what is making it grainy.
That stuff is very tempermental.
I had some break on me the other day when I was making my dulce de leche mascarpone cakes, something that never happens to me.
Had to stick blend it back to emulsify.
You have a LOT of solid-ish type of ingredients there.
That's going to mess with that ethereal type of quivery panna cotta we all know and love.
Which I think liquids typically lend to it.
My reciope is generally...
For around 18 4 oz. servings:
Quart of milk or half and half (my pref)
5 to 5 and a half cups of heavy cream.
8 oz. sugar
flavoring.
oh, and about 8 to 9 leafs of silver gel bloomed.
If you're using that Glidden stuff, that really dark german gel, maybe back it down to 8?
And be careful how much you use anyways, considering that yogurt and cheese(especially mascarpone?) have gums/stabilizers of sorts in them oftentimes.
And if you're looking for that tang from the yogurt, would the creme fraiche supply enough of that?
So, adjustments would probably have to be made considering all of that heavy stuff.
One thing I'm wondering....
What if you tried, just for the sport, a neutral flavored type of those liquid yogurts, if they make them, like Nourishe(SP?) by Yoplait?
Could be interesting.
That panna cotta recipe above has never let me down.
Good Luck to you!

[Wendy DeBord]

You have a LOT of solid-ish type of ingredients there.
That's going to mess with that ethereal type of quivery panna cotta we all know and love.
Which I think liquids typically lend to it.

Thats was my first gut reaction too. I think I'd elimate using the marscarpone. 3 dairy bases seems like over kill.

I briefly looked thru a couple books for you yesterday and this is what I came up with, where I'd start. I haven't made either of these recipes but I think the source is extremely reliable, they come from Claudia Flemings book The Last Course, the desserts of gramercy tavern.

Buttermilk Panna Cotta

In a small bowl combine:

1 1/2 tsp. gelatin
1 tbsp. h20

Let soften. In a pot warm:

1 1/4 c. heavy cream
7 tbsp. sugar

When the sugar has dissolved add the softened gelatin, stir until it dissolves. Then add:

1 3/4 c. buttermilk

Strain and chill to set.


This is her creme fraiche panna cotta:

1 tsp. gelatine
1 1/2 tbsp. water to bloom

2 c. heavy cream
1 1/2 c. creme fraiche
1/3 c. sugar


I think either recipe should be lovely. The only other thing that worries me is that you pour this on your base, then chill and cut. I'm having a hard time invisioning the panna cotta being stable enough to cut it cleanly.....as least the recipes I've used in the past. I think your probably going to need to increase the gelatin for this to cut well.

Do you make this fresh everyday so your brisse doesn't get soggie?

[speidec]

Wendy and Ted, thank you both for the technical insight. I've looked at different recipes and tried to work them into what we need, but I have never had anyone give me the pastry chef's trained wisdom. Or maybe someone did once and I wasn't paying attention in school.... I will try all these techniques. Two things, the brisse doesn't get very soggy, in my opinion, you may think it was though. And I use the gold leaf gelatine which I am realizing is not good. Where can I find the silver? Again thanks for the advice. We really need a professional pastry chef! By the way, Ted, how's the 'paper' work going?

[duckduck]

I had a fennel panna cotta recently that was to die for. Anybody seen a recipe? I've been meaning to try Claudia Fleming's panna cottas. They sound great. And as a funky side note, don't ever bother with Alton Brown's panna cotta brain recipe. It has way too much gelatin in it. Total rubber.